Speaker 1 0:00

It

Kristy Shen 0:02

really doesn't make sense to buy all these things that what I like to call big baby. So the the baby industrial complex, which is always after you, because I'm constantly getting ads for, like, you need to buy this fancy stroller, you need to buy this toy. Oh, this new thing came out. Isn't this great? And just constantly bombarded. And there's like, this emotional aspect when you have a child that you're like, I'm not going to buy this for myself, but I totally want to buy this for my child, because if I don't buy it, I'm a bad parent and I don't love them.

Speaker 2 0:30

Welcome to the journey. To launch podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant as a money expert who wants her talk she helps brave journeyers like you, get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in 54321,

Jamila Souffrant 0:57

if you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to journeytolaunch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode in the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned and so much more also, whether you are an OG journeyer or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes to listen to, stages to go through to reach financial freedom resources and so much more you can go to journey to launch.com/jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode. Hey, journeyers, welcome to the journey to launch podcast today, we have some special and returning guests on the show. They haven't been here in a while, but we have on Christy and Bryce from Millennial revolution the blog, and they are leaders in the fire movement, I must say, because when I started the fire movement, they were already in the space talking about and writing about reaching financial independence. Retire early, and they wrote the book quick, like a millionaire. They talk about early retirement in their 30s, and now they have a child. Congrats. So they're out with a new book called parent like a millionaire without being one. So I'm really excited to talk to you, Christy and Bryce again, to see what's up. Because just before we get started, you were back on episode 11, so like, really in the beginning of the podcast, back in 2017 and then you came back on episode 105, in 2019 so it's been a bit of a minute, almost seven years since we've caught up. And so I'm really interested to learn more and hear what you've been up to. So welcome back to the show.

Kristy Shen 2:42

Thank you so much. Yeah, definitely, a lot has happened. I have so much respect for you now, Jamila, because dealing with one kid, I'm already exhausted. I'm like, Jamila has three kids. I She is she needs to get an award. I feel like, how do you do it?

Bryce Leung 2:57

Like, I I wake up tired now, and that's never happened before.

Jamila Souffrant 3:04

Yeah, it's hard to explain. Honestly, it really is hard to explain to people without children, like, what it is, you know, because there's nothing that you can say or do like you just have to go through it, because everyone's experience is also very different. That's another thing. Yes, it's exactly it. Yeah, it's a case by case, but I'm happy to have you back before we kind of jump into where you are now. I do want to give a quick backstory, because you've been on the show years ago, and so there I have a lot of new listeners and people who may have listened but forgot. But can you just give us a brief rundown of your introduction into the fire movement, and then you guys retiring in your 30s, and how that went,

Kristy Shen 3:40

for sure, yeah. So originally, we were not actually looking into the fire movement. We didn't know it existed. We were trying to buy a house. That was the entire journey we we were trying to follow the script of, you know, get a job, work until you're 65 buy a house. Check off all the adulting check boxes. But because we lived in such an expensive, major metropolitan city, it was really hard to buy a house every time you saved money, then the housing price went up, and then it was just the goal post kept moving. It was very difficult to save for a house. And on top of that, I was worried about layoffs, because my I was working as a software engineer, and there was a possibility that my job was going to be outsourced to India at the time. And now there's even more risk because it's AI. Back then it was big, big risk with outsourcing. Now, big risk is your job being taken by AI. So it didn't make sense at the time for me to get locked into a 25 year mortgage if I wasn't even sure if I was going to have a job in the next five years. And then one day, one of my co workers was working so many hours that he collapsed at his desk and had to be rushed off to the hospital. And then they said that he was working, you know, 1340 14 hours a day, and it was as bad as smoking two packs of cigarettes a day, even though he never smoked. And that was my wake up call, that I need to do something different drastically, because the script is no longer working. And then that's when we discovered Mr. Money mustaches blog. And at. Time like now, we talk about fire as an entire movement, but back then, it was really just a handful of bloggers, and most of them were American, so I wasn't sure if this is going to work internationally. Is this even doable? Is this a scam? At the point, I was just not sure about it at all. And then we followed this path, and we started investing, and surprisingly, we thought that we would get to financial independence in about five to 10 years. We ended up getting there in three years, because we're just hyper drive towards this goal. And then after that, we were able to quit our jobs and retire the world in our early 30s, or travel the world retire, retire and travel the world in our early 30s. And then it wasn't until the pandemic and a family emergency that we had to come back to Canada, and then after that, we had a kid, and now we're parents, living the fire life as parents, and it's been quite the crazy journey. And I was not expecting it, because that was not my plan. Initially. I was trying to follow the script.

Jamila Souffrant 5:57

Yeah, I love that. Thank you for giving that rundown again again. If you want to hear more of the backstory and details, Chrissy and Bryce go through that in our previous episode. So episode 11 and episode 105, which we will link in the show notes. I do want to touch upon some things I think will be interested that could lead us to where you guys are now. So you guys were traveling the world for a bit. Were able to quit your jobs and do it in three years instead of the longer timeframe. Now, the way you were able to do that, and I'm glad you mentioned Canada, because that's where you guys were based in the beginning. Yeah, toronto, toronto first, okay, which is great, because I do have Canadian listeners who sometimes are like, does this apply? Some of the things you talk about are just like us Based Investing or things, does this? Can this work here? So you guys were able to do it, talk a bit about how you were able to just do it faster in that timeline. Because I think that's a lot of people's hesitation on starting, is that when they do the math, it's going to take too long, and it took you a lot faster. So how did you do that?

Kristy Shen 6:58

I think a lot of it is actually mindset, because when you first start investing and you start thinking about financial independence, it's there's a lot of fear that goes with it, especially from my background, because at one point in my childhood, I grew up in poverty in China, so I was very fixated on like, how much your money can buy and how much you can save and put it into a savings account. So investing was really scary for me, and also becoming a millionaire was just this pipe dream that I just could not see happening. Once you actually start going into investing and you start realizing that it's not as scary as it seems, especially if you came from a poverty background, it snowballs very quickly so. And the thing is, people get a lot of promotions as they go. Like a lot of people look at their salary and they're like, Oh, I started at a very low salary. There's no way I can reach fire. But not everybody is going to have a six figure salary. Like we didn't start with six figure salaries. We eventually got promotions. We eventually got raises. And then when we had this goal to drive towards and investing became less scary. As time went on, every single penny that we were making, we started shoving it towards the portfolio. So we started ignoring the lifestyle creep that inevitably happens when you get a promotion or when you get a raise. You start thinking, You know what? I deserve this. I had to fight against the immigrant mindset, which was, you know, I was poor now I can finally afford things I'm gonna go buy, like all the luxury goods, because I need to prove that I'm worth it. Just getting out of that mindset and saying, I want to buy my freedom. That is my number one goal, and that's what my money should go towards, not going into lifestyle creep and then just focusing hyper, focusing on investing, and then getting over your fear of investing. That actually makes a huge difference, because we've actually had readers write into our blog saying, you know, I started with a 40,000 salary. I was really worried that there was no way I was going to get to financial independence. And then independence. And then, like, after I discovered the movement, I discovered your workshop, and then I started investing. Eight years later, I'm actually a millionaire. Like they started writing to me way back in 2017 and then they, now they wrote back to me and said, I actually reached the Million Dollar Point. And when you, when you dig down into it, a lot of it is really mindset because that they they got promotions over time, they got raises, they did not get into the lifestyle creep, and they were not afraid of investing, even though it seems very simple in the beginning, and it seems very simple as a concept, it's like, how can that actually make you a millionaire? Multiple people have written into us and said, I became a millionaire eight years later because of that, putting every single penny that I make into the portfolio, and then whenever I get a promotion, not getting into lifestyle creep.

Bryce Leung 9:27

Yeah. The reason why some people, like a lot of people, find this stuff so like, takes so slow at the beginning, is because the effects of investing become more pronounced the bigger your your portfolio gets. So when you're starting off with like, $10,000 a 1% move in your portfolio is like $100 right? So it's like, you know, like, fine, but when we start, then when your portfolio starts to get into, like the 100,000 or even the million dollar range, a 1% move on a Million Dollar Portfolio is 10 grand. So it really does have this snowballing effect where it seems like, at the beginning, you're setting up your investments, and it like, doesn't seem. To be doing much, but percentages, those percentages scale as your portfolio scales, so as so it really does become the snowball effect where you set up the money machine. It doesn't seem to be doing much at the beginning, but you start feeding into it, and then all of a sudden, those percentages that are changing get become more and more powerful, and then it becomes almost an unstoppable force. Last year, I think, you know, stock markets went up like quite a lot last year, and on our when I tallied up everything, I think we went up like 400 grand or something crazy like that in one freaking year. I've never had that like that dwarfs the amount of money that we ever made as like, like, working or doing anything entrepreneurial that we've done since. And that's just based off of the fact that the portfolio has gotten so large.

Jamila Souffrant 10:42

Yeah, I think, I mean, that's the thing, right? Like, you have people who are already kind of closer to where you want to be, if you're listening and you don't, you know you're still in debt, you don't have as much invested. But you have people like Chrissy and Bryce, even myself, who we've seen like tremendous gains without even having to do anything or invest anymore. At least personally, where we are in our life, in our stage, and it's like, wow, if you can just like, buckle down and do it, you will see the rewards, but you have to stick with it. The thing that I really want to touch on before, before we kind of talk about the whole having kids and raising millionaires, is you talked about the immigrant mindset, and now that you have money and are not struggling as much as what you saw growing up, that you want to enjoy your life and enjoy your hard earned money, but then that keeps so many of us back. And I talk about this in my book too, where you know there and it's maybe different for different cultures, but ultimately, where you want to prove your self worth and kind of control the narrative are people see you based on how what you have and how you look, because you want that, and maybe because that you didn't have that growing up. It's not a part of, you know, how people view you in society. So what is the fine line in saying, I'm going to reject falling into the trap of buying things to impress other people, versus, you know what? Though, I work hard and I do want nice things, and I deserve this. How do you fall like, how do you not also get to the point where you don't spend money and you're swinging the other way, which is also negative? That's a really

Kristy Shen 12:15

good point, yeah, because you can actually go towards the scarcity mindset, which is another thing that a lot of immigrants have, which is, you know, I need to save for a rainy day, and bad things could always happen, and then you're actually missing out on enjoying life. So you were absolutely right that there is definitely that fine line for us. Specifically, it was really spending towards our values, like really distinguishing, are you spending towards something because you value it, or are you spending something on something because of how other people perceive you, or how other why? Because other people are doing it, and you're doing it as well, and you're just following the herd. For me that was buying a house in an expensive city, it was really hard to get away from that mindset, and I was having trouble distinguishing that for the longest time, because I had so much pressure from my parents, specifically my mom, like, you need to buy a house, you need to buy a house. You're nobody until you buy a house, you're a millionaire. So what you don't even have a house. Just getting out of that mindset is very difficult. And then the thing that we really cared about that was really important to us was travel. That's why getting towards fi, even though it's a really long journey, it's a marathon, it did not feel like sacrifice, because we always made sure that we had money for travel. We had money for experiences, because we value experiences more than things. But that pressure is huge, not just from other people, not just from your community, but a lot of times from your parents, because they also had scarcity. So they're just trying to do what's best for you. They want you to be safe, they want you to be happy. But sometimes that comes from a good place, but it doesn't really make sense for me, it was really just fighting that pressure of, like, you need to buy this house because you are not anyone until you're a homeowner. And like, we came to this country, we sacrificed so much for you, only for you to invest in the scary stock market and, like, not buy a house. Like, that's not, you know? So there's a guilt that comes with that as well. It is definitely a journey. It was not easy. It didn't it wasn't instantaneously, I just said, okay, you know what? I only care about child. I don't care about what my mom's saying or how other people perceive me. I'm done. It took years of, you know, understanding that, like being even aware that that was coming from a scarcity mindset and an immigrant mindset, and then distinguishing between what's my values and what other people are projecting their values onto me. It's a whole journey in itself.

Jamila Souffrant 14:26

Yeah, now that you guys are parents, then you are in a situation where you're raising right this little child that you want to try your best to instill the foundations and maybe not pass down whatever mindset things you have about money. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about now your journey into parenthood and how that changed wherever you were before you had your child, because I knew that you in the pandemic. You came, it seems like you came back to Canada. But how did having a child change your your journey? Yeah.

Kristy Shen 15:00

Was a really crazy story, because we had this crazy, like, like, Circle of Life thing that happened because we came back to Canada, because Bryce's dad was actually diagnosed with brain cancer. So, like, it

Bryce Leung 15:11

was so while everybody was kind of so we were all, we were all dealing with masking and quarantines and this kind of stuff. I was also dealing with a terminal cancer diagnosis for my dad. So on top of worrying about all the hand washing and everything that that we were doing there, I was also like, I also had to worry about taking care of my dad and also not getting him sick, because now he was immunocompromised. So that's kind of when this fire, this whole fire journey, really, you know, literally just came home for me. Because before we were doing the fire thing, it was like, Oh, this is great. We get to quit our jobs. We get to travel the world, we get a flutter belt and this kind of thing. And that was great. But where it really came in clutch was when my parents needed me to to help them. So what we ended up doing was we basically ended up moving back in with my with my mom, so that we could, like, take care of help take care of my dad, and as his condition deteriorated, he needed more and more care, to the point where we needed to be running, like, basically 24 hour like, shifts with my sisters and my mom to give him to provide 24 hour care, so that he wouldn't, like, get up at 3am and, like, go up the stairs and hurt himself and that kind of thing that would not have been possible had we not done the fire thing. Because if I was doing all that stuff, and I had to worry about both of our jobs, we'd have to make some very difficult choices. So that's kind of where fire really came in handy there and then, as she was referring this full circle moment when my dad eventually passed, Christie was nine months pregnant at the time, and it was right at the her due date was literally the same day as my dad's memorial service. So I had to very quickly shift from losing a parent to becoming one basically at the same time. So that was a really, really difficult transition for me. And again, I don't think I would have been able to pull it off if we had to, you know, basically, worry about our bosses telling us to come back to come back to work at the same time. So I like to say fire is the best money I never spent. And that's kind of where the that moment is when it really, when I was really just kind of cashed in all my chips, right?

Jamila Souffrant 17:12

Like you before, you know, the traveling and all the cool things you were doing that fire allowed you to do was great, but then you realize, like this, this is what it was for, like, really, for us to be able to have that time without worrying about clocking into a job,

Bryce Leung 17:27

yeah, like at the end of the day. Time is the only resource that we all have when we, you know, are born, we have a certain amount of finite amount of time on this earth, and we spend some, some amount of time trading that for money, and then that kind of thing. But what fire does is it recognizes that money has no value unless you trade it back for time again, like time in this case, time spent being able to do what you spent with the people that you love and spending time with them. So that's the key realization that fire made, which is money is important, but only if it gives you freedom, not if it traps you, right?

Jamila Souffrant 18:02

I love that. Thank you for sharing. So with this now becoming a parent, what changed with your goals in terms of how you are now looking forward to, how you spend your time, versus before you had a kid? Did you think, Okay, I'm going to travel the world for X amount, I'm going to settle down here. Or did you once you had that kid, have to change and pivot to, you know what? Let me stay in Canada and do these other things. What changed once you you became a parent?

Kristy Shen 18:32

Oh, yeah, there are so many things that change. One of the biggest realizations is, when you have a kid, it kind of enables you to relive your childhood. And one of the things I really realized is how important finances are when it comes to raising a child. And I reflected back on my childhood a lot, growing up in poverty, and then that was where I was able to see where a lot of the trauma actually came from, because my my dad was overseas at the time, trying to earn a living, and then my mom was doing shift work back in China while taking care of me, and a lot of the explosive anger issues that she had, and a lot of the stress she had was really just from not having money and then having to be able to raise him with this type of childhood where we figured out financial independence, we are on financial stable ground. It really opened up my eyes as to how important figuring out finances are. When you when you when it comes to raising children, it's much easier to be a parent when you have your finances figured out versus when you don't. And another thing that I wasn't expecting is how much it would heal me, like having a child, would it did reflect back on a lot of my issues, it's like, wow, okay, that's where all my anxiety comes from. It's like, okay. That is why I have this scarcity mindset, like you start seeing all these pieces of your childhood, and you kind of like, put the pieces together in a puzzle. But it's also very healing in a way, because it's kind of like redoing my childhood, like being the mom that I always wanted, giving him all the things that I wanted to give him. And another thing that was interesting was the immigrant mindset was like, now I deserve this. Like, initially. I was thinking of putting that on my kit too, right? It's like, oh, now he can have all the nice things. I'm going to buy him all the things, because he deserves it, and all this stuff. But one of the things we wrote into the book is that we realized that's actually completely unnecessary. You start realizing that they grow out of things so quickly, and it really doesn't make sense to buy all these things that what I like to call big baby. So the baby industrial complex, which is always after you, because I'm constantly getting ads for like, you need to buy this fancy stroller, you need to buy this toy. Oh, this new thing came out. Isn't this great? And just constantly bombarded, much worse than before we had a kid, constantly bombarded with ads to buy things. And there's, like, this emotional aspect when you have a child that you're like, I'm not going to buy this for myself, but I totally want to buy this for my child, because if I don't buy it, I'm a bad parent, and I don't love them. So there's even more pressure, but it's like, different type of pressure that I experienced after having him, from, like, all just all the things I need to buy him, just all the pressure and then realizing that that is actually not the entire point, like, I can get quality for a lot less. There's, like, lots of ways to rent things for free, which we talk about in the book, and also the scary things that people are telling me, like, you need to save for college right away. You should be putting hundreds of 1000s of dollars. Like, college is so expensive, no one's ever going to be able to afford it. And then realizing, like, Hey, I've learned all these lessons about investing. I can just make the stock market pay for college, all these lessons that we learned from, you know, becoming financially independent was able to be applied to parenting. And I realized that's what my mother needed. She needed finances to be sorted out so that she wouldn't have such a hard time and it would be less struggle. So I it was really eye opening in terms of how connected finances in parenting was, and how much easier it would be once you figured out the finances.

Bryce Leung 21:42

Yeah, because there's like a million different ways to parent. There's like a million different parenting books. There's gentle parenting, there's Tiger Mom, there's mom, all these different types of different flavors of parenting, and they all disagree. But I think the unifying part to every single parenting method is, if you have more money, it gets easier, right? That's always true. And the weird thing is, there's no book actually that talks about this. It's like, how do I actually help the parents? Because every parenting book out there is like, Okay, here's some more stuff you need to do.

Kristy Shen 22:12

Or like how to teach your kids about finances and like how to make them set for life and understand how money works. Like, it's like, what about the parents? We're people too,

Bryce Leung 22:20

and you know, you have kids like you, you're actually the same way. That is like that we do to more homework. It's like, like, I do not have time for this. But the idea of like, okay, let's help the parents be better parents by helping them with their by helping put more money in their pockets. That was, there was nothing actually helping the parents do that, which is why we so that's like, Okay, well, let's

Jamila Souffrant 22:39

write that book, yeah, and it's so easy because, like you said, the parenting and the connection to money and how the life you want to give them, it's so connected to the sense of responsibility and guilt of okay, if you love them, you you know you want To make life soft for them, or to protect them. I know I think about this is that, well, I didn't have everything, and I did have to struggle a bit, but I think that made that. I don't think I know that's who made me who I am, and I'm more resilient, and like I see it right away with my kids, how things are so different, how they have access to more, but I'm very conscious I'm not giving them more, and, you know, spending towards our values, but it's so hard because then you see so many other people where it's just like, okay, their kids are always dressed in, you know, the nice outfits, the latest things, and have the biggest parties. And eventually, as your kids get older, no, I think no matter how much you talk to them, they still are going to recognize Hey, why can I have this? Or what about this? And so it's really, I think, is, is a journey within as a parent, to think about what you really can afford, and even if you can afford it, does it help your child to give them this soft life and everything they want?

Bryce Leung 23:55

It is amazing how the like interplay of numbers, like finance, is an interplay of numbers and emotions. Those are the two forces that are always, like, fighting each other. And it is, it is really quite interesting how that kind of, like emotional manipulation, comes into into finances and this kind of stuff. But, yeah, I mean, like, our kids childhood is going to be really different from from Christie's childhood, and we had to figure so one of the challenges that we're still struggling with this, how do we make sure this kid's not spoiled rotten, you know, like, he's already because, like, we're just, like, we're around like, all the time, like, 24/7 for him, and he's, he's, he's now been in, he's two, and he's now been in business class twice. That's pretty bad, right? I mean, like, that's, like, that's, but, like, again, that's also something we wrote about in the book. How do you get your kids in the business class seats? We're good at. We're good at it, so, so we did it, but as a result, this kid is now like,

Kristy Shen 24:46

I think that's the norm. Now he's gonna think it's normal.

Jamila Souffrant 24:49

Yeah, right. Like, I'm supposed to be flying in business class. Hey, journeyers, if you are loving this podcast, then you. Will love my book, Your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness. I wrote this book for you. This book is for you if you want a clear and enjoyable path to having more money options and a rich life, this book is for you if you hate your commute and the fact that you need to seek approval or permission from a boss. I hated that when I worked this book is for you. If you weren't born into wealth, you didn't marry rich or win the lottery, but you still want freedom. This book is for you. If you're at a crossroads, a major decision or event is imminent, maybe a career change, marriage, starting a family, pressures are reaching a tipping point, and the discomfort and the desire for more can no longer be ignored, and this book is for you. If you find yourself zoned out at meetings, looking out the window or daydreaming about the life you truly want. So go pick up your journey to financial freedom.com. So I can show you how to map out how to get from where you are today to where you ultimately want to be and enjoy the journey. While you're on the path, head over to your journey to financial freedom.com. To see where you can pick the book up. It's available on Amazon, bookshop.org, Barnes and Noble, your local bookstore everywhere, go to your journey to financial freedom.com. To get the book now. So let's go back to like the parents, because, you know the title of your book is parents like a millionaire without being one. Okay? So let's talk about some of the actual things as a parent, whether you have just found out you're, you know, are pregnant, or you already have children. How do you do that? How you how do you parent like a millionaire or parent or raise millionaires when you're not one? Shouldn't you make sure you're good first? Like, how does that work?

Kristy Shen 26:51

So one of the core concepts of the book is we like to talk about money growth as if it's an orchard. So think about it as you grow an orchard of like orange trees, but instead of cutting down the orange tree, you actually eat the oranges. So that is like a portfolio where you actually take the yield of the portfolio, so like the interest and the dividends, so that you don't actually hurt your existing growth. So what you're doing is you're actually passively letting your money work harder than you, and some of those that can pay for a lot of your childhood expenses. So the goal is not, like, I must become financially independent, or like, you know, by financial financial independence or die. That's not the point. The point is to make your life easier. So, for example, you plant a money tree in that you learn how to invest. And then the passive income, the interest and the dividends that can pay for diapers, for example, in the very beginning of your journey. And then, so like, by the 4% rule, let's say, like diapers cost you approximately $40 a month. And then over the year, it's like about $500 so then if you multiply that by 25 so you need about parent math. Okay, so 12,500 is actually the real answer. So that is the amount of money that you can invest, and then it throws off $500 passively while you're sleeping to pay for those diapers. So now you don't actually have to work in order to get that money to pay for the diapers. And now that money can be allocated towards doing something else, the money that you earn that you would have put towards diapers, and then you can grow another money tree. So you plant enough of these money trees, and all sudden, your portfolio starts generating passive income to cover your parenting expenses, so that you don't work as you don't have to work as hard, and you can actually spend time with your children.

Jamila Souffrant 28:33

Is this under the premise that you are planning ahead, though, so when you're thinking about this in terms of saving or investing for the passive income to pay for the current expense. Like, but if I have a child now I have baby, a baby now that needs Pampers. How should I think about that if I don't have the money already invested?

Kristy Shen 28:51

Yeah, so this is another journey, like, like I talk about, just like the immigrant mindset is not like instantaneous, like I become a good investor and I immediately grow this tree. It really is like having that mindset of, what can I do with my money? How can I make my money work harder than I do? And then over time, you start saving towards that goal, rather than always thinking about, like putting out fires, like always thinking about like I need to put money towards like this item, and then constantly trying to struggle towards that. So it really is a journey, and it's not supposed to be like a sudden breakthrough all these expenses that we have as parents, these are expenses that they change as the child grows, and over time, it's going to be different. So you start planting money trees towards different things, and over time, you can reallocate it towards other things, because

Bryce Leung 29:34

it's not going to be diapers forever. But you know, there's a there's a Chinese proverb that the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, and the second best time, time to plant tree is right now. So it's like, I'd like to get this information to parents before they have kids that they have time to plan. But whatever at in everyone's parenting journey that they get, that they are introduced to these concepts, as long as they get started, that's the important thing. Just the same way that we are with retirement is. Like people kind of come to us and go, Oh, yeah, but I'm not willing. I'm not a millennial. Is it too late for me? And it's like, it doesn't matter. We're millennials, and that's what we discovered. But whenever, wherever you decide to start running your race, you just go for it, because it's because, as long as you start moving in the right direction, you'll eventually get there. But if you never start moving because you're like, as too late for me, then nothing's

Jamila Souffrant 30:20

ever going to change. Okay, strategy wise. So if someone's saying to you, like Chrissy and Bryce, this all sounds great, but right now I there's no extra money like I am at the limit to where any income that I'm getting in is being spent on whatever it is they're spending it on. So I don't have additional money to invest. What do you tell them in that instant? Like, what are the steps to take to see if there's any money to invest or to save more for these things?

Bryce Leung 30:48

The big baby stuff is actually a good example of something that you could like, that you could start sick, like, extracting money out of somewhere that you're probably not spending, that you could be spending more efficiently.

Kristy Shen 30:59

Then that becomes the option like, either you optimize your expenses to figure out where you can find, like, get the same quality but for less, or you can increase your salary, right? So you look at those two equations, one of the things we talk about is how to rent things for free. So without going into the details of the entire chapter, basically there's ways to get baby gear by buying off the secondary market and then selling it for almost the same price. So in that sense, you're actually renting it for free. And a lot of people don't understand the concept of like, okay, maybe I should just buy this cheap item, because it's going to save me a lot of money, because I'm just going to buy the cheap thing instead of the expensive thing. No, it should actually be buy the more luxury good item that lasts for a really long time and holds its value. So in that sense, other people actually want this item and they actually last longer. So you're actually saving money by spending more money, because what you're doing is you're buying the quality item that will last and other people are going to want it. So you're actually buying and selling it for the same price, rather than a cheap item that may be like half that price, and it's going to break in, like, six months, and it's going to be worthless.

Bryce Leung 32:03

Yeah, kid stuff has a massive amount of turnover, because kids grow in and out of like, strollers and clothes and like toys, they get bored of it, and, like all this kind of stuff. And that's actually a very big expense for a lot of people. But if you buy new all the time, you just keep throwing it out. They're getting that enjoyment, though, of unboxing the toy, but, but it's costing you a lot of money. You can get the same enjoyment by by buying a toy that somebody else is already open and is depreciated a little bit from its new price. But if it's a luxury item, it tends to depreciate a lot from being brand new to being slightly used, and then it tends to hold its value because it's high quality and doesn't get really good damage that easily from slightly used to also slightly used. So, like, that's kind of where the sweet spot is, and that's, that's where you can get a lot of you can have a lot of money back that you can then use to spend on stuff that you, you know you that you can

Kristy Shen 32:51

another another area, another area that you can optimize on, for example, is insurance, specifically life insurance and home insurance. So some of the things people do is just like, I'm going to insure everything in my house. Well, maybe you should look at some of these things, like, maybe the jewelry and those items, like, maybe you can put it in a safe deposit box, is actually less expensive than buying the insurance to insure everything and just blindly going, Okay, let's just like, take the insurance company at whatever they're saying. I should just pay the maximum to insure everything. And then another example is life insurance. Do you buy whole life insurance or term life insurance? One of the things we like to say is, when you figure out financial independence, you don't need whole life insurance, because you just need to bridge the gap between when you actually reach that point so that the portfolio can take care of your kids, and you don't need to spend a lot of money on expensive whole life insurance. So there's actually a lot of optimizations within the parenting space that maybe parents are just not aware of. Because, you know, I get it like when you're really exhausted, you're sleep deprived, you can't think about these things. So we try to find as many of those optimizations as possible so that you get the same experience, like we're not trying to deprive you or cut back, but for a lot less.

Jamila Souffrant 33:57

And also too, it's the mindset of, Oh, your child doesn't have to open a brand new thing. They can open a slightly used or have a hand me down and change that mindset from it being like a bad thing or not as good, to it's okay because I'm not, like, I will take hand me downs or secondhand clothes any like, I'm fine. Like, I don't have an ego about that, but I know some people do, like they want certain things for their kids, and if you're not at the point where you really can't afford that you need to save money, then that's not helping your budget,

Kristy Shen 34:31

for sure. I also find it helps me be a better parent, because I don't have to worry about his clothes as much, because my son is very energetic, and he constantly destroys all his clothes, I was able to go to a thrift store and buy something where, like, you stuff a bag for as full as possible, for like, 399 and so his onesies ended up being like, 50 cents. And whenever he got mud on them and he's crawling or he's like, spitting up on them, I do not worry about it at all, because a 50 Cent onesie versus something I'd have to buy from Amazon. That's $15 is a huge difference.

Bryce Leung 35:01

I've never seen a bag under that much pressure when Christie stuffs it into the thing, because I'll take it home and I'm like, Oh, what's this? And I'll open

Speaker 3 35:10

it, I'll be like, how was there 25 pajamas in there? And she's like, 399 dishes.

Jamila Souffrant 35:16

So when it comes to investing for your kids. What are your thoughts on that? Because I get a lot of people who ask. They say, hey, how do I make sure, like, my kids are set up 529, accounts. And, you know, do they have that in Canada, like, the savings account for college like that? Yeah.

Bryce Leung 35:36

So, yeah, it's for college savings accounts and that kind of thing. So the short answer is, we kind of talk about what the optimal thing to do is on the book. It is possible to it is possible to over save as well. Like a lot of people, kind of go, Oh my God, I need to put, like, 10s of 1000s of dollars. And then they kind of panic, and they start either putting too much money into a 529 or they panic and they say, and they go, I'll never get there. So they just kind of panic and they just shut down. As it turns out, that college savings is not as difficult as you might think it would be if you start early enough, and because the nice thing about saving for college is that for it's a savings goal and an investment goal with a well defined timeframe, this kid is not going to need to touch this money for 20 years, and when you know that, that gives you a lot of flexibility in how you design that portfolio. So a 20 year timeframe is actually pretty long term investment timeframe. It allows you to do a heavily equity based, like a 9010 portfolio, or even, like 100 zero portfolio. And because over 20 year periods, the stock market has basically never lost money, and on average, has returned something like 1012, or a percent per year over rolling 20 year periods. So you can take advantage of that fact, and in fact that you know that your kid is not going to go to college until they're until they're at least 18, to design your portfolio aggressively and make it so that you don't need to put as much money into your into your portfolio. Starting out, it can really just be just like 100 bucks or 150 bucks a month into a college savings account. Can then grow to way more than you need it to be. So that, we like to call this making the stock market pay for your kids college, right?

Jamila Souffrant 37:16

And in the instance, though that, again, this is all great. If you are a planner, and you did this, you're ready to do this as your baby is born or before. But what about those who you know, the kids a little bit older? What does setting your kid up for success look like, whether that is investing or saving on their behalf like? What is your philosophy on how much you're going to help your kid or have in their accounts when they reach a certain age?

Kristy Shen 37:41

Yeah, so one of the other things we talk about is the community college detour. So a lot of people think about, like, okay, how am I going to save them for? You know, Ivy League education. And a lot of our immigrant mindset comes from that as well. Like, my mother's like, your kid needs to go to Harvard or bust. And I'm like, where is this coming from? Like, where it is a lot of that, that mindset, where it's like, there's that prestige that comes with it. So there are actually ways to get a university education for much less. And you you invest $200 a month, and you can actually get them to university. It'll cover. We go through the math of how you cover your entire university education by starting off in community college and also teaching them about the value of a degree and what is the return on investment. So one of the things I I really feel like my childhood, even though it was traumatic, in some ways, did me a huge favor, is it made me Ultra practical, and it made me realize that a degree is not for, you know, showing off. It's like I have a university degree. It is for a good return on investment. If you're going to pay this much money into a degree, it better be able to perform by the time you graduate. In our book, first book, we talk about the pot score and how you can actually calculate whether that degree is worth it. And it's sometimes really surprising, like my parents were, like, you need to be a doctor, an engineer or a lawyer. And when you do the math, it actually makes more sense, instead of being a doctor, to be a plumber or go into the trades. Because even though a doctor makes a lot of money, it costs them a ton of money to get that degree. And many, many years in school versus you get an associate degree only takes you two years. And now that degree is, you know, you can start earning money right away. You can go towards fire. And now trades are actually looking more attractive because of what's happening with AI, the path that my parents kept pushing towards me. I'm like, well, surgeons could be replaced by machines that you always wanted me to be a surgeon. You always wanted me to be an engineer. Engineers could be replaced as well, because Microsoft has started using AI to write a lot of the code. Trades are actually one of the few things that can be replaced, because you need a person physically there, and it doesn't make sense to, cost wise, to make a robot to do those things, so teaching them about the value of a degree and what that actually means, and the return on investment on a degree, I think that's something that's really important, and I find that from my childhood, making me Ultra practical, that's something that I would like to pass on to my son

Jamila Souffrant 39:57

when I think about teaching my kids. Financial lessons. There are practical ones, like how to budget and you know how to write a check, because so many kids like you know there's writing as many checks anymore, but I think about all the soft skills that they'll need to have and learn that really on the surface level, don't look like they have anything to do with money, but impact their confidence in how they will make money, to even think that they can earn money or have a good life. And so things like that, from to me, are self worth and confidence and just being a good person, knowing how to communicate and be a problem solver, asking questions, right, like sticking up for yourself, even when you're scared, all those things, to me, relate to how they can grow up and then be in the world and then navigate and look for opportunities and go after them. What are some tips around that that you have in terms of raising kids that are not necessarily financially, like base lessons, but just other things that will help help them be successful in life?

Kristy Shen 40:57

Yeah, one of the things I like is like having skin in the game, for example, like the fact that I had to pay for my tuition for university was really helpful in developing that practical mindset. So when our son is old enough to start earning money, we would like him when he wants to buy things, we would like to contribute, but I want him to put 50% in so that it's not like I'm just going to buy it for you and you don't have to do anything, like the effort is actually worth it. And I think that that will teach him resilience, like resilience, to me, is more important than happiness. Obviously happiness is also important, but I want him to have as many practical skills as possible, so that, because life is not going to be perfect, there's going to be lots of crap that is thrown your way. And I feel like developing that resilience by having skin in the game is one of the most important things for us, and when teaching lessons to him, not just financial but, you know, life lessons, right?

Jamila Souffrant 41:45

And the value of money. So my kids actually, like this week there's they like a sale going on, and so they can go and buy things that they can gift out to people in their lives. And usually, like this stuff is like things that it's like they're gonna break. They're not that valuable, but they want to go and spend their money. And now that they have been getting birthday money, Christmas money, they save it so they have money that they could spend. And my daughter, she's so smart, you know, I've been saying, if you want to go spend money at the sale, you can take your own money, because you actually have money that you can spend. So I didn't wanted them to take that much. I was like, you know, you should only take $10 and she was like, I want to take 20. Can you? Can I take 10 and you give me 10, and she's I'm like, No, I think you should take your 20 and be very mindful about just what you're spending. That's all. And so you don't have to spend the whole 20, but I think at that moment, I'll see what she does when she comes home today, how much she spent. But, I mean, I could have gave her the money, but I want her to understand that, yes, I can give you money, and you don't really care, because it's just mom's money, but this is now your money that you I can see you don't want to spend. So now, when you go shopping in this little, you know, mall at your school, how are you going to think about, like, the return and she's so I think it's little things like that that I try to do with them, where it's like teaching them the value of, yes, this is your money, but how are you going to spend it wisely in a way where it's worth it to you?

Kristy Shen 43:06

Yeah, that's actually brilliant. It's really, you're, you're helping them associate how time and money are related, because that's like a very kind of, you know, up in the air concept that's really hard for kids to understand until they actually have to work for that money. And then when it's your money, it's just like these magical pieces of paper that just comes out of nowhere. But when it's their money, they think about all the hours that they had to do chores in order to earn that money, and like, how did that money come about? And also, it's tied to time. So that's that actually a really brilliant concept that we will use also for our son, where it's like, how, how does money and time Connect? These are not just magical pieces of paper that just fall out of the sky that mommy and daddy just, like, lavish on you, right?

Jamila Souffrant 43:44

Like, they obviously, they're, they're 11, nine and seven now. So they definitely understand money. You know, they still have a lot to learn, but in their head, they're just like, Well, mom, like, they see, they know that I wrote a book about money, they think like, well, you have, don't you have a lot of money? Don't you have, like, a million dollars, and I'm like, but if I spent that today on this thing you want, or just to buy a car, how would we then go on this trip that you want to go on? Or what about in a couple years when, when we are going to need this? So it is a lot of conversation that I think that as parents, we have to be willing to have and be patient with them, to teach them because they don't understand. And so it takes a lot of back and forth and actual real talking and examples to help them.

Kristy Shen 44:27

Oh, for sure, one of the things I also found useful from my immigrant background is that my parents gave me the agency to make family decisions about finances, like when they wanted to buy a family car, when they finally had enough money to buy a family car, and it was a second hand car, they trusted me to look for a used car for them, and that was one of my first addictions to optimization. Because I was like, oh, it's not just a game. I can actually make these financial decisions that will affect my family. And then they're like, really proud of me that I'm saving them money. And then that's when I started realizing, like, how do I optimize mileage? How do I like, what kind of car last longer? And then you start. Learning those lessons without your parents having to dictate that to them to you, because you just figure it out you're on your own, and you're actually driven to do that. And then my parents actually bought the car that I ended up optimizing and figuring out for them when I was eight, and then they drove that card into the ground, because it actually, yeah, when I was eight, and then it like, lasted them so long that they like, drove it until, like, it couldn't be driven anymore. So I think let, like, giving, trusting your kids to make financial decisions for the family, by like, letting them plan your vacation, or letting them, like, pick out your used car, letting them pick out something that you know you're showing them. I trust you, and I want you to run with this, and it gives them that bit of excitement. That's like, because we're always telling our kids, like, don't do this, don't do this, don't do that, don't that. So therefore, then they have that autonomy. It's like amazing for them, and they really love you, trusting them and then giving them the autonomy to be

Jamila Souffrant 45:47

able to do that. So now that you have you know your son, so you have to factor him into your financial plan and your financial independence journey. Do you feel like you have to save and invest more now to include him in the plan as he gets older, like you said, there's gonna be different expenses. He's gonna have a mind of his own and want to do different things, maybe pick up an expensive hobby or sport. What does that look like in terms of how you earn money? So I know that you guys are retired and we're traveling the world, but do you now feel like you have to earn more money and actively work again to help include him in the plan? Or how do you work that out as you go along?

Kristy Shen 46:22

Yeah, kids are definitely not cheap. But the thing is, they're not as expensive as the statistics make them out to be. So one of the things we talk about the book is the USDA number. So USDA, when you adjust it for inflation, the USDA says it will cost approximately $300,000 to raise a child to the age of 18. So that scared the crap out of me. Like, even after retiring, I'm like, Oh my God, that's so much money. Like, I'm going to need a crazy amount of portfolio to be able to support this kid. That's, like, extra money I didn't budget for but what's interesting is, when you break down the USDA numbers, you discover that the more money you make, the more kids cost. So when they actually look at families with higher earnings, they look at their expenses, and it's higher. And then you start wondering, like, did the kids suddenly become expensive? All sudden, when you get a raise, they just, like, suddenly, like, something happens, they become expensive. Or is this just another form of lifestyle creep? And then after having him, I realized that it's actually definitely not cheap, I have to say, but it's definitely not to the level that I was expecting based on all these statistics, and that there's a lot of fear mongering that goes on with like, this is not going to be so expensive. You're never going to be able to afford it. So I want to see it take this. I don't want to be naive about it. I don't want to be like, Oh yeah, kids will just figure it out it's fine. Like, you still have to budget for that amount of money. And they definitely are not cheap. But having that mindset of practicality, which is like, okay, instead of just following the herd again and then saying, like, I have to buy a house now that the minute I get pregnant, must go buy a house. That's a lot of the people around me, because they live in a major metropolitan city where everybody's just like, you know, that's the adulting check off checkbox that you need to check off. I decided to to rent for the first year of his life, and I'm still renting, and I find that that frees me up to not worry about finance, worry about maintenance, and when I did the finances, it actually was in favor of renting. That doesn't always it's not always true. Sometimes it's in favor of buying you you have to do the math, but knowing that, it gives me a lot of comfort to actually dig down into the statistics and figure out what is actually important and what is, you know, what society says it's important versus what's important to you. And I say absolutely, spend the money if that is towards your values. And you know, you feel like that's really good for your family, you got to do what's best for your family. But just being aware of, there's a lot of societal pressure, and there's a lot of pressure from big baby, to to like, kind of tap into that insecurity of parents, to be like, Okay, if you don't buy this, you don't love your children. Do you not love your children? Don't you want to give them stability? Why would you not buy this for them? Like to kind of, you know, separate that versus like. I think that this is taking him traveling. You know, that sounds frivolous to a lot of people, but for me, I want him to learn multiple languages. I want him to see different cultures that's important to me. I'm going to do that. I'm going to pay for Mandarin lessons, because I believe it's important for him to know his culture and know his language, like that type of thing, where I want to spend towards something that's important to me, not something that society says you should spend on. It's made us a lot more relieved about how kids how much kids cost, and they don't necessarily have to cost as much as what other people say they cost.

Bryce Leung 49:23

Yeah, other people can make decisions about their kids based on their values. For example, My sister loves hockey like she's a huge hockey mom sends both her kids to hockey. They go, they go to, like, special hockey camps and training, and it costs an arm and a leg, and that's great, because that makes them happy. But that doesn't mean that that's all you have to do,

Jamila Souffrant 49:41

right, right? And so it's really value based and just thinking, just being introspective, like the idea of having kids and then needing a bigger space, which, you know, I'm not going to discount, that that will be nice if, you know, if you have a larger family, like having more room, but also, like, more room comes with more things to clean and maybe more cost, and they're all. Of things associated with that versus a smaller space and making that work too. And then the other thing, as you were talking, brought up like, private school at one point for my oldest son, we were just exploring private schools as an option in addition to the public schools, and he got into a couple private schools. And then whatever they thought they were giving me in financial aid was not going to work financially. We would have to be like, we'd have no additional money to do anything else. And as I ran the numbers, I was just like this for us, just does not make sense. So, you know, luckily, we found a great alternative, like public school that he's in, that I'm so happy with. But some parents might say to themselves, you know what that work? That that is a value that we are going to spend on, and it works for them, but understanding and thinking through when you're making these financial decisions, how much is going to stretch your family the pros and cons of it like really thinking it through, not because of what it looks like to other people, but based on your values, based on really what you can afford and do.

Bryce Leung 50:54

Yeah, private school is a great example of something that people will spend a lot of money on, but one of the questions that we asked in the book is that we actually address private school like, are you actually getting any value of it because you're spending a lot of money? There's public schools that's kind of like your free baseline, and there are certain public schools where safety is an issue, right? You never want to compromise on your child's safety, but if you were to look at academic performance and, like, over the course of the child's life, they found that whether they go into private school or public school didn't really have that much an effect. What does have a much bigger effect on whether that kid goes to college is whether the parent is actively involved in their education, right? So, like, if the parent actually cares about what's going on in school, whether it's public school or private school, they're willing to, like, jump in if they need help on homework or if they don't understand something, or maybe get special tutoring or whatever, if the parents care, that's what's make the difference, not whether you spend money on a private school.

Kristy Shen 51:50

Actually, a perfect example of that is him and me. He went to a private school. I went to a public school, and not a really great one, because there was almost a shooting at my school, and we ended up in the same university, same college, so and getting the same degree. So I mean, it's like my parents really cared about education because they had to struggle through like a famine and all that stuff. So yeah, you can get the same results. And I would say that my parents got a much better return on investment because they spent so little money.

Bryce Leung 52:16

So I just tell people, the fact that you care to send your kid to private school means that you're a good parent. It means you care, right? I mean, like that, you're you're trying to you're trying to, like you're trying to do what's best for your kids education, but the fact that you care is enough. You don't actually need to spend the money, right?

Jamila Souffrant 52:29

Especially, especially if you could find an alternative, and you just really think about your family situation. Because once I not only was the tuition like a concern, but then I thought about all the extra things outside of that where, you know, it's who his new friend circle would need to be, and what that looked like, and that cost and those expectations. And I'm just like, Okay, there's other things that I know I can do with my free time, because I have financial freedom where I can make up for this, which costs a fraction of what I would pay for the tuition.

Bryce Leung 53:02

I grew up around a lot of really rich kids and, like, because of private school, and it's not always a good thing. Like the guys in my fancy private school would, like, drop a bunch of, like, food onto the floor, and then the teacher would be like, Hey, man, pick that up. And then he'd be like, No, that's the janitor's job. What are we paying this for? And I was like, Man, this guy is, you know that those are the people that you have to, like, undo the influence, like the bad influence of. So this is a great example of you're paying money to make more work for yourself, like you're paying money for worse results. That's the last you never want to take those deals,

Jamila Souffrant 53:34

right, right, right. Chrissy and Bryce, please tell everyone more about your book. Who should buy it when it's coming out, and where to get it.

Kristy Shen 53:42

So our new book is called parent like a millionaire without being one. It will be out March 3, wherever books are sold. And we hope with this book that we will make your lives easier as a parent, because we know that with when it comes to parents, no one works harder than you. I am so in awe of parents after I became one, because I'm like, This is so much work, and I have respect for every parent out there, and like every single one of you should get a reward, get award with

Bryce Leung 54:09

a special award for single parents, I would Jesus. Oh my god. I don't know how they do it, because of juggling every we're just the two of us, and we're full time parenting one kid, and we're like, this is an insane amount of work, if you like, if it was a single parent, it just, just, yeah, yeah,

Jamila Souffrant 54:26

totally, yes. Single parents who are working full time, like, our hats go off to you. Please tell me one of your website. I'll link everything in the show notes. But where they can go if they're listening to this, for

Kristy Shen 54:37

sure, yeah. You can contact us at WWW dot millennial revolution.com, just hit the contact link and we'd love to hear from you.

Jamila Souffrant 54:46

Got it all right? Thank you so much. Christy and Bryce, it was great catching up. I'm so like, happy for you guys. You're, you know, evolving financial journey and live so congrats on everything.

Kristy Shen 54:57

Thanks so much for having us. So great to see you again.

Bryce Leung 54:59

And. And again, congratulations on your book. We we loved reading it, and we're so happy for your success as well. Thank you. Watch this podcast grow from like episode 11 now to the juggernaut that it is. And I'm like, wow, look and

Kristy Shen 55:12

you're doing that with three kids. I'm like, she is amazing. I just, yeah, good job.

Jamila Souffrant 55:18

Thank you. Thank you. Don't forget, you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this and you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch.com/jumpstart

Jamila Souffrant 55:40

if you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode, and if you're happening to listen to this in Apple podcasts, rate review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm at journey to launch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, and I love, love, love interacting with journeyers. There three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here, so show them some love for supporting your girl four. And last but not least, share this episode, this podcast, with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to launch. All right, that's it until next week. Keep on journeying. Journeyers. You.

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