Episode 477: How to Design a Life of Time Freedom Now & Not Wait for Retirement w/ Brian Herriot

Brian Herriot 0:02

Once you retired, or once you're on the beach, 100% of the time, you don't value it, because it's just life. You know, there's no contrast, like you need hard work in order to appreciate the time off. That's why I like the whole free timer concept, where you have these intense periods of work, and then you have the break, and you feel great about it, and then you're like, by the end of the break, you're like, let's go back to work.

Jamila Souffrant 0:22

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Speaker 1 0:23

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Intro 0:25

Welcome to the journey to launch podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant as a money expert who walks her talk. She helps brave journeyers like you, get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom.

Jamila Souffrant 0:52

If you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode in the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned, and so much more also, whether you are an OG journeyer or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes to listen to, stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources and so much more you can go to journey to launch.com/jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode. Hey, journeyers, welcome to the journey to launch podcast today. I have special guest Brian Harriet, who is an author, speaker, financial advisor and entrepreneurship coach. He offers a new and different take on wealth, building, lifestyle, design and retirement, and is the author of the upcoming book, time, freedom, rethink your work and money to create a life you love now. Brian is working towards a world where everyone has the time and support to define what success means to them and focuses on building character over building resumes. So welcome to the podcast. Brian,

Brian Herriot 2:09

thank you, Jamila, it's really great to be here.

Jamila Souffrant 2:12

Yeah, well, so when you sent me an email about just like your work and your book coming out, what really stuck out to me was your focus on time freedom, which I believe time is the most valuable resource, because it does not get renewed. It's limited. And while money is amazing to have, it's really all. I think most of what we want is just the ability to control our time, and not necessarily not work, but to control how we work, if we work in, what environments we work in. So I just think that this is very important work and things to talk about. So I want to, like, dive in to your concepts and how people can get time freedom. But before we do that, I kind of want to get more into your background so journeyers can learn about you and how you got to where you are. Like, what was your beginning journey like,

Brian Herriot 3:01

yeah. So I was born and raised in the Midwest, in Wisconsin, and I had a pretty standard, I would say, upbringing. I was very fortunate in that my parents did teach me about how to save and how to invest. And so I entered my adult working life. I was had an engineering degree, but I was in management consulting for much of my career, but I started saving in my retirement accounts right away, like you're supposed to. Fast forward a few years, I actually had the same situation that I think your husband had, where I went to work for UCSF, it's the medical center out here in San Francisco, and when I started, they told me that I had both a 401 K and a 457 that I could, like, double save to. And I thought I'd hit the jackpot. I think I read that about your husband as well, being able to do the same thing. So I just did that. Along the way, I got interested in the kind of the financial independence track way back in 1997 when I was graduating and starting to work, it was personal finance for dummies that I, you know, found all the Vanguard information, all the Boglehead type stuff. I was not called fire yet, but I was doing all those things and really pushing forward to try to do this early retirement thing. And in 2020 this was the year, you know, this was in January 2020 so just before covid, is when we finally had kind of cracked the $1 million savings mark. And it like was like, oh, you know, maybe we're getting kind of close sort of thing. And then, just then the covid crash hit and wiped out 35% of everything that I had. And I freaked out. I really did. I mean, I had, you know, been saving diligently through the great, you know, financial crisis and all of those sorts of things. But I think what happened to me is at that time, I kind of got close to. Thinking this is going to happen for us. And then when it didn't, I just so I didn't like sell everything right away. I did wait for it to come back a little bit, and then I sold it. So I actually locked in some losses, and had to come clean with my wife. And this is really what transformed my perspective. Is kind of in that moment. And I was sitting with my wife, and I told her that financial freedom would not be coming anytime soon, and I didn't know what to expect from her, but she actually, what she did is she posed a question, which was, you know, with this financial freedom, like, what would you do all day? And I really didn't have a good answer, because, you know, we have a son. He's 14 now, you know, at the time he was in middle school, it's not like we could just pick up and start, you know, living abroad and things like that. And so eventually I settled on, what I recognized was that I kind of liked working. I was as an entrepreneur, and I just, I just wanted to keep working, probably, but just a little bit less. So she's like, so you'd keep working, even though you'd be financially free. And I'm like, Duh, that was, like, the ah, you know, moment. And it was kind of in that moment where I'm like, what if, because I had, like, recalculated all my financial freedom numbers, and it was going to be another 20 years. So I was 45 at the time. 20 years is 65 I was doing all this stuff to, like, double my savings and do all this hard work, and I was going to retire at the same time as everybody else. It was like, what? So instead, I said, What if I could work for nine months and that could fund my lifestyle for a year? How soon Could I get to that point? And it was actually three years. And so that's where I had this transformation of, okay, well, you know, instead of saving all this money to have financial freedom to then have time freedom, what if I just flipped it a little bit and said, Let's just make my work ideal, and then have time freedom, because that's really what I want. And then, in the meantime, the I don't have anything against financial freedom, believe me, I just, I just don't, I just let that grow in the background, and then I can get that whenever I ultimately get to it. So that was, that was really my transition. Was what kind of happened in that moment in 2020,

Jamila Souffrant 7:12

great. Yeah. And I mean, that sounds very relatable in terms of the awakening of even if I do reach financial freedom, like what next, and then understanding that if you're able to work and do something you actually enjoy, while you have financial freedom, kind of growing in the background, you have a bit of security that allows you more flexibility and the ability To reap the benefits of financial independence, not everything. I say that too. Like, I'm not totally financially independent, but I've worked to a level where my work is flexible. So I find, like, I think everyone can get to work flexibility, you know, barring like, really extreme circumstances and other like things. But I do think financial independence where you never have to work again prior to standard retirement is a big goal, but I do think this, this area of work flexibility or time freedom is achievable for people depending on the factors they have in their life. So that's interesting. And then I guess just a couple clarifying questions was your wife, was her plan to also work or to retire early with you? Like, how did you guys navigate that together as you were starting?

Brian Herriot 8:27

Well, so my wife plays a huge role in this story. And if you don't mind me rewinding all the way back, but in 1999 actually yesterday, in 1999 27 years ago, my wife got a double lung transplant because she grew up with cystic fibrosis, which is a genetic disease that destroys her lungs to the point of getting new ones. And we were dating for two years at the time, and we went through this huge event, and she came out the other side, not without some worried and some complications, which I write about in my, kind of, my origin story of the book. But it's in that moment we said, Okay, we cannot wait to do the things that matter to us. And then, I don't know if it's society or just the way things happen all of a sudden, like within a couple years, I was right back at it, doing the corporate stuff, and she was working part part time, taking care of her health and dealing with insurance and all that, and we just got wrapped back up in the whole thing, even though we had had that experience that some people experience later in life, that kind of shakes them free and to doing things better. So even that's what's the crazy thing to me is even with that experience, I still was pulled back into the traditional, conventional way of doing things. One thing that she's always been really good at, for me is kind of the asking the why question. I don't know if it's a guy thing or if it's just a me thing, but I just I knew what I was supposed to do, and I put the blinders on and I did it. You know, work. Hard, safe, do this thing, and she's like, what, you know? Why? Why are you doing it? And so what happened was, what we relish is the because we're from Wisconsin, so we don't live in Wisconsin. Now, we live in California, but we love the North Woods of Wisconsin. It's where she's from, where you can water ski and fish and all the, you know, the beautiful water. And so we wanted to have a cabin in Wisconsin that we could go to in the summers. And it was after this 2020 experience when that happened. So, you know, in 2021 we bought this place. In 2022 we spent the summer there, but I worked remotely. And then in 2023 was the first summer when I actually did it, and I didn't have to work. But back to your to your point. By the end of that summer, I was ready to start doing something again, like, you know, making money and working. And I'm so glad that I discovered that then and not like after I scrimped and saved and sacrificed and then got fully financially free, only then to realize that I wanted to go back to work. So I just think your our approaches allow everyone to do this a little bit sooner, a little bit sooner,

Jamila Souffrant 11:05

right? And it sounds like you had someone who were on the same page with the timeline and helping you figure that out, which I think is like understated how important if you have a partner, that the partner, if they're on the journey with you, are you guys can come to a compromise how to get there

Brian Herriot 11:22

absolutely

Jamila Souffrant 11:24

so with that. So you worked for someone else. You were a employee, I believe, for how long? And then, when did you transfer to, then becoming an entrepreneur and making that time freedom switch?

Brian Herriot 11:34

Yeah, great question. So I, I came out of college and I went to work. I did work in consulting. So I did large consulting. So it was with Accenture was the name of the company I worked with for another five, six years with another midsize consulting firm. So I worked for about 14 years as an employee, as a consultant. In 2017 is when I decided to do the same work, but do it independently. And so I consider myself, I mean, I became a solo entrepreneur, but not with some new, crazy business idea. I was just doing what I was good at doing and but I did it for myself. I have since kind of grown that business to four other employees. That's, that's how I help kind of fund the downtime. You know, over the summer I was originally, I started that consulting just to pay the bills, because I, I mean, I've tried it all right? I tried the career save early. And then in 2017 I started a software company, and that was going to be my ticket, right? I was going to, like, grow it real big, and it was going to be a unicorn, and then I was going to sell it and retire early. Well, that flopped as well, but, but what happened was, while I was just working that pay the bills job, I realized that I actually loved what I had created for myself, because it was, you know, just the work that I liked. It didn't have corporate politics, you know, it was flexible. I it was it was remote. Just all these things made me realize that I had what I, you know, is commonly known as a lifestyle business. And at least out here in California where I live, a lifestyle business is not a good thing, because it's like what you get if you can't really do a successful startup. But for me, I consider them amazing lifestyle businesses, because you can design them around your life and that. So that is how my time freedom formula. I combine the money stuff with this work stuff, and how can you combine them in the right way, so that it fits well, so that you can have, you know, whatever time freedom looks like to you,

Jamila Souffrant 13:42

right? And I think too, like it's that, you know, being an employee and having the type of skill set or career in which you can become a solopreneur and kind of open up your own business is like a pathway for a lot of people that I hear actually just interview someone else who did something similar, so that they can control their own time. And with that though, I think what's important to note is there's some people who do what you do, but because they have no concept or idea of what, how to build a life of time freedom that still keeps them on the hamster wheel. If you don't know your enough point you want to maybe grow the business to a certain level, which requires more time and energy, or maybe your expenses are really high, so taking time off doesn't work. So because I've seen it the other way too, where you start your own business, and it doesn't result in time freedom, it's results in more work.

Brian Herriot 14:34

Yeah, actually, in the where I give my keynote speeches is usually to groups of entrepreneurs that are burned out, so they quit the corporate job to find freedom, and then ended up with less time freedom than they had in corporate work. And it really comes down to, I believe, a focus on what, what's your number one goal? And here's what I think people get trapped is. When you start your business, you know, we all need to make money, obviously. And so you hustle, hustle, hustle, and it works. And so you start making money. But then as the money starts to flow in, you kind of just keep the pressure going on the money. And then eventually, like, you're making a lot of money, but you're still just, you know, working so hard to get it. And so what, even though that freedom was maybe the original goal. What's happened is that somewhere along the line, your business got built for for income and not for independence, and you're like just kind of trapped in it. It's almost like another version of just the conventional way of doing things. And if you can break out of it, it's really a mindset and recognition thing, you have to say, I want freedom to be the absolute goal, and then everything else has to align around that. So maybe you're not gonna, maybe you're not gonna make as much money, but you're gonna have the freedom, although I would argue that there's ways in which I think time freedom could allow you to make more money, and we can get into that if you want, but that's, that's where I'm that's where I come out. Well,

Jamila Souffrant 16:01

definitely want to get into that a bit, but I think we should also just define and not just, like, take for granted, like, the definition of time freedom and what that means when you say it.

Brian Herriot 16:11

Yeah, definitely. So I usually start by describing what it's not. And to me, time freedom is definitely not work life balance, because I've tried work life balance and work life balance. And work life balance is like, you know, you take two hours off in the day, but then you work three hours until, you know, 11 o'clock at night. And work life balance is much more, like, focused, in my mind, on days and weeks, whereas time freedom is broader. It's like you're looking at months and years. Time freedom also isn't financial freedom, because financial freedom means you don't have to work again. Time freedom means you do have to work. You're just working on your terms. So time freedom is this different life path where, instead of the way I describe it is the conventional adult path, is like two stages. So you've got, you know, work, work, work, work, work, and then at 65 you retire. But someone who pursues time freedom is somebody who kind of blends this one work and play kind of lifestyle. So you have these periods of intense work because, you know, I like it. I enjoy trying to figure something out and solve something and make some money. But then there's times when you need a break, and so then you can take off whatever you need, and then you want to come back to work, then again later. And you could, as long as you optimize the work so that it's something you truly love. I actually think that you may want to do it forever, because you know, if as long as you're physically and mentally capable of it, if you build this work that gets, you know, gets rid of the passive aggressive colleagues and the difficult customers and all the bad stuff, and you just bring in, like, the problem solving and the sense of accomplishment and the social connections and the impact, if you can do those things and create this work, I've been slowly doing this. It's not an overnight thing, but as you can, as you can move this direction, you know, why would you ever want to give that up? And I think that's what happens to people who retire and then they don't know what to do with their life. That's time freedom. And I call especially in the book, I couldn't keep calling them people with time freedom. And so I had to come up with a name for these people, and I call them free timers. Now the problem is, when people first hear that, some people think freeloader, that's not that, and then the other half of the people are like, two timer. I'm like, no, no, that's not that either. I'm not I'm neither of those. So a free timer is someone who has absolute control of their time. They're people who they work because they want to, and they live a lifestyle that's kind of by design. It's not by default. And also that freedom is not something that you just wait for, but you actually build toward. So that's my definition of time, freedom, and kind of what I what a free timer is.

Jamila Souffrant 18:58

Okay, all right, great. I love that. Now, how does one because in order to, I guess, create the foundation, or to have time freedom, right, you need some form of financial stability first. So in your model, and I know everyone's like, path is going to be different, but would you like, what does that look like for a person listening, maybe, if they're younger or even a little older, how can they achieve or to get to the point where they can? And I'm assuming you're the time freedom is also based on building your own business, like entrepreneurship, maybe not,

Brian Herriot 19:31

not necessarily, yeah,

Jamila Souffrant 19:33

okay, because I feel like there's a foundation, like, right now, like, so just to quickly, I was able to quit my job because I built all that up in, like, in the foundation, years of paying off debt, saving up a lot of money, having, you know, solid investments, where we were coasting to financial independence, then I was able to kind of jump in and kind of live this time freedom, life that you're talking about. So what does that look like for the average person to be able just to get. It to that point,

Brian Herriot 20:01

really good question. I don't believe this works right out of school, for example, because I believe that you have to put in some time, and you need to develop you need to develop skills, you need to develop a network. You need to save some money, if you can, and the best way to do that is to go to work for somebody, because they've got the structure all in there. You know, you're going to quickly get ahead. You're not going to kind of be floundering for a year or two figuring out how to get your business off the ground. And so again, you know, ages vary, but I'm thinking, you know, at least from 25 to 3520 to 30, something like that. You're doing this kind of pre work. I guess you could call it. What's also happening, I noticed is that, I mean, you don't know anything different at that time in your life, looking back, you know, you just go to work and you kind of develop skills. It's not for me, it happened right around 40, but, you know, or maybe actually, I had inklings of this in my late 30s where you're starting to think, like, why am I doing this? You know, or, or, actually, it was, of course, my wife prodding me, but like you're working so hard, is this really what you want? And so it's the it's at that time when you start to think about, how could a model like this work? Now, then, to answer that question, it's very important for me to have this work for a lot of people. So not necessarily. You know, do you have to have your own business? No, but if you don't have that, then you have to pursue other pieces. So the way that I describe this, I talked earlier about the free timer, where they're kind of doing this work and play year by year by year. So I think about it in terms of a year, and then later we'll project it, but in terms of a year, if it was the financial freedom formula, you'd have your living expenses on one side, and you'd have your investment income or your 4% pull, you know, on the other side. But it's hard to make that work without a lot of money, right? And so the time freedom formula adds a third component, so it's lifestyle expenses equals investment income, whatever you can pull down, plus what, literally what you said, flexible work, right? So what the key is to balance that over a year and then repeat it year after year after year. Now I can describe the nuance later, but the point that I want to make here is that there's three levers to pull. So if you are entrepreneurial, you're going to really focus on that flexible work piece. If you're more traditionally, you know, traditional career, you're probably going to be have to focus on saving, you know, putting money away, because that's going to be a larger component for you. And then try to find positions where you have four day work weeks, or you can at least work from home on Friday. It may not look exactly the same as somebody who's a solopreneur, and then if you don't necessarily have either of those that you're passionate about, you can still focus on the lifestyle expenses side. And that might be the more traditional fire people or the minimalist people you know, like, if you can, if you lower your living expenses, your lifestyle expenses, you don't really need that much to live off of. You move to a cheap place, you know, all those sorts of things. So it what I like about them. The formula is that it does allow different types of people to meet it. Now, of course, they'll say, Well, what a well, that's just one year. What about my kids college? And, you know, what about like, if I'm just making it equal, then I can't save anything. And so, of course, I find if you're working on stuff you love, you're probably going to make more money, and you're going to end up being safe, end up saving but then the way that I project this one year time freedom formula is I have the time freedom calculator, which is at the end of my book, which is like, okay, now I want to put my numbers in and see if I'm ever going to run out of money, right? Because you have to be able to do that forward looking thing too. And the time freedom calculator is a simpler retirement calculator with one key difference. It's that you're not finding a retirement date after which you never work. You're finding a free date after which you still work, just flexibly. So it's changing the equation just a little bit. And so that's where you can see, oh, in three years I could do this, or in two years I could do this, or if you're earlier, in 10 years, I could do this

Jamila Souffrant 24:28

right, right? And I'm assuming too, you have to take into account, I mean, it goes hand in hand, because part of your expenses is going to be debt payments if you still have that. But getting out of debt or getting to a solid place will kind of help you coast or get to that point the time, Freedom date faster if you have less expenses.

Brian Herriot 24:46

Thank you for bringing up debt, because in the early drafts of the book, I really didn't address it well enough, and I found, you know, a lot of people have debt no fault of their own. Sometimes they were just like, handed credit cards at college, or you're coming out with. These loans. And the biggest feedback I got was, I love this model, but I have this debt hanging over me, and I can't even think about that yet, right until I address this debt situation. And so I am a firm believer, you know, in part of that prep stage that I failed to mention it, but that's where you really do need to pay down the debt, pay off the debt, because actually, when you get rid of that, there's a sense of freedom right there, right? Which is, I've experienced it. It's wonderful, right?

Jamila Souffrant 25:33

No, it is. It's like levels of freedom within the broader landscape or journey. It's like experience it along the way.

Brian Herriot 25:41

Yeah,

Jamila Souffrant 25:45

hey, journeyers, if you are loving this podcast, then you will love my book, Your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness. I wrote this book for you. This book is for you. If you want a clear and enjoyable path to having more money, options and a rich life, this book is for you. If you hate your commute and the fact that you need to seek approval or permission from a boss, I hated that when I worked. This book is for you. If you weren't born into wealth, you didn't marry rich or win the lottery, but you still want freedom. This book is for you. If you're at a crossroads, a major decision or event is imminent, maybe a career change, marriage, starting a family, pressures are reaching a tipping point, and the discomfort and the desire for more can no longer be ignored. And this book is for you. If you find yourself zoned out at meetings, looking out the window or daydreaming about the life you truly want. So go pick up your journey to financial freedom.com. So I can show you how to map out how to get from where you are today to where you ultimately want to be. And enjoy the journey while you're on the path, head over to your journey to financial freedom.com. To see where you can pick the book up. It's available on Amazon bookshop.org, Barnes and Noble, your local bookstore everywhere go to your journey to financial freedom.com. To get the book now, let's talk about how people can make this more real. Like, bring like it from concept and when they read your book. But like, bring it into their life, and get a head start now, maybe. And one of the things you talk about is, like taking stock, plus, like, your own money personality, like understanding that. Yeah,

Brian Herriot 27:30

right. So the the beauty of a book is you can kind of walk people through the process. And early, early on, one of the things that you need to do is take stock, right? And so there's the tactical stuff, which is all your financial numbers, right? You need to think through those things. But then, equally important, and amazingly, I didn't really consider this much until maybe, like, five years ago. So I'm 50 now, so it wasn't until I was I can't actually believe this, until I was 45 when I actually thought that people think about money differently. I just again, it must have been my blinders kind of mode where I'm like, Well, everyone just knows to save and, you know, that's the right way to do it. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I went deep and really learned there's a lot of, you know, very good literature about how people's childhood experiences and, you know, teen experiences and early life experiences influence how they view money. But what I wanted to make sure was that, again, the time freedom formula worked for a variety of people. And so I took a look at all the literature and kind of condensed it down into these three money personalities. And so part of the assessment and taking stock earlier in the book is to understand who you are naturally, not that that doesn't mean you couldn't build towards another one, like, I actually naturally am not an entrepreneurial type, but I learned that, you know. And so that's an added element, but the three money personalities, and there's a quiz in the book that's like, you know, seven question quiz or something is, you know, either you are the one that I was, which I thought everybody was, which I call a money manager. This is the in a lot of the literature, the good one, because it's the one where you're you understand value, and you save and you invest in stocks. And, you know, most money books are written for the money manager type. I started thinking about this because my son is not that type. And even though I did the three jar method and all those things you're supposed to do, he, like convinced me that he should spend it all and he would just go make more. And so he is of the type the I call the money maker. And this is your entrepreneurial person who, and it's actually probably the most freeing of all. If you have the ability to just make money on a dime, that's pretty amazing, right? You could lose everything, right?

Jamila Souffrant 29:52

And the confidence that you feel like you can make it. It's like, you know, that's big. Some people don't have

Brian Herriot 29:57

that, yep, man, I'm just gonna manifest that's money. Yeah. So my son, I have a story I can tell if we have time about my son's money making ability, but that's the second and then the third is the money minimizer. So these are people who get an inheritance and don't they feel that they deserve it because they didn't earn it, or they're not into the capitalist society, or they, you know, it's that type of person who, again, until I work with some of these people, I didn't really even realize that existed, but it does. And so each of those three kind of match with one of the drivers of the time freedom formula. So the, you know, the money minimizer kind of lines up with the lifestyle expenses, the money manager, the investment income and the money maker with the flexible work. So the idea there is, you can focus on what driver is important, and then the rest of the book goes through and dives deep into each of those areas. So you know kind of which is the most important one to work for you. Because a lot of times people can succeed very well with just being an expert in one but if you have a couple, well, you're going to be wildly successful, you know, with with time freedom,

Jamila Souffrant 31:09

right and, and if you can pull all three levers, or can almost like you said, you can maybe be dominant in one personality, but then also can learn to adjust And to pull from the other personalities. It's something different, and it's interesting, because, like you said, also being in this space and talking about money for so long, and whether it's through my own behaviors or family and friends or other people like who listen to my work or read the book, you realize that all this, all, most of the things that we talk about, especially like the foundation topics and just definitions, are all out there. Like, it's always said, people like, know what to do. Like, you can easily just say, How do I budget? What is like, credit like, all those things are out there. And especially with the internet, it's free information that you can get. And it's not like what people don't know. It's like why they don't do the thing that they should do. And then there's all the other components that then lead into whether that's your own culture or society, norms and trauma and so mindset. It's like so much of money when we talk about it is you can value, you can count, but then all the factors that impact how we deal with money are usually intangible, where we have to take note and be aware of if we want to make the changes we want to see.

Brian Herriot 32:34

And it was so important for me in the book, a lot of the literature on these money personalities, they call them like money conditions, or like money, like if you spend, or if you like, I don't think there's anything wrong with spending, you know. You just make sure you know what you're spending on. I just, I wanted to portray each of these as a strength, right? Like they're, they're strengths in their own way, so you can leverage the strength that you have naturally. And then the other one is like, I think sometimes people think, Oh, this is just how I am, you know, I can't change how I am. And so I use, you know, my personal example how I I never did lemonade stands as a kid, I didn't, like, you know, buy the stuff from Costco and sell it to my classmates. I didn't do any of those traditional entrepreneurial things. My dad actually said, I've mowed lawns, and I mowed like, three neighbors lawns. And he's like, You want to make a business out of it? And I'm like, No, I want to go to the lake. I think I've always liked going to the lake and water skiing, but later in life, you know, I really found that I wanted to do this. And you're, you're so, right? There's like, like, like, the tactical things that you can learn. But then there's the mindset like, Am I an entrepreneur, or am I capable of becoming an entrepreneur? Those are that those are two different things you need to overcome,

Jamila Souffrant 33:52

right, right? And the other thing that you talk about, which we definitely align, and I think found just good information, and was the whole, like, lifestyle design and W Milman, so do you want to, like, talk a bit about that?

Brian Herriot 34:05

Yeah, well, I mean, but did your book come out two years ago? Maybe ish, or a little more,

Jamila Souffrant 34:09

the hardcover came out in 2023

Brian Herriot 34:12

Okay, so right around, like I was writing my book in 2024 like it's been, you know, you know how long of a process this whole thing. But I remember, I was on a I was listening to your book. I got the audio book, and I was listening when I was on my elliptical machine, and you got to the section about lifestyle design, and you mentioned Debbie millman's, what, 10 year visioning exercise,

Jamila Souffrant 34:34

yes.

Brian Herriot 34:34

And I, I went and I bought, I don't know if you know this, but she's got these little cards now that you can buy the, like, the visioning deck or something, and I, I just loved it. So then I started going deep on all these George kinder and, like, all these different ways,

Jamila Souffrant 34:51

three life questions, yes,

Brian Herriot 34:53

yeah, can I do all these things? This is just, you know, I think we're probably the same type of person in that we. Just do all these things.

Jamila Souffrant 35:01

So yeah, let's define the Debbie Millman lifestyle design, and then we'll talk about how you kind of created your version of it,

Brian Herriot 35:08

for sure. So before you go out and decide you want time freedom, you need to know what you want time freedom for. And that's what the lifestyle design is all about. And so that's also a precursor step, once you take stock in deciding, what do I want this for? And this is where you know you pull in a partner if you have one, or do it yourself if you don't. It works great. But the idea is, if you look ahead in your life, where do you want to go? Because then you can start to define the numbers and create the work to align with it so that you can get there. So that's the lifestyle design. I happen to call it the look back, look ahead, lifestyle design, because maybe it's because I like reminiscing, but I feel there are four things that really define where you go. And the first one is who you have relationships with. The second one is where you live, like your location. The third is your profession. You know what you do day in and day out. And then the fourth one is how you kind of take care of yourself. And so if you take those four things and map out where you are today, that's step one. Next. I think it's so hard to think ahead, I first like to think backward. So go back to 2026, and do those same four things for yourself. And you might actually be really surprised at how far you've come in 10 years like, like 10 years ago, like, I had a kid who was four, you know, like, it's just a totally different stage of life.

Jamila Souffrant 36:38

I love that you broke those down into four categories, because those are the major things that impact, like our wellness and how we are in life, right? So you're saying, think about those categories, and then think about like, let's just say from today, where you were 10 years ago, or where you want to be 10 years from now,

Brian Herriot 36:55

that will be next. So if step one is today, step two is 10 years ago,

Jamila Souffrant 37:00

okay,

Brian Herriot 37:01

yep. And step three is 10 years from now. So

Jamila Souffrant 37:04

like, for example, if I'm doing the exercise and I'm thinking 10 years ago, where was I with family or the relationships that were important to me, like thinking back about the feeling the moment, maybe I have to go, like, look through Google Photos and calendar just to kind of, like, kind of get a sense again. But okay, and then you're just, like, writing down how you feel about it, like, if you are you rating one to 10 the success of those things, or

Brian Herriot 37:27

No, I don't want to anyone to rate

Jamila Souffrant 37:29

it.

Brian Herriot 37:30

I just want to five stars. Five stars. I think ultimately, yeah, you want to write the four allows you to have some specificity of what you're thinking through, but looking back 10 years, the main thing that I want people to get out of that is for most people, and not all, and I have to be careful about this, but for most people, you can do a lot of stuff in 10 years, right? And it's like, wow, just to think of the progress that I've made in 10 years kind of inspires you to think a little bit bigger about your next 10 years. Because I as a just go through life head down. Kind of person. I'm like, I don't know, in 10 years, I'll probably just be doing this. I'll just be doing it 10 years better. But no, I want you to think like, you know, questions like, what could you read about that you're somebody in high school did that? You're like, God, I really wish I would have done that, you know, like, wrote a book, or lived in Italy for six months, you know, those sorts of things. Then you can put those things out. Like, who do you want to be with in 10 years? Where do you want to live in 10 years? What do you want to be doing in 10 years? And what are you going to be doing to help take care of yourself in 10 years? Because then, then you have this vision that then you can build the time freedom for Right,

Jamila Souffrant 38:45

right, which is so important. Like you said, there's so much of what I realized, what I was when I first started, was just to escape my corporate job. Like I just wanted to just not have to work and have a commute, which is why, what pulled me the financial independence and, like the journey. And I feel like a lot of people are typically like that. There's something in their life that makes them uncomfortable, and they just they are. They want something different. But even if you get to the different place, so even if you get to the time freedom and or financial flexibility, financial independence, you're still you. You still have a life that you still have 24 hours in a day. You got to live it. You have to add so whatever you know, for lack of better words, demons or things and whatever makes like, I even realized the things that annoyed me, like, back when I was working, or even like I used to, I still do this, but like, I spent a lot of time, like, when I pulled up to work or home when I was working full time, like, I stayed in my car. And I feel like I waste a lot of time just like, having to sit in my car. And I'm like, Well, I guess, like, once I have my freedom, right? Like, I'd be so, like, I'll just get out my car and get it, you know, I'll be energized to, you know, take on the world and do whatever I need to do. But I'm like. Like, no, the same thing happens now. Because you're the same, you are at the core, you are the same person. You know, obviously I've grown, but I just think it's so important for people to realize that whatever things you have that make you, whether unhappy or motivate you or those things don't necessarily change unless you work on it, and maybe the same issue, and you might even be even more disappointed because you thought that that was the reason you were, you know, having the feelings. But it's not that. It's you are who you are, so you have to work to that version of yourself that you want to be, regardless of your current situation.

Brian Herriot 40:35

Yeah, and let me give you an example for me, like so we spent three months in Wisconsin on the lake, and I still want to be doing that in 10 years, because it's a wonderful way to go. We don't see a lot of family in the rest of the year, but we see a lot of family during that time, which is wonderful. But an element that we want to add is we want to add three months in another place, whatever that is, because, you know, we're still young enough to we won't probably want to do that when we're 90, but we definitely do 10 years from now. So I want to say, spend three months in France. So I'm looking backward. I'm like, okay, so how do I do that? Well, if I can get my keynoting so strong and so compelling that I get a hired in Paris. Great. I can get flown there. I can do my speech. We can, you know, work the time, Freedom stuff there. And also, oh, let's just stay there for another, you know, two, three months while we're there in so, so it's, how do these things kind of start to work together? Now, can I just do that tomorrow? No, probably not. But I want to work toward, you know, as an example of them,

Jamila Souffrant 41:43

let's talk a little bit about the what we value as whether it's entertainment and or just feel good moments. You said, you mentioned three months on the lake feels really good. And just like when people think, Oh, if I could be financially free or I didn't have to work, they enjoy the beach. And they're like, Well, I think I'd want to be on the beach year round. And then if they had that option to be on the like, you just like, you know, sometimes you're like, what this actually does not feel as good as I thought it would like. The actual feeling of it feeling good is because it's a limited timeframe, and you get a contrast to like. Contrast is good.

Brian Herriot 42:18

Contrast is huge. It's everything I think

Jamila Souffrant 42:20

it is. It's like, because then people like, you know, I cannot stand the cold and winter weather in New York. I know that if I lived 20, like, year round, where it was hot, that I wouldn't appreciate now, like, it's getting warmer. Now I'm just like, it's amazing. And so I just, let's talk about that contrast that sometimes you need the contrast for you to appreciate the thing that you're looking forward to.

Brian Herriot 42:43

I know you mean about the feeling of spring, because, I mean, I grew up in the cold of Wisconsin, and so I definitely know that. And actually, really, when we moved to California on January 2 that year, we were outside playing tennis, and I thought I said to my wife, never, never will we take this for granted, because we know how cold it is right now back home. Yeah, the contracts is everything, and so that's this is something that I first, first observed as a consultant in my job long time ago. You'd go and you'd work on this project, and then you get all these people together, and they work on the project, and then the project ends, and everyone has a party for you, and you say goodbye, and you move on to the next thing, and then you start it over again. What a wonderful experience, because the people that we would work with were just in that same job, in the same job, in the same job for Year and Year and Year. So that was like my first experience with that contrast concept. The second one is kind of surprised me. So, you know, I said, starting in 2022 we've been spending summers in Wisconsin. So what that means is that two times per year we have to leave a location and go to a new location. So it's this, goodbye parties, hello parties. Goodbye parties, hello parties. It's just a wonderful feeling. It's just a nice way of of experiencing that. And so, yes, I totally agree with you. Like, once, like, once you're retired, or once you're on the beach, 100% of the time you don't value it, because it's just life. You know, there's no contrast. Like, you need hard work in order to appreciate the time off. That's why I like the whole free timer concept, where you have these intense periods of work, and then you have the break, and you feel great about it, and then you're like, by the end of the break, you're like, let's go back to work, yeah, and then you can work again. And you know, then it's that, it's just like, how do you keep your money somewhat stable so that you can keep living? You know, that's the money part of the of that contrast question, right?

Jamila Souffrant 44:34

And I think, I think this probably will still be dependent on personalities, because I'm pretty sure someone is listening that lives where it's warm on the beach year round, and they're like, Oh no, like this, like, I appreciate this all the time, right? And it was thinking, like, when I go to Jamaica, it's my home island. And you know, the people who live in Jamaica, I mean, yes, they appreciate the island. And you know some I'm being general here. But when I go and I'm like, looking at the mountains, and. I'm just like, in awe. I'm just like, you guys get to see this view every day. And my sister is like, yeah, it's beautiful, but yeah, like, we're going about our way, whereas, like, when they come visit me in New York, and they're like, huh, New York? I'm like, yeah, it's just New York. So yeah,

Brian Herriot 45:15

somebody taught me once that when you're walking around downtown New York, you can tell who the tourists are, because they're all looking up,

Jamila Souffrant 45:21

yeah, and walking slow, like, get out the way. No, but yes. Okay, so Brian, in regards to like, concepts or frameworks, you think will be helpful for someone listening, that will be like, You know what? I need to go, like, go get this book when it comes out. And I know you have some pre order stuff, because this will come up before the book comes out. What's like, one thing that they can do or think about to help them, like, set their path to this time freedom model that you're talking

Jamila Souffrant 45:47

about.

Brian Herriot 45:48

So your first question is, what's another concept, kind of a differentiating thing? One, one of the things that I've realized is that there's this concept of coast fire, right, versus time freedom, like, what's the difference? And, I mean, there's a lot of similarities, I think, with it, but the one thing that was really important to me in writing the book is that I and I know that it's just the name, but the concept of coasting. And I'm like, I don't want to live a life where I'm coasting and

Jamila Souffrant 46:13

let's define post fire. I'm sorry, because I always just assume people don't know. So what's Coast fire?

Brian Herriot 46:18

That's a great point. So Coast fire, as I understand it, is that it's a version of fire where you save money up to a certain amount such that you don't really have to save anymore, because by the time you officially retire, that money will grow on its own to get to a point where, when you withdraw 4% you know you'll be able to live off of it. So what that then means is it that in that interim time, you can work a part time job, or you can, you know, work less or work fewer hours, and do do all that. And in a way, it's, it's a similar model right to what we if you can work flexibly, you can take more time to be with your family, like do the important things in life. And I think it's just a name. I think what I actually realized is, when I was on the bigger pockets money podcast, that the coast part is the money. It's defining the money. Coast should not define what you do with your life. And so that's where it's better with time freedom. So with time freedom, like I still have really big goals in life, things that I want to do things, that I want to grow. I just want to do it on my terms, you know. So I want to do that while still, you know. And I actually believe that when you pull yourself out of your work for a few months, you know, it's especially if you have an entrepreneurial mind, you're not just completely disengaged. You're thinking about these you're connecting things, creative connections of things that you wouldn't think about if you were in the details such that you're probably going to come up with an idea that's going to like launch your business, instead of just maintaining

Jamila Souffrant 47:51

when you're thinking about time freedom as an entrepreneur and you're, let's say help links. I know you help people map this out too. You when you say them take a step back. You're modeling where, let's just say they they're working eight months or nine months out the year, and then completely stepping away from their business. Is the business still running in the forefront, or can they completely pause their business? Is there a solopreneur and say, you know, I'll be back, like, I put the shingles up, like, let's just say no more podcast if you're like, a podcaster, or no more coaching. Is that what you're saying as a model or depends?

Brian Herriot 48:24

It does depend. But I still have a framework that I call seasonal schedules, and this is where, you know, kind of reverting to the schedules of old, where you're able to kind of ebb and flow on the level of work. And there's and I actually believe, especially for service businesses, that if it's your number one goal, I think any business could be a seasonal business. And the way that I describe it is kind of, there's two things you need to navigate. You need to navigate your work. So how could you take the work that you do and, like, chunk it down into, like, a one week thing or a one month thing, and then take those chunks and stack them up into the months that you want to work? And then just like I do that, and I just don't put any of those chunks of work in the summer. That's one model. And then the other is, even if you're a solopreneur, I'm a believer that everybody should have an assistant of some sort, virtual assistant, part time assistant, part time virtual assistant, whatever. Who's you're working with them to grow them and to help them take over a lot of the operations of your business, first, the stuff that you don't want to do, and then secondly, even the stuff you do want to do, so that you can pull away. And then, based on how those things work, you could keep the business going. You maybe bring it, just lower it down a bit, or you stop it completely. Possibly, you know, it just depends. And there's just a lot of creative ways that you can structure a business if time freedom is your ultimate goal,

Jamila Souffrant 49:50

right, right? I love this, Brian, can you just please tell everyone the name of your book again, where they can order it and pre order it and some of the bonus. Is that you have and why they should just go get

Jamila Souffrant 50:02

it?

Brian Herriot 50:03

Yeah, no, I'm really excited about this book. So it's time freedom. I'm holding it up on camera if you're looking here's the thing, the book actually doesn't release until September 15, which is so long from now five months and it's too long. And so I have this offer where I have a version of the audiobook that I've recorded that I want to give you now. And usually I ask people to buy three copies of the book, and then you can get the audiobook. But for your listeners, I want to say, if you buy one, if you pre order the book, one copy, pre order the hard copy, and then you put your information@timefreedombook.com I'll send you immediately the audiobook right then, so you don't have to wait, right? And with the audiobook, I have all the figures and stuff that you can look so you can get started right away. And then guess what? Then, on September 15, you're going to get this surprise package and be like, Oh, great. I remember I bought that book,

Jamila Souffrant 50:58

right? And,

Jamila Souffrant 50:59

yeah, the physical component. And so I say that website one more time, and then where they can pre order. I'm pretty sure you have that on your website. But website and where they

Jamila Souffrant 51:06

pre

Brian Herriot 51:06

order, yep, time freedom book.com time freedom book.com and you then can order from wherever you want to from there, Amazon, Barnes and Noble bookshop.org and then if you put the order number on my little form on timefreedombook.com and you put the code Jamila in there, then you just submit, and you'll automatically get the audio book right. Then, immediately, immediately,

Jamila Souffrant 51:30

that's great. Well, congrats on the upcoming book. Thank you for coming on the podcast and sharing your work. Pretty sure this will be helpful to a lot of journeyers and thanks again.

Brian Herriot 51:40

I hope so. Thank you. I hope everyone of all types and backgrounds and different experiences can find time freedom. I just I'm so passionate about it. So thanks for having me on.

Jamila Souffrant 51:52

Don't forget, you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this. And you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch.com/jumpstart if you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here. Here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcast, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify wherever it is that you happen to listen. Just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple podcasts, rate review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm at journey to launch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, and I love, love, love interacting with journeyers. There. Three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here, so show them some love for supporting your girl four. And last but not least, share this episode, this podcast, with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to launch. All right, that's it until next week. Keep on journeying. Journeyers.

Jamila Souffrant 53:16

You you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai