Episode 402: Redefining Happiness through Intentional and Sustainable Spending with Kara Perez

Kara Perez 0:00

You can always be thinner, you can always be hotter, you can always be richer, and so if you never reach a point of satisfaction, You're never satisfied. So I think a lot of people the first step when we talk about values based budgeting, they hear deprivation. You have to stop buying things that make you happy. But really what we're saying is, does buying things all the time make you happy? Just think about it for a second.

Jamila Souffrant 0:26

Welcome to the journey to launch podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant as a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in 54321,

if you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode, in the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned, and so much more. Also, whether you are an OG journeyer or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jump start guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes to listen to stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources and so much more. You can go to journey to launch.com/jump start to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode. Hey, hey, hey, journeyers, welcome to the journey to launch podcast. I have a guest that I haven't seen or spoken to in a little bit, so I'm excited to have her on the podcast. She was on episode 49 of the podcast, and that is Kara Perez. Let me tell you a little bit about Kara. Kara is the founder of bravely go, a sustainability focused financial education company. Bravely focuses on bringing actionable, intersectional and accessible financial education to people who never learned the language of money. She's the author of the brand new book green money, which is out now, should be out now by the time this episode airs. Cara has been featured in New York Times, Good Morning America, Forbes, NPR, glamor, ABC, you name it, basically everywhere. And additionally, for two years, she's hosted the award winning podcast the fairer sense which I had the honor to be the guest on, and she has been named just a top money expert and space and voice in this community. She again, I mentioned she was on episode 49 of the podcast, so that was way back in the beginning, but I'm happy to have you back on. So welcome to the show.

Kara Perez 2:41

Thank you for having me back. And hello, journeyers, hello,

Jamila Souffrant 2:46

so much has happened since you've been on the podcast and shared you had a debt payoff story and starting bravely go. And a lot has happened since then, obviously. And so I want to kind of just touch upon your background, because I always find that, you know, you can definitely go listen to episode 49 the original episode, if you want to hear more details. But I think just a quick background into how you got into, you know, talking about money and becoming an entrepreneur, and how you change your finances. And then we're getting to the all the updates.

Kara Perez 3:14

Yeah, okay, so the TLDR, I grew up low income, single parent, household, two siblings, only one of my siblings to go to college had to take out student loans to do it, and then graduated in 2011 and was like money. Where is it? Because I don't have it. I've never had it, but now I got these loans, and no one seems to want to hire me. I'm 36 today, and I've never had a full time salaried position. Hashtag, millennial things. And so I got I was really low income for the majority of my 20s, and I got really serious about paying off my student loan debt when I was 25 I worked five different part time jobs to do that and blogged about it. Remember blogs back in the day before social media, and just really fell in love with personal finance, and also really fell in love with changing my own financial life. I mean, watching the debt drop was so invigorating, and then once I had paid off my student loans, I was just at zero, I was like, Okay, now I don't have debt, but I don't have any money. So I got very into saving and investing, and I was still talking about it on the internet, and that has kind of snowballed into my financial education business today. So that's my very quick money recap. Do

Jamila Souffrant 4:28

you remember what year you started your financial like journey, the conscious financial journey, to pay off debt, and then when you started bravely go, what year that was?

Kara Perez 4:37

Yeah. So the year that I had my quarter life crisis. I was 25 so that was like 2013 2014 and then I officially got the LLC for bravely go in January, 2017 so that's when I think of like the business being born. But I kind of had my financial awakening. In 2013 2014 and that's when I was 2014 2015 that's when I was paying off my debt and binging personal finance blogs and podcasts and really learning about money.

Jamila Souffrant 5:10

Do you think? And this kind of I'm gonna veer off just a little bit, because I'm wondering. I started journey to launch the blog in 2016 and then the podcast in 2017 and you know now things are different. I definitely don't feel as connected to like who's in the space, like with blogs and podcasts, like newcomers, but I know that there are people like, where we were 10 years ago, who are listening or who are interested in personal finance, and then want to transition to maybe creating content around it and having a business potentially as just a way to express themselves and make money, maybe. So do you feel like the landscape now is different, like that? You could have done the same thing now and be as successful as you were. Or is it harder now? Or is it easier with like Tiktok and all these other platforms?

Kara Perez 5:57

Yeah, it's a really good question. I do feel like the landscape is totally different, and I think that's because of the new platforms, predominantly Tiktok really changing it, because when we started, it was much more long form content. I mean, people primarily had blogs, and Twitter was also kind of the main personal finance social media platform. I feel like in 2018 2019 it started to shift towards Instagram with the introduction of stories and the algorithm changing from chronological to like whatever it is now like most engaged with and then obviously, in 2020 Tiktok just blew up with people staying home and being on their phones all the time. So to answer your question, I do think that anyone starting today in any niche, like personal finance, cooking, whatever. I do think anyone can still kind of blow up and make a career or business out of it. I just think it's different, like now, it's all short form driven, and that is a very different skill set than like podcasting or YouTubing or blogging. And so you have to know how to, like, make a hook. You have to be able to show up four or five times a day on Tiktok. You have to be able to make four or five videos a day. And I also think you have to be very willing to share, like, hyper details of your life, because people connect to the personal. And if you're not willing to share, especially in the finance space, like exactly how much you make, exactly how you make that money, where you keep the money, what interest rate you're getting on what investments. I do think it's going to be a little bit harder because people share all of those details now,

Jamila Souffrant 7:38

yeah, it's just so it's so interesting. It's nice to talk to someone kind of started, kind of when I did, and then, like, there's a ship, and we've talked behind the scenes just about, like our business, like in keeping up with the landscape and what people want to see. And so I don't know, I'd still want to encourage people that, if you know you do have a story to share, and even if you don't feel like you have a talent in short form or want to show up on video. I do think there are still people who want to consume long form content, and, you know, create those deeper relationships that are not microwavable, like content. But I do think it's different. I just find it interesting. So

Kara Perez 8:13

it is different, but it is still possible. Yeah, it's

Jamila Souffrant 8:16

definitely, it definitely is still possible. So you've been able to create a business, a business that provides you your lifestyle. And one of the things that you've done recently or over the past years, was travel a lot. So I remember you had put up a post on your Instagram about becoming like location independent. You were going to move away with your partner somewhere. So I'd love for you to share that, because if it's one thing journeyers want to do is travel or live different places and experience different things, and you seem to be able to do that. So can you share what that was like?

Kara Perez 8:48

Yeah. So in May 2022, my partner graduated with his master's, and I was like, Okay, babe, this is our moment, because if we don't go travel now, we'll never do it, because you'll get a nine to five job, and my business will, just like, constantly be shifting, and hopefully we'll pick up and grow, and we'll never have a chunk of time. This is a gift from the universe. And my partner grew up in a family that didn't really travel. He's from Texas. He's from Austin, Texas, and his parents would be like, Oh, family trip to San Antonio, which is like, two hours away. And I grew up in a family that did travel, but not a lot, because we were low income, you know, we would go, I grew up outside of Boston, so it would be like, we're going to Philadelphia, we're going to New York, we're going to Concord, New Hampshire. And so international travel definitely had this big allure for both of us, so I spent probably two months planning a trip. We traveled for all of June and July 2022 we went to Mexico, Costa Rica and Colombia and various places within each country. And we wanted to do that because I'm half Dominican and I. Really wanted a chance to practice my Spanish. I didn't grow up with my Spanish speaking parent, and so my Spanish is mediocre, I would say. And I was like, let's go to Spanish speaking countries, and we like to hike and be in nature. So it was really cool to be able to go to like Costa Rica and Colombia. They're such beautiful countries. And then we came back. But my partner, because my partner, thought he would get a job, we came back for August. He applied all August for jobs. And then we were like, Hey, you're not getting hired. Like, you're just not getting hired, babe, it's nothing against you. We could live for less if we go back to Colombia, like, we can live off of just my income and some of your savings if we go back to Colombia and we don't travel around. So we went back to Medellin, Colombia, which is awesome, and I strongly recommend everyone visit. And we stayed there for six weeks, just living in an apartment, and like, taking Spanish classes and just living and so that was a really, really cool experience. And the only reason we came back because he didn't get a job. So that was 2022 still, he didn't get a job until 2023 the only reason we came back is because I have Crohn's disease, and I had to get a colonoscopy, not to get too intimate on the podcast, but I had to get a colonoscopy and an MRI, and I couldn't do that abroad. I had to have that done at home. So it was such an incredible experience, and I'm so glad we prioritized it. We saved for about six months before we took the trip. He saved eight grand. I saved eight grand. So we had $16,000 which was way overkill. We did not need that much, which ended up being great, because then we had some money to live off of while he was unemployed.

Jamila Souffrant 11:45

Yeah, no, actually, I'd love you brought that you came back for some healthcare reasons to the states, because that's a big concern for people who either want to permanently live or live extendedly in another country. Sometimes, you know, I'll see, oh, some health. Healthcare is cheaper in other places, and actually good. But then sometimes I hear like, actually, the quality is not as the standard of what maybe American like standards of quality is. So I think that's all important that people have to consider when they're thinking about where they're going to travel, if they're going to stay there for a long time, and if they have any pre existing conditions,

Kara Perez 12:18

yeah. And I think I want to say, I definitely think you can, as an American, get health care in Colombia, but we hadn't gotten travel insurance that would have included that. So it just would have been more complicated, probably cheaper, honestly, but more complicated to try and find that. And I didn't feel comfortable because I was really sick. I was having a really bad flare up, and I didn't feel comfortable trying to navigate, trying to explain in my broken Spanish, like what my body was experiencing. So it just made more sense for me to come back. But I do think that, like, medical tourism is a very valid option for people. I mean, health care in the United States is so bananas, yeah,

Jamila Souffrant 12:59

well, you talked about saving up in advance for this, and I guess it would be important to know at that point, when you made the decision that you do this, you'd start saving. Where were you guys with your financial goals at that point? Because I know for some people like they could still be in debt and just have other financial things happening, but they're like, I want to travel. And so how do they prioritize knowing that they have this once in a lifetime chance when there's maybe someone is in between jobs, there's a break and you can take this opportunity and do something or be responsible and not do that thing. Like, how do you how you balance between those two? Yeah,

Kara Perez 13:37

so I live my life, my financial life in my personal life, by this philosophy that I like to call financially secure YOLO. I'm very much so someone who advocates for saving and investing, and I swear by values based budgeting. But I'm also keenly aware that we only have one life to live like YOLO is very real. So what I do and what I have practiced ever since I paid off my debt when I was 27 so nine years ago, I paid off all my student loans, and I was like, Okay, I have sacrificed a lot to pay off this debt. Like I worked five different part time jobs. I lived on $10,000 a year. I said no to everything that wasn't debt payoff, that wasn't budgeting. And then I continued to live like that for basically another two years so that I could start investing, so that I could start saving. So when I turned 2930 I was like, man, guess what? I'm never going to be 26 again. And that's not to say that I can't have an amazing life in my 30s and 40s and 50s. It just means I'm never going to be in my 20s again, and so moving forward, I really want to be able to balance having a good time and looking out for future me. So that's where financially secure YOLO came in, where I take the beginning part of each year, usually January through April to six. Even invest very aggressively. So I'm not really going out to eat. It's not my birthday. It's not my partner's birthday. We don't travel. We're just like at home, watching Netflix, saving money, because we're big outdoors people, like I mentioned earlier, and every summer, we're hiking, we're camping, we're traveling, we're going to the beach. So I see my life in seasons. There's seasons of savings and there's seasons of spending every year. And for me, it happens to be that winter is when I save and summer is when I spend. And for 2022 like 2021 and 2020 obviously, we weren't going out and we weren't traveling. So those were big years of savings. So when 2022 rolled around, we were like, Let's spend this money. And I encourage people to kind of sit down and review their years like, you've got kids, so you know when your kids birthdays are, and those are going to be big spending moments, right? And then you might have a couple of months where you're like, we don't really do anything in September, like, It's back to school, and we're just, like, at home, we're cooking and we're not really doing anything, but June, we go hard because it's two kids birthdays plus our anniversary or something. Okay, so September is a month where we can save a lot, and June's a month where we can spend a lot. And that approach to living really helps me, because nothing is forever. It doesn't mean I'm going to be in this season of not spending any money for the rest of my life, because I know summer is coming up and I'm going to be bawling out. So that kind of mindset and that kind of practice really works for me.

Jamila Souffrant 16:33

I really love that I love I love that. It's tangible advice for anyone listening right now and what or watching is to, you know, look at your year, like, When are your friends, especially your own season of life. It's like, your your season of life you're in, and then the actual season you're in, and that what that year looks like. And it's like, okay, so, you know, there was a time in my 20s like it was always someone's birthday, and everybody's birthday was a big production, so you had to save up. And there was a birthday dinner, a party, a trip, and then now we don't really do that as much, but like you said, my kids, I know everything happens within like two months. They have all their birthdays. We have anniversary. And so I think for anyone to sit down really look at your year, like when's if you're a person that does celebrate birthdays and goes out or travels or knows you eat out more in the summer, like me, or Christmas right, like around then, and then work backwards to see, okay, how do I make sure I'm prepared financially for for that? And then what I'm thinking about, which is funny, is it's like, I'm like, wow, every month seems like a big spending month. So in those instances, if you're looking at it, you're like, wait a second, like, I don't really feel like I have a down month of something happening. It's like, okay, but that's where prioritization comes in. And it is like, Okay. Maybe you can't go all out for this thing. Maybe you do. You put that limit on it so you can prepare and be financially ready. But I do like looking sitting and looking at that in that way your life and your finances, yeah.

Kara Perez 18:00

And, you know, the whole thing about money is it is flexible. I think oftentimes people think, Well, I have to do this, I have to spend money on this trip, or I have to spend money on going out to eat. But money is always going to be flexible. And it may be harder. There may be an option that's harder because it requires more attention or more work. Like, if you are door dashing five days a week because you work, you know, 70 hours a week and you're really tired, you don't have time to cook. Like, I get it, door dashing makes a lot of sense. However, maybe there is something that you can do. Maybe there's something else you can change. Like, don't I always try and tell people, find the most stressful areas of your life, and start there and say, Why is this so stressful? Why is this so hard? Is there anything I can do to make this easier? Is there any help I can ask for? Is there a tool I can use so for the people who feel like every single month is insane, you know, try and figure out what's making each month so insane, spending wise. And is there one area I can focus on, rather than being like, I have to stop all spending. Like, that's not realistic,

Jamila Souffrant 19:05

right, right, which I'm sure you give some great tips about just all of that in your book. So I do want to turn to talk more about the concepts. And you know, one of the things I know you're big on is the sustainability and basically just being smart, not with your money, but also with, like, how you use the money in the world around you, and the economy and all those things. So I want to kind of pivot a little bit and talk more about like, how can someone be more conscious with their spending, with, you know, their investing in such a capitalistic world where sometimes you all you see is like the bad in the you know, things, because you're just like us the system. But how can we operate in the system but still do well financially?

Kara Perez 19:47

Yeah, so I love that you use the word system, because I feel like people hear that and they just think, so the system is bigger than me. There's nothing I can do. But what I always say to people is, there's nuance, there's new. Wants within the system, right? What I really wanted to do with the book was help people think of their money as a tool for change. So like in my life, I changed my spending and earning habits in my 20s so that I could use money as a tool to pay off my debt. That was an action that helped improve my personal finances. And what the book does is take that as a premise and say, Okay, well, how can we then turn money onto the system, right? So like, how can we change the fact that banks are funding fossil fuel projects, which, in turn, are creating climate change? Well, you can take your money out of the banks that are funding fossil fuel projects, and you can put it in a local credit union, or you can put it in a green bank that funds like solar energy or wind energy. You can use your money as a tool via this individual action. And the book does also talk about collective action, you know, and how we can use legislation to create bigger, high level change. But really it is about helping people understand that we do live in a system. We do live under capitalism, like we do all have to spend money and earn money, and so instead of pretending like we don't live in that system, you know, which I think a lot of people who hope for change, do they kind of live in this La La Land of like, well, if things were already different, and the book is very practical. Books like, but here's where we're at right now. So like, here's steps you can take to get to different via using your money.

Jamila Souffrant 21:29

So with that, what's like, a step someone can like take if they want to put their actions behind their heart, or, you know, they say they want to, like, do things that support the environment or be more responsible, like, what are the next steps they should take in researching where to put their money or what to do next?

Kara Perez 21:48

We should definitely get the book, because the book has a whole action plan, but the kind of immediate thing that's going to have, it's very easy to do, and it's going to have a big impact, is switch banks. So if you currently bank with Chase wells, Fargo, Bank of America or Citibank, taking your money out of those banks is a huge climate action that you can do, and it takes like 10 minutes to switch banks. It's very easy to do so those four banks are the biggest funders of fossil fuel projects in the United States, so they're funding like fracking in West Texas and deep oil drilling and building new coal plants, which is creating climate change. Fossil fuels are the main problem when it comes to warming up the planet, so taking your money out of those banks affects their bottom line, because the fewer customers they have, the less money they have, right? So simply taking your money out and like I said, putting it in a credit union, or putting it in a green bank, or putting it in a woman owned bank or a black owned bank, like there are a lot of small banks all across the United States that have much more ethical and sustainable business practices than the big four. So that's really a very easy task for anyone who's like, oh yeah, I'd like to just do better with my money. And that's not about where you're spending, where you're shopping, or which I think people get very caught up in, in the sustainability conversation. This is going to have a much bigger impact, and it's way easier to do.

Jamila Souffrant 23:16

And what do you say to the people who don't feel like they have a lot of money in the first place so they're like, What is my $10,000 gonna do if I pull it out, pull it out of the chase, right? Like, how did, yeah, how do you get over that emotional kind of hurdle that you're not making a difference? You

Kara Perez 23:31

know, somebody once said to me, they just asked on Instagram. She was like, Hey, I have an old 401 k from a job I had, like, two jobs ago. It only has a couple $1,000 in it. Is it even worth trying to go get that 401 K and, like, roll it over into an IRA or into my new 401 K and I just said, Hey, if I walked up to you randomly today and offered you $3,000 would you turn me down? Or would you be like, Yes, I could definitely use $3,000 I think we often. We live in a world where it's so easy to see the hyper, hyper, hyper wealthy, right? It's you every day. It's like Elon Musk is in the news doing something crazy, and it's like, world's richest person at $200 billion and we see these crazy numbers, and it's easy to kind of think, like, that's the norm, because those are the people that are constantly in the media, or that a lot of people aspire to be. But in reality, the average American household, which is anyone who's over 15 and working and living together, so if you have two parents and a kid who works at Dunkin Donuts, that's a household. The average American household makes 75 grand a year, like the average American is not a billionaire. So if you're thinking, Oh, I only have $10,000 does it really matter if I take that out of Chase, Chase considers that a lot of money, right? And you probably consider $10,000 a lot of money. If I walked up to you and offered you 10 grand, you'd be like, Heck, yeah. So remember. That every dollar that you earn, that you spend, that you invest, that has a very real impact on the world around us. And whether it's $1 $10,000 or $100 million it all has an impact.

Jamila Souffrant 25:16

I Jamila here, host of this podcast, and author of the book, your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness. Just a few years ago, I was in a job I didn't like, with a long commute, feeling stuck. I knew there had to be a different, better way. Then I found the pathway to financial freedom and financial independence. Today, I have more money, options and freedom than I ever thought was possible, and in my book your journey to financial freedom, I'll show you how you can achieve that too. You'll learn how to spend and save responsibly, all while enjoying that spicy Margarita and exercise guacamole. Determine where you are on the journey and evaluate your spending and saving goals accordingly. Quit your job, retire early or reach financial independence. My book, your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness, is out now and available on Amazon bookshop.org, Barnes and Noble and more, you can leave and listen to the audiobook, narrated by me, go to your journey to financial freedom.com. To get a free bonus when you order the book and see all the places to buy it once again, go to your journey to financial freedom.com. When it comes to value based spending, obviously earning for a lot of people is an issue, and they're not earning enough for their basic needs, but in some instances, people are earning enough, but there's just, there's so many things we want to spend our money on. There's a necessities, of course, and then there are the discretionary things that just make our life happier. So how does one get to a place where they are spending based on their values, but and they don't feel like they're depriving themselves? And is that possible? Basically, are we selling people like a dream saying, like, oh, like, deprivation is not a part of it. And like, I don't say that. I think delayed gratification is something that people have to get used to, because I don't think you could have everything at once that you want. But how do you walk people and help people through the idea of value based spending? And, you know, putting things off or not having all the things they want and feeling deprived because of it,

Kara Perez 27:25

yeah. So I think today in the US, we've all been sold a lie that constant shopping is the way to be happy. Everything is for sale in the United States, right? Everything, and many of us, if you have disposable cash, can have anything you want very quickly, because we have one day shipping, two day shipping, and you can DoorDash your favorite meal every single night. You can overnight yourself a cute dress that you saw on Amazon. Like it's very easy to satisfy a whim that you've had, and that leads to not only over consumption, which is bad for the environment, but it actually, turns out, is really bad for us mentally, and it doesn't lead us to feeling satisfied. It instead creates this kind of endless competition that we can't win with ourselves. Because if there's always something else that you can buy, that means there's always something about yourself that you can change, or that you should be you're kind of like a project that doesn't have an end. You can always be thinner, you can always be hotter, you can always be richer. And so if you never reach a point of satisfaction, You're never satisfied. So I think a lot of people the first step when we talk about values based budgeting, they hear deprivation. You have to stop buying things that make you happy. But really, what we're saying is, does buying things all the time make you happy, just think about it for a second, or does spending time with your family make you happy? Does spending time in your garden make you happy? Does going to the movies with your husband make you happy? Like, what are the things that actually make you happy? Is it having a full cart on Amazon, or is it spending the day with your kids at the playground? And once you begin to identify the things that you really value that actually make you happy, then the question becomes, okay, how do I get these? Sometimes you're gonna have to spend money absolutely like, every time I eat Thai food, I'm like, Oh my God. God bless Thailand. This food is delicious, and I've attempted to make it myself a couple of times. It's never as good. It's never as good. So I'm just like, I'm a buy Thai food, and that's going to be amazing. But other things that bring me joy, going on walks with friends, re watching Parks and Rec, which I own on DVD, like I'm learning how to embroider, and that makes me really happy, because it's this creative outlet for my hands and my brain. So how can we get joy, and how can we get our needs met without spending all the time, is really the question,

Jamila Souffrant 29:51

especially when you were talking about platforms and social media at the beginning of the conversation. And you know, I've now stumbled into. The organization content creators on Instagram, and they're from Tiktok, they kind of, you know, they're all over and I swear, like, sometimes when I look at I'm like, my gosh, like, maybe I do need that thing, you know, like, even me, like, who I don't really like to shop, but when I'm looking at the person and persons and how organized everything is, and then there is a thing for everything, like, literally, things I didn't even think existed. There's a holder for that. There's a cutter for that. And I'm just like, wow. And then, you know, you'll see all the people in the comments who are like that are amazed, just like I am, and they're just expressing that. And I could just see like, but how like does the average person, if they're going like, they can't like, literally, like, the person will have like, 50 Amazon boxes, like, coming and they're opening it. Everyone's just, and it's like, you know, people watch the people who eat, the, what's that called when they eat food, the milk thing, yes. And so it's like, you get satisfaction of, like, just watching someone eat, which I don't get whatever, whatever's your thing. And then now it's like, the satisfaction even I get. I'm like, wow, look at, like, opening the boxes, like, all these gadgets that this person has. And, you know, I don't need to, like, I'm sure they're making a lot of money doing that, and it's part of, like, their business model. But I'm just like, wow. No wonder why it's so hard for some people. Because if you're in a place where you have a budget and your other goals are completed, and I can see, if you're just a organized person, why that is wonderful, like, I have a budget to buy these things, but if you're someone who's already struggling and you see stuff like that, I mean, how can you get ahead? Yeah,

Kara Perez 31:31

and that's exactly it is that so much of what we see now is on social media, and so much of what we see on social media is an ad, even if they're not being upfront, like, Hey, I'm trying to sell you this thing, if they're displaying how they're using it, and they're creating that desire in you, that jealousy, maybe for you to have what they have. That's an ad, and that is non stop on social media, which creates that kind of endless pit that I was talking about, of I need to buy, buy, buy, buy, but I really encourage people to look back through their credit card statements or their bank statements if they find themselves making frequent impulse purchases, and then look around their house and see how much of that they're actually using, and how much of it is actually just in a drawer somewhere, or already has been thrown out, or they don't even know where it went because It never worked right? Or whatever it is like, we buy a lot of actual junk because things are not well made, or a lot of these small things on social media, they're made out of plastic. They break very easily, or they don't fit in the drawer because our drawer is a different size than the drawer that we saw being organized on Tiktok, right? And so it's kind of, it creates this endless race that you can't win. And so it's really powerful to sit down and say, like, Okay, actually, I'm gonna I'm gonna not run this race. I'm gonna opt out, and I'm only gonna opt in when it's something that I know I need, that I know I want to use, that I've bought before. Made me really happy. Just at some point you really have to say, I can't compete with the endless algorithm, like the algorithm never turns off, and there's always someone making a new video, making a new video, but you're one person, and you can't compete with the 50 billion users on Tiktok. And that's okay. That's not deprivation, that's not loss, that's you reclaiming control over your own life. And

Jamila Souffrant 33:20

it's so important too, to have our friends, our community, the people like around us that influence us, and we kind of bounce things off of and doesn't have to be specific, like money conversations like, oh, did you budget today to your best friend? Right? But I know there's that joke, like walking to target and you only wanted, like, eggs, you, you know, you walk out spending 400 and it's, it is funny, because I think that that's an experience. I've had a lot of people have that, but imagine if, like, the only circle of people or influence around you, like, that's that's normal, which it kind of is, but that's all you heard. It was like, it's right, it happens. Versus hearing like, these conversations with us and other people and realizing, like, okay, that might happen a lot, but it's also part of the system, wanting you to keep doing that, and it's okay to be like, You know what, though, like, that's actually not something I can continue to do if I'm trying to reach financial freedom or independence. And so, like, I know community and building community is a big part of also, like, something that you're passionate about. And so to me, that's part of it. It's like, what's the environment around you normalizing? And can we normalize a bit of if we say no to something, it doesn't mean we are completely miserable, depriving ourselves. We're just saying no, not yet, no, it's not the right time.

Kara Perez 34:30

Yes, yeah, 100% I love how you phrase that, of what are the people around you kind of establishing as the norm, or what are they asking you to spend, or what are they asking you to save? Right? And this is why I think financial community is so important to build. You need to have people in your life, and I talk about this in the book that you can discuss your financial goals with and your financial fears with. And you need to have people that you can support on their financial journey, and that. Can support you. So one of my favorite stories for the book was this mom who found a babysitting Co Op. So it was her and other parents in her neighborhood. So like her direct neighbors and people a couple streets over who, instead of paying for child care, they organized together and just swapped babysitting. So it would be like, Okay, Sarah and Jose are going to watch my daughter Jenny, for six hours this weekend while my husband and I go on a hike or something, you know, and then I owe Sarah and Jose six hours of babysitting, so there's no exchange of money, but we're getting our childcare needs met, and people are able to go out on date night or go to like the parent teacher conference, or whatever it is. And I loved that, because that's an example of creativity in our budget that gives us back control over our spending and still allows us to get our needs met. Yes,

Jamila Souffrant 35:59

and I think the community aspect, some things are coming up as you were talking like that may be barriers, or we can talk through about what people can think about in their lives. But you know, I think trust and communicating to the people around you and talking to them is important because a lot of us, you know, especially since the pandemic, even before, the ways, the way our homes are kind of designed, especially depending on the city you live in, there's a lot of distrust, you know, in the world, and you know, like, you don't always know your neighbor. Like, I remember knowing when I was younger, a lot of my neighbors, and I know my neighbors now, but you know, there's some words just like, okay, like, you know, yeah. But I think you know, understanding, you know, talking, and you just never know, like, who that person is, or what they do or what skill they have, because one of the things that I would need help with in my daily life, right? Is my daughter. So I have three kids. My youngest is a girl, and her hair, so I'm not someone who, like, is a natural hair doer, if that's a word, you know, but like, it's a thing, like, it's a thing, like, in the black community, especially for like, black children girls, hair takes a lot of time. You know, it's one of those things where, you know, I was never into dolls and practice on braiding and doing hair. So with my daughter, it's a lot. And I know some moms, it's like, they can braid. It's nothing, like they get their hair done, they take joy in it. And I was just thinking we were talking, I need to find a mom I can, you know, exchange, like, you know, what skill can I provide you or do for you so that you could, like, braid my daughters here and save me those hours or that stress of figuring that out. But in the same regard, I think what's happening is one of the reasons why I maybe wouldn't do that, and just like, pay someone is it's it's also expected, like, kind of like you're supposed to do your you should, you should enjoy and do your daughter's hair. Like, what do you mean? You don't want to do it. And, you know, even that responsibility of like raising children, or like not wanting to cook or clean and doing things and kind of offsetting that, I feel like, for women that expected what you should do also prevents us, maybe from reaching out and exchanging those in kind services. What do you think?

Kara Perez 38:09

Oh my gosh, that's such a good point. I do think, and I'm not a mom, but I do think that we in the US have crazy expectations for parents in general and especially for moms, there's a woman named Amy Westerfeld who has a quote that I think about all the time. She's like we expect, and I'm paraphrasing, she says, we expect women to parent like they don't have jobs, and to work like they're not moms. And it is this duology that a lot of women contain, of like I'm my own person, and I am a mom, and I have to, like, go to work, and I have to work out, and I have to clean my house, and I have to bake for the bake sale, and I have to, like, volunteer at my kids school, and I have to drop my kids off so they don't take the bus. Because I'm the perfect parent, and it's an impossible thing to actually be. You can't be the perfect parent and the perfect employee and the perfect like, independent woman, right? But we expect women to do that, and so I do think that's a very good point. I think it's well worth like, discussing within your own life, you know, if you feel like people are putting those expectations on you or judging you for something, you know, and just really owning like, it's not a fault to ask for help. It's not a fault to share responsibility. It's not a fault to exchange time and skills and services. It actually makes my life richer and makes my kids life richer, right? Like now they get, you know, if it's like you do have a neighbor, let's say who can do your daughter's hair, and now that neighbor does your daughter's hair for, let's say, five years, and now all of a sudden that's like, that's a aunt Jackie, you know. And like, my daughter now has a great relationship with Aunt Jackie. And I got an hour free, or, you know, or however long it takes each week to literally, whatever. And I, I don't know, I bring Jackie a. Lasagna once a week for the exchange. But I actually think asking for help and breaking down these really harmful expectations make our lives richer and can also make our exchanges richer and more exciting.

Jamila Souffrant 40:19

Yeah, I totally I totally agree one of the things that I know you navigate your finances with is with a partner. And so I would love to, like, just understand for someone listening who wants to take this journey. You know, get more intentional with their finances. You know, make some changes that are more based on their values in terms of spending and even earning money or travel doing it by yourself is one thing, because it's, you know, you just consult with yourself and work through those things. But how do you how do you do that with a partner, um, who has maybe a different type of job, who's not an entrepreneur or just has different values and different goals, like, what does that look like? Oh

Kara Perez 40:57

my gosh. Okay, I just said to my partner, so I've been with my partner over 10 years, and we have very similar value systems, but it shows up in very different ways. And so literally, two days ago, I was just like, I love you so much, but if I was single, we wouldn't have to have this conversation, because I wanted to do something with money that made so much sense to me. And he was like, why would you do that? I was like, how could you not see what I see, and I love him so much, and I don't want to be single, but yeah, I mean, the challenge of being partnered, being married, right, is like trying to find a way to grow at roughly the same rate as another person indefinitely, which is so bananas and like so fun, but so my partner, to give a little recap, my partner and I don't share any bank accounts. So we don't have any shared investments. We don't have a shared checking or savings. And I know a lot, especially women on the internet and in our financial space, also don't share bank accounts, and they say it's because there are high instances of like, financial abuse for women, like against women, and 99% of domestic abuse cases have an aspect of financial abuse to them. But I will just say that, like, the reason that my partner and I don't share bank accounts is because I am a nitty gritty financial control freak, and it would absolutely destroy our relationship. If I was like, Hey, I noticed you spent $7 on Tuesday that wasn't in the budget. What'd you spend that on? What's going on there, which I would want to do, because I control my own budget very tightly. I enjoy getting into my spreadsheets and like doing projections, and just like hunting down, oh, they overcharged me for this. Let me call and negotiate that I enjoy that my partner does not. He wants to think about money as in frequently as possible. He's just sort of like, this is so boring, this is so stressful. So for us to have completely combined finances would be a disaster. But what we do do, and we have done very successfully for the last eight years, is we do a once a month money date, where we sit down, we look at all of our accounts together. There's total transparency. He can see how much I have in savings, how much I have in investments. I can see the same for him. We Venmo each other for shared expenses, and then we'll talk about anything that we have coming up that we are going to do as a couple, like, we recently attended a wedding, and so we had to pay for the Airbnb. We talked about, like, gas expenses to drive down there. And then anything that one of us wants to do that we just think the other one should be aware of, like, Hey, I think I'm going to buy, you know, he's a musician, and he has, God, I can't a loop pedal, I think so that, like the guitar, when he's playing the guitar, he can record himself, and then the sound will play over and over, and then he can play a different sound on top, as I think how that works, and it broke, and he was like, Well, I'm gonna need to buy a new loop pedal. It's probably gonna be 100 bucks. And I was like, great. You know, that's coming out of his bank account. That's not mine. I'm clearly not even sure how the loop pedal works, but like, it's important to him, and he's just letting me know he's not asking for permission, and he doesn't need to. And if I want to go out and be like, I'm I'm going to spend $1,000 on Thai food. You know, that's my prerogative. That's my choice. And that works well for us, because we know exactly what's going on in the other person's life, but we don't have to bend ourselves into the other person's view of finances.

Jamila Souffrant 44:30

And how does that work? Says, I mean, like, obviously, in practice is working for you, right? And in theory, it sounds like, yeah, of course that would work. Like, we keep things separate for shared things, we divvy it up how it should be. And that works, like you said, because you have similar values. And he's probably even though he looks at money differently, like he doesn't want to think about it in budget to a T, he probably is financially sound himself like he's not. Probably there's some people right, like they're together, and the person is spending a lot and getting into a lot of debt. And then. That's putting a burden and stress and causing issues it sounds like because maybe that's not the case with you guys like you both, are not in that scenario, that it works that way.

Kara Perez 45:10

Yeah. So I will say when we got together 10 and a half years ago, he did have a lot of student loan debt. He had like $65,000 in student loan debt. So there was a time where I was debt free and he still had debt, and I was again, I was like, Okay, here's how I paid off my debt. You can pick up a side hustle, and if we do this, that and the other thing. And he was like, Kara, I'm making extra payments every month. I have a plan like, you need to chill. So we have had conflict in the past around money, but now we're both consumer debt free. We don't have student loan debt, and we our values aligned, like he's not a big shopper, and he's also okay, like delaying immediate gratification for a bigger payoff. So we just moved to Massachusetts, and a trip that we both want to take is to Iceland, because it's a pretty short flight. I think it's shorter to get to Iceland than it is to get to California, which always blows my mind. And so we were just talking about, oh, maybe we'll do that next fall, a year from now. So what do we need to save for that? Like, how much should you save? How much should I save? And so we have those discussions, but because, yeah, there is no major issue between the two of us. I would say this is much easier if you do have a major issue between you and your partner. I think the good approach there is going to be not talking numbers, instead talking experiences and values. You know, if someone is really struggling to spend money? If someone's like, cheap, right, or kind of a tight watt, why do Is there a financial fear? There? Is there a scarcity mindset? Is there an experience they had growing up where they felt lack and now they're really holding tight to money? Or conversely, if someone is spending, spending spending, why is that making them feel like it's in control? Because they feel out of control in another area of life. So if you find yourself with a big gap between your romantic partner, I think, like, put the numbers aside for a second. Don't even talk accounts. Like, get at the emotions of it.

Jamila Souffrant 47:12

Yeah. And the other thing that just came up, which may cause issues is, like, maybe the income disparity, like, how much people make is different, and then they're expected to split things. And so, right? And that, for you know, I know a lot of women maybe have gone through this, because maybe the man is earning more, and then, like, but you're expected to pay, but you're left with not much at the end of the month for your own goals. Yeah,

Kara Perez 47:34

yeah. And I will say I'm the breadwinner, and I've been the breadwinner in my relationship for the last, like five years. And I will say, I do think an element of this is luck. Like my partner does not care. He's like, Babe, when are you retiring me? Literally, last night, I was like, Oh, I'd love to retire you. He's like, I'd love for you to retire me. So I do think that's maybe a little bit of a just lucky personality break there. But yeah, that can be a very, a very challenging situation for

Jamila Souffrant 48:00

couples, right? That you should talk through, or at least be aware of what's happening. Okay? Cara, please. I want everyone to go get your book. Please tell us the name of it again. Who should pick this up and read it and where they can get it?

Kara Perez 48:14

Yes. So the name of the book is green money, how to reduce waste, build wealth and create a better future for all. And it's available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble bookshop, target. It's very easy to find, which is great. And you can find me on the internet. I'm very Google able, is what I always tell people. Kara Perez type it into Google. But I'm also on Instagram at we bravely go. Tiktok is the same, and I'm on YouTube at bravely go. And really I'm a long form girly, coming back to our conversation we had earlier, I'm a long form girly. So I also have a website, bravely go.co, that has articles and a bunch of stuff on it for folks, and

Jamila Souffrant 48:56

we will link all that in the show notes. And by the way, it's

Kara Perez 49:00

with a K, yes, yes. With a K, not with a C, yes.

Jamila Souffrant 49:04

So I'll link all that in the show notes so you can check out her work and find her book. But this was such a great conversation and catch up. Thank you for coming on the show.

Kara Perez 49:12

Oh my gosh, this was delightful. Thank you for having me.

Jamila Souffrant 49:16

Don't forget, you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this, and you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch.com/jump start. If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here. Here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcast, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify wherever it is that you happen to listen. Just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple. Podcast, rate review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm at journey to launch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, and I love, love, love interacting with journeyers. There three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here, so show them some love for supporting your girl four. And last but not least, share this episode, this podcast, with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to launch. All right, that's it until next week. Keep on journeying. Journeyers, you

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