Episode 480: What Full Financial Independence Actually Looks Like: Island Life, Time Freedom, and Living on Your Own Terms w/ Ericka Barnes

Ericka Barnes 0:02

And then we discovered the US territories, in my case the ones we looked at were Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands, which includes St. Croix, St. Thomas, St. John, and Water Island, which they feel like different countries, but you are technically a part of the US, so buying is really easy, because it's at least in the US Virgin Islands, you don't need a visa, you don't need a passport, so there's just so many advantages if people are looking to try living abroad.

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Intro 0:33

Welcome to the Journey to Launch podcast with your host, Jamila Souffrant, as a money expert who walks her talk. She helps brave juniors like you get out of debt, save, invest, and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in

Speaker 2 0:51

54321,

Jamila Souffrant 0:59

If you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to Journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. In the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned, and so much more. Also, whether you are an OG journeyer or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free Jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes to listen to, stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources, and so much more. You can go to Journey to launch.com/jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode. Hey, Journeyers, welcome to the Journey to Launch podcast. I'm really excited to catch up, yes, catch up with this week's guest, Erica Barnes, formerly Erica Grant, who was on episode 125 of the podcast back in 2019 So it's been a few years, but Erica was originally on the show talking about her journey to becoming a millionaire from just making $35,000 a year, and now she's back because she's been financially independent. She retired in her 30s before returning to work to pursue what she calls chubby fire, and she stepped away from the workforce again in 2023 and now splits her time between Atlanta and the US Virgin Islands, where she practices island fire financial independence, retire early, and using geo arbitrage, and she reached out because she still listens to the podcast, which is pretty cool. When she heard a recent episode and said, "Hey, your listeners might want to hear an update about me, and what's been going on. So, I'm really excited to have you back on the show, Erica.

Ericka Barnes 2:46

Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Jamila Souffrant 2:49

Yeah, so for those who are unaware, who have not heard that episode where you first came on, let's just do a back story of where you're, you're from, your origin story into reaching financial freedom.

Ericka Barnes 3:04

Sure, so I grew up standard middle class African American family, was an English major in college, and I think we talked about that a lot on the last conversation. How I started off making a very low salary, $35,000 a year, living in New York City, and really struggling and hustling, and trying to figure out how I could make more money and transition to a more quantitative field, market research, and my income increased exponentially when I retired this last time, I was making over $250,000 a year as an English major, so I never thought that I would get to from 35,000 to that, and also reach fire, and for me the journey was largely real estate index funds, and just being really frugal were basically the ways that I reached fire, right,

Jamila Souffrant 4:00

and so I think, yes, I will link that first episode in the show notes, so people can get a deeper understanding. We're still gonna go through, I think, what can be helpful to anyone who's just starting or wants some inspiration to some of the things that you did, but I know I remember talking about you increasing your income and career hacking in a way to, you know, maximize your earning potential, and I just think it really shows like a roadmap of even if you do have a degree in which maybe traditionally you wouldn't earn as much, that there are ways to figure out a career path that works, and then maximize, which I think this is just like a thing, income, increasing your income is so important on the journey, and then utilizing it right. So, let's maybe talk a little bit about that, because you were able to, like you said, buy real estate index funds, which we should explain and talk about to help you reach your goals. So, let's maybe jump into what that looks like, or what it. Look like to help you reach financial independence.

Ericka Barnes 5:02

Sure, so going back to early 2000s I was an English major, graduated thinking I wanted to be a journalist, started off making 35,000 and quickly realized I was not going to see a lot of income trajectory on that more qualitative path, and so I started to look around the company I was in, which was a very large media company, and saw people on the business side of the industry were making more money, and their jobs were pretty interesting as well, and so I met someone just by networking at the company, we went, I was at, like, one of the, you know, they'll have like talks, or back then they did a lot more professional development stuff for employees than they do now at companies, but it was one of those professional development type workshops. Happened to be sitting next to a woman who was the research manager for Essence magazine, which, as a black woman growing up in America, that's like anyone's dream job. So I was geeked out that she worked at Essence, and then when she started telling me about her job, which is like this beautiful blend of qualitative and quantitative skills, you know, running statistical analysis and knowing everything about their readers, but also taking readers out to dinner and figuring out what they wanted more of in the magazine, and then feeding that information back to the editors. So, long story short, she and I became friends, and eventually a research assistant role opened up supporting her and a few other magazines within the organization, and she got me an interview, and I made that transition within the company, and that little move dropped my salary 10 $15,000 just that one move internally, and then while I was there, I picked up more quantitative skills that I hadn't had before, because I hadn't taken a single math class in college, and now I was in a role, especially starting out in market research, where you're doing a lot of number crunching and statistical analysis, and looking at huge data tables, and so I learned on the job how to do all that stuff, and then transitioned to an external role that jumped my salary up again, and within probably five years of making the transition to market research, I went from 35,000 to making six figures, just by making that little tweak of adding more and more quantitative elements to my skill set, and for me, that I think is a key to increasing your income in a lot of fields is just the more hard skills you can have, quantifiable skills, they tend to be higher paid, and so that's kind of how I increase my income,

Jamila Souffrant 7:32

right? And I love just, and again, we talked about this in the original episode, but just to highlight the soft skills that are important to, you know, being able to network, but you created a friendship with this person, or a rapport where you had to speak up, and you know, be curious, and you're inquisitive about something else outside of what you're doing, which helps in so tremendously in the opportunities that you don't even know exist yet, but it's just being open and being present and seizing the moment when it's in front of you,

Ericka Barnes 8:01

absolutely, and being willing to talk to people, because it's so scary, especially now that we are so much behind screens, but like, show up for those events, network with people, ask them what they do, and then follow up, because you just never know what we're at a lead, like, for me, that sitting next to this random woman led to a career that was 20 years long, and I'm still friendly with her to this day, so you just never know who you're going to be sitting next to,

Jamila Souffrant 8:25

right? And also to highlight, as you were making more money, and you didn't increase your expenses, or at least spend it on a bunch of liabilities, you were investing in index funds and buying real estate, right.

Ericka Barnes 8:37

Good point, because I actually did not discover index funds until much later in my journey, so initially real estate was kind of like my first light bulb moment about, oh, wow, this is a great way to make extra income, because I was able to buy a two-bedroom co-op in Harlem, and a co-op is like the New York version of a condo, and so by renting out that second bedroom I was generating some income, offsetting my mortgage, and I kind of got addicted to that. I'm like, wow, this is great, I don't have to do anything, and I'm making money basically in my sleep on this additional bedroom. And then when I moved from New York, I ended up renting out that whole unit, and I was cash flowing like over $1,000 a month, and it was very easy, because it was a low maintenance type of setup, because they had already a superintendent who took care of all the maintenance stuff, and it was a newer building, so that first real estate was really where I was able to supplement my income, and then in my early 30s I would say after I had actually lean fired in 2015 I discovered index funds by listening to podcasts like yours and Afford Anything, and a few other podcasts. I kept hearing wealthy people talking about index funds and had no idea what they were, so I was like, I need to figure out what the heck index funds are, because every rich person seems to be investing in them and. So it took me about two years to figure out what they were, which are mutual funds, basically, that you are buying a piece of every company available on whatever index you choose, and I did mainly s5&P 100 or kind of total market stock index funds, so I'm buying a little piece of every company that's publicly sold and very safe investment and great returns, and now I'm kind of shifting my investment where I had been much more heavily real estate, seeing just how easy and dependable index fund investing has been. I've been slowly transitioning away from real estate and more into index fund investing,

Jamila Souffrant 10:39

right? And I'm glad you kind of gave that definition of index fund because it is something I also discovered, and is where I heavily invest in so many people within the community, or people who are want the reliable way of reaching financial freedom and becoming a millionaire, and so I also have a couple episodes with JL Collins, who talks about and explains index funds more in depth. The simple path to wealth is a very popular book he wrote, and he's been featured on the podcast. So, we'll link that in the show notes for anyone who is interested on this low fund, so low cost in terms of it's not actively managed, so very like you said, reliable flows with the market, because it is the market, the index that you're investing in to wealth. Okay, so I want to kind of talk about the timeline. So, you came on the podcast in 2019 right before the pandemic.

Ericka Barnes 11:31

Yes,

Jamila Souffrant 11:32

you mentioned Lean Fire. We're going to probably get into that more, but tell me the timeline. So, 2019 you came on the podcast, where were you financially at that point, remind us if you were like half fired or partly fired, and then where you are now, and then we'll go into the details.

Ericka Barnes 11:50

Okay, so going back seven years, in 2019 or roughly, I considered myself financially independent at that point. So, in 2015 I had lean fired, I was in a horrible job, and we just, my then husband and I just bare boned it, and I stepped away from work in 2015 but it was very lean. It was lean, I'll just put it that way. But I did not have to work if I didn't want to.

Jamila Souffrant 12:13

Let's just describe that really quickly, because I just feel like someone might be listening that doesn't understand, like lean fire. So, what is lean fire?

Ericka Barnes 12:20

So, lean fire, the way I understand it, is that you are technically financially independent because your passive income is more than your expenses, but your expenses are pretty low. For example, our mortgage was like $750 a month. I don't think we had any car payments, so the expenses we had to cover were pretty minimal. And then he was a commercial airline pilot, so we flew for free, so we didn't need a ton to be able to not have to work, or for me to not have to work and consider myself fire, if that makes sense. So, to me, lean fire means you have enough passive income to cover your expenses, but the expenses are lower, so maybe like 40,000 a year in passive income to maybe 60 is considered lean fire. Would you agree, Jamila? Yeah,

Jamila Souffrant 13:06

right. Yeah, I agree. I think you know it's like dependent on, I call like in my work and book, like your guac level of expenses, and so the lower your guac level, the lower you need to spend, which is the less money you need to bring in, and so sometimes people make that sacrifice, like they'd rather not work or pull back, and they have to also pull back their expenses, or they already maybe enjoy a lean, lean life for spending less, so it's not as bad, versus if you want to spend more or have more responsibilities and expenses, you might not be able to do that, so you were able to lean fire around that time, right.

Ericka Barnes 13:42

Yes, 2015 And then I got bored. I was not working for about six months. My then husband was still working, all my friends were working, and I hadn't done any of the mental preparation because I just hated my job and was like, I need, and I found fire and was like, okay, let's let me do this. So six months off, really praying, meditating, figuring out what I wanted to do, and I went back to work by choice, which was really amazing, because then I was able to choose a role that was kind of a risk but turned out to be amazing. I moved into a tech sales role, but still within the market research industry, and I absolutely loved that job, and I made a ton of money. It was just like such a great experience when you can choose work from not a place of desperation, or I need to pay my bills, but this sounds interesting. Let me see, and it's great. It pays me six figures as well. It was more of that situation, so I did that for seven years I was back working towards Chubby Fire, and by the time I spoke to you in 2019 I would say we were traditional financial independence ready. So I was at that point a millionaire, and then some had multiple rental properties, I think seven or eight rental units. That were cash flowing and mostly paid off. Our primary residence was paid off, so really was working by choice at that point. And then 2020 happened, and my life basically, like a lot of people, just exploded. Like I went from the top performer in the company, literally, my the CEO was blasting my picture at the all hands meeting in January 2020 and I was furloughed from my job by March, and then I also was going through a divorce, and so many things kind of just fell apart. So I was financially independent, but I was navigating, like, oh wow, now I don't have a job, and now I have to figure out health insurance. So it was quite 2020 was really a wake-up call, but it felt like almost like a fire drill, like, oh, wow, I everything I prepared for, like, having all these reserves, having a prenup, all of these things literally saved my life financially and emotionally in 2020 because I had the fire movement had helped me lay a groundwork that protected me, and so I was fine. I was unemployed and looking for a job. It was actually a really good time to find a job, so I got a great job that I also loved, you know. Before my severance and unemployment even ran out, went back to work voluntarily, and did that until 2023 when I now at Chubby Fired, and so, so different than what I experienced in 2015 because this time I'd done the work, I really prayed and meditated and visualized exactly what I wanted each day to look like. My husband retired in 2023 as well, so I had a partner through all of it. So, Chubby Fire is really nice,

Jamila Souffrant 16:39

right? Okay, so I want to break down or go back a little bit.

Ericka Barnes 16:43

Yeah, that was a lot.

Jamila Souffrant 16:44

Yeah, no, but it's so good. So you talk 2020 very big transitional year, a lot happens. You mentioned a prenup, so you got divorced and then remarried, but I think the prenup that you had.. I don't know if you mentioned this in the original episode.

Ericka Barnes 16:59

Yeah, yeah, so we just on a probably because I was listening to podcasts like yours and other ones as I was preparing to get married. The topic of a prenup came up because I had this place in New York, he had some things that he wanted to protect, and so we were both fully like, yeah, let's do that, and I'm so grateful that I did, because it just made the divorce process so much less messy, even though it's still a horrible and painful situation. We both had already written out how we were going to split things up, and we stuck to that. There were a few variations, obviously, because there were a couple things that we hadn't even thought of, you know, to put in there, but we managed everything ourselves. We wrote our paperwork ourselves, and it was very mostly amicable, you know, and nobody ended up, you know, out on the street with nothing. Everybody, you know, I feel like having a prenup or a postnup is just such a great way to, you never want your marriage to end, or you, you would hope that it doesn't end, but it's kind of like that reassurance that at least we have a guide map for how we're going to handle things, emotions aside, and it really does help give you something to anchor yourself to during a difficult time,

Jamila Souffrant 18:10

right? Right. And talk about, like, becoming or having the tools before you need them, then when you're ready to use them, there you can take it out your toolbox. The other thing that stood out to me is like your, your need or your want to work, and it sounds like when you first lean fired, you said it already that you just didn't have, maybe feel like you had a purpose or a vision or knew what you wanted to do, and now when you shall be fired in 2023 which I'm assuming you then you stepped away from a job, like you quit your job.

Ericka Barnes 18:39

Yes. Well, I actually, I got laid off again, but this time I was happy about it,

Jamila Souffrant 18:44

right? Because I was going to say, why did you still want to work if you had enough money? Because I know someone's listening, like, listen, if I have enough money, even if it's lean money, lean fire, just enough, I don't, why I don't want to work, I want to relax.

Ericka Barnes 18:57

That's a great question. I think what I discovered when I lean fired, 2015 I'm early to mid 30s, I guess mid 30s. All my friends were still working, my then husband was still working. It just was lonely, like I hadn't built a community, and I found myself recreating work type situations, like I was volunteering with a local nonprofit, but I was like, I'll be here Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 10 to six, you know, and then I'm like, wait a second, I'm just like recreating a job, like I just.. I hadn't done enough work on myself, and really, I don't know, I just feel like you have to do some internal work to have a successful early retirement when everyone around you is still working, and I think the difference now is that a my partner is also, he retired as well, so you have like a built-in buddy to do stuff with, and then also now, and I'm sure we'll touch on this. I live between Atlanta and the US Virgin Islands, and in St. Croix, where I live, there are a ton of retired people, a ton of early retired or work-optional people like me. One here is trying to work, you know, hard, even if they do have a job, so there's always people to hang out with, and it's just a different environment.

Jamila Souffrant 20:07

Yeah,

Ericka Barnes 20:08

but why I decided to work, I don't know if that answered your question. No,

Jamila Souffrant 20:11

it does, because it's, I think, it's one of those things where people are just like, well, I don't, I'll figure that out after, and just like the idea that money fixes everything, and it doesn't like whatever internal things you have going on, you, you can't run from it, no matter how much you like, it will eventually catch up to you. So the idea of community is also so important, because even for regular retirees, if it's just this idea of feeling that you don't have community or a purpose that kind of drives people stir crazy, and the internal unhappiness is, is there.

Ericka Barnes 20:45

Yep, you got to do that internal work, and maybe some people can get away with just, you know, figuring it out. But I just, I got bored, and I'm like, I may as well, if I'm going to be volunteering, like I have a job, I may as well make money. But this time I don't feel any of that, like I've never been bored. I love every minute of not having to like, even this. I'm like, conference call. Oh my god, I haven't had to do a video conference in like five, you know? I'm just so out of the loop of like doing professional type stuff now, and I'm totally, I'm at peace with that, and loving it, you know. So it's a different, different ball game. Yeah.

Jamila Souffrant 21:20

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Ericka Barnes 23:12

Great question. It's a little bit of both. So I still have a rental portfolio of about six or seven rental units, and then my now husband is retired military, so he does have a pension, and then we have, you know, our index funds and those savings, so most of our expenses are fully paid for by pension, his pension, and the rental properties that I had before we got married, and then the ones we've acquired since we got married, and then every once in a while, if we want, I consider it kind of like icing on the cake, for example, we added a pool to our house here in the Virgin Islands, and that came from interest from the index funds, so it really felt free, because, like, it didn't cost us anything, because it was just like, okay, the market's up, we'll just scrape a little bit off and put that into the pool fund, so we kind of use that as kind of our backup and supplementary funding, and it's been working well so far, because I've been shocked by how we pay less tax now that we don't have W-2 employment, even though we are spending probably about the same amount, and technically making about the same amount, but just because of the way the US tax code is, real estate income, capital gains income, and pensions are taxed very differently and lower. So it's, it's been eye-opening. Actually, I'm like, "Oh, wow, I should have done this a while ago, because you basically live tax-free when you're living that way or this way, I should say,

Jamila Souffrant 24:44

right. So, buying a place, what? How did that look like in terms of in the Virgin Islands? Did you, because I think what happened is you listened to the episode where I interviewed the Airbnb owner in Jamaica.

Ericka Barnes 25:00

Yes, yes,

Jamila Souffrant 25:01

so you emailed me. You're like, you know, I have some updates for you. So, let's talk about maybe buying that place in Virgin Islands, and what that process was like, and the opportunity cost, right? Why not just rent? Like, what were you guys thinking? We did that.

Ericka Barnes 25:15

Okay, so hearing her story reminded me of kind of the fact that she had talked about always wanting to live in the islands and have a place in a tropical location, and my husband and I had had similar dreams, and we were like mapping out what life after retirement looked like. On one of our earlier dates, he was like, "Oh, I've always dreamed of living in the islands, and I was like, "Me too, or live trying to live abroad, and so we explored several different islands and countries, kind of this geo arbitrage concept of maybe we could move somewhere less expensive or live there part of the year and see if we could offset costs. So we started interviewing islands and locations, Mexico, Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Belize, and then we discovered the US territories, which I think what struck me about the conversation with the woman in Jamaica, because a lot of the things she mentioned as complications you don't have to worry about when you buy in a US territory, so that's in my case the ones we looked at were Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands, which includes St. Croix, St. Thomas, St. John, and Water Island, which they feel like different countries, but you are technically a part of the US, so buying is really easy, because it's at least in the US Virgin Islands, there's the MLS, the same process for listing properties and buying and selling properties and doing rentals. You don't need a visa, you don't need a passport. I think when we first bought here was in 2022 so we were both still working remotely, and because it's technically part of the US, we could keep our remote jobs. So there's just so many advantages if people are looking to try, you know, geo arbitrage or living abroad, but maybe you have a remote job or you're afraid to take the plunge of like trying to deal with visas and passports. Check out a US territory, because the pricing is surprisingly reasonable.

Jamila Souffrant 27:06

I was going to ask you about that. Is it a pricing because it's the US territory? Is it like more expensive to buy or build than an island that's not associated with the US?

Ericka Barnes 27:16

So, from our research, it kind of all balances out, and it depends on the island, so St. Croix, the island that we live on, is the cheapest or the least expensive of the US Virgin Islands, and then Puerto Rico is probably about the same as St. Croix, depending on where you live in Puerto Rico, so San Juan, the major city, is going to be a bit more expensive, but if you're living a little bit like an hour or two away from the airport in Puerto Rico, I think the pricing is similar to St. Croix, maybe even cheaper, and just to give you an example, and people can judge if they think this is cheap or not, but you can get an ocean view beachfront condo here for 100,200 50,000 move-in ready with all the furniture, because everything is sold furnished here, so it's really to me that's surprisingly affordable for beachfront property in the US. And then you have that benefit of feeling like you're in the islands, it's, you know, black diaspora, African diaspora culture, so it feels really comfortable and familiar for me as a woman of color. And then it's also easy to get back and forth, there's a direct flight from Atlanta to St. Croix, so it's for us all of those things made it appealing, and then if for houses we decided to buy a house, I probably would have preferred to rent, but my husband was just like, "No, I really want to buy something, and it was that time when interest rates were really low, but you could still get pretty good deals here. I'm glad we bought, but most of the houses here in the Virgin Islands have attached apartments or casitas, so it's very easy to house hack. We have a tenant who lives downstairs from us, she's been here about three years now, and her rent basically offsets our entire mortgage, and that's kind of a unique feature of the Virgin Islands that surprised me, versus other places we looked at, that most of the houses do have places for rental incomes, or if you wanted to have extended family living together, so it makes it a really great real estate investment from that perspective,

Jamila Souffrant 29:18

right? Right, and then the flight, like you said, you also split your time within Atlanta, right? So that is just perfect, that there's a dark flight.

Ericka Barnes 29:26

Yeah, it makes it very easy. It's like a three and a half hour flight from St. Croix to Atlanta, and St. Thomas is even better. That's the more well-known Virgin Island, US Virgin Island, and I think they have direct flights all over the country from mainland US to St. Thomas. St. Croix is a little trickier, because we, there's only, you know, maybe five or 10 cities in the mainland US that have direct flights to St. Croix, so most people would have to connect. We're just lucky that we live in Atlanta also, so it's really easy to get here.

Jamila Souffrant 29:57

And did you guys work, or work currently? Work with a financial advisor or a tax advisor to help you with just, you know, the paperwork and the filings that come along with this, this, all these things.

Ericka Barnes 30:09

We tried, like, I tried to work with Edward Jones' person way back when I first was reaching financial independence, and I felt like she wasn't adding any value and just charging a commission, and then I do our taxes, but I did meet with a local accountant here in the Virgin Islands the first year, because it was - it's very complicated in that a lot of stuff is not online, so you kind of have to learn. For example, I was like hiking on April 15, the first year we lived here and just happened to be hiking with some other ladies who were like, "Oh, we have to go to the tax office and get our tax taxes stamped, and I was like, "Say, what? Like, it's not on line anywhere, but it's like just a known thing here that if you don't get your taxes stamped, it's like you didn't file. And then in two years, when they're like, "Okay, you need to bring your tax forms in, if they don't have that stamp, they basically act like, how do we know this is real? It's very like some things are like stuck in the 80s, basically. So I sat down for like two or three hours with a local accountant, and she was so generous with her time, and walked me through this. Is how you know she's like, I can do it for you, but I have a wait list six months long, I see you have filed these past years. Your stuff looks good. I'll walk you through what you need to do. And it wasn't that complicated. I just had to add an extra form for people who split between Virgin Islands and mainland US. It's similar to living in, like, Texas or Florida, because there's no income tax, there's no territory income tax. We're not a state, but it's kind of like similar, so there's no territory income tax, there's no sales tax, the very property taxes are super low, so it's very tax friendly environment, especially if you're an entrepreneur,

Jamila Souffrant 31:54

right? Right. Well, so now that you are financially independent, what? So, what do you do? How do you spend your time? What does your day look like now?

Ericka Barnes 32:04

My day now, when we're in St. Croix, is a lot of time outside, which is so different than when I was, you know, working. I would be inside all day on my computer on Zoom meetings, and now I wake up like this morning. I think I played pickleball every morning this week, or I'm hiking or swimming. We did build a pool, so I played pickleball. Then I went and jumped in the pool and swam some laps and lounged around. So it's like a very outdoor lifestyle, at least on St. Croix. I grew up in an apartment building. I never grew anything in my life, but here, because food is more expensive, a lot of people have gardens and have chickens. It sounds crazy, but that's just so we don't have chickens, but I do have a garden, and I'll tend the garden. Sometimes I'll go to brunch or happy hour. It's just me here right now, so it's a bit more solitary, me just like pickleball, you know, going to the beach. But when my husband is here, we do a lot of stuff around the house, so yeah, it's like just a very joyful outdoor existence, very healthy, yeah. And then when I'm in Atlanta, it's more I'm trying to get back more healthy when I'm there, but I tend to be more like happy hour and brunch, and the things that cost money and add inches to my waistline is more of my Atlanta lifestyle. But I love both places very much.

Jamila Souffrant 33:22

And when you're in Atlanta, it's one of you staying at one of your places.

Ericka Barnes 33:25

Yeah, so we have a house. My husband had a house before we got married that we've kept as kind of our home base in Atlanta, and then our house in St. Croix. There's like I said, the main house is upstairs, and then we have an apartment downstairs that's rented year round. And then we rent out this year, for the first time, we're going to rent out our upstairs main house, just so it's a three bedroom, two bath. We're going to lock off our primary bedroom and bathroom and rent out the two bedroom, one bath, and the pool, you know, so they'll have two bedroom, one bath, and a pool for the summer, because we prefer to be not here during hurricane season, but a lot of people do like to come here for summer, so we're renting it out to someone else for the summer.

Jamila Souffrant 34:04

Got it? Got it. Now, just in, just curious, because in general, was your partner your current husband? Did he know about the fire community, or about this lifestyle, or was he already kind of fiscally responsible, right? Because I just find that, like, it seems like it's really good to have a partner who's on the same page,

Ericka Barnes 34:24

yeah,

Jamila Souffrant 34:25

with you, where you can like build together and kind of have that lifestyle together, whereas like sometimes that's not, you're not connected in that way with a partner, which makes things harder.

Ericka Barnes 34:33

That's a really great point, and that's one of the things when I made the decision to get divorced, I was kind of resigned, like, oh, I'm probably going to be alone, like it's going to be impossible to find somebody who's aligned in terms of values and finances and everything, and I was pleasantly surprised by how many people are out there who do have their stuff together. So, he's someone he knew nothing about the fire movement and had never heard of it, but he was already five, if that makes sense. Months, because he was in the military for over 20 years, so I remember on one of our first dates he was talking about, oh, I'm so tired of the grind of being in the military, and it's, you know, it's really a tough, tough lifestyle, and he mentioned something about a pension and how much he'd be making, which probably isn't appropriate for an early date, but we from jump, we're just kind of like, we go together like we just click so early, and I was like, "Oh, that means you're fine, and you know, if you quit work right now, you're already financially independent. And I explained to him how people will save up for years to have x amount of money, so that they can have a guaranteed income of, let's say, $60,000 a year, which is what a military pension does for most people, and he was like, "Oh, really? I assumed I'd have to keep working, but so I guess that's a very long-winded way of saying he did not know about Phi, but he was Fi, you know what I mean,

Jamila Souffrant 35:52

right? Right? No, that's good, and shows you sometimes the career choices that you can make. So I often think about, like, teachers, if they stay within the system like that, like my husband's a teacher, so nothing blows up in terms of or goes crazy with pensions, you know. P also will get something where it will help sustain, and he can be retired earlier or before, like a standard age, like in his 50s, which is helpful when I think about like our life together, as I think about retirement and early retirement with everything that you guys have built together, or what you're doing, I should say, are there sacrifices that you still have to make, considering that you're financially independent. So, like, when I think about the levels of reaching financial independence, and I call it like five stages that you go through, the ultimate stage is complete financial independence, but then do you find that there's some just, you know, you still have to be careful of how you spend. Are there things that you want to do that you can't do? I know you said you know you were able to put a pool in still, but do you find still there's a limit, like you can't just do all things you want to do yet, or there's things you just don't want to do anymore because you like your lifestyle.

Ericka Barnes 37:00

I haven't thought about that. I would say the frugality in me is what limits us now, like we're at a point where there's very little we can afford to do. For example, he's at a point where he's like, I only am going to fly first class, which I'm still like, what, like that seems like such a waste of money, although I love flying first class, but for him it's like we can afford to do it, and that's how it's comfortable for me to travel. But then other things, like for our house in St. Croix, electricity is really expensive here, and we've been debating putting in solar. We could absolutely afford to just pay cash to put in solar, but just the cheapo in me is like, oh gosh, I don't know if I want to drop 30 grand, 40 grand on something that may or may not. I just hear all these horror stories about systems breaking down or what happens when you have to replace your roof. So, I don't know, like, I don't think there's very much we can't afford to do. It's just more our own mental.. my, I would say me, I'm more of the limiter of like feeling like we can't afford stuff when in reality we, we can, but we're not flying on private jets or anything like that, but I think for a comfortable lifestyle, there's nothing that I feel like we can't accommodate at this point,

Jamila Souffrant 38:13

right? Like it meets your true desired level of living, it's not that you feel like you're living like a lean fire,

Ericka Barnes 38:21

not at all

Jamila Souffrant 38:21

right. It feels like this is appropriate, which I think is so important for people to understand, like where they want to be and how they want to live, because if you really need to do the flights and the nice cars, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just understanding what that takes, like the money that takes, or how much longer you have to work to be able to support that lifestyle in early retirement, or while you're working, still

Ericka Barnes 38:43

absolutely, yeah, because for me it was basically another seven years of work to get from lean, I think what most people consider lean to chubby, which you know, as long as the work was enjoyable, and it was, I didn't mind that.

Jamila Souffrant 38:56

Right now, one thing I feel like I just feel like I'd be remiss not to bring up, and you can like say, "Oh, you know, you don't, you want to go there? But children,

Ericka Barnes 39:05

yes.

Jamila Souffrant 39:05

Do you feel like I'm assuming you don't have any? I don't know. We don't think

Ericka Barnes 39:09

about

Jamila Souffrant 39:10

this.

Ericka Barnes 39:11

No, we didn't. Yeah,

Jamila Souffrant 39:12

but so, because I just feel like I'm listening to you, right, as like a mom of three, and I know there are parents who do this, who have been able to travel or kind of do your arbitrage and live a different lifestyle than maybe the traditional, like, for me, Brooklyn, New York, kind of, we own a home and all our kids are in traditional activities, kind of thing. Do you think? Well, yeah, let's talk about, like, if you were to have children, how that would look different, like, would you still do the same things, or how would your lifestyle look, you think..

Ericka Barnes 39:41

ooh, good question. So, I am child-free by choice, but I do have bonus children through marriage, but my bonus kids are adults, young adults, so 22 and 26 So, they come and visit us in St. Croix. They can obviously come and stay with us in Atlanta, but we didn't have to. So, that's.. I'm so glad you brought that. Jamila, because that's a huge, like, acknowledge this. Most people have kids, or a lot of people have kids, and I do not, and that has given me a lot of freedom and flexibility. So, this lifestyle would be, I think, really difficult with young kids, unless you're homeschooling, just because we go back and forth. I guess you could do it if, for example, you lived in the mainland during the year, or vice versa, you know, lived in one place during the year, and then just came kind of like how we do was work in Atlanta during the summer hurricane months, and then in St. Croix most of the rest of the year. So, with children, you could do that, and you know, there's good schools here, so I think it's doable. I had a good friend, one of the first friends I met when I moved here, actually moved here from Arizona with her son, who was a freshman in high school, and he went to high school here, loved it, picked up an accent and everything. So people do it all the time. Yeah, they move with their kids, and then they move back. And nice thing about Virgin Islands, I don't know if Puerto Rico is this way, but if you graduate from high school in the Virgin Islands, you get a free four year ride to the local university, which is University of the Virgin Islands, which is the only HBCU in the Caribbean. So it's kind of like a cool little hack, like if somebody, again, geo arbitrage, if you think your kid might want to go to an HBCU, have them move to a Virgin Islands, you know, St. Croix, St. Thomas, whatever, and have them graduate high school,

Jamila Souffrant 41:23

right? Isn't that the college that BT show? What was that BT show called back in the day? College Hill.

Ericka Barnes 41:29

Oh, was that set at UVI? Oh,

Jamila Souffrant 41:32

yeah. Well, yet you're saying that. I'm thinking, I'm like, I mean, I used to watch it, but I don't.. my memory is just shot.

Ericka Barnes 41:37

I watched it too,

Jamila Souffrant 41:38

but they were in the islands, so I think. And then you said HBCU, now I gotta do my research, but I'm sure someone listening is like, yeah,

Ericka Barnes 41:44

yeah, I'm gonna have to do my research too, because that was before I'd even heard of if St. Croix, yeah, they were probably at the St. Thomas campus, oh, but I'm gonna look into that, College Hill, I did not realize,

Jamila Souffrant 41:54

okay, that's pretty interesting, that's cool, all right, I mean, I love hearing like your story, I think it's going to be so inspiring to others, but before we go, I do want to talk a little bit, or have you talk about some of the projects that you're working on, because so just to go back a little bit, when I remember interviewing you, and I used to love interviewing journeyers like you, who you were just, you know, a regular person doing like really extraordinary things, like a super, I call it like a financial superhero, like you don't know, like on the outside, if someone didn't know you, they're like, oh, that just looks like an average, you know, working person, and then you're doing all these great things, and so I just remember having that conversation with you, and being happy to have met you, and bring you on, brought you on the show to share your story, like as an average person being a journeyer, you know, yes, yes, and so I feel like now that you have even made more strides in progress. Thank you for coming back on and sharing more, but you are working on a couple of things or projects which I think are inspiring to people or might help people. So, let's talk about those things.

Ericka Barnes 43:00

Yeah, so again, I was an English major, and really had put aside, and always dreamed of being a writer, honestly, but I had forgotten, and so when I retired, and I was back home in Minneapolis, where I grew up, and my best, best, better than best friend, we were having coffee, and she's like, so are you writing, and I get chills, think just saying it, because it hadn't even occurred to me to do anything creative, because I had squashed that side of me so completely I had forgotten even that I'd ever had aspirations to write. And then another friend, my first friend who visited us in St. Croix, she walked into our house, and she's like, she, and she knew nothing about my history as an avid reader, writer, et cetera, and was like this would be a great place to write a book, and I kind of shrugged it off. And then all of a sudden, like, I just kept having these ideas for books. So I wrote my first fiction novel, called Island Apocalypse. It should be coming out by the end of this year, and literally just like this story was just kind of tugging at me, and I have plenty of time, and one of the ladies I hike with started a writing group, so I have a writing group here on the island that I meet with once a month to get feedback, and we workshop together, so it's just been a really cool, I guess, return to like this side of me that I completely forgotten, which was this creative writing side, and then I also, I have a nonfiction kind of booklet called Quit When You've Won the Game, that's about kind of the financial independence journey, and my path to fire. Again, I'm not trying to make money, I just want to tell these stories because they're in my head and on my heart, so it's like a fun way to do something creative, share my story, and if one person reads it, cool. If no one reads it, cool, but at least I'm like, oh, I accomplished a goal that I had had as a girl and kind of forgotten about, which was to write a book,

Jamila Souffrant 44:56

right. Thank you for sharing. I think that's so beautiful, because. You originally, like you said, you wanted to be a writer, and then you got into just the real world, and I think that happens for so many of us, where if we could really maybe just do what we wanted to do, not necessarily do nothing, but something creative, like most of us, I think we all creatives in a certain way, like we create, but then life happens, and bills happen, and you realize, okay, I don't know if I can pay my bills with this, these creative efforts and pursuits, and so you being able to go back to that eventually, because of the financial independence and freedom you've achieved, is the goal, and I do think, let's let me talk about, because there might be someone who has that on their heart right now, to you know, they have this creative thing in them, they want to get out, but they're working still, they don't have time as a, as an asset to use. What would you say, or what advice would you give them to help them either be able to to do it as they work, or to find a way to do it instead of the work they're doing.

Ericka Barnes 46:03

Oh, that's a tough one, Jamila, because I remember being when I was working, like I didn't have the mental capacity for this, for that creative, like I'll literally just spend hours like brainstorming, like, ooh, what should this character do next? Like, I think you can do it when you're working, maybe find a room in your house where you feel inspired or a place around your neighborhood, maybe it's a park or a coffee shop, and then set aside, even if it's just one hour a week, where you're like, this is going to be my time to be creative, and then go to that space and give yourself a goal of I'm going to write 3000 words, or I'm going to brainstorm every story idea I've ever had, or whatever's on your heart creatively. I'm going to draw, I'm going to paint, and just setting aside that time, I think, is because that's to your point about, like, phi gave me the time to explore this stuff. I think anyone can carve out time, you just have to be more intentional, you know, when you have a job and kids and the normal hectic stuff that I think, when you're working full time, can distract you from like the little creative whisperings that you really need time and space for them to be heard,

Jamila Souffrant 47:14

right? And also, just to, if you are in this moment, I do think there is a season to work and to accumulate and to pay off and to grind a bit, and sometimes, like, you want the relief and the relaxation and the fruits right now, even though you haven't done the work yet, and so I think there's also not society, we were, I think, at this place where we especially, I see it in just my younger siblings or family members, and even my kids, as young as they are, this, you know, this idea of they want it now, and yes, life should be enjoyed, but even how you were able to go from 35,000 a year to, you know, making a couple 100 1000s to then using that money to build real assets, that took work and time, and so I just feel like, yes, it's great to be able to be in the place you're at, but to understand it took work to get there, and sometimes you're, if you're listening to this, you might be in that working stage where you have to grind a little bit to get to this place where you ultimately want to be.

Ericka Barnes 48:14

Absolutely, yeah, and I think it makes it sweeter when you know you've lived in the studio and done the grinding, and now you have a house with a pool and an ocean view, versus if you're trying to get that stuff before you can afford it, you're, you're not going to enjoy it, because you're going to be so stressed out, and then it's like, what do you have to look forward to? So, I, I'm totally with you, of like, there's stages and phases to this, and people need to just take their time and go through them,

Jamila Souffrant 48:41

right? Right. Oh my gosh. So, Erica, thank you so much for coming back on the show. I'd like you to tell everyone, maybe where they can look out for the projects that you have coming out, and anything else you may want to just leave journeyers with.

Ericka Barnes 48:54

Sure, so the two books that I'm working on, Island Apocalypse, is a work of fiction set in a, I guess you could say fictional Caribbean islands, like what would happen if there's a major war breaks out and you're on an island and a little bit of romance, little bit of action, and then the other project is quit when you've won the game, which is like I said, kind of all about financial independence and a recap of my journey to Phi, and tips and tricks, and things I've learned along the way. Both will be available on Amazon by the end of this year, likely in bookstores as well. I clearly have not done anything like this before, so I don't have a PR apparatus or anything set up, but I guess you can link my Instagram on the notes, and then I will have links to where people can find out more about the books, and I'm always looking for beta readers, so if anybody wants to reach out, I'm happy to share advanced copies and get feedback, because I'm still in, like, the final edit stage right now, so would love feedback on the project. Yes,

Jamila Souffrant 50:00

so it sounds like you're self-publishing, right?

Ericka Barnes 50:02

Yes, I've decided to self-publish. I might query, but I'm too impatient. I'm like, I just want to get it out. My goal is to get it out by the end of this year, and I think, and you know this, I'm sure, how long it's like a two, what, a two-year process for you?

Jamila Souffrant 50:16

Oh, it takes one. Yeah, when you do traditional publishing, it tends to take a quite a bit longer time,

Ericka Barnes 50:22

yeah, yeah. So I think I'm gonna just self-publish, but we'll see, we'll see. And because it's really just an act of creative love, not of, you know, I'm not trying to make money or anything on

Jamila Souffrant 50:36

it. Love that for you. Okay. So any last words, any maybe tips, encouragement for journeyers,

Ericka Barnes 50:42

just keep at it. Don't give up. It is possible. It feels like it's going to take forever, but it'll happen faster than you think. And you'll look up one day and be like, "Wow, I - everything I dreamed of has happened. Don't let setbacks feel like they're, you know destroyers, so divorce doesn't have to blow up your fire journey. You can make it through, you will make it through. Layoffs don't have to destroy your fire journey, like everything about this lifestyle prepares you, so that you can survive what would derail a lot of other people. So just keep at it, and don't give up, and be really intentional. Write out what you envision, what you want, because I do think our words create reality. So, write it out. What is your.. what do you want your day to look like after you retire? Where do you want to live? Who do you want to be with? What do you want to eat? Like, I got so detailed, and that's literally the life that I'm living now. And I think it's because I.. I wrote it out and took the time to visualize.

Jamila Souffrant 51:38

Powerful. Thank you so much again, Erica.

Ericka Barnes 51:41

Thank you, Jamila. Thanks for having me back.

Jamila Souffrant 51:44

Don't forget, you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to Journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this, and you can still grab your Jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to Journey to launch.com/jumpstart you if you want to support me and the podcast, and love the free content and information that you get here. Here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple Podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe, so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple Podcasts, rate, review, and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm at Journey to Launch on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and I love, love, love interacting with journeyers there. Three support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here, so show them some love for supporting your girl. Four, and last but not least, share this episode, this podcast with a friend or family member or coworker, so that we can spread the message of Journey to Launch. All right, that's it until next week. Keep on journeying, journeyers,

Unknown Speaker 53:08

you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai