Episode 466: Balancing Corporate Life While Owning Property in Jamaica & Running an Airbnb w/ Lee-Ann Pinkard

Lee-Ann Pinkard 0:02

If I work this because I want to, it should be something that fills my soul like I want to go and just work. Might be I'm gonna go volunteer here or do this, or run my little Airbnb or whatever, but something that should be pleasurable to me and not something that I have to do in order to live. That is my fear is not planning properly enough retirement that I still have to work.

Jamila Souffrant 0:54

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Jamila Souffrant 1:35

Hey, hey, hey, journeyers, welcome to the journey to launch podcast today. We have a guest, Leanne Pinkard, who is someone really I'm interested in getting to know more. She was born and raised in Kingston, Jamaica, and graduated college, did part of her college in Jamaica, and then came to the States. She has a degree from Howard University. She also works full time in Construction Project Management at a top general contractor here in the States. She also owns an Airbnb and home back in Jamaica, which I had the honor of staying at when I went back for my sister's 30th birthday, which I talked about on the podcast. So I'll link that episode show notes there. But Leanne, welcome to the show. Thank you, Jamila, thanks for having me. I mean, I was really surprised when you reach out. But I I feel honored, and I appreciate you know you're reaching out and giving some love to my little home in in Jamaica. Well, so just like a little backstory, you know when I realized that I needed to reach out to you, so your Airbnb is not too far from where my grandmother and my grandfather's house was, like in Kerry Park, Jamaica, yeah, and I remember that beach where you have your Airbnb. I remember walking to that beach I used to go to the summer in the summers, every summer to Jamaica, and spend like, the months there. And when I got to the Airbnb, it was after, right after the hurricane, and I didn't know if I would should go or wanted to go, but all my family was going to be there for my sister's birthday, so we decided to go. And I was so glad I did. And your house was, like, amazing. I was just like, this is such. It just reminded me so much of my summers in Jamaica. And then you had the book of, like, how to

Lee-Ann Pinkard 5:00

And all this stuff. So I went to Howard after that year, they did take some of my credits. I spent another two and a half years, and I got my undergraduate degree from Howard University. And, you know, while there, I interned in the summers with construction companies, and I'm getting a job, and here I am, you know, still living in the States, in Maryland, and my husband, who also went to Howard, and now we have three kids, and I'm living here the American dream, so to speak. Yeah, so did you come over here on the education visa? Yes, okay, yes, an h1 visa. How long ago was that? Oh my gosh, I'm so old, like, a long time ago, it was a very long time ago. Well, I'm just asking too, because I know things are different now, like, I know we're in a different political climate, and so I have no idea what that looks like. Now, I'm sure it's a little more challenging, especially most recently, you know, these, this list of 75 or something countries that they've been kind of banging. So I really don't know what that looks like, but I was fortunate enough to come in on a student visa. Yeah, you know, I'm always thinking too back I also, I was born in Montego Bay, Jamaica, so on the other side of the island, but back then, a long time ago, I came up here when I was two, where it was different coming here and getting filed for by my Well, my grandfather filed for my mom, and then when my mom was the only one who got her papers through, and then she filed for us, and it was like a whole thing, but I, you know, I think back to being thankful that at the timing, and just thinking too, I have siblings that didn't have that opportunity, stayed in Jamaica, and have good lives, but It's just different. It's a different life. And just thinking about just how different my life would have been if I was raised in Jamaica, I would have had a real Jamaican accent instead of the fake one my siblings tease me about.

Intro 0:27

Welcome to the journey to launch podcast with your host, Jamila Souffrant as a money expert who wants her talk she helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real well, join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in 54321,

Jamila Souffrant 3:15

keep the house, or how to, you know, use things and internet that I looked at, and then I saw, like, your picture and your story. And I was like, wow. Like, I'm so interested in learning more about who this woman is and how she was able to basically, like, create this little piece of paradise here for herself and her family, and now is making it available for other people to use. And so I was like, when I get back, I'm going to try to reach out to her. And so I did, and you responded, and we made it work. So I'm really happy to have you on the show, because I'm I want to hopefully learn more about just your growing up in Jamaica, and then you coming to the states and your career here, and then, of course, buying property in Jamaica and having an Airbnb. How does that sound? Sounds good? Sounds like a lot, yeah, yeah. So let's get into it. So you were born in Kingston and raised there for most of your life. You said you didn't leave until you were in your early 20s, right? Yeah.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 4:10

I'm born and raised in Kingston, Jamaica. I, you know, went to high school, best high school, best all girls high school. Immaculate Conception. Shout out to immaculate ICHS. When I graduated, immaculate I had an inkling I wanted to go into engineering. I have uncles who were engineers, mechanical engineers, engineers. I like math and science. And so I decided that's what I wanted to go into. I had two options, either I was able to, you know, start college in Jamaica, or go abroad. So I started in Jamaica, the college I went to did not have a degree program, so I got a diploma. It was like a three year program. And then I worked for a year in Jamaica with a construction company. And I had lots of friends who had gone off to college in the states and went to Howard, and they said you should come to Howard. You know, they'll take some of your credit.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 6:53

Okay, so that's great. How did you decide on construction management? Was that your degree,

Lee-Ann Pinkard 6:57

my degree, was in civil engineering? Okay, as a civil engineer, you know, it's a very kind of broad field. You can go into design or construction, and I got an internship at a general contractor, and I just kept on that track.

Jamila Souffrant 7:08

And in terms of, like, establishing yourself here after you graduated from Howard, what made you stay in the states, like, versus going back to Jamaica and establishing yourself there?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 7:18

You know, that's a good question, because I think a lot of times people, first of all, they think, you know, you're an immigrant, like you were just dying to be here, like you're running away from something. And I think there are people, obviously, who are leaving their homelands because of something, right for a reason, they're running from something. To be clear, I wasn't running from anything. Jamaica is beautiful place to be. It was just that I've been here, you know, I had opportunity. I got a job. And obviously the pay scale is different working in Jamaica versus the US. And the field I'm in is different in Jamaica than the US. And then, you know, once you kind of get started, I mean, you say it all the time here, people like go to college in a different state, and then they stay in that state, right? So, state, right? So it's, that's kind of what happened. I have lots of friends who stayed for a year or two and then went back home, and they're doing really well at home. So I mean, you know, it's just you got married, you got life happened? You know, married kids, that sort

Jamila Souffrant 8:15

of thing, right? Right? No, I definitely see how it's easy to stay but I think too, with, like, a lot of Jamaica's, we were talking about how cold it is as we're recording this, even where you are, where I am, and then, like, when you in Jamaica, they're saying Jamaica was actually colder than it usually is, too.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 8:33

Like they were in jackets. It was. I checked my camera one day right at the house, and I see the guests in hoodies, and I'm like, What is going on? So I checked the temperature. I was like, 55 degrees. This is insane, like, I've never, I've never experienced, uh, anything, probably below 70, maybe, you know, in Mandeville, six or something, but not 55 degrees. So it was

Jamila Souffrant 8:51

interesting, right? So interesting. Okay, so tell me a bit about you then buying a home in Jamaica. So that's something that I think about, I mean, I think I believe I have property in Jamaica through my father, but I have not, like, looked into it, and for so long, I can imagine that it's probably like, people are probably living on it at this point, right, right? And so, you know, but even when I stayed at your house, like, I was like, Wow, I wonder, like, how doable this is. So before we get into, like, where your house is and all that, and kind of describing that, what made you buy something in Jamaica, and why matigo bay side of the island and not Kingston side? Like, what was your thought process?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 9:31

So a few things. Obviously, I'm living here for now. It's 20 some odd years, almost, like almost, almost 30 years. You know, in the back of your head. You're always like, I'm not. I'm not going to retire here. Nothing's wrong with the US, but I'm not going to return this cold weather. This is not what I want, right? And then covid happened. And, you know, I used to go home every year, every year when I had kids and I was unable to meet my annual trip. And I just, you know, when something goes inside, it's like. I just need to go home. I need to go home. I just need to touch soil. Right on the back end, my husband is always like, so, because he's from here, he's American, he's been to Jamaica so many times with me, and he was just like, we got to figure this out, because we're not going to stay here. And I'm like, it's so hard, like, it's just so hard. You just want me to do all this work to figure it out. It's so hard, you know, but then the more things happen, and covid, I was like, You know what? I can figure this out. And so I started looking. I started looking, besides Doom, scrolling on real estate sites every night, trying to find something Why chilani specifically that it was just I wanted somewhere close to the beach. It was nothing besides that. I went somewhere near to the beach. I would never have thought Trelawney, because quite frankly, and it's gonna sound bad, but growing up in Kingston, like trilogy, was a drive through parish. You're driving through to get to Montego Bay right to get you're not really stopping in Trelawney. So the fact that I end up there is interesting, but it was just location,

Jamila Souffrant 11:05

right, right? So you were searching, wanted to be by the beach, and what about that specific property? And if you want to describe, kind of like, maybe we should describe, and you'll be better at this, because I always get this mixed up with the parishes and that, you know, like all the points in the town. But can you describe kind of, you know, Kingston is on one side of the island, and then Montego is, like, on opposite side. I think, how long does it take on the new highway, like, three hours or four hours to drive?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 11:31

So Kingston is on the southeast side of the island, and everyone is familiar with the North Coast. That's like, big tourist destinations flying in from Montego Bay, which is kind of Northwest, spanning across to ultra risk, which is like another hour and a half, two hours from Montego Bay, heading eastwards right. So Trelawney is right in between. It's a parish in between St James and st Anne. So Montego Bay is in St James. Ultra race in st Anne. We're smack in the middle. So I was like, Okay, this is great. And we're an hour and a half from Kingston thanks to new highway. So I'm like, okay, location wise, this is great. I can be in Montego Bay, fly in, be at my house in 45 minutes. Perfect cost. I was not in a point where I could spend a lot of money, right? This is our first venture to Jamaica. So, you know, I still have kids to feed, right? And I'm not wealthy, independently wealthy, so I had to make sure could afford it. But then also, the appeal was, it's a nice little beach cottage, you know, it's not this, like, oversized, multi level, you know, house. It's cute. It's cozy, just enough, three bedrooms, three, four bathrooms, and like, literally, I'm three doors down from the beach, so all that put together, and fortunately, a person I bought the home from, she was already running an Airbnb from there, and it was, it was well maintained. Well, at least we thought so, right? But it looked well maintained, right? So it made sense. It made sense for us, especially compared to what we were seeing on the market at the time,

Jamila Souffrant 13:09

right, right. So, is there a particular site that you went to like that was Jamaican based for real real estate, or someone you had to know?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 13:18

No. So, I mean, they have, you know, Co Op bankers down there in Jamaica, and that was the website I use. But there are several other their local like Valerie Levy and Associates on their own website. It's not as easy as going to Zillow or Redfin, you know. Okay, I'm a complaint to my brother. Like these websites suck. You need so you could, you could do better. You could help, because he's an it, I'm like, you could do a better website, right? But CB, Jamaica was the one I ended up going to and I sometimes I even scroll through that. Now, the agency is in Jamaica, so that's also another good real estate website to look for if you're looking for property,

Speaker 1 13:55

Wait, what's that website say that one? Again, the agency, the agency is

Lee-Ann Pinkard 13:59

also in Jamaica, very recently. Um, so that's also a good one if you're looking for property, but it's not, you know, it's, it's just different from you. If you have an expectation of, like, going to Redfin, it's a little bit different,

Jamila Souffrant 14:12

right, right? Okay, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna need, like, a walkthrough, if you could help me out here. Okay, so I'm searching online, yes, and I see a property, and I'm like, Oh, this looks interesting. Yes, for you, I don't know if you work with the agent and seller or just a seller, but well, how do you get in touch and actually have real conversations with people and start the process?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 14:35

So just contacts. So like, I my brother's still in Jamaica, right? So I was like, Look, I need a realtor, you know, and he referred me to somebody. And then I don't know how I found the actual realtor ended up using. I can't remember right now, but I found her. Someone else referred me to her, and I called her. And so the thing with Jamaica information sometimes is very hard to come by, like, in terms of. Like, very detailed information. And I am a person who has an engineering background, like, I need details. I need I need all the things, right? So, so two things were obstacles, first of all, a realtor. Second of all, loans, a mortgage, right? Like, how does that work? And so I remember, before I found the real tire used, I was like, online, Googling, you know, all the mortgage companies in Jamaica, right? Like, how do I get a loan? Blah, blah, blah, reach out to them. You know, if I went online here and go, I need a mortgage, right? I went to Rocket Mortgage. I mean, in five seconds, someone would call me, right? You know, less than five seconds, Oh, you want a mortgage, not Jamaica. I mean, I was like, sending a message on Facebook, no responses, so I got very frustrated, so that I'd pause on the on the search. I'm like, This is so frustrating, I can't even why is it so hard? And then I found this particular, particular realtor, and she said to me, why'd she just use a broker? I'm like, You guys have brokers. Really, no one told me about that here. Here's a mortgage broker that I work with, fantastic, and he was able to walk me through how to actually secure a mortgage. So it's having those two people. And it like I said, it was not, it wasn't something that was just easily out there. I literally had to, like, ask and pursue to get that information

Jamila Souffrant 16:21

right now, are you, like, still a Jamaican? I have dual citizenship, okay, dual citizenship. Does that make it easier? Like, so the fact that, or no, it didn't matter.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 16:30

No, you can't, you can't get a mortgage in the US for buying a property outside the country. So I had to get a mortgage in Jamaica, unless I was coming with all cash, right, right? So that that's a thing. And then even just getting a bank account in Jamaica is challenging, like they're very concerned with fraud and money laundering. And I got them the mortgage company I use also, you know, does same as accounts. And just for me to get an account at that entity, I had to get, like, a referral, someone had to like refer me, you know. And it had to be either a lawyer or a doctor or like, you know, that is very still archaic, antiquated kind of systems. Some I have to call up. My cousin was a doctor. Can you like, sign my form and say that I'm legit, you know,

Jamila Souffrant 17:24

yeah, but they had to be Jamaican, yes to do that, right? So, but you didn't have to be a citizen. You don't have to be a citizen of Jamaica, right? Do you have more favorable rates, though?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 17:34

No, no. Okay, citizen. You can get mortgage loans in either USD or in GMD, right? The Jamila loans rates will be higher than the US but I guess the benefit if you went with the Jamaican dollar loan is betting the fact that the interest rate, or the exchange rates, are going to keep on devaluing. But most of the lot of properties do advertise in USD, got it, so we end up getting a USD loan. But you don't have to be, you have to be Jamaican, lots of, lots of Americans and own property.

Jamila Souffrant 18:10

Well, I guess you have to know jamaa can still you have to know like, someone there to make it, yeah,

Lee-Ann Pinkard 18:15

to know somebody who knows that you haven't, who can explain your like, all the things that have to happen. You have to have a so in Jamaica, you know, here you have a social security number. You have to get a trn number. It's a tax registration number. There are all these things that, if you don't have someone to kind of like, show you, you would be really lost, right?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 18:34

Well, how often did you have to go back to Jamaica for this process, and how long did it take from finding the property to closing?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 18:41

We found the probably like 668, months. And I actually only went once after actually made an offer, because my realtor went, you know. So she visited the properties for me. She took video when she could ask my brother to go down there and look on my behalf, you know, and, and so luckily, we weren't flying back and forth to do that.

Jamila Souffrant 19:06

Okay, that made that process doesn't seem like it took that that long. But one thing I'm interested in, because I follow someone who built a home in Jamaica. It's very beautiful and, and that, like, boggles my mind, because I know how like building is hard you see, you drive to Jamaica, you see so many unfinished properties for multitude of reasons, right? Yes. So when you bought the property, you mentioned that it wasn't as well maintained as you thought so in terms of price points. Let's just say you wanted to buy a vacation property in the states somewhere. And I know there's different varying levels of price points. What does that look like? I know, and we're talking about different time, because it seems like you because it seems like you bought this after the pandemic in terms of, like, value or cost and where it's located in Jamaica, versus if you want to buy a vacation home here, like, what was the difference in price or value for you?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 19:55

I would say the same. The Jamaican real estate market right now is insane. An obscene, crazy I mean, if you want to get a multi million dollar property, sure it's there, like, if you want anything you see on television, you want a nice property by the water, a view of the water, anything that, I mean, it's prime real estate, you're going to pay top dollar. And sometimes there are homes that may not be as well maintained, but just because of their location, obviously you're going to pay top dollar for it as well. So, I mean, I would say, if your desire is to be in a like a, let's say, touristy area, or, you know, close to the coast, you're going to be paying north of half million dollars. And that's like, baseline probably can. That's like, you're looking real hard to find, to find that really, really hard, right?

Jamila Souffrant 20:47

It's expensive. So for you, what were some of the unexpected costs? It like, how much did you put into the property? Because when I went there, I was like, wow, this is really nice. And it was after the hurricane, so you guys were on generators, right? So it just, you know, okay,

Lee-Ann Pinkard 21:03

so, like, I said, we're engineers, right? And I grew up in Jamaica, I know what's going on. I was like, we're, like, the first thing we're going to do with this house, we're going to put solar panels on this house. Okay? There is absolutely no reason why every house in Jamaica should not have solar panels. We get so much sun, right? But the thing is, it's cost prohibitive here as well. It's expensive to get solar panels here. We put solar panels on our house here, we know the benefit of it, so we invested, and that investment paid off during the hurricane, because when you came it was probably, I think, as pitch black and at night time, right? Because most of our neighbors had nothing. We had power because of solar panels, so we invested in that. And the good news is, by the way, that solar panels are costs are going down, so people should invest, right? I highly recommend it. The house was in good condition, but we spent a lot of money. And so you're asking, like, how do you know the trust? Right? So yeah, if someone says, build a house in Jamaica, that scares me. I know people, and it scares me because I feel like, as someone who's in the construction field, I would need to be there to, like, watch what's going on, because things aren't going to happen the same way I expect it to happen, right? And if you don't have someone who you can trust in your absence, then you don't know what's going on, where the money is going, that sort of thing. So initially I didn't know, I don't know anybody in Trelawney, I found some guy on the internet. He actually responded. He came out, he met me. He was helpful at the time when I knew no one, and so I worked with him. Now that I know a bit more people, I don't necessarily work with him, because I have other folks who I'm calling who are a little bit more responsive, but also not. They're not like, Oh, you're from America. I'm going to charge you this crazy because you get that too. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry, this crazy. My like, no, no, no, you're not, you know, right? I mean, I want to be fair, but I also don't want

Lee-Ann Pinkard 23:00

to be gouged, right, right? So you have to someone on the ground in Jamaica that can help coordinate whether you buy a house or build it, but especially if you build it for you, though, like even buying it, like, how do you know the bones? Because you're it didn't seem your property has structural damage the way some others did even around you, was that because the property was built sound, or it was just luck

Lee-Ann Pinkard 23:21

it was built sound. I mean, the property is built in the six days. It's a concrete building. And what you've seen a lot of, most of Jamaican homes, all Jamila are built with concrete, right? Reinforced Concrete, whether it's blocks or actual concrete, the vulnerable part is, are the roofing systems right? And so I was definitely worried about our roof, because I didn't say to my husband, like, this roof, I think we should replace this roof. And let me tell you, I was so grateful when that roof helped on I'm sure the panels helped as well, having those panels attached. But we were grateful that we didn't lose our roof during the hurricanes.

Jamila Souffrant 23:57

So yeah, yeah, no, it was just a talk about, a little bit about the, like, the damage because of hurricane Melissa, you know, by the beach in silver sands, where it had that Jamaican wall with this flag. So I have so many pictures growing up where, when I was in my 20s, and with, like, taking pictures in front of that wall. And so when I went there and saw it again, I was like, wow. Like you because it wasn't there anymore. He just saw, like, the rubble, yeah, and I'll post a picture when this comes out. Like, I'll do like a side by side of it too. But it was just like, wow. Like, this really, just, you know, this island was greatly impacted by this hurricane.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 24:33

The hurricane was, is massive. So I was there before you came. Actually, I think you probably checked the day I was checking out. And because I was like, I have to come and see for myself before I open it back up, right? I have standards. I don't want people just coming in. And we drove a room on tiga Bay a little bit, and it was just so interesting to see one place, the walls are fine. Nothing happened. And then 10 feet, 20 feet away, a wall collapsed. Right? It was just the way the wind was. Maybe some of, some of it was construction, but, like, the hurricane was massive. It took down light poles. It strict, you know, leaves off the trees. It was, it was incredible. So we were really grateful for not being impacted by that in a massive,

Jamila Souffrant 25:22

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Lee-Ann Pinkard 28:09

Lots of thoughts. First, I appreciate you coming when you did, because what you're right, people were like, We don't want to come and impose, but what people need to understand is, like, it's a double edged sword, right? Because our economy in Jamaica is so heavily dependent on tourism that the people who do need the help also need the work in order to help themselves, right? So, yes, there's a ton of people who it's like, maybe their homes are devastated, and you're thinking to yourself, we don't want to impose on them, but at the same time, if they don't have their jobs to go to, then how are they going to repair their homes? And you know, somewhere from my house, like, you know, my housekeeper is local, my gardener is local, obviously, right? I want to make sure that they're getting paid. And so the time that that we don't have guests, she doesn't get paid, you know what I mean. And so we also, everyone in that Airbnb community wants to make sure that we're keeping that that progress happening, and helping the folks who were helping us. And at the same time past east of Trelawney, I don't even got a chance to go into Kingston when you were were there, but I'm so we drove from going to Montego Bay. We drove around at some point. We left trilogy. We moved to Kingston to, you know, spend time my family. And it was like Kingston was like, night and day, nothing happened. Yeah, absolutely. People, kids are back at school. There's traffic. So it was a very interesting almost like this hurricane went straight through and just had a line in the sand, right? So, so there's still economy going on now, as for the concern that people going to buy our property? Yes, everyone was talking about that as well. I could see where people would think that way. But once again, the kind of property that you know, because of their property values, I would say a lot of Jamaicans would not be able to buy somebody's property anyway. You know what I mean, people will be selling the only reason people. Is something is, if it's like they have nothing else and they have to get rid of the property to take care of themselves, it could be totally wrong. I don't know if people went and just start buying things up, but I have not really seen a huge change in, you know, the price of things there. There are a lot of expensive properties on the market still,

Jamila Souffrant 30:18

right, right? Yeah. It's just, it's just really, just interesting being able to go back and again. Like I said, I have a sister who lives in Kingston, and I have family who live in the area where the Airbnb is still so, you know, it was just really interesting to see the differences, because I would talk to my sister in Kingston, and then when I came there, see how it was in the Montego Bay Area, and I was just like, okay, like, it's just interesting, the just a tale of two, have and have nots. I mean, that's always been the case. I think, too for Jamaica is that it's always like the poverty this, for some people there, it's, it's always been there. It's just like the hurricane just exasperated what it was for those people too, even more.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 30:57

But, you know, also was very interesting, I found. So we're here watching all this stuff on TV, right? I'm like, I'm like, on my phone, like, oh my gosh, watching what's going on, right? And then I would say to my housekeeper, like, oh my gosh, this happened. And she was like, she had no power, therefore, no TV, no radio, nothing. So she didn't know half of what was going on on the island after the hurricane, you know? So there are pockets of people who were just completely in darkness, literally with what was going on. So definitely interesting times.

Jamila Souffrant 31:27

Yeah, yeah. So how long ago you said, this has been, what, like a four year since you've had the Airbnb?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 31:33

Yeah, I bought it 2022 like the end of it, and so we started February, 2023

Jamila Souffrant 31:39

and your plan was always to have it as an Airbnb, and you said you come down or what was your thought process there?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 31:45

So the thought process was, we want to retire in Jamaica. Let's buy something now and make it a short term rental so that could help us pay for it in the meanwhile, rather than wait until we're ready to retire and then buying some ridiculous, expensive thing at that time

Jamila Souffrant 32:00

and now, so you always knew that you wouldn't necessarily be staying there in the high season or all the time. It was more for guests.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 32:08

Yeah, yeah. I mean, definitely for guests. The goal was that we can go down, you know, once, maybe twice a year, if we want to, and and spend time there. But really for guests, so that when we are ready to actually benefit from it. You know, it's there already.

Jamila Souffrant 32:23

So would you say that it's, it's, it was a profitable investment, or it's more of a breaks even, or at least it helps pay for itself. It's not breaking even, but it's not dragging your finances down too much.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 32:34

I'm going to be honest with you, it's definitely dragging my finances. I'm hoping that this is the year that it because I I'm not being greedy about this. I just want to break even. I'm not here to make this exorbitant profit. Breaking even be a win for us, and it has not done that yet, and because of many reasons, you know, so like Hurricane Melissa, I lost a ton of bookings because of that, right? Because merely people like, oh my god, we're not coming. First of all, we're not ready to receive you. They're not coming. They don't want to come to Jamaica. It's in darkness. It's not what they expected. So, you know, things didn't go very well the year before we had Beryl lost something there, because, actually, one of the walls at the back of my house fell during barrel, because someone's um tree fell through my lot, right? So, you know, once again, impact. So it's like, there are these variables that you just really have no control

Jamila Souffrant 33:27

over, right, right? And

Lee-Ann Pinkard 33:29

of course, the initial, you know, capital expenditure and maintenance and that sort of thing that first year was really like solar panels. Those aren't cheap maintenance, like getting the house to where it needs to be. And so I'm, I'm optimistic that this year will be different,

Jamila Souffrant 33:46

and if you could do it again, would you buy again? And or would you think about using your money in another capacity?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 33:54

I would buy? I'm not sure if maybe that particular location is where I'd buy, because, you know, part of me is like, maybe I wanted some would have wanted something bigger, but I think that God put us there for a reason, you know, like, when we're looking at homes, there were a couple other homes that we were interested in. One was like, way more expensive, but it was like, just what I wanted. And I was like, You know what? I don't want to be over stretched, right, financially stretched. We want to be something that is not going to kill us. And so this is what where we are. Yeah, there's still time. I'm not retiring tomorrow. Maybe in the future, something might change. I might buy something else, right, or sell this, or whatever. But it was good. It's a good like dipping your toe in the market is what we're able to do, right?

Jamila Souffrant 34:39

And I think too, it's like for anyone listening, like, who have thoughts, right? Whether it's like, buying something from the place you came from, your family's from, or buying somewhere where you enjoy going. When I was there, you know, of course, I'm thinking, like, maybe I should have, like, a home here at an Airbnb. And then I was like, but really, Jamila, When could you come down, you know, with the kids, their ages? Like, it would be so bit like, I. Then I thought of all the reasons why it wouldn't work, and how busy I would be, and how I think I'd come here and then I wouldn't, and is it really going to be for me, or do I have to say, No, you can't, you can't visit because you want to make money from this like so I had all these thoughts going in my head. And I think for some people, yes, there, you have to be realistic. But also, even whatever you plan may not come to fruition, either because there's so many unexplainable or things outside of your control that

Lee-Ann Pinkard 35:24

will happen. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think a lot of times, I mean, I tend to build people might say I'm not optimistic, but I'm always like, Oh, we can do this. And I was like, Really, I don't think that's gonna happen, right? And I think a lot of times we romanticize things like, Oh, I'm gonna have this fantastic Airbnb. It's gonna be so, great, you know? And then you get into you're like, Yeah, I didn't realize about this. I didn't realize about that, you know, I didn't think about this. And those things can be stumbling blocks. We talked about our kids. There's no way I could come out there every month or whatever, because I have kids in school, right? That's not going to happen. So once, twice a year is sufficient for us to enjoy it, and to, you know, take care of it, put our eyes on it. And I would say, the big thing, Jamila, is having somebody down there who can, who you trust, to really watch out for you. And I'll say, I'm very fortunate, because when I bought this home, the housekeeper, I think you met her, right?

Jamila Souffrant 36:21

Yes, she was lovely. Yes, he

Lee-Ann Pinkard 36:25

was housekeeper there for the previous owner. And I said to her, Would you like to say? She said, Sure, right. She is the best. She is loyal. I trust her 100% if there was no Althea, I don't know what I would do, right? So you have to find somebody who you can trust, to look out for your best interest, because she understands that what's in my best interest is in her best interest as well,

Lee-Ann Pinkard 36:47

right, right? No, she did a great she did an amazing job. And one of the things I was because I know in that area there's also, like, a gated community not too far, and I think they also, I think I was asking my sister or my brother about, oh, like, so what's like, the difference in prices here versus there? Because your area is not gated, but I felt safe, but it was a lot more expensive. And so the other thing that comes to mind is the safety, like, if you were traveling by yourself there, did you like, Would you feel safe? And how to consider that when looking at property in other areas from you know, where a person lives?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 37:21

So I think that Let's, first of all, I'm glad you brought up safety. Let's dispel the myth that Jamaica is this horrible, terrible, unsafe place, right? It is not that. I think I heard someone say the other day, like, our crime rate has reduced by like 30% over the past however many years, it is relatively safe. And I say relative because, I mean, DC isn't great. Is safe either, right? You look at the wrong spots, you know. But I think a lot of times people you know, on the news you only hear, they only tell you what you want to hear, and they you know, especially the US government, puts up these things like, oh my god, stay awake. You can go to Jamaica. You can walk down the road, no one's going to trouble you. You might get a little guy going, hi, nice girl, whatever, as long as you are nice to them and respectful, it's all about respect. As long as they're respectful to them or with them, they'll be respectful with you and they'll be helpful. I see so many stories online. Instagram is like, oh my gosh, I came to Jamaica. I lost my wallet a girl I went to, a girl I used to work with, went to Jamila Karna honeymoon, lost her reading ring or something like that in the grill at some waterfalls, and someone phoned and brought it back for her, you know. So, like, there are people out there who go above and beyond for you, right? So it's not, there's not this, like, horrible thing, obviously, if you are, if you're living there and you're doing nefarious things, and, yeah, you should call it water, because that stuff follows you, right? But as a tourist, or someone returning, a returning resident, or someone wants to move to Jamaica, it's fine, right?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 38:57

How many hours would you say you spend per week on managing from the States, from where you are the property,

Lee-Ann Pinkard 39:05

not that much anymore. I mean, I, I think I'm a really good multitasker. I would say probably a couple hours a week. You know, we have kind of things set up now. We have people who do things, and so I'm able to, just as long as I'm communicating with, with Alfie, I'm a housekeeper. Here's, here's who's coming this week. You know, here's what we need to do, some maintenance items. Like I said, it's just, it's the right? And everyone, as you know, does business on WhatsApp. Yes, America has no idea. We're good at WhatsApp. Like, you can order KFC on WhatsApp in Jamaica, right? So as long as you have the communication going, it works so well, right?

Jamila Souffrant 39:46

Sounds like you just really need a good system, good people, probably patience as you enter this process, and also to just like realistic expectations on what could be, because I think I. About reaching financial independence and financial freedom. And real estate is something people will say is a lever or just a way for you to reach that. And I love real estate. It's part of why, like, chose to have my career in real estate and get my Master's in it and all that. But I own a condo here in Brooklyn, in addition to our home, and I only have, like, one tenant, and we also own, my husband and I owned a one bedroom also downtown, a condo, and really, there's usually no trouble. But I already know with my personality, like, I wouldn't like having a lot of tenants and having to deal with that, but I would, if it was financially, you know, feasible and lucrative, maybe I would change my mind. So with that, though, I think a lot of people think about real estate and have success in it, but then think they can go into it and just make money. So, oh, Airbnb. I can make money off Airbnb. It will be, it will help me reach financial freedom. And so I don't, you know, I just, I think talking to you is helpful, maybe to just be real with people about like it may not break even, it may it may not be profitable like it. I think you have to really run the numbers and put in a lot of margin for some errors or loss when it comes to just real estate in general.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 41:21

Yeah, I agree with you. We have a neighbor in Jamaica who also runs Airbnb on the parallel street. And you know, when I bought there, you know, she reached out to me and she said, she said, Leanne, the first seven years, I cried almost every day, right? Seven years? No, she's good, you know, but it took her a long time and so, and maybe I'm, I'm like, so I was like, Maybe I'm doing something wrong, like, you know, what? What am I doing wrong? Because I'm sure there are people who have great stories who, like, bought property, and they're just, you know, making money hand over fist and everything else. But for me, my experience has never been like, I also own property here. I also love real estate, even though I'm not, you know, a real estate professional like you are. I love real estate. I have rental property here. And my dad also said, you know, when I was leaving school, like, just like what you said, real estate is a is a way to wealth prosperity, right? But it's not all. It's not for everybody, because people do not want to deal with people, tenants, tenant laws, evictions, all these things. So I avoid eviction part during the Airbnb but now I'm more in customer service really than I'm in property management. Because you know what short term rentals thrive off of? Is reviews, right? So one bad review will like, completely, you know, could have the potential to decimate you. So it's always like, what can I do? How can I help? Like, when I want my home to be at certain standard, I want to try to accommodate you. I'm trying to think of all these different things to make sure that when you leave my property that you had a great experience, and that you leave a good review. And we're not, you know, we're not sandals, we're not beaches or breezes or, you know, whoever Ryu, right? We're not any of those people. So sometimes people come to the home and think, like, Oh, I'm gonna steal stuff, you know? Or like, No, this is, this is not how it works. So, but I really put a lot of effort because we're not sandals. You don't have the level of a mantis that we have, that they have, right? We don't have that. But if you're coming to Jamaica for an authentic experience, you want some privacy, some quiet. You want to be by the beach like that's those are the kinds of tourists we're catering to. We're not catering to the all inclusive. I don't want to leave the confines. I wanted to stay here because my favorite people, you know, we're not catering to we're catering to tourists who want to explore, want to see the lovely island of Jamaica. Man, it's great and, and I'm sorry to answer your question earlier about our neighbors, the gated community in terms of security, I would love for our side to be that way as well. Just you know, get into some privacy. But you're right. Those homes are million dollar homes in that place. If you ever go just scrolling through CB, you know, Jamaica, million dollar homes over there, and if they have a history, they've been that way for a long time. But Jamaica is safe, and you know, if you're looking for that authentic I just want to just chill my family, go to the beach, maybe go check out the sites during the week. You know, have a nice meal. Like, that's what my home offers for you.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 44:29

Yeah, no. Leanne to home is amazing. I definitely want to come back with my family, like my husband and the kids, because we went, we went on a family trip with all my like sisters, and we stayed in Kingston side, and we did. We drove around the island, so we just saw the different like, we were no tourists. But then we stayed with my sister, like, where she lives, but I would love for us to stay the next time, like, both, maybe Kingston, and then, like, stay a portion. So, you know, we're gonna link the Airbnb. I'll link the Airbnb here, and then when that was when the show comes out, like, pictures and everything for people to see. It, because I do think it's something that, like, really, you get the authentic Jamaica and experience. And literally, you can, like, see the beach, like it's so close to this beautiful beach in Jamaica. But a couple more questions I just want to understand about your journey is maybe just currently managing everything you're managing. So you're a mom of three, you work full time, you own multiple properties. You're a wife. Like, how are you managing all of this, just like for yourself? Like, what does that look like for you without burning out? If, assuming you're not burning out.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 45:32

You know, some people have hobbies. I think like adding more of these type of work, type things on my plate is kind of a hobby. So I enjoy, I enjoy doing this. I would love to be an entrepreneur. I've always thought, like, this is where I want to go, right? But I've been in corporate America so long that the idea of leaving is is very scary. So I applaud you, like I listen to your podcast. You know, I applaud you for making that, that leap, that's amazing. I am just too scared. I have too many mouths to feed. I am too comfortable. I'm not I can't do it right. So I think all these little side gigs I have going on is my opportunity to have a little control where that's concerned. And unfortunately, sometimes it sounds like it's stressful, like my husband's always like, if this is, if this is how you're gonna be, like, maybe we should just not do this, you know, like, no, but this is crazy. We have a house that's like, three doors down from beach. Why would I sell this house? That's crazy. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. We will figure it out. And so I just figure it out.

Jamila Souffrant 46:35

Yeah, well, I think that kind of goes to my next question is, because you definitely, obviously are very ambitious and resilient and all these things. And I can imagine, though, that that was something instilled in you, and for many, probably places you're like, maybe just how you were raised, being raised in Jamaica. So what messages were instilled in you about just like education, like for you to be able to pursue the education you got and succeed, and then career, and then going after these even though you said, you know you're scared to leave your job, which, by the way, not everyone should be an entrepreneur. If you can have a steady paycheck and and do other things in life, that that's fine, too. But what do you think allows you to do these things, like, what were the messaging or things that were instilled in you to help you do what you're doing now.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 47:23

So my father, my parents, but let's talk about father. Definitely. Parents instilled education, right? My mom is one of like 11, and all of my aunts and uncles are educated. I have my cousins are educated, like, go to school, go to college. You know, two mountains are engineers, accountants, all these things, right? So it was never, it was a no brainer, like, you had to just do something, right? It's just, what did you want to do? You know, going to engineering was really because of what I saw at home. And, like I said, I have two uncles who are engineers. But my father, he always had this entrepreneurial spirit. Actually has not gone. He's still alive, right? He has an entrepreneurial spirit. And he always would say that to us, like he had rental property, like you should buy a house to rent it, because that's a way for wealth, right? At one point in time, he and his my mom got into business and owned like a deli, right? Because he wanted to have a business. It wasn't successful in closing, but, like, that's what he wanted to do. He opened up another place and got an ice cream shop. So he always was trying to do things all while doing his full time job. He was a CPA, right? And eventually he left his CPA job with a company, started his own accounting practice, so he ended up being self employed. So you kind of growing up seeing all of that right, and knowing that, that there is a different way to do things. But once again, the education, when you go to school, you're kind of taught like you need to kind of fall in line and go to get a good job and get this and get that, and once you start doing that, it's kind of hard to go back. So I always thought to myself, you know, if I had after college or something, just like did real estate, I mean, I became a realtor, right? We're now, I'm dependent on commissions, right? Then maybe I would be more easily, you know, independent and not so scared to try something else, but because I got a nice job, I got a place to go and, you know, nice paycheck and all the things, it's hard to go like, I'm gonna just give that up and eat ramen.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 49:32

Yeah, no, it sounds like you got a taste of both. Like, you know, obviously there's the structure and discipline and sticking through. It's funny, because almost like, indoctrinated to, like, follow the rules and finish something out, which I kind of, I definitely understand that. But then you did see glimpses and role models of people trying different things on the side, which helps you kind of to explore that for yourself, which I think you know is, is obviously beneficial in helping you. You on your path, and so I do want to ask what you see for yourself in the future. So you talk about, like, retiring, and maybe for you, that's years off. But what does that look like for you? Do you? I don't know what we all want. A perfect world. I feel like in my perfect world, you know, I would reach the point where I call totally financially independent. Right now I'm work flexible, where I can kind of choose what I want to work but I do need, if I want to keep the same lifestyle, you know, I do need to earn money. You know, of course, in my perfect world, I'd be just financially independent and would never have to actively earn money again, right? And so I'm working towards that, and I can still reach early retirement on my plan. But for you, when you think about, like, where you want to be in a few years. Like, what does that look like for you? Do you see yourself having the capacity to early retire? Or that wasn't that's not even in your goal. You're like, I'm gonna go until retirement at the company and do the real estate on the side. Like, what are you thinking about now for yourself,

Lee-Ann Pinkard 50:55

what's what's early retirement? For you? What age is early retirement?

Jamila Souffrant 50:59

Well, anything earlier than the standard age. Yeah. So anything before that, the earlier the better. Like, when I first started turning to launch, I was, like, early 30s. I said I was going to retire by 40, right? But, you know, was, what was cool is I was able to quit my corporate job before then, and then, kind of use this as you know, still working, but doing it more my way, and so I'm still on track on something called Coast fire, where, like, we don't have to ever invest anymore. Again, our retirement accounts, by the time we reach standard retirement, is going to be more than enough to pay for what we want. It's more about bringing in the income now to live the lifestyle we want. So, you know, there's different like levels, like in how you want to do it. Obviously, if you have a partner, sometimes that works. If you can live off one partner's income and maybe reduce work hours kids make it a lot more complicated. Quite frankly, living in New York, right in a metropolitan city that's expensive, makes it more complicated. But for you, when you think about this, I know, like my Caribbean, like family, like early retirement industry, like, they're like, What like you work like this, that there's no early retirement like, so what for you are you envisioning for yourself and your family as you look forward

Lee-Ann Pinkard 52:15

so early retirement? Yes, I mean, I'm not going to be working at my current job at age 65 the plan is for us to retire when I'm 60, and my husband's a couple years younger, so he is lucky to retire earlier than that, right? I keep telling me to work until he gets 63 but whatever, in an ideal world, we would be retiring to Jamaica if I were able to find a job. And I probably should be saying it's out loud, in case anyone from my job listening, but, but if I were able to find a job that I could work in Jamaica and earn US dollars, right? I would do that, and that would, I would do that earlier than 60. I'm here still, really for the earning, obviously, and for my kids, like I would like my kids to get through high school and then just go along their merit way, right? I've even considered maybe, would I move back and put the kids in school in Jamaica? Maybe the schools in Jamaica aren't great. They're great. I think I heard someone else on your podcast talk about her kids in school in Jamaica. I mean, yeah, they're great, right? So it's not like I'm scared of that, but I do want to keep going for a few more years here, ultimately move to Jamaica within like, 10 years and retirement would look like, because that's the thing, right? What does retirement look like? Right? Because, right, we're not going to sit on the beach every day. You need to do something, or else you're going to like die, right? And so to me, retirement would be running an Airbnb, you know, having another place, and have guests coming in and still have that residual income, that passive income, right? So support my lifestyle and maybe travel, because I enjoy traveling, right? You know, can take some some trips in retirement and not just be like, you know, we don't have that we have for that lifestyle, right?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 54:12

You know, what's even bringing up the whole beach? Like, what do you do once you retire? People who think that they want to early retire, just quit their jobs, and like, they think, Oh, I just want to be on the beach all day. And then you go to a place where that could be possible, and you see people who who have access to a beach. And I think it's like, the same as me, like, when I'm in New York, and like, we're passing, like, the skyline. I'm like, it's the skyline. I mean, it's like, it's pretty, but I see it every day, and then it's all, I'm always in awe when I go back with my family who lives there, and I'm just like, I can't believe, like, you have a beach, like, right there. And, you know, people Jamaicans enjoy Jamaica, but I always think people think what they'll do when they retire, like when they quit their jobs, is like, do nothing. And I'm like, No, you're gonna even the people who live in those environments do things like they they're busy, they're productive in a way that feels. Good to them. So I just think it's, you have to be real too with your plans, because you will not want, I don't think just drink, maybe if the first week or two or month that will feel good, just to do nothing, drink, chill on the beach. But you also want to find a purpose and something. I think, as humans, to contribute something to society in this world.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 55:19

No, you're absolutely correct. I you know, I tell people all the time retirement, so there is always a school authority. Some people, I never retire because I just want, I just want to work right. And I think they're afraid to retire because they don't know what to do with themselves, because their life has always been about that work. And when people retire, they have to have a plan. You can't just retire, and just like you said, sit on the beach, because we're our bodies, our machines, we need to keep moving, our minds, our machines, our computers. We need to keep on thinking and processing and being productive. If you don't have a plan, things start to atrophy, right? So, but my goal in retirement is not to work because I have to. If I work, it's because I want to. It should be something that fills my soul like I want to go and work. Might be I go volunteer here or do this, or run my little Airbnb or whatever, but something that should be pleasurable to me, and not something that I have to do in order to live. That is my fear is not planning properly enough retirement that I still have to work?

Lee-Ann Pinkard 56:24

Yeah, yeah, no, this is amazing. I mean, Leanne, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing more of your journey and story, and I can't wait to just share more the Airbnb with journeyers, in case you guys want to stay and explore Jamaica a bit more. So thank you again for coming on. Can you please tell me on the Instagram, I know you have an Instagram and website for the for the Airbnb, and then we'll also link it in the show notes. Yes.

Lee-Ann Pinkard 56:53

Thank you so much, Jamila, it's at sea. Miracle sea. Miracle Jamaica. My email, see miracle Jamaica, gmail.com the website also see miracle jamaica.com and that's C, S, E, A miracle Jamaica

Jamila Souffrant 57:07

got it all right again. I'll link all of that in the show notes. Thanks again. Leanne, thank you so much. Jamila, thanks for having me. Don't forget, you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this, and you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch.com/jumpstart

Jamila Souffrant 57:34

if you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here. Here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple podcasts, rate review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm at journey to launch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And I love, love, love interacting with journeyers. There three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here, so show them some love for supporting your girl four. And last but not least, share this episode, this podcast, with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to launch. All right, that's it until next week. Keep on journeying. Journeyers. You you.

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