Episode 418: The UGLY Truth About Trying to Reach Financial Independence – Is This a Fool’s Errand?

Jamila Souffrant 0:02

We can make all the plans we want, and things will happen that we cannot control at all. It's the same thing with your financial journey. You may change, not you may change. You will change. Your Goals. Can change. Shifting with that, and being able to change your mind and adjust as you go is so important, because you can make a plan today, but you need to understand how to be flexible with that plan as things come up. T minus 10

seconds, welcome to the journey. To launch podcast with your host, Jamila Souffrant as a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave journeyers like you, get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in 54321,

Jamila Souffrant 1:00

hey, hey, hey, journeyers, so I have a special announcement for you, and it's a special treat. So I'm excited to invite you to join the your journey to financial freedom book club. And so yes, my book, Your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness, has been helping so many of you, and I've been so encouraged and inspired by your feedback, but I want you who have not read the book or maybe bought it, but have not implemented anything to take action. And so I am starting a book club now. This book club can be joined anywhere. So you can be from anywhere. It can start anytime. You can do it by yourself. You can rally and invite your family, friends or co workers and get started. So this is how it's going to work. I have created free discussion guides that you can download right now that will help you have discussions around topics in the book, and with that, you can then have community, have some implementation, have some guidance on the topics in the book to help you take action. You can get those downloads for free by going to journey to launch.com/book club. There are going to be two discussion guides that come along with your downloads. One is going to be a chapter by chapter discussion for those who like to get really into details and weeds. And then there's gonna be more flexible, general themes, discussion guide that you can choose from. These guides are packed with questions and takeaways, designed to help you bring the books ideas right into your life. So the first step is getting the book. If you haven't gotten it already, grab your copy of your journey to financial freedom. You can get that by going to your journey to financial freedom.com it's also available on Amazon, target at your local bookstores and the library. Don't forget your local library right now. Actually, it's half off on Amazon if you want to grab it for less than $15 and then you can start your own book club and then join me in the month of April, which is financial literacy month, I'll be dedicating a couple of episodes of the podcast to some topics specific to the book and to the discussion guide, so you can follow along with me. So start your your journey to financial freedom book club right now. Go to journey to launch.com/book club. To get started if you want the episode. Show Notes for this episode, go to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode in the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned and so much more also, whether you are an OG journeyer or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jump Start guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes to listen to, stages to go through to reach financial freedom resources and so much more you can go to journey, to launch.com/jump start to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Hey, hey, hey, journeyers, welcome to the journey. To launch podcast. I am your host, Jamila Souffrant, and this will be a solo episode, and I want to dig a bit deeper into the idea of financial independence. So the topic, the title, if you read this and clicked on it, is this the ugly truth about trying to reach financial independence is this a fool's errand. And I wanted to talk about this a bit more because I know the idea of financial independence, which, by the way, I will define, especially for anyone who's new to the podcast or the content, that we're clear and we're at least starting from the same terms. And then I'm going to go into some opinions, maybe facts, about this journey you should know. And it's not to necessarily discourage you, but I want to give you everything up front if you're starting out, if you're already on your journey, to let you know that all the fields, all the reservations, and try. Recommendations it's okay to have, because it's the realness of the journey that you'll experience. So financial independence. What is it when I talk about financial independence, or refer to financial independence in relation to the fire movement, the financial independence retire early movement, it's the concept, and this idea of being able to reach financial independence, meaning you're independent from having to actively work at a job, you can live off of your investments or and or passive streams of income. So working truly becomes optional, and that's the fi in fire and the retire early part is closely tied to it, because once you reach financial independence, you can have the option to retire early if you'd like, or continue working. And so this concept I discovered years ago, which led me to where I am now, because I was in a job and a commute didn't love sound familiar, and I said to myself, I can't do this until I am 65 I do not want to be in this rat race and on this hamster wheel. How do I get out? I found the fire movement. I found articles blogs talking about people aggressively saving and investing over time. So nothing, none of the stories I heard were really that quick, and we'll get to how people can make can fast track their journey. But I really said to myself, Okay, I know I can optimize our finances a lot better. At the time, my husband and I, we had our kids. So we had three kids, but we were doing well. I was working in corporate America, and we could do better. So we did better, and we really optimized our finances and invested and saved over time. Over a couple years, I started the podcast journey to launch, which you're listening to, wrote the book your journey to financial freedom. Because as I was on my journey and making progress, able to quit my job, I was unlocking a lot of the benefits of financial independence and flexibility without actually having reached complete financial independence. And so I know that if you are attracted to this concept, which I don't see why, you wouldn't be of choosing what you do for work, when you work, and having the option to do what you want. It is for a reason. It's it's something calling you. But I do want to be like real about the journey itself, and so I want to talk a bit about, is it worth it to pursue this goal, this dream of financial independence, and is it possible, or is this just pointless? Is this a fool's errand? Now, a lot of people who are in the pursuit of financial independence, you know you're pursuing it for freedom, security. You want to break free of the paycheck to paycheck cycle and living and with that comes sacrifice. So depending on when you hear or find out about financial independence, and depending on where you are with your finances, meaning, do you have a healthy income? Do you have a high income? Are you able to cut back on your expenses and get out of debt and invest? You know, depending on your situation and your starting point, it's your journey is going to look different. And then this, this, this idea that you'll see with other people, whether it's paying off debt, investing all these things, especially with social media, you'll get ideas of the journey. You'll get inspired, maybe discouraged, based on what other people are doing. And ultimately, unless people actually sharing the like the realness, which I a lot of people really aren't. And I don't necessarily think it's all out of deception. I just think, even, like in my case, there are some things because I'm still processing it. I'm not necessarily going to share in real time, right? I might reflect and think about it, and it take, may take a while for me to share certain things about my journey, but I've always wanted to be upfront about it, because I just know that it's so hard until you're actually doing it, until you're you are the one in the driver's seat, just like I believe, having kids like for me, I of course, I thought I could conceptualize and see from other people what it was like, read all the blogs, do all the things, but it wasn't until I am living my life now as a mom that I knew what it would be like to be The type of mom I am to my three kids, like all those are unknown before you kind of do it. And so I think that's the same thing with your financial independence journey, is that it all you can get all the tips and tools, and that's what I aim to provide you here, even in my book, Your journey to financial freedom. But you have to go through it yourself, and it is quite an emotional roller coaster. So a lot of it will be physical action. I talk about this in the book, that there are these things we want to do we have to do in order to reach our financial and lifestyle goals, this outward energy and action, we have to take earning more money, which would look like negotiating for a raise, changing jobs. Going to maybe get a degree that fits into your line of work, though, that's going to take action, right, spending less money. That's also going to take some action, or, you know, maybe a lack of action, but it still takes a energy shift, that you'll have to do something, paying off debt, all these things. These are actions you need to take. But in order for you to take these actions, you have to feel internally like doing it, and even if you don't feel like doing it, are you disciplined enough to do it anyway? All of those internal whether it's struggles or conversations you'll have with yourself, the emotional part of it, especially if you have a family or partner, will impact your journey. So is pursuing this goal of financial independence worth it? If you do the math and you figure out, well, in order for me to pay off the debt, I'm currently in, the consumer debt I'm in, and in order to have enough invested based on how much I want to spend, it may take me. Let's just say, if you're being aggressive to moderately aggressive with your finances 15 years, let's just say. And for some people, it might be more is the sacrifice that you're going to take and the steps you'll need to take worth it for this goal of financial independence. So let's talk about it. I believe one some of the hardest parts about the financial independence journey and even just your regular personal finance journey, right? Just the basic personal finance you need to do to get your stuff in order, is what wealth looks and feels like. This idea of, I like to say invisible wealth, because the sacrifices and things you'll need to do won't be visible to a lot of people from the jump, especially if you're in the beginning stages, because whether it's paying off debt or investing more or saving up money in your savings account, there's so much that you have to do behind the scenes that people unless you're sharing it on social media and sharing it with your family and friends people are not going to know about. And so that might look like delaying of trips and buying certain things, and maybe the discretionary items you'd like to spend on before have to be cut out. So you are here building invisible wealth that people can't see at the expense of the visible wealth that people tend to value in our society. And if you definitely have been just brought up and just feel attached to a lot of the physical and real, I would say things you can see type of wealth, material items that's going to be hard and so you have to really get comfortable with being judged. Maybe people thinking less of you, or maybe they don't. They might underestimate you based on what you say you can't do, or this idea of not that you're saying you're gonna you're broke to your friends now that because you have other priorities, but you may not be able to go to every brunch or go on every girl's trip, and you might have to say, you know, I'm doing something else. I'm maybe saving whatever that looks like. And so it can definitely feel like a lot of pressure, and like you're doing a lot of the sacrifices for nothing if you truly value the old way. And so you'll have to come to an idea, this shift, this perception shift that what you're building, even if you're not able to build up your assets as quickly because you're working on paying off debt, you're working on just getting a budget, those are the seeds that allow you to have true wealth. You also may feel a bit cash poor in the beginning journey or stages, I talk about this, the five journey or stages you need to go through to reach financial independence. And each stage, one through five, you are working up to a point in which you're closer to your financial independence goal. And with that, even if you are making good money. If you are aggressively investing or paying down debt, you won't have as much cash to do the things that you may like to do. So it may feel like, wow, I'm earning all this money, I'm working this hard, and it feels like I have no cash to show for it. So that's the psychological impact. Is when you can't see the wealth and you feel like you're not making as much progress. And then you see, maybe other people who you have no clue what their finances are like, even if they have nice things, you feel like, well, what is the point? Right? Like life? Short, what am I doing all this work for? I want to enjoy myself. And so there's just a disconnect that can happen on your journey between how wealthy you actually are and the time you are buying back for yourself eventually, versus how wealthy you feel in the moment. So you have to remind yourself of the progress. You have to surround yourself with people who value or who see the value in the invisible wealth that we talk about. So if you're listening to this podcast, it's a great start, because then you. Feel it. It's normalized that the wealth that you're building is not as quick, it's not as flashy, but you're buying your freedom and time back, and that's what matters. The other thing so number one was the invisible wealth, and the illusion of wealth that you have or don't have in terms of trying to reach financial independence, the ugly truth. The second thing I would say is the sacrifices and trade offs, if we're being real about what it actually takes, and that if you're used to, or have been used to, spending or living your life a certain way does not or will not, feel liberating at first, and I hope that as you're on the journey, you'll start to really feel how, whether it's a budget or saving more, actually helps you feel more liberated, even though it may feel restrictive because it's not what you're used to. And how can you balance that like, what is it worth to you to be able to maybe pay off debt two years faster than normal, or quit that job in five years, maybe not right away, but that you're able to do certain things faster with the sacrifice of today, like, is it worth not going on the trip? Is it worth not going out to restaurants for a few months or cutting back. And so how do you balance between what's important to you in the future versus what's important to you now? And I have this tendency to you sometimes your future self, while you want to take care of that person, you also need to take care of your current self, right? And so how is that challenge of saying no mentally to yourself in the moments where you feel like you deserve it, you need it, you want it, everyone else is doing it. How can you come to terms with that and reframe it, or sometimes say yes, so that the journey is not all about deprivation, but instead of maybe paying off debt two years earlier because you're willing to and you understand the trade offs. Spend a little bit more in the now it's not going to be as quickly to pay off your debt, so you got to strike that balance between saving for the future and enjoying the present. But the way I like to frame it also is that while saving and investing in your 401 K or your emergency fund feels like a far off goal, the more you do that today, it does allow you more freedom today, because when I first started my journey, just as an example, we were aggressively saving investing to reach financial independence within this certain time frame, I thought it would take us seven years to reach our goals, and I was able to quit my job a lot earlier than the seven years and not because I had all the money in the world, but because we had set ourselves up and did the things that we needed to do in the moment. It gave me more of a safety net to take more risk in real time. I didn't have to wait for the benefits 510, 1520, years out. So the same thing will happen to you as yes, you're planning for the long term. You're doing a lot of long term things and sacrificing in the moment, but you'll quickly see how you're able to benefit and capitalize on these actions for the future in the now, some other sacrifices and trade offs that are just going to happen while you're on the journey. Is a change in relationships, potentially. So if you have a partner and this is something that is new for you and them and they're not on the same page, that might cause some conversations, or may cause some resentment, may cause some disagreements that you have to get real about. It can have some family expectations and shifts, right? So if you, if you are someone who takes care of your family or is known as the generous one of your friends and family, and you now need to change and put on your own mask first that may feel like a shock and just a disappointment to other people, and so navigating that also is not easy, but it is normal. It is part of the process. I do believe this is where the spending plan, aka budget, comes in, because in order to get a true sense of what you actually can do in the moment, versus planning out what you want to do in the future. You need to know how much money is coming in. You need to know how much money is going out. And so understanding that will allow you to make the choices on hey, you know what? I'm going to set some money aside every month to go to maybe get my massages or to go to brunch, and that's important to me. And I know why, and I know I can handle that because I have this spending plan. Or maybe I do need to put aside some money, or I want to put aside some money for maybe you help a family member out with something you have a budget, you can see in real time what you can actually do, versus not knowing and putting yourself deeper in the hole and then having those. Informed conversations, if you need to with that partner or person to let them know what's happening. Okay? The other thing we're discussing, just to recap the ugly truth about reaching financial independence, is the Every level has its devil reality. So what I mean by that is, at each stage. So five Junior stages you go through. The first is the Explorer stage, that's when you're just trying to get it together and pay your bills without going into debt. The second stage is the cadet stage, where you are working on paying off consumer debt. The third stage is the aviator stage. This is where you are able to invest and save more. Fourth stage is the commander stage. This is where you have reached work flexibility. So you don't you can't quit your job forever, potentially, but you have work flexibility. You can choose what you you do, you can take breaks. That's the stage I'm currently in. And then you have stage five, where you have reached complete financial independence. Now at each level, you might think, once I get there, I'm good, like or once I pay off this debt, once I have X amount saved, I am fine, and that is, unfortunately not the case. You know. I know people who have a lot of money or a lot of income, who are still worried, still not secure in their position and their financial journey. Also know people who maybe not have as much, be in debt and seem to to be okay, right? I think all of it is going to be relative more money and financial independence won't solve all your problems. I'm gonna say that again, more money and reaching financial independence will not solve all your problems. I mean, it does solve some good problems that we might have right like, you need money in this world. It's just there's no way around it. You need money, and having more money feels good and is necessary depending on your lifestyle goals and what you like. So I'm not gonna lie to myself or to you and make it seem like we don't need money. But the thing is, more money, and even the idea more security as you get more money and even are able to manage it, doesn't mean who you are and all your issues, emotional, mental, whatever, deep, rooted trauma, whatever that looks like, Those won't necessarily go away like it helps maybe mend or put a band aid on some pain. You know, it can pay for good therapy if you're investing in therapy and all those amazing things. But ultimately, who you are, you have to also work on internally as you're building up your external assets, because the money won't be able to solve the problems deep within and so your financial struggles, even though you might be able to cover, you know, if you cannot have a safe place to live and food, but you're able to now do that like, of course, you're fulfilling your basic needs with money. But then there's other struggles that you can't control, that money necessarily doesn't help, can make worse, whether that is relationships or even health. So I think it's important that we are just real, especially if you even people who are a little further ahead, talk about like, where they're experiencing like in their journey. So for me, for example, as someone who is in the commander stage, so that's the fourth out of the five levels where I have work flexibility. It doesn't necessarily mean that I don't still think about and wonder about, you know, our security and what I want to do, like, with my life. Like I still have these questions, these big questions and small questions that come up every day about my money and my life and so just because I am so blessed and realized that I have the flexibility I have doesn't mean the problems are all solved. The other thing that I think is really interesting, I might have to do a whole another episode about this is going and switching from a saving mindset into a spending and investing mindset. So what I mean by that is there is going to be a point if you reach, as you reach the later levels of your journey, that you know the beginning stages is all about squirling money away and investing as much as possible, at least that that was the case for me, and it was all about watching my account grow like that got me excited when I was able to put away money and invest more and see those accounts rise over time and month by month, felt so, so good. And then, as I then, had to now use my money to live the work, flexible life that I want to live now, which means, okay, you save this money so you can quit your job. Now, let's use this money so you can live and pay your expenses. I did those things. I'm doing those things now. But. But it's unnatural in a way for me, because I'm so used to saving money not spending it. And then also, if you have an issue where you actually, because this, by the way, is an issue for some people actually enjoying and spending the money they have, instead of maybe holding on to it too tight and not enjoying it where you know there's a fine line between just reckless spending and spending to enjoy your hard work. And so if you are caught up and you feel bad about actually spending your money, and you can do certain things make your life easier, in some ways, invest in yourself, whether that is a business or your health or your career, where it causes you to or even, you know, your financial journey, getting a coach, paying financial planners, like these things that actually will help you feel a little hard to do just because you're not used to spending. You're used to trying to save and hold on to money too tight. Money also amplifies your habits. So if you struggle with discipline, I will say this, learn to manage if you have a little bit of money, the little you have so you, when you get a chance, can manage the the money you will have, and this discipline and fulfillment that you want to experience when it comes to, oh, I'll when I have money, I'll do that. It's important to do now, while you're on the path, because, again, the money only amplifies your habits, which is why it's so important to work on it. And then the more money you have, I realize, with people who kind of have more to lose, quote, unquote, comes with stressors of worrying about investments, worrying about taxes. They're just more money, as Biggie said, more problems, even though that actually can be a mindset, block and negative mindset, block around money. And I do think ultimately there's this idea of, is it ever enough? Will you ever really have enough of money to do what you want, right? We have to understand our enough point. But this pressure of, okay, even if you reach a commander stage or the captain stage, people who have that money, is it enough to take care of everything they need, to a big emergencies that come up, things you cannot account for, the market, you know, shifting and losing maybe a quarter of your portfolio in a short amount of time, right? Those are all real concerns when you have money, or when you feel like you are you've worked so hard to achieve or accomplish investing and having certain levels of money. The next thing I would say I want to bring attention to about, is it worth it? You know, the reality of reaching financial independence is the uncertainty of the journey. The beautiful thing about life is that we can make all the plans we want and things will happen that we cannot control at all. It's the same thing with your financial journey. You may change, not you may change. You will change your goals can change the stage of life you're in will change as you get older and you mature and you have better inputs to make better outputs and conclusions about what you want, your circumstances will change. I know what I wanted in my 20s is totally different from what I want in my 40s, and what I wanted or thought I wanted before I had kids is different from what I want now, and even what I want wanted when I quit my job a few years ago is different from what I feel like I want right now. And so shifting with that and being able to change your mind and adjust as you go is so important because you can make a plan today, but you need to understand how to be flexible with that plan as things come up, and then understanding if you never reach financial independence. And I think this is the big overarching, looming question is, will you be happy with the sacrifices you made and who you become on the journey. Will it have all still been worth it? I think yes, but you have to understand and realize and be okay with if this is as good as your life gets, will you'll be okay with it. Now, I'm not saying you can strive and want more, but I do think we, as we're on this journey, need to create our best life today, because we can be putting off living our life, and not necessarily, I'm not talking about spending money to live our life in the best way, but we can be putting off deepening relationships or finding a hobby that we enjoy, or going back to something that really lights us up, spending time with family and friends, or whatever that looks like. We can be putting all that off and saying, Well, when I get to this point or when I have more financial freedom, I'll do it. Versus how do you bring that to your life? Now, because. Because we just never know what's going to happen. And so even as you're thinking about what your financial independence number looks like, so that is the number that you would have reached through saving and investing, through your investment accounts and other vehicles that then allow you to live off of that account and accounts to not work again. You may set that number, what you think you want it to be today, and then, because of circumstances, need to increase it or decrease it, right, depending on if you have kids, you married, career shifts, all those things are going to happen on the journey. And so you don't know. And so that's why you have to be flexible with yourself, patient with yourself, have grace with yourself on the journey, because your path is going to be different from anyone else's path, and there is no way to for sure tell you how it's going to go. We can make our best plan and just adjust it as we go. Think also avoiding this mentality of all or nothing, so financial independence, or nothing, or it's only this one way, just continue to be flexible and to work with yourself as you begin to evolve. Because you're you can't help but to evolve as you you get on this journey. The other thing about the financial independence journey, is it all worth it? Should you do it and how to withstand all this is you have to reframe it as not just a destination. I mean, it's great when you think about having a number, your fi number, and then working towards it, that can feel empowering or not, but it's not just that number. It's everything that happens between today, what you're doing, or what happened when you first started, until that number. It's all the little decisions that have to happen, the practical ways you'll learn to work with yourself, what you're you realize you're willing to give up or not give up, right? It's not just about quitting your job or now if someone gave you all the money you ever needed right now, like, what would your life look like? And even if you had all the money you ever needed right now, you still have to live your life and find meaning in it. And I do believe that comes from work, doing work and being and feeling like we are a member of society, whatever that looks like for you, whether it's your community or just doing and working on something that you feel like brings value to yourself and others. But what does it look like on the path? Because I knew that once I started my financial independence journey, I didn't want to put off living my life, and I didn't want to put off enjoying it until I reached the number, because then it felt like I was doing what people were doing when they waited to retire. And our time is so precious here on this earth, and we never know when our time will be up, right. And so reframing it as not just a destination, but the journey is important, because then we can find ways to enjoy ourselves on the journey that it doesn't have to necessarily be a sacrifice, a deprivation, where you hate it, but it feels actually good doing the things you're doing, not because of necessarily the money, but because you are developing a growth mindset. You are developing skills and meeting people and doing things you never even thought were available to you. I think that is a true benefit of embarking on the journey. It's not just that number at the end or the 1015, 20 years out, it's actually who you become every single day as you challenge yourself to do something different. This is why I talk about financial freedom on the way to financial independence. Because I do believe you can still be in debt, that you can just be starting out investing, but still feel a sense of security and still feel autonomy, even if you're working in a job that you don't love, I do feel like you can create that for yourself and empower yourself to live a good life on the path so that financial freedom, the benefits of having choice and options, those are things available to you right now when you empower yourself as you evolve. So here are my closing thoughts. So is financial independence a fool's errand? I know I just like listed a whole bunch of reasons why it's hard and why it is going to be a challenge, but I do truly feel that we are on the journey, whether we know it or not, meaning you're on it. You need money anyway. You need money to live where you live, to eat, to pay your bills, to enjoy your life. You do need money. And as you know, because you've been living on this earth for a bit now, if you don't know how to manage it and use it in a way that fuels your life, then things. Can be very hard. It's important that why not? Because, God willing, you'll be here years from now. Why not just get on the path and intentionally start the steps to living a better financial life? Because that financial freedom that you want to experience, the independence you want to achieve all that's gonna happen by doing all this work, which feels like a lot of work, but then improves your life and who you are as a person. So I don't think that this is the fool's errand. I believe everyone should embark on this journey, because it's such a big goal. It's such an audacious goal. I call it the moon goal. It's like shoot for the moon. I want to reach financial independence in 15 years. With that mindset, you have to put in some work and really evaluate where you are now, and so you can't help but get into a better place. Whether you reach financial independence in 15 years or not, you will be in a better place for starting if you didn't start. So I do believe that this is a worthwhile goal that everyone should embark upon because of who you become, what you discover about yourself and your life as you embark upon it. And remember the real goal? Yes, I know we want to have the external benefits, we want to have the money. We want to be able to be able to quit our jobs and do what we want, but the real goal for me is for you to bring those benefits into your life today. And so how do you do that? How do you feel abundant, even if maybe there are circumstances that are not exactly where you want them. So this is my encouragement to you to continue to intentionally embark and continue on the journey. I know it's not always easy, especially if you don't really have a lot of people in real life that understand it, but know that you can create your own path. You can achieve the life you want, maybe an even totally different life you can't even an imagine now, but it's there for you. So that's my call to action. I want you to continue on the journey. Thanks for checking out the podcast. Remember to check out the book your journey to financial freedom. You can get it at your journey to financial freedom.com. If you heard in the beginning of the episode, I have a book club. So you can start your own book club, and I'm giving you free resources to do that around topics in the book. And you can go to journey to launch com slash book club, and you'll get free guides that you can do by yourself, or you can rally some family and friends, and they are discussion guides with takeaways and prompts to really help you with the concepts of the book and implementing it in your life. All right, until next week. Keep on journeying. Journeyers. Don't forget, you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this. And you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch.com/jump start.

If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcast, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple podcast, rate review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm at journey to launch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, and I love, love, love interacting with journeyers. There three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here, so show them some love for supporting your girl. Four, and last but not least, share this episode, this podcast, with a friend or family member or co worker, so that we can spread the message of Journey to launch. All right, that's it until next week. Keep on journeying. Journeyers. You.