Episode 467: Caregiving for Loved Ones & Entrepreneurship While Building Financial Freedom w/ Keisha Wilson

Keisha Wilson 0:02

After that, they put the immediate emergency declaration sign on the door, and that was it. It was like it is unsafe. They weren't sure if it was going to collapse at any moment. Sometimes you never know. You truly have to value life every day, and that's to show you how life could be gone in that instance, but then how certain things that you viewed as your material thing, they're not worth it as much as a life.

Speaker 1 0:32

Welcome to the journey. To launch podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant as a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in 54321,

Jamila Souffrant 0:59

if you want the episode. Show Notes for this episode. Go to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. In the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned, and so much more. Also, whether you are an OG journeyer or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes to listen to, stages to go through to reach financial freedom resources and so much more you can go to journey to launch.com/jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode. Hey, hey, hey, journeyers, welcome to the journey to launch Podcast. I'm Jamila Souffrant, your host, and today we have a special guest. I feel like I always say my guests are special, but that's how I really feel, really, really feel what I really feel it today because we have on Keisha Wilson. She's the founder and CEO of kW advanced Consulting and a nationally recognized expert in healthcare compliance and revenue cycle management, with nearly 30 years of experience, she's an AAPC approved instructor, conference speaker, specialist in coding, auditing, telehealth, risk adjustment. I can keep going beyond her professional work. Keisha journey as a caregiver has been deeply personal. As a devoted daughter of a mother who has faced post concussion syndrome and stage four cancer, she understands firsthand the challenges families navigate. She's also the author of a brand new book by her side, a daughter's guide to caregiving with faith and love, which we'll be all talking about. So welcome to the podcast, Keisha. Thank you, Jamila, so happy to be here. So I got to give this background, because the reason why this is really special for me to have Keisha on the show is that Keisha and I went to high school together. We were friends way back when, at in high school, it looked like me in high school. I know right. Check us out, and I don't know if we're going to be able to share the video, because we I had so many technical difficulties getting this together and starting. So I'm actually using one of my kids computers, but Keisha, I just remember you like just to go back a bit, because we met in high school, and, you know these, I don't know how many years later is. It's like years, years, right? Like decades. And one thing we kept in touch, and we were cool back in high school, but one thing I always remembered about you, and I have to say, because I don't meet many people like you, is that you were always so nice, like, I mean, genuinely, you're just a nice person, like, with a genuine spirit, and you've always been that way. And I see that it's still true today. And so I'm really just glad that you know, to hear all the things you've been doing, and I really wanted you to come on the show to talk about your your book and your experiences in life, taking care of your mother, plus, I want to hop into your entrepreneurial journey too. So thank you so much for coming on the show.

Keisha Wilson 4:09

Thank you for having me. Yeah, it's been a journey since high school, and then I went to junior high with your husband, yeah?

Jamila Souffrant 4:17

So that's another thing. I'm stuck in the family. You are, you are, so, yeah, Keisha went to middle school, junior high school with my husband, and that's crazy. We didn't even know that. I feel like I forgot when I found that obviously after we had met in college. But less like, how small Brooklyn is that sometimes you just know each other. So I want to get into Keisha. You know, we went to Murrow together in Brooklyn. I went on to go to Delphi University. Can you talk about kind of your journey, like, Where'd you go for college? What did you get as your degree, and how you got into your career? Awesome.

Keisha Wilson 4:55

Yes. So I went on to St John's for a little bit. Maybe, like a year and a half, and then I transferred to New York City College of Technology. My undergrad was in Human Services. I was going to school to be a social worker, and I got into a master's program for social work. But then someone told me about medical coding, and I was already working in the health field, I started working front desk, really young. So that's why I said 30 years because I was a teenager, I think that was like my second job. I was a friend that's an outpatient mental health organization clinic, and I'll put a pin in there and tell you guys about that in a second. So someone told me about coding, and I did like a 360 I went on to do coding, and I fell in love, but the foundation that I got from social work helped me in healthcare and in coding. Because I went on to do coding. I was a compliance manager in the hospital system, an interim director. I did auditing. I went on to become certified compliance officer, auditor. So I was doing a lot of teaching when it comes to physician education and teaching coding. And then I was consulting part time. And I had a friend that said, Okay, why don't you, you know, think about doing this yourself, you know, bet on yourself, he said. And I was like, Ah, okay. And I was like, Okay, I'll start, you know, I believe in vision boards. I put it on the vision board, and like, December of whatever year it was, I can't even remember. And then, like, six months later, okay, yeah, so it was 2021, six months later, I decided to start the LLC, and not knowing that the job I was currently in, like, two weeks later, they decide to outsource our department, which is crazy, because it happens, right? So I was like, Okay, God, I'll start the business. Give myself three years. And he was like, Nope, I'm giving you two weeks. So after that, just started working on the business. I poured my heart and soul into late nights building the website. I built the website. Same friend was like, here's the tools. This is what you do. Not figure it out. So I built the website. I watched so many videos on business like, You got to research in healthcare, you got to research. I have old colleagues that say from now, like, you know you're the best person that knows how to research, so you can't wait for someone to do it for you. So the research helped. And then I formed kW events consultant, and so I decided to do what I was doing in healthcare, but now do it on my own. You know, I was able to make decisions, create my schedule. And it happened that it was the same year my mom got diagnosed with a cancer. So it just worked out that I was able to take her to appointments and sit there and I would be with my laptop working, go home, work until like, three, four in the morning, and just figure it out. So I got to, you know, kind of build it in a way. And that outpatient mental health clinic, I sit on their board of directors now. So it was like, 26 years later, they came back and asked me to sit on their board, and I sit on the audit committee and compensation. So I always tell students, and when I speak at conferences, that you never know who's watching. You know they were looking. They came back. And so it's such an honor to work because they started off as a small organization, and now, you know they've expanded, and they're huge, and so be able to bring my experience to their board is amazing. So that's the short version of how it all started.

Jamila Souffrant 8:29

Yeah, well, I have questions, because I love I love that journey. So I love that you went to school initially you thought you were going to be a social worker, which tracks with your personality and how giving and caring you are. And so I know there is just, you know, the career paths for social workers sometimes, like, that's not a field that people think that you can make a lot of money, or maybe it's limited. But I also know that sometimes there are so many outlets and other ways to use your degree as a stepping stone to do something else to where you can make money. So I'm really curious to learn more about coding. So can you explain, like, what coding is? Because I also find it really cool that you were open to other opportunities, and then, like, you also pivoted when you, you know, saw something else that was plausible for you. So can you talk about discovering coding, what coding is, because I want to kind of open the minds for people listening who never thought about that as something to do, and how they can get into it.

Keisha Wilson 9:28

Awesome. Yes. So medical coding, and I like that you asked that, because everyone always gets it confused with the computer coding, like you're coding like building websites. So now I know how to code two things. I know how to do medical coding and coding for the website, but medical coding is translating medical necessity, like when you go to a doctor's visit, the doctor sees you, examines you, then he puts diagnosis codes and a visit procedure codes, or we like to call it evaluation and management services. So whatever he's doing that. Day that's being translated into codes, ICD 10 codes, CPT Hicks fix, and that's what the insurance company is getting. So as medical coders, some doctors code for themselves and put the diagnosis and procedures, but then you have individual coders who are reading the documentation, and then they're now selecting the appropriate diagnosis codes and CPT procedure codes and evaluation depending on what the doctor document, and then that's going to the insurance company. So in one aspect, you have to know how to code before you can know how to educate a physician and tell them, because they are like, listen, we didn't go to school for this, so they need someone to come teach them. And then also, as an auditor, before you go on to audit, you need to know how to code. So you have the coders, and then you also have the billers, who are separate medical billers. And they then take the visit and they make sure it's clean and everything is on there properly, and then they send it out to the insurance companies. And so with that, the job is important, because you have to understand medical terminology, anatomy, physiology, and able to be able to read a document, surgical notes, and then translate it over to codes. So it's a process. When I went for school for I think the course was about like eight months, and then you have to sit for a certification exam. They have shortened the time before used to be like five and a half hours. I think now it's four hours, 100 questions. But it is intense people. Some people pass on first time. Some people don't, but I truly love it. And to go back with what you said with the social worker, that foundation helped me to teach, to teach coders. So I was able to take what I learned, that soft skills that you don't know how to not everyone has, and be able to communicate with coders, with physicians, because they're not the easiest students. So you really have to have a great personality to be able to do what you do.

Jamila Souffrant 12:09

Yeah, okay, so I, again, I'm loving understanding more about coding. And so in the capacity that you worked, you worked for a company like you were employed by a company who would send you or connect you with doctor's offices to do the coding for them. Yeah.

Keisha Wilson 12:24

So initially I worked for the hospital system. So I worked for two big hospitals, teaching hospitals in New York City. And so I those two big hospitals, I worked for their compliance departments, bless you. And so in one hospital, I had two dual roles, like a clinical documentation improvement specialist. So I went out, I would review the records, audit the records, and then I would have a list of providers, 1000s to provide education. And in that time, it wasn't really virtual, so I was hopping on the subway and going all the way uptown and coming back and doing education so helping them to improve. And then the other hospital, same thing, compliance. Those education, you know, everyone, compliance gives that entire hospital education, from coders to physicians to nurse practitioners. So residents starting, we had to train them when they became when they transitioned from residents to an attending. We had to train them because documentation is different. Yeah.

Jamila Souffrant 13:25

So how long ago was this that you got into the field, got your certification?

Keisha Wilson 13:30

It's been over like 15 years now, okay? And then now this year makes four years for starting the business.

Jamila Souffrant 13:36

Is it now like if someone wanted to get into that today? How expensive is it like to get the specialization? Do you need an undergrad degree? And then how did you like? Is this a demand job, or is it something that's being taken over by AI? Because I think that is a fair for just a lot of future careers. Is that? What can you know the computer do that? You can do that. They could take over, right?

Keisha Wilson 14:04

And I like that question, so it's high in demand. I always tell anyone, when you're looking to change careers, you want to research. So you want to research. See what jobs are out there. There are a lot of physicians that are burdened, they are tired, they burnt out. So a lot of organization now are realizing that they should invest in coders, medical coders, to be able to relieve the physicians of that data. They happen to see the patient and then now document and try to code for themselves. They also realize that investing in coders, they see a return in revenue, because now you have someone who's really looking at the accuracy being able to follow up, then a physician's tired and like, I just got 10 minutes, I'm going to select whatever codes this is. So this is why, when some patients go to the doctor, they get denials, because the insurance, what the insurance got the codes is not necessarily a. Lining and matching with the medical necessity, why you saw the doctor, and sometimes patients have to appeal and the doctors have to send in notes. So now hiring coders relieve that burden, depending on how you take it. So I do have a license, so I teach, I teach for AAPC as their instructor, but I also hold a license. So I'm one of the educational providers, so I pay a license every year to also teach certain courses on my own under the business. So I teach the medical auditing one, and I teach the certified risk adjustment one, which is like focused heavy on a lot of diagnosis coding. But for those that's just starting out, they want to focus on CPC, which is a certified professional coder that is the basics that's going to teach you about anatomy, terminology and all the books that you need to use, the ICD, 10, CPT Hicks fix, depending on the program, it's about 16 weeks. It's a few $1,000 maybe there's different packages. So I see, depending on, if you take it with an educational provider or a PC, they have a package where you can take another course. You can bundle courses, and so maybe for an online for like 3000 you know, 4000 maybe with books, depending on you could go through this 16 week course, and then it prepares you to sit for the exam, which is four hours. I will say it helps, because you can move in different states, you can work virtually. We started off in person, but now, because of covid, a lot of companies have gone virtual, so that's an option as well.

Jamila Souffrant 16:40

And what's the pay like? I mean, I know there's levels to it, but is it, yeah, what's the pay?

Keisha Wilson 16:45

So when they start off, they're usually making it depends, I would say it depends on the state you're in. But you may start off between like 30 and 40,000 but you can also, and that's maybe, I would say like 40. I would say at least 40,000 and then you can work your way up, depending on the more certifications, the more experience. I remember, the different jobs I left, I always left for like, 15 to 20% more. And of course, I went into management. You don't have the new acts. You don't have to have an undergrad. You can have high school diploma, and that's fine to take the certification classes, but I knew I wanted to be in leadership, so I you know, you want to look at that. I needed a degree for that. So that set me apart when that came about. So I would say about 40,000 but you can work your way up quickly as medical auditors. I think when I left corporate, I was already in six figures, like the middle of six figures, and that's good leadership. So that helps as well,

Jamila Souffrant 17:49

and now you have your own business. So what was that transition like? Because I know having a business is like, not easy, and it takes more work, because it's you, you do everything. So did you already leave and have a lineup of of customers and people you were going to serve now that you looking back because you've been doing this for years now, is, was it worth the jump to be on your own and control everything or just get the salary and paycheck?

Keisha Wilson 18:19

I like that because we always get questions like, I have students like, Oh, I'm gonna start my own business. And it's not easy, because you're going from a weekly or bi weekly paycheck to no paycheck. So you really need to sit and do I always like to put graphs and do charts. Can you really afford to do this because now, as a business owner, you're pouring a lot of resource and funds into your business to start off. As you said, you're the only person doing everything, so there's a lot of work that it entails. Remember, I said I was at three, four o'clock in the morning. I also applied for different grants. Sometimes you'll get grants, sometimes you don't having great credit helps, because to start a business account, you got to put business, you know, money, into the business account. But you can apply for credit cards, business credit cards, which helps when you're starting off with certain things you have to pay, like the license that I had, might have certain yearly certifications to organizations that I must keep that are a few $100 like four to $500 so that's money there regarding clients, I would say so even the hospitals that I worked at, despite whatever they know the work that you produce. So I actually have had multiple conversations and meetings and proposals that was submitted, because they never forget the type of person that you are right you said, the kindness and everything, and then that helps, because the physicians always remember you. So I have gone back to work or even submit proposals to these places, even then. I made a list. So I'm huge again, with list, I mapped out all the hospitals, doctor's office in New York City, the Bronx queens, you name it. And I would literally, I created pamphlets, and I would drive around to get clients. So I had a, I have a business mentor, do score. And she told me, not every decision maker is behind the computer. Sometimes you have to come out, and you have to drive around, and you have to go in person so that they can meet you. So I did that to get clients. My first initial clients came from word of mouth who people who know I was in the business, know what I did, and had physician starting practices. So I was able to go and have clients that I have two clients that started telehealth practice internationally. So in the Caribbean, they started a practice in Barbados, and then another one in Jamaica, and it was a lot of research helping them open something internationally. So I took what I did in compliance and had to translate that because it's the same, but now you have to do international laws. So if you thought healthcare in the United States was hard, Oh, forget it. The Caribbean is like, 10 times harder when it comes to restriction. So I got clients that way. Word of mouth, social media, I post on all platforms. Algorithms are funny, so sometimes people would see you, sometimes they won't, and I got students that way, or even they found me on Google. So it's important to keep posting, even though you see no one's looking or you think they're not liking it, they're seeing it.

Jamila Souffrant 21:33

Yeah, that people are watching so and to be clear, so you're part of your business is to like you. You have customers or clients that you still service through compliance and coding, then you also, you're teaching people also how to open their own practices or businesses or start the coding careers.

Keisha Wilson 21:54

So it's so funny, it's like a mix. So under the consulting part, my main focus was to do what I did in compliance, which is physician education, audit coding. I don't do the day to day coding, but teaching coders how to code. And then a part of the consulting also is because I'm certified as an auditor and compliance officer, I have clients that are doctors that are looking to venture out on their own, so they're looking to start a practice. And how do I do that? Or they may be in practice, and they need a consultant to come in and assess. Am I doing what I'm supposed to do? Be doing? Can you do an audit, or telehealth just came out. We know nothing about it. Can you come and train the physicians on how to code properly document to make sure that we don't have to refund the government, you know, because we didn't code something properly. And so I have clients that it's so funny. It varies from different things. I also write policies and procedures. So I had an other set of clients that started a practice, and they were new, so they have no policies. So I remember, I wrote about 21 policies and procedures from them, from everything you could think about, from front desk to registration, how do we refund something if there's fraud, waste and abuse? I educate a lot about that. And so I always feel like every project that comes is a little different, but that is, yeah, I do a lot. I would say,

Jamila Souffrant 23:22

Yeah, you sound very busy, and I hope very well paid at this point, like, having your business, I hope that, like, part of the question was, you know, when you look back at it and we're going to transition a bit into your caregiving role that you're in, because I know that's a big part of, like, the flexibility you have, but getting that paycheck that steady, you knew what to expect every other week versus what's happening now. Are you satisfied, despite whatever challenges there were to get here and what you probably still have to face like, is it worth it?

Keisha Wilson 23:52

Yes, and I would say it is, know that in the first year, you may not see anything that much so you now you're kind of living off of maybe what you had in your savings, or the savings that depleted, but that's where you constantly have to keep going, hitting the ground, hitting the pavement, looking for clients. Speaking. The first few speaking engagements I did were free, and then at one point, my business mentor was like, that is it? You cannot do any more speaking for free, because one that's your intellectual property, that is the information that you have for you know that people want. And so yes, now we have the speaking engagements, the conferences I initially applied, and I heard no's. At first, I heard three no's, and I always talk about that, and then I heard a yes. And from there, it's like been yeses. From then chapter meetings. So I speak there. And then also the pay, you know, with the proposals, you have to do a lot of research also to make sure that you're being fair. And then sometimes you may say no, you may hear no, because people like, well, you're too expensive. Positive, but you also know your worth and your value and the integrity that you're bringing to this organization. So again, my friend always tells me, well, if they said no, then it wasn't meant to be, because you know your worth, and so sticking to that. So I've seen the numbers increase significantly, but that's because I'm always working, and I'm trying to set it up in a way that it can run itself. You know, I can have other teachers under my license teaching, but again, I'm picky with who does the work. So I can, though, because I hold the license, I can get probably at least up to eight instructors under me, if I want.

Jamila Souffrant 25:38

Eventually, I love that. Oh my gosh. So I hope this is inspiring, and someone listening, maybe who didn't understand this was a career path, a way to make money, an area to look into more and of course, I'll link all the keisha's websites and information if you wanted to follow up with her. What I really want to now talk about is this the caregiving side of your journey, because I remember, and you could get into, like, what happened, but I remember we had a conversation on the phone, I don't know how long it was, maybe a couple, like, last year or two years, and you were talking about early last year, yeah, about writing a book. And then that's when I discovered all the things that you were going through, and it all started with an unfortunate explosion. I mean, it started before that, it seems. But if you could just kind of maybe walk us through that journey, because I find that hearing it and then seeing what you've been doing has just been remarkable,

Keisha Wilson 26:37

yes, and I was like, It's so crazy how time flies. And I didn't even talk about the explosion in the book. I feel like that's a whole nother book in itself. But yes, on 20 August, 29 of 2024 my neighbor's house had a gas leak and gas explosion. And on our block, the houses are all connected, so we were connected on left and the right. We lived there for 20 years, and the explosion was so significant that it blew through three of their floors and out to our house, so the wall split open like an earthquake. And I had just gotten home from speaking at APC health con in Philly. And PA, sorry, I just got home five hours before, and I was sitting there working on Bible study, and mom was upstairs, and all of a sudden I hear this huge explosion, and I look back and I see a bright light, and I was like, wait a minute, so my back door just like, explode in the windows, and I hear crashing on top of my head and screaming, but I'm not sure what it is. So then I go outside and I see everything on my car, so it's like, all their windows, doors, everything blew open, and then, like, wait a minute, this house exploded. It was just dark. It was you hear sirens, and then you see the curtains blowing. So like a real eerie movie, and I see my mom outside screaming barefoot. And the Barefoot is an issue because a healthy person a nurse, but she has diabetes, you know, or had diabetes, so she's borderline now. But anyone with diabetes, they have to be careful when it comes to their feet. They have to do like feed it foot exams every year, so any cuts can turn into something worse. And so I'm seeing her in this glass everywhere, and she's screaming. So she thought the house was gonna collapse on me. She thought it was an earthquake, and I was downstairs. And so thankfully, we made that alive. It was all over the news. My neighbors, they made it out. I think now as we speak, maybe one person did pass away. For when I know they had to cut the ladies from upstairs out of the roof because the stairs blew out so there was no way for them to get out. And then the guys in the basement, you know they were, you know, they came out, and then they took them away. So it was so crazy. And then the city required our house to be completely demolished with everything in it, so that day was the last day we weren't able to go back and get anything. So that was like, my mom was just, like, a year post cancer, when that happened, going through treatment, and then now she lost her house. And I'm like, This is crazy. So we were thankful to be alive. We were in a hotel, then we were in a rental for a bit, and that whole journey with homes, that's probably like another podcast. But, you know, you think your house is supposed to be built back, and then you go through other stuff with insurances that other people in the United States are dealing with now too. So things don't really happen the way it should, right?

Jamila Souffrant 29:48

Oh my gosh. So Keisha, like so if so, I remember hearing that on the news one it was a big thing when it happened on the news, like a house, like with the gas explosion. And then when we spoke, I. I was like, what that was, you like, that was like, You were impacted by that. And then, you know, you you revealed about your mother and, and I'm just like, oh, like, my like, gosh. And so that was a lot. And I think for anyone thinking, like, Okay, you have everything one moment, like, everything is fine, and in the split second, not even by cause of your own, but like someone else, and you know, whether like not blaming anyone, but not even something you did, you were just in proximity to an accident, and that could happen, and everything be taken, like all your physical possessions in your home gone,

Keisha Wilson 30:36

some things I had because they were in my trunk, because I just came back so and then the firemen, they were so amazing. I remember one, I think the chief was his last day at work. Fireboxes. People are important. She had a firebox on her documents. We knew where that was. They were able to grab that. And I was able to tell them where my documents were, and they were able to grab that. And so we were super thankful for that, because after that, they put the immediate emergency declaration sign on the door, and that was it. They was like, it is unsafe. They weren't sure if it was going to collapse at any moment. And a lot of people didn't know. I feel like it taught me a few things. Sometimes you never know. You truly have to value life every day. So besides my mom, which we're going to talk about going through stage four cancer a year before, now, you're talking about losing your home and all your belongings and everything that you worked so hard for over the years. And that's to show you how life is just can be gone in an instance, but then how certain things that you viewed as your material thing, they're not worth it as much as a life after you experience something like that.

Jamila Souffrant 31:49

Thank you for sharing that. And I know you have a bit more to share too, because your project, the book that you called me about wanting to write, you wrote, and so one, I'm so proud of you, because there are so many people who have ideas and want to do things, and it's a thought, not, not everyone follows through. And you, you follow through. So when you hit me up and said, Hey, like, I finished the book, like, I have a book, here it is. And then I went to your website, I'm like, Wow, this looks great. Like, I was like, I want to have you on the show to talk about your journey, because being a caregiver, and I know you're a woman of faith. You there's a lot of lessons right taking care of your mom, just the emotional and the financial responsibilities that you've had to take on. Can you talk a bit about that and why you wanted to write this book?

Keisha Wilson 32:34

Yes, and so thank you for answering the call. I was like, Wait a minute. I have an idea. And so God had gave me this idea to write this book for a while. So even before and I talked about in the book, my mom went through a few things over the last few decades. She had a little bit of section in 98 and I was in junior high school then, so my caregiving kind of started earlier from then, then she had the concussion in 2018 and I was, I talk about that as well. It was, she was a nurse, a registered nurse in the hospital, and an alcohol patient could in the head. And from that, that led to short term memory and everything that comes with post concussion syndrome that you can think of memory like vomiting frequent emergency rooms. I worked in a hospital, and I frequent the ER, more than many times I could think or like and then we have the cancer that she went through, the stage four cancer. And so I would say, I want to say a few things there. One, opinions matter. This was a third opinion that found the diagnosis. And she said, Keisha, I know my body something's wrong. And so I was always documenting everything from the concussion, and then when the diagnosis happened, like my phone is filled with dates and everything. So God placed on my heart then to write the book. But I was like, No, I don't, you know, I don't really want to write and be transparent. It's hard. As a caregiver. You go through a lot. You may not be the person's favorite person, because now you're taking care of someone who's been independent and whose job was to take care of other people her entire life, her kids, her patients, and now you have to take care of this person. So that was hard. And so this idea guy gave me this idea, and I was always writing one. I wrote in elementary school essays and everything, and I write coding articles for my business as well as other places. So I write people are not shocked. I'm sure many people are not shocked, because they're like, she's always writing code and articles. So it just made sense. But then I reached out to you because you wrote your book, and I was so thankful. I think I was one of like those already called early people to kind of read through it. So I was like, Who better to ask?

Jamila Souffrant 34:57

Yes, wait. I'm like, I can't believe I forgot about. Okay, I gotta mention this. So yes, thank you for inviting me, and we'll hop back into your story. But yes, Keisha, so I remember, when I was first drafting, writing the book, I followed this method that I had early readers who helped, who read it before it was done, like who was reading it while I was writing it. Keisha being the amazing person she is, like, when I reached out, she was like, Yes, I'll do it. And she gave me legit feedback on, like, what I was writing, or like, did this make sense? And I don't know how many chapters actually, like I did that maybe with the first, like, three or four chapters. And then I kind of, like, was like, Okay, I got to get this done. But I just want to thank you, because I totally forgot that you were, like, a reader, early reader in draft mode, and that really helps. So thank you. Just thank you awesome.

Keisha Wilson 35:47

I was honest. I was like, of course I would. So I thought about that, and I was like, Oh, let me ask you, because you wrote a book and you gave guidance, you should, you know, podcast, different things to listen to, and I had already started, because after the explosion, God was like, You got nothing but time to sit and write. You know, when we were in the hotel, and then we went to the temporary apartment that we were renting. I was I went through like trauma, where I wasn't leaving the house, like it was just and we were staying a block away from where our house was. So even going out to the seeing neighbors, seeing the house, opening the window across the street, was homes that looked just like ours. So it was almost like PTSD, in a way, until I had to, like, pray and get over it. So that was like, you have time to write so people, like, with everything I'm going on, when did you find time? Because no one knew, unless I told them I still worked. I think in the news, they have me on camera. I was in the meeting. I had just signed some clients, and they knew what happened, but they still needed work done. So I'm literally on the sidewalk in a meeting on my laptop when the fire people are behind me, trying to figure stuff out. I still taught. The next day, my students didn't know. My APC manager was like, Hey, we can get a self for you. I was like, nope. I taught them. This was their last day. I wanted to be there to wish them the best on the exam. I wanted to show up. And I remember at one point I had to turn the camera off because the tears just started coming out my eyes like it was, like, automatic so, and then, you know, I got through it. So people don't know. A lot of people in healthcare are not finding out what happened, because I still spoke at conferences, I still showed up for my clients, my students, and writing the book. There was time I couldn't sleep, so I'll just be up writing if I got tired of writing. Because I was writing all day, I downloaded a dictation app, and I would talk to it, email it to myself, and then I will put it together. But it took time and dedication. And what my friends keep saying that you're that person who always get things done, so despite what happened, I'm going to do it. If I said I'm going to do I'm going to research and I'm going to do it. And so when you said that, yeah, like, again later, I'm like, guess what? I did it. And even with the website. I was like, Okay, I build the website for the business. I can build a website for the book. And I wanted to be more than a book. I wanted to be a resource for caregivers, because we don't often have and know where to go. So I created the website where they can go on there and get different things. So besides the book, it like translate to real life.

Jamila Souffrant 38:25

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Keisha Wilson 40:17

So it's a lot, I would say, with caregiving, we are in a space. And this was confirmation that I knew that I was supposed to write the book. I kept coming in contact with caregivers. So besides going with mom to her appointments and seeing a waiting room full of people, I kept running into them, and they kept telling me stories, and I'm like, Okay, I know I'm supposed to write this so as caregivers, you are now taking care of someone who, whether it's a child, a family member, a spouse, a mother or father, who is unable to take care of themselves, or maybe in Some capacity, because they're going through something, whether it's chronic and you know, CMS the center of Medicare and Medicaid Services, they define a chronic condition as something that lasts at least 12 months or until the death of the patient. So you're not taking care of someone who has either a chronic condition or something acute that just came about where they can't necessarily care for their selves or go to the appointments or understand certain things, and so you're putting your needs, your wants, your desires, you kind of putting it to the side and taking care of this person. Not everyone can do it, because I do have friends that say, Keisha, I can't. I couldn't do what you did. Because this hasn't just been one year. We're going on year eight or nine when it comes to the concussion with caregiving. So you've seen friends, get married, have kids and things, and that hasn't happened for you yet, but you know you had to sacrifice, and that was okay. I had, well, it's okay. Then now I'm like, Okay, Lord, I'm ready send a husband. But I had, I was in ministry for a church, and I was serving as their childcare I was the leader of the childcare ministry, and I remember when I had to take a step back, when she first got hurt, and the leader said that she was like, Keisha, your mom is your ministry. God has called you to take care of her and to make sure she heals and get better. So right now, I need you to go ahead and focus on her and we're okay here. And once she said that, I felt like a relief, because I literally poured everything like my sister. I have a sister. We're a year apart, but she's married. She now has two amazing kids. So she was pregnant during a lot of the times. Initially, when mom first got hurt, we tag team, but then when she got the cancer, it was me. So some people like, oh, wait, you have a system. Like, yes, sister, best friends. We make decisions together, but she just physically couldn't be there. When you go in radiation and chemo, there's certain ways and certain things that you just can't be around because the medications are toxic, so she couldn't so you're cooking, you're cleaning, you're taking to appointments, you're filling out forms, you're understanding what they can't understand. As I said, she's a nurse, so she's a smart, educated woman, and she gave me a card that said, thank you for speaking for me when I couldn't speak for myself. Thank you for being that voice and taking me it was five days a week. We were on the FDR, heading up to the appointment. Not everyone can sacrifice. And even when I was still in corporate, I was taking those days and I would sit in the you know, room if you had family leave, but I didn't take it, but I had enough time to really kind of give it your all in taking care of someone.

Jamila Souffrant 43:53

Yeah, I think too it sounds like, you know, I'm sure every relationship has, you know, this thing, but it sounds like you guys also had a good relationship. And I remember seeing this account where this guy online, he's taking care of his father, who was like, abusive, and he's documenting it, which I don't know how I feel about that, because it's like but I think it must be so much harder for caregivers taking care of maybe especially like elders who they don't have a good relationship with, or that they feel abused them, or was, you know, so I just know that there's different realities of caregiving, and it's it can be complicated, you know, as you said, like even the physical aspect, there might be someone, a sibling or another family member, doing other things, but like having to be physically there or financially there, or have the bandwidth to take on that capacity has to be a lot. So do you have any tips on I mean, I know that I feel like there's so much that more that we probably can cover, and maybe we'll cover more in some another conversation. But do you feel like, is there any like resource or tips? It for someone who is maybe newly in the situation, or feeling like they're not drowning in the situation, that can be other than your book, that website and all that too, that can be useful

Keisha Wilson 45:11

to them, yeah, and I think, as you said, it's tough. We had a great relationship. We still do. I consider my mom one of my best friends, which is similar to you and your mom, and I think that's how, like we aligned and became friends, because you were close as well. And so for me, I saw a mom. She was a single mom who took care of her two daughters, and I saw her sacrifice so I didn't even bat an eye. And if I had to do it all over again, I would not hesitate to take care of the woman that poured so much into us, it was just easy to do. And I had aunts and family members and friends who were willing to step in to help cook, but I was like, I need to be here, because I understand every aspect when she was forgetting certain things after the concussion, I was the one that was able to identify it right away and tell the doctors, hey, you know she's forgetting. You need to do an MRI. So advocating, because sometimes they're not able to, you need someone to advocate for them. Again, as you mentioned, you're putting a lot of needs and your desires to the side, which I talk about even as you get older, you see certain things, and I was nervous about that being transparent, and even though we're so close, now you're talking to someone and helping them with their day to day parents. They're like their parents, and they don't want anyone to tell them what to do. Anyone have Caribbean parents? You know, it's like another level. So now you're telling them, okay, well, you can't do this. You shouldn't do this. The doctor said you shouldn't do this. I'm a vegan. I've been vegan 11 years. My mom loves oxtail, selfish and everything in between, but I had to cut out a lot of stuff because of cancer. And she was like, Oh my gosh, Keisha is turning in me into a vegan. So sometimes you're now taking on that parent role, which is tough. I don't know if I would necessarily document all aspects, but I have seen her at her worst. I have photos in my phone, and I show her. You know you're now, maybe at some point they're unable to shower for themselves. Can you help them with that? I remember one time, two o'clock in the morning, she was sick from side effects to the medication, calling the doctor's office and then calling it into the pharmacy. So at 330 in the morning, mscbs, thank goodness it was 24 hours picking up that medication. And so in between working, you need to do this. There's forms, as you mentioned, there's a lot of financial forms. It helped that I've been in healthcare, the doctors to this day, they don't know what I do, and I don't want to tell them, because I don't want them to change how they treat her. Is there. She doesn't tell people she's a nurse, unless they kind of figure it out eventually. But there's certain things, like wills. Everyone should have a will. They should put it in writing. We have something called and I was teaching it last night, advanced care planning. These are visits when doctors or nurse practitioners pas have a conversation with you, the patient, as well as the family caregivers, about your next steps. Do you have health care proxy? So on my mom's health care proxy, where, if something happened, I can make healthcare decisions on her behalf. Not every patient has that. If you don't have a family member, is there a friend? There are certain things, forms, DNI, DNR, do not intubate, do not resuscitate. What are your patients wishes? If something should happen, do they not want to be intubated? Do they not want to be resuscitated, so no CPR, no ventilations, that should be written. There's also different power of attorneys. There's general which is while the person's alive, which is kind of limited. The best one is the durable power of attorney, because should anything happen to the patient, you can still make decisions. A lot of patients don't want to have that conversations. We had to believe in that, even on healthcare, I was like, I was kind of running from it. And my mom was like, we need to have a conversation. We you need to understand what things are. Should everything happen? Bank accounts, you know, tias, retirement funds, you need to have that conversation. And so on different websites, I list them, like AARP, a lot of the hospitals have caregiver support groups. I'm a part of one. So the social workers, they give amazing resources for individual therapy, group therapy. There's a lot of different organizations, the Alzheimer's Association, there's an association for everything, where you can go on their websites and find resources. And I'm super thankful that I'm in healthcare, because I know a lot of the forms I knew questions to ask. So even though she's a nurse, there's really questions that I know to ask and to keep drilling, as my mom said, it could be a little annoying. But going with your questions research before you go, so that you don't get nervous. There's something called white coat syndrome, where people get real nervous when they go to the doctor, so their pressure kind of goes up. Have your questions in line. Have medications if you don't remember them, bring the entire bottle in the bag and give it to them, because these are all things that are going to help make appointments better, and those are little resources. There's so much more that I'm sure I'm missing, you

Jamila Souffrant 50:28

know, but, I mean, I think that's a great start. It's a great start. I mean, there's so much. It's like a real journey. I think the conversation piece is really important, especially as, I mean, even if you're partnered with someone like, These things should be in place. And because, like, look, look what happened with you, like, and what happens you know, all over the world every second of the day, like, these accidents and tragedies can happen to us. And so having the conversations before you need to are important. And I know they're hard, right? Like they are hard conversations, especially with maybe just more older, stubborn people in your life, but especially with them, because like they, they, you know, God willing if they, even if it's just old age, can something can happen, and you want to be able to honor the wishes that they would have had for themselves, versus you assuming or not knowing what to do. So I think the conversation piece is so important, and like understanding who is the you know, beneficiary or the person that is second on your retirement account and bank account, so those things can be accessible in a time of emergency is so important.

Keisha Wilson 51:36

Yeah, and even down to insurance. So I've worked from this like 27 years ago. I see it today, even with teaching patients don't even know what insurance they have. And I always tell friend desks, just ask them for all their cards, and you help them navigate that you know. So even figure out what insurance they have, having conversations of where would you want to be laid to rest? Like that was a tough one. Should anything happen? Where would you want? And it was like, Oh, I didn't have a thought about that. You know, what is the options? As I mentioned before, it was a third opinion. A lot of people don't realize that what we tend to do is go to doctors. We've gone to doctors a long time, we feel like we build a rapport, and that is it. When your doctor stopped listening to you and your concerns and your signs and your symptoms and how you're feeling. You have insurance, you can go to another doctor. Don't feel too many people feel like, Oh, I've been seeing this doctor for 20 years. They know me. I owe them. No, you don't owe them. They owe you to listen to your symptoms and your signs. And as I said, it was a third opinion that found my mom's own. She told the last doctor, she was like, I need you to really listen to me and to look, you know. And by the time they found it with stage four, and with stage four, it Mets or metastasized in other areas. So it had already spread to her pelvis, it raised, spread to her liver, and not a lot of people survive stage four. So she's a blessing. I don't take her for granted at all

Jamila Souffrant 53:15

well, and to think like your mom is a nurse. And so the fact that even with her knowledge at like you know that that could happen to her, that she's like, understanding, like the medical field and telling, you know, fellow medical professional, what's going on, and she was still not being heard or ignored or just kind of waved off. So imagine someone like, just someone who's not in the medical field, and you know, you have these feelings about your body, which is why it's so important to stay up to date on all your medical procedures and checks, especially as we're getting older. Because Keisha, we're not 14

Keisha Wilson 53:48

anymore, oh my gosh, even though we look it, but

Jamila Souffrant 53:51

I know right, look at us, but like we have to, oh my gosh. We have to keep making sure we are taking care of ourselves, even and as caregivers, right? So, you know, I am in a place where I'm, you know, I'm the main caregiver for my kids, and I haven't had to be in this situation yet, thankfully. But I know, like, you know, my mom is a caregiver, one of the caregivers for my grandmother who and, you know, I see that, and I have a sister in law who I know is a caregiving for people in her life. And I just, I know how much work and money and time it takes. So I think just to kind of talk a little bit quickly about the freedom you currently have in the flexibility you have, which you set up for yourself years ago, not even knowing, by choosing yourself without even knowing, I think that's what's so incredible is sometimes we're we're doing these steps, we were making these choices, and we may not see the benefit. We might we may not reach financial freedom or the luxury of having to never work again right away, but you're setting yourself up. And it's for anyone listening who's wondering, like, what's the point? And I always like to say, like, even if you're getting out of debt, even if. If you are saving a little bit more and it's still not to where you want to ultimately be, it's setting yourself up, and you never know when you need to cash in on that thing or take advantage of the little freedom or flexibility you're buying yourself today. So keep going. Yes.

Keisha Wilson 55:17

So I and right now, we're in that space, I guess, because of our age, and even though we look for a team, we're not there. We there's a lot of caregivers. Now we're in that generation we're in. We're not taking care of our parents or someone else, and so we're seeing it is all around us. And so putting plans in place, it is a huge financial burden, because, I think about the same time she got diagnosed, that's when everything with the job happened. So even though you have certain things in place, and I have retirement funds and certain things, credit cards are being maxed out because you have to eat. You have parking lots. And anyone live in New York City or in Manhattan, you know how much it can be, $70 and we're going there five days a week. So things went up significantly. But I'm huge on once things kind of cleared, and certain things started flowing with the business, and I started, once she was finished, treatment is like I hit the ground running. The website was up, and I just was working non stop. I really haven't taken a vacation. I've gone away to like I'll use speaking conferences for a minute. So I think this year I'm working on balance, which you said, as caregivers, we don't necessarily have it. I was in a support group, then I got individual therapy, and the therapist was working with me. Thank goodness for her, because when everything happened with the house, I was already talking to her, and she was like, I need you to do something for yourself, even if it's gold, take a walk around the block. And I love running track. I used to run track, so I love jogging. And I wasn't going outside. So it was like, little by little had to do that. You have to not feel guilty. I had a favorite restaurant. They closed down on Franklin Avenue. I think it was barbacino. They closed last year. I used to just sit and have my vegan pizza. They knew me, and I would just have a moment. And sometimes we feel guilty, like if we take a second for ourselves, that's bad as a caregiver, but it's not. You need a reset. You have family or friends. Hey, can you watch them for maybe an hour, doing just something for yourself? Because I realized you can't pull from an empty cup, and I was pouring from a very empty cup, and I had to try to incorporate filling that up and working on myself. Then also with finances, you need to have that conversation, because anything can happen in a given moment. So do you know what documents are? Do you know savings accounts? Do you know all the accounts? Do you have passwords to them and researching as well? But that independence has allowed me to tell my schedule. A lot of appointments were early in the morning, and still are, because I hate New York city traffic, so the doctors open at seven, will be there at 630 and so that helps, because Okay, whatever appointment, just tell me, let me put on my schedule, and then I'll come back and okay, if I have to work later at night, I can do that, but at least I have the option, and that's why I like I get to do what I Love. Yes, there's a lot of work, because you're doing a lot of things by yourself, but then you're still also getting to do it in a way, and then also building that freedom. And I remember when you left your corporate job, I remember those car videos, and you're like, listen, and when you finally did, it was like a different freedom, because now you have kids and you have family, and you have to like things kind of shift a bit with responsibilities. So I feel like it's the same that by the time my husband come and the kids come, I'm going to have a freedom that I didn't have earlier in years.

Jamila Souffrant 58:52

Yes, oh my gosh. Keisha, this conversation. I'm so glad we have kept in touch all these years and remain friends and so proud of you, like I said, and it sounds like your mother is doing well,

Keisha Wilson 59:06

yes, thank God. So as we speak, she is cancer free. They continue to monitor her, but her PET scans are amazing. Her doctor calls her a little miracle, so if you see her, you would not know. So besides being a nurse, she's been a dance teacher. She was a dance teacher until she got injured for like 40 something years. So she's very healthy and really takes, you know, so that also just shows you cancer just doesn't have any person you know. You always gotta get, as you mentioned, get your screenings, get your testing. But yes, she's cancer free, thank goodness. And now I'm just her advocate and everyone's advocate at this point,

Jamila Souffrant 59:44

yes, and that's why you also now have the book. He told everyone the name of the book and then where they can get the book and then find out more about your other work that we were talking about earlier.

Keisha Wilson 59:55

Yes, yes. So the book is called by her side, and. It's a daughter's guide to caregiving with faith and love, and you can find it on Amazon, Barnes and Nobles books, a million all the online retailers. I also created a website. It's called driver side of Facebook, caregiver.com and there's different blog posts. If you go there, it will link you to the different resources to buy the book. And then there's different resources section. If you want to communicate or just have a conversation with another giver caregiver, you can I send out newsletters as well, so you can sign up to the newsletter. And then for the consulting part of Keisha, that's kW advanced consulting.com it's the website I'm on, LinkedIn, social media, link, you name it, Instagram, all of them, because with algorithms, you never know where people find you, right?

Jamila Souffrant 1:00:50

Well, and I hope a lot of people find you from this conversation and follow up. So thank you once again for coming on the show, sharing your journey. You know, the personal caregiving one, and then also just your entrepreneurial one, I think it's very inspiring, and you're very resilient, and I still don't know how you get it all done, but congratulations on everything.

Keisha Wilson 1:01:10

Thank you for having me. It's been amazing. It is not easy, but you know, God gives us strength, and so I hope I created the book to help other caregivers, and if you know someone, you know Moshe, share with them. And it's faith based. So I do end it with like, Scripture and prayers for caregivers, but I also talk about what we talk about, wills, trusts, different things that as caregivers. And there is a resource section in the back of the book. So I list a lot of organizations for adults, pediatric patients that can help you as well.

Jamila Souffrant 1:01:42

I will link all of the links in the episode show notes and where I post this episode, so you could find out and more

Keisha Wilson 1:01:52

exactly my mom on the photo, too. Oh,

Jamila Souffrant 1:01:53

that's so beautiful. But thank you, Keisha, for coming on.

Keisha Wilson 1:01:58

Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

Jamila Souffrant 1:02:01

Don't forget, you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this. And you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch.com/jumpstart

Jamila Souffrant 1:02:22

if you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode, and if you're happening to listen to this in Apple podcasts, rate review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm at journey to launch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, and I love, love, love interacting with journeyers. There three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here, so show them some love for supporting your girl. Four, and last but not least, share this episode, this podcast, with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to launch. All right, that's it until next week. Keep on journeying. Journeyers. You.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai