Episode 453: Finding Clarity, Confidence & Community on Your FI Journey w/ Latoya Rowe

Latoya Rowe 0:02

It's not just about having a whole lot of money, although that's nice to have, but that's not the actual main motivation. It's about having the freedom to say, I don't have to ask about how I spend my time, where I go when I do it. My time is mine. It belongs to me, and I get to decide what I want to do with it, and if I want to allocate it towards spending more time with my children, if I want to spend it more time doing time doing something that's a hobby or an interest of mine, I don't have to justify it because it's productive or useful to somebody else. It's because it just lights me up and gives me joy.

Intro 0:34

Welcome to the journey. To launch podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant as a money expert who wants her talk she helps brave journeyers like you, get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in 54321,

Jamila Souffrant 1:01

hey, journeyers, I have something exciting to share with you. I am opening up doors to map your path to fi that is my signature course, where you can map out how you are going to reach financial independence from wherever you are today, I have distilled all the information and steps that I took to take me from working in my nine to five and my long commute to being able to have this flexible lifestyle that I have into this course. And so usually doors are not open. I have a wait list, but I've decided I'm opening up the doors where you can purchase the course now. And so if you're interested in learning more, go to journey to launch.com/fi course. And on top of that, I'm actually offering a couple tiers in which you can interact with the course, because I do know that everyone needs something different, or needs different levels of support. And So option one will be you can just get the course self paced by yourself. You do it at your own time and your own speed. You'll still get all the bonuses, including the fire Calc, which allows you to plug in your information. And then there are some bonus calls and interviews that you'll get when you get the course by itself. So that's option or tier one. Then there is the second option, which I call the fi accelerator. This is where you'll be able to get the course and get all the stuff you'd get with the course normally, but you'll also get a 90 minute live group coaching session with me. So you'll get that live session with me, be a small group, and we will walk through the high level concepts of the course, and we'll have hot seats, and I'll be able to answer your questions directly. We'll also have a template that you can actually take and start implementing your plan immediately. And yes, the call will be recorded. If you can't make it live, the call will be on December 2 at 7:30pm Eastern time. But if you can't make it live, you'll get the replay if you join that option. And the third option is what I call the VIP option, is for those who really want high touch and want one on one time with me. Now I don't usually offer one on one time with me, but I realized that I've been asked about it so many times, and people really want sometimes that hand holding, which I totally understand. And so I'm offering just a select spot of this VIP option where you'll get two private one on one strategy sessions with me, and that's in addition to the course and all the other bonus information and things you'll get when you also purchase the course. And so there's three options, I believe it makes it accessible and allows for people to choose what works best for them. If you are interested, go to journey to launch.com/fi

Jamila Souffrant 3:42

course, I'm not actually offering this for that long of a time, so go to journey to launch.com/fi course, for more information and sign up and choose the option that works best for you. If you want the episode. Show Notes for this episode, go to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode in the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned, and so much more. Also, whether you are an OG journeyer or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes to listen to, stages to go through, to reach financial freedom, resources and so much more you can go to journey to launch.com/jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode. Hey, hey, hey, journeyers, welcome to the journey to launch podcast today. I have a special guest, someone who I've grown to know more about because she's been a part of the journey to fi coaching program, not once, but twice, and has been a long time journeyer and supporter. Her name is Latoya Rowe, and she has been through. Through the thick of doing the work, and she's been committed to the journey, committed to getting out of debt, shifting her mindset, building a path towards financial independence. As I mentioned before, she's been in the journey to fi course that I have and coaching program, and she has been making such strides. I'm so proud of her, and I wanted to have her on the podcast to share more of her journey, to hopefully inspire and help other journeyers who need to hear from someone in the thick of it, and to give us the insights and lessons she's been learning along the way. So Latoya, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, I'm really excited, so I want to get started maybe a bit about your background. We'll get to, like, financially, what you're doing, and have you, you made some real great changes in your life, but let's kind of take it back to where you're based, maybe a little bit your family profile. I know you're a mom and what you do for a living, yeah.

Latoya Rowe 5:54

So I am based in Orlando, Florida as of now. I work in healthcare. I am an advanced practice, anesthesia provider. I am a mother of two children. I have teenagers or preteen and a teenager. So yeah, that's my that's my story right now.

Jamila Souffrant 6:12

Love it. Love it. Now, I always say there's like general personal finance, which is great. I think most people, not most people, most people find the importance of it and stumble upon it and need it. And then there's this, like next level. What I like to talk about is, like financial independence. It's almost like the next level of the basis of personal finance. So tell me when you got introduced to the fire movement financial independence, and where you are on the journey right now. Yeah.

Latoya Rowe 6:39

So I think that, like you mentioned, the basis of being interested in personal finance, wanting to steward and manage whatever I received and do well with it, but I didn't know exactly how to do as much with the tools that I was given. Growing up, I knew how to work, how to work hard and how to save and I've always been a hard worker, but I think I got introduced to fire, actually, when I was in grad school. So we I had long commutes as I had to go through my different clinical rotations. Some of those commutes I was I was in Atlanta at the time, so you know how Atlanta traffic can be really crazy, but I spent a lot of my time just listening to podcasts, and I think I just happenstantially, stumbled upon one or two personal finance podcasts, and it the idea that, well, I'm working towards a greater possibility for income than I had before. And all I was thinking about as I was deciding, as I was going through that part of the journey, is, how can I make as much out of this as possible if I have this opportunity to earn more, how can I do something that is extraordinary, and I just didn't know how to it was kind of accidental, as I was listening to those podcasts. But the idea that not only could I make and earn a lot, but that I did not necessarily have to work for as long as the prescription said, That blew my mind. And I always knew that I didn't want to work as hard, and especially after I had children, I knew that I wanted to be able to spend more time with them. So there were the reason why I even wanted to go to school again. And then once I learned about fire, I was like, Yeah, I'm in more of a position to be able to do it than I ever was in my life. And then when I was hearing all of these stories about people who had the capacity to earn, but it was very average salaries and to be able to do really powerful things with it, I was like, well, then I have no excuse. I should definitely be able to do this.

Jamila Souffrant 8:36

So how, how far like, How long ago was that like, Did you always have this career path, or did you switch? Or just acclimate us?

Latoya Rowe 8:43

No, I did switch. I did switch. So I came out, I started working in a research lab, and wasn't earning as much as you probably would think you should be earning if you had a bachelor's in science. And so I guess real life happens, and having to stretch those finances with two little ones, I just realized that something's got to give. There's just just not enough to go around. There's not enough to take care of all the things that were necessary at the time, and so just finding myself working hard, but then either not being able to get enough overtime or just not being able to earn enough to actually, like, dig myself out of the debts that were accumulated. So my decision to go into this path was really like, Hmm, how can I catapult to the next level?

Jamila Souffrant 9:28

And so you decided on this career path. How did you decide that was the choice

Latoya Rowe 9:33

that was kind of happens, happenstantial too. Okay, I had actually learned about it from one of my colleagues who had gone into this profession, and just started asking some more questions. I had constantly been like, surveying the job boards while I was at my job and figuring out, like, Okay, I'm not getting paid enough. How can I earn more? And so I would look at all these different job postings, and I'm like, okay, that earns a little bit more. What's the qualifications for that? And so I would just kind of like, go through all of the job postings, and then I saw the job. Job posting for my job. And I was like, wait a minute, maybe I could investigate more about that. And so I did, learned what it would require and that I would have to go to school for it, and realized that I had a lot of the prerequisites already completed because of my background already. So I learned about it kind of accidentally, because I was searching for ways to earn more money, right?

Jamila Souffrant 10:24

Well, you were following the breadcrumbs, or, as I like to say, I said it in the book, you were clicking on the hyperlinks in your life, being curious the rabbit holes, right? Was like, Okay, maybe me, maybe like knowing someone who did the job, but then having just a wherewithal to say, You know what? Let me just inquire, so is the job that you said that was the posting, the job you actually took, or it was just a similar type of job?

Latoya Rowe 10:46

No, it wasn't similar. So I was, I was working in a research lab, and my job, I'm working in a clinical setting, and so I just happened upon a job posting from the organization that I worked at, and when I saw that posting, I kind of like calculated, okay, what's the LEAP I would have to make in order to be qualified for that job?

Jamila Souffrant 11:06

And how long did it how much about money or time did it take to get from where you were? There were some gaps right, that you had to fill in, yeah. So how long did that take? Because I think that stops people too. Is that one they've been in the career path for a little bit. They think about all the time and money may be spent during that and now it's to pivot to something else, and they have to do the math on it. So for you, what was that gap and how did you close it?

Latoya Rowe 11:30

Yeah, so one of the things I looked at was, what would be the potential earning, how much time would I have to spend, and how much loans would I have to take in order to go through the program. And so initially I was thinking that I would go through with no loans. I would try to get as many scholarships as possible. Life was lifeing. So when it came down to balancing applying for scholarships, I was far more ambitious in my mind than I was actually able to carry out. So I ended up taking a lot more loans than I anticipated initially. But my deciding factor was, if I'm going to take out this many loans for what I'm doing, can I earn enough to make it make sense? And when I calculated how much was the potential earnings at the time and how much loans I would be walking away with, in theory, it seemed like it was a stretch goal, but it seems doable to be able to pay those loans off in probably three years.

Jamila Souffrant 12:24

And were you still able to work while going to school? You had to No, no, okay,

Latoya Rowe 12:28

so initially I thought I probably could flex it, because I'm like, I'm a hard worker. I could I, but then those clinical experiences were definitely intense, and the coursework, everything about it, was very intense. So there's some programs that require that you do not work, that you actually sign an agreement that you will not but even if I try to, I wouldn't be able to swing it.

Jamila Souffrant 12:50

So and how long ago was this that you made that change?

Latoya Rowe 12:53

That will be just about 10, little over 10 years, the one back in about 2014

Jamila Souffrant 13:01

Okay, got it. So we're back in 2014 so you now been in this career for a while now, and so when you were in that school, that's when you stumbled upon financial independence and kind of like, the world and, okay, now tell me a little bit about like, let's just jump forward and what kind of will go back and forth. Because I know there is just some, I want to give some insight to kind of where you are now versus where you started. But you joined my program. It's so funny. I called it has like two names map your path to financial independence or journey to fi and one of the things that stood out about you, I feel like you, you know you were on the calls, like I did a first round, and you joined that first round of the program, and you were on it, and you were engaged. And it was great. And then when I launched the program again a few months later, you were like, one of the first people to sign up. And I was like, Okay, this is, like, amazing. Like, either, like, I mean, she wouldn't be investing in it again if she didn't get something out of it. But I was like, wow, she's really on it, like she is determined to succeed. So I kind of want to go back to what made you sign up for the program and what ultimately had you come back, and then we'll talk about the strides you've made.

Latoya Rowe 14:14

Yeah, so I think it kind of all pulls in. So if you notice, the timeframe from when I started and got interested in fi to the time of where I am now, or where I was at the start of the program, I had been working and trying to avoid the kind of pitfalls of lifestyle creep, and trying to make the sound decisions, making sure that I was saving and investing and making sure that I was, you know, putting away towards My retirement, but I also recognized that I was doing it all on my own, and there was something that kind of clicked, that made me realize that maybe I can't figure this out by myself. Maybe I need community to kind of anchor it in and help me to actually make those strides. And so I kind of lament. It at the fact that even as I was going through the journey, or even as I was going through school, and even when I started my career and actually started working, I didn't have as many colleagues to talk to who were actually interested in talking about money, and sometimes we talk about it in passing, but I wanted to have more conversations about it. And so I was like, this course is an opportunity to meet my like minded people who actually want to talk about money in real life, not just, you know, like, buy a podcast or from a distance, like, I actually can meet people and talk about it and actually take actions and steps. So that's what really appeals to me, and what the value that I got from it was just being in that space where I was able to be held accountable and take the steps and ask questions if I got stuck or stumbled on something?

Jamila Souffrant 15:41

Yeah, I think too, like the missing kind of piece, and it depends on where you are, because you have to be ready for that next step. I think a lot of people can do a lot on their own. Some people, it depends on your personality and your motivation. I always liken it to the gym, right? Like, I think when I first started going to the gym, and there are certain points where it's like, I do, like the community of a class, a gym class, being with other people, it helps me stay motivated. Because, all right, they're keeping up. I got to keep up, and it's great. And then there are points in my journey where I like working out by myself. I'm like, self motivated. Don't need as much accountability. And then there are times where I'm like, oh, I need to join a class again, because I know from around other people, it feels different. And even running, running is something as I'm talking, I'm thinking about when I run them by myself, it's fine, but when I run and the half marathons, the two that I've done so far, it is amazing. The energy and support you feel and get from other people around you. And I think on our journeys, it's so important to have a space, to land, a space, to bounce questions, or just even to have accountability, even if you're not even saying anything, because I've had people in the programs, or even when I've had communities and they're not really saying anything, but they're there, and it helps just the energy of the room, or the energy of the chat and whatever it is. So I just think it's such an important thing that whether it's my program or not, is to find those spaces, whether in person or online, that you feel you can be accountable to and get gives you that energy to keep going.

Latoya Rowe 17:12

Yeah, definitely, I can't agree with you more. I and that was the missing link. And to be fair, for all of the time that I had been spending the energy to save and invest and listen to a whole lot of podcasts being able to be in that space. I feel like I've taken great strides in the in that probably like decade span. But if I had community probably at the beginning, I probably might have already hit my FY goal by now, or been a lot closer to it than I am now. So I'm excited about just connecting with people and getting braver about talking about money in that space, and in a way that makes it more normal, makes it more we actually can talk about these details, and it's not such a scary thing to bring up.

Jamila Souffrant 17:56

So you were aware of Fi obviously, before joining the program, but then it helped in the program to kind of get you focused. But what were some of the things that were really helpful that you can help share with other people that was pivotal in making strides for you?

Latoya Rowe 18:15

Yeah, I think the spreadsheets were amazing because it helped you to know exactly what to input. And then I love the videos that kind of stepped us through how to use the spreadsheets, right? Because you can find a whole lot of spreadsheets online, but you don't always know how to input the data or what how that applies to you, and sometimes it doesn't apply to you. And figuring out how to make that work for you, that was really helpful for me, right,

Jamila Souffrant 18:37

right? And when you say spreadsheets, because there's a bunch of them, you know, there's an assessment. And this is, these are things that I feel like are so important. So one of the things that we do in the program is we have an assessment, and I force you guys to put the numbers down, like where you currently are, because ultimately we work up to working with the fire calculator, to where you want to be in mapping out that pathway, and you knew your numbers. I think one of the things that we talked about in the program was like budgeting and finding a system that worked for you. But do you find that seeing the numbers and putting them down and having like that dedicated time to do that was helpful?

Latoya Rowe 19:13

Yeah, it was definitely a dedicated time. Because I think you can, you can make the intention of doing it, or say you're going to do it on your own, but then life gets in the way. Right? Like, I'm a parent, I'm busy. I have work, I have other activities that are like, outside of work and outside of the children, and you make the best of intentions, but when you have an appointment scheduled to be with other people, it's kind of like, okay, I'm going to sit down and do this, or at the very least, I'm going to try to show up with my homework done, which I think if I don't know if you remember, but in the first round, I didn't always have my homework done every night, because, like, I would come in the evenings after work and be like, oh my goodness, I didn't actually, like, tabulate all of these things. So having the time designated to be able to do the homework that is important. And I'm really grateful that we. Had to do that in order to move to the next step

Jamila Souffrant 20:02

when it comes to mindset, what were some mindset shifts that you had and that you think is important to share with people who are on this journey right now who want to do some things?

Latoya Rowe 20:13

Yeah, mindset is such a big part of it. I know that you had mentioned it in the beginning, and I almost took it for granted, especially during the first round, and then when I kind of sat with it after the program was over, I realized that it didn't give it as much thought as I wanted to, and so when I started to explore it, it really lit the fire for me, and that's kind of what motivated me to want to go through another round, because now I actually had a more powerful why for why I need to fill in these numbers and why I need to show up and do my homework, and why I need to have these things put together. So the mindset was everything.

Jamila Souffrant 20:47

And then we talked, there's an exercise we do with visualization and understanding, like what you're doing this for, like what your dream life or dream day is, and I think that's so important to know, and it can change. I always say, listen your ideas of what is, quote, unquote perfect, which, by the way, nothing is perfect. Your mind will change. It will evolve, right? But to understand that and have that in your mind, and then to create a life towards that, like becoming that person that achieves that in the future. But you can do that and be that now, even without the things externally, allows you to get there. So talk a little bit about that experience, or how you envisioned your life when you thought about

Latoya Rowe 21:23

it? Well, to be entirely fair, there was a point where I didn't know if I was even going to be able to reach my fi goal. Because a lot of times when you talk to people and you even mentioned the number that you're aiming for or that you even want to consider retiring early, they immediately are like, Oh yeah, that's not likely. Like, you're just being lazy because you're young and you're millennial, you don't want to work. And I'm like, No, it is actually possible, but so you have to be around people who actually can't imagine it to be possible for one and you have to have the right tools. And so at the time when we were doing our journey, I don't know if I think I'm probably like, had lost hope that I would be able to actually hit that number, because I was like we had made certain decisions over the years, that even though I was trying to avoid lifestyle creep, it still ended up happening things that the children required definitely influenced those decisions, and sometimes my spending had gotten a little bit more out of control than I had envisioned it getting when I started this journey back, you know, like even going back to school. So it gave me a chance to kind of rekindle my fire, if you will, about the possibility that that fire could be achieved.

Jamila Souffrant 22:35

So you don't have those five Junior stages, and there's the debt payoff stage, the cadet stage, and then accumulation of wealth, which is the aviator stage. So where were you like, tell me if you can just kind of, even if it's a broad picture of where you are with your debt and investments, so we can get a sense and acclimate to how far you are away from your number.

Latoya Rowe 22:56

Okay, so I had it pinned up in front of me to kind of remind me and kind of keep me focused. So I want to tell you that when we started, I was actually in the cadet mode. I will say that I'm kind of like in a hybrid stage where I'm I had always been serving for retirement, because that was part of, like my code of ethic. I always learned from the moment that I started working that you should always start saving for retirement. So so I had always been saving for it, but I had also been accumulating debts, and so I was actively working on paying off debts and trying to figure out how to reallocate the money that I was putting away for retirement versus the money that I was accumulating in debt that was eroding my entire my retirement. So I put much more of a focus now on getting rid of the consumer debts. So right now, it looks like I might be about five months away from getting rid of my consumer debts, which is really exciting, because once I started making the commitment to do it, it's like I had much more incentive to put extra Yes, and when I saw how close it was, I was like, this is very doable, and so I think it might be very close. And another thing is that I had these huge debts from the properties that we had, and recently we made moves to kind of consolidate and sell many of those properties. So some of them weren't doing as well. And so now that's kind of like, frees up my energy to focus on getting rid of any other debts, and then I can always rebuild that part later on, if that is part of the journey for later. You know, yeah.

Jamila Souffrant 24:32

And I think you mentioning that you own property and sold it, or you sold it, or you're selling it,

Latoya Rowe 24:37

I sold them, yeah. So they are sold as of now talk a little bit

Jamila Souffrant 24:41

about that, because I think real estate, I'm assuming, hopefully, I don't know, you tell me when you bought it, and by the time you sold it, there was appreciation, or at least some up side.

Latoya Rowe 24:50

There was some in some cases, and then in one case, there wasn't very much at all, just because of the timing of when we purchased it and the timing of when it was sold. And I think it was all. So a lack of knowledge on my part about how to calculate what parameters would make something profitable versus what would make something less profitable, and maybe if we had stuck to it, we could have figured it out, but there were a lot of costs that we incurred along the way that was making it very hard to focus on getting on track.

Jamila Souffrant 25:19

And I think it's important, because you might have made decisions in the past that at the moment, felt okay or good for your journey, and then are coming to a point that perhaps it's something you have to let go of or remove from your journey. And I don't know about you, but I know that, like for me, and like real estate, the condo that I still own, like, it's very much a part of, like, my life and my identity. Actually, I'm not afraid to say, like, part of my ego, in a sense of I bought this at 22 like, but understanding that these are assets and things that I have to recognize if it's going to be harmful to the journey or something that's holding me back and not something I can upkeep, that I have to be okay with parting with it, and that's going to look different for everyone, yeah, and everyone's situation, but it sounds like you finally made peace with letting go of it, and are now in a better position to focus in the way you want to.

Latoya Rowe 26:17

And cannot speak to the point about it being part of your identity. It was definitely a major component of my identity. I mean, for one thing, I was very proud of the fact that I was able to do that, and I was proud of the fact that I had worked towards it, and I had something very tangible to show for it. And, yeah, there was some ego attached to it, for sure, I'm not gonna lie. It was a morning process to get through that, and it took me a while to finally decide that that's that's what we'd have to do. And it was not an easy decision. But now on the other side of it, when I look at the net sheet, and I realized that the amounts that were my liabilities and the amounts that were my assets, clearing that liability off the table, just changed the numbers altogether, and I could see it happening more soon, where there's so many unpredictable aspects about real estate, like you don't know what expenses are going to come up. You can make estimates, but sometimes you don't know when that AC is going to break down, or you don't know when that roof is going to need a repair. And you might have just done a repair, but you might have to do another repair. And if you have renters and something gets damaged or broken, I mean, you have reserves for those things, but sometimes you don't anticipate some of those damages, and sometimes it can get really costly,

Jamila Souffrant 27:31

yeah, and just the emotional, you know, there's an emotional labor that comes with owning something, and I know that there for some people, you know, I know a lot of people who are in real estate and it works, and they don't mind it. They don't mind it. They don't mind potentially getting that call or email in the middle of the night. And, like, I don't even have a property that needs a lot of attention because it's in a condo. But even for me, when, like, there was one point last year with it's the way things worked, all the appliances were needed to be changed out, and it stressed me out a bit. Yeah, just because, you know, I want to be a great landlord, and I want to answer my tenant, and I want to make sure that they're good, and so if I knew there was discomfort or something that needs to be fixed, like that's at the top of my mind all day. And so I do think that it's just something to be aware of with yourself, and maybe it's something you could handle at one point, and maybe your life a little bit more complicated, I know, for me, having kids and being kind of strapped with all the things I need to do for them. Managing real estate is not something I want to do. I just want to make that a lesson for anyone. And not to say, don't buy real estate and don't be an investor if that's something you can do and handle, but just to be aware if you are feeling that because you have property or something else in your life, that it's okay to reanalyze and potentially let it go if it's not serving you. Yeah.

Latoya Rowe 28:44

And to your point, it's almost like understanding your risk tolerance when it comes to investing the risk score, like, how would you emotionally handle when you get that call in the middle of the night, or when all the things break at the same time? It's one thing, if they break, scattered out and you can at least recover it and build it back. But what happens when everything happens at the same time, in the middle of the winter or in the middle of the summer, those things can really like shake you up, and if you have enough of those highs and lows, it can really make you feel like you don't want to do it anymore.

Jamila Souffrant 29:16

Okay, so if you enjoyed the chat with Latoya, where she shared her experience with going through the course and the program with me, then you should check out the map your path to fi course and the tiers that I'm offering this go round. You can go to journey to launch.com/fi course for more information. So in terms of your fi goal, can I ask if you are doing that? I know you have children. I don't know if you have a partner on this journey with you, or what that looks like, but where are you on the path? Because I do think that having real estate helps. If you're able to sell I'm having a high paying job is helpful. You live in Florida, you know, maybe you. Cost versus living in New York City, you know,

Latoya Rowe 30:03

yeah, compared to New York City might be low cost, but it really depends on what you are looking at and what you there. I mean, I would say things like rent is probably lower cost, but then some parts of Florida can be really expensive. So I'm in the Orlando area, which is, it's not cheap, but it's not, uh, I wouldn't call the lowest cost of living area, but it's better than others, right,

Jamila Souffrant 30:29

right? So then, like, partner wise, and then family wise. How? What does that journey look like for you?

Latoya Rowe 30:35

You know, talking about money with a partner, it's loaded. It because money is not just a tangible thing in a material good. It it's attached to our values and our beliefs and our hopes and our fears and all of our emotions get pulled into it. So when you're having a conversation about money, you're not just talking about money, you're talking about, what are people's goals? You're talking about, what are people's dreams. And sometimes that can be a really sensitive dance to have with a partner. It's good to be on the same page, and that definitely makes it easier. So if you can find the language that matches, so that both of you can get on the same page, you know, makes the conversations a lot more easy. Yes.

Jamila Souffrant 31:17

The other thing is, How far along are you towards your fi goal? So if you have figured out your fi number, and just to kind of just give people context, in case, this is the first time they're hearing about fi, financial independence and fi number, typically, that is, if you want to do a quick calculation, the fi number is your annual expenses that you want to spend in retirement or early retirement times 25 gives you a nice big number. So the more you want to spend, the more money you need. And it's why, when people first kind of calculate it, it feels big if it can feel impossible, depending on your starting point. So how far are you along to that number? And also want to say that the way yet people can start thinking about the fi number is not just the amount in their investment account, like obviously that's going to be important in their retirement accounts, but their ability to generate income, where it could be, whether it's part time work or work you enjoy, and have a lot of control over the timing, where it doesn't really feel like you're retired because you're still working, but you can think about And factor in your future, what a more balanced and flexible fi life, semi retired life looks like.

Latoya Rowe 32:29

Let's see my calculator. Your fire Calc? Yeah, I'm trying to refer to it. I want to tell you that the number was like 1.8 million.

Jamila Souffrant 32:40

That's about $72,000 a year in expenses, correct? Yes. Okay,

Latoya Rowe 32:44

yeah. So I think that was roughly what I had estimated based off of the spending that I was doing. Not to say that I intended to spend the same way, but I also didn't want to lowball it and then find myself coming up short, right, right? So based off of the expenses that I was doing now, and assuming that maybe, if something's changed, maybe the nature of the expenses were going to change, but probably the number might, might stay, on average, the same. Just to give me myself that room, yeah, 1.8 million is what I came to now, how far I am from it, that's yeah.

Jamila Souffrant 33:16

And then while you're looking up that, I'll just talk just a little bit about, when you're thinking about the number, is that, like Latoya said, you know, for me, when I think about my number, in the future, we wouldn't have a mortgage, but that might be replaced at that line item, that very hefty line item, for us, it will be replaced by not being limited to going out to eat or taking vacations. And so I like to actually be more conservative, meaning I don't like to do a bare bones fi number where I'm assuming I won't spend any money, or less money. Right now you can think that way, if you really I mean, I thought that way when I was starting out, because I wanted to get to my fi number as soon as possible. And so a lot of people try to, like, thin it down to see what's the least they can spend. But it's important to think through and create almost you can create different budgets. This is why I love the fire Cal and helping people model it out in in the spreadsheet, in the tool that I've created, that Latoya used, is because you can then use different numbers. You can, you know, okay, what if I want to have a bigger lifestyle. What if I want to a bare minimum? Because, you know what? I rather have a bare minimum and not have to go to work or not work in this job that I hate, and I'll cut back expenses to only spend 50,000 a year, right? So just you can think through different things as you model out what you want your fi life to look like, right? There's different scenarios, and you can also just generalize too. You don't have to like, give like specific numbers. Would you say that you are on track within the next 1015, years to achieve that? Or you'd have to make some changes to get there. I

Latoya Rowe 34:54

think I would probably have to make some significant changes. So I think it probably means that. Going to have to work a little bit longer than I had anticipated. I was thinking of being able to retire in my 40s. That was kind of like what my initial ambition was. But when I ran the calculation, not to say that it's impossible, but it definitely would be lofty if I choose to keep things the same now, if I choose to peer back, that I probably can hit it, but just the fact that I know I have dependents, things can change. Their needs may change. I didn't want to cut with the bare bones calculation. So probably it looks more likely that I'm going to see it probably in my mid 50s.

Jamila Souffrant 35:36

Yeah, still good, which is still earlier. That's why I say, like, shoot for the moon. And even if it's further out than you'd like. What you'll find is you'll it's probably earlier, though, than the standard age. Yeah. So tell me about your your work. So I think what happens too, as we are on this pathway, and we realize that it might take a little bit longer, depending on what we're not willing to give up or give up, is that we have to come to peace with like, the current work that we do. We either have to decide, okay, this is what I'm going to do, or think about different things. And so talk about the balance of you. Know, I know you're a mom too, but like the work that you do, and do you foresee yourself doing that same work throughout the whole time? Or you're not sure, what does that look like for you in terms of flexibility? Yeah,

Latoya Rowe 36:18

I think that's a great question, because I would say that initially, when I was on this journey, because I was so motivated, I specifically looked for the highest paying jobs, and so I sought them out, and I also would be willing to change jobs to get a higher pay. And I did that a series of times, but I recognized the cost benefit of that, that there's other impacts that moving to a new location or moving to another state can have, impacts not just on myself, but on my family, my children, and how their stability and their comfort and so it has challenged me to think a little bit differently about what the long term looks like. I also happen to notice, and this is not necessarily a given or it all. It doesn't always happen this way, but sometimes the higher paying jobs come with a little bit more stress, and when I was hungry about this early, I was willing to take on more stresses. But then as I actually started to experience the stresses and realizing that sometimes I can't power down, or I can't relax in the places where I'm not there, or when I'm on call, or I'm working in times where maybe it would be nice to be spending time with my family instead, recognizing that that's not a trade off that I'm willing to do anymore. So the way that I've selected job opportunities has really changed, like I will not take call. This is something that I'm just not interested in doing it's available, and there's plenty of compensation for it for all who are available and ready for it. But I'm not raising my hand for that one at all. I would prefer not to have to work on weekends. I would prefer to not work nights. So these are kind of like my hard lines that I didn't have in the initial stages, and thinking to myself, well, if this is going to take a little bit longer, little bit longer than I need to have longevity, which means that my whole being has to be well enough to keep on doing this. So I have to have a more balanced environment, a place that I at least can enjoy a little bit more, and that I won't always be stressed. And so where started and where I am now looks different. But then where I anticipate where I'm going is that I'd like to be able to cut back hours a little bit more, and I'd like to be able to dabble into other ventures, and I'd like to be able to spend more time in spaces that I've established in terms of side hustles, and so my focus is not just in the space of what I do for my nine to five, I'd like to be able to spend my time doing other things to be able to generate income as well.

Jamila Souffrant 38:45

Yeah, I find that for a lot of us in the beginning, especially when we are like, hungry, like you said, and yearning to get out of a situation or or dig our heels in, and kind of frog leap, you know that you're willing to do those things. Maybe you were younger also back then, so we had more energy.

Speaker 2 39:01

Yeah, that's the thing, right, right?

Jamila Souffrant 39:05

But ultimately, and I think this is where the freedom part without financial independence comes in, is that you have the luxury to turn things down or to opt out, even at the sake of money or more zeros in the bank. It's like, that's not even worth it to me at this point, I prefer the choice, like, I don't have to do that. It'd be nice, but I don't have to. So I think that's something to celebrate. And if you're listening to this and you find yourself you're not there yet and you're still in that grind mode, is that that is something you can expect to experience, even without getting to your fi number, is that you will eventually have choice and options, which is the whole point, yeah,

Latoya Rowe 39:43

yeah, and that. And you know, that also attests, like, the why behind all of it, it's not just about having a whole lot of money, although that's nice to have, but that's not the actual main motivation. It's about having the freedom to say, I don't have to ask about how I spend my time, where I go, when I do it, my time. Time is mine. It belongs to me, and I get to decide what I want to do with it, and if I want to allocate it towards spending more time with my children, if I want to spend it more time doing something that's a hobby or an interest of mine, I don't have to justify it because it's productive or useful to somebody else. It's because it just lights me up and gives me joy.

Jamila Souffrant 40:17

Yeah. So I love that. Latoya, tell me a little bit more about what you're looking forward to, where you kind of see yourself over the next few years.

Latoya Rowe 40:26

Yeah, yeah. So one of the activities that we did, and this is the part that really lit me up, was when we started imagining what our future could look like. I had mentioned that I'm a lifelong learner. I love learning, but I also love teaching. And so, you know, even when I was making my decision tree about which career I was going to follow, teaching was on the top of that list. But it was when I looked at what my passion was, and I looked at what was practical and how I could get there faster, it seems to make more sense to follow this path. So being able to explore the possibility of being able to spend more time in that teaching slash coaching space. That was something that I got inspired to do in this course. And so I don't know if I can say I don't know if I should say it or not. You tell me, yeah. Come on this Yes. So I've been working on, you know, getting a coaching certification, working with individuals to map out their strategies for their businesses. And so learning the mechanics and the fundamentals of what it takes to start a business and grow and build a business is something that has given me a lot of joy and a lot of pleasure lately. And so when I tell you that, like before, when I started, I was just imagining the possibilities, and that literally spurred me into exploring this possibility, and I'm going to be done with my certification in the next

Speaker 3 41:49

month. Yeah. Okay, awesome, congrats.

Latoya Rowe 41:52

So I'm really excited about that, and I've already started working with clients, and I've already started coaching, and it's it's been amazing, because I feel like my confidence has grown significantly in that space. And so I wouldn't have been able to think about that had I not started looking at the mindset behind the why and what a future could look like, and how I could be spending my time. And now I have choice to say, Okay, now I did a little bit of what I had to do, now I get to do a little bit more of what I want to do. And so that's really exciting. And so I anticipate spending up probably a lot less time in that clinical space and probably a lot more time in the coaching space. So I'm looking forward to that, right?

Jamila Souffrant 42:31

And and that's the thing, like, your world opens up. Two more options open up. It's like, it's, you know, it sucks, but like, it's this idea that, why do people who already like have it, or don't need to pay for it, get it for free. Or why? You know, opportunities come to people who have opportunities already. And it kind of feels like but I do really believe that, like, once your eyes are up and open, you'd be surprised at the blessings that come to you, and whatever your faith is, partly just being blessed, but then also just your your action, you being willing and ready to meet and see the opportunity in front of you to see your skill sets. And no matter what professional career, and even the one that stresses you out, there is something that you're doing that can be be applied to another job, to earn you a lot more money, or to your own business on the side, eventually to maybe be your full time thing, like there is something there that you already possess, that you just have to be open to and do the work and show up and invest in yourself in certain things and learn right like you mentioned being a lifelong learner. So I think that's all amazing points that people are taking in right now.

Latoya Rowe 43:33

Yeah, it points me to that phrase I think one of my teachers shared with me like, look, favors the prepared. So when you show up prepared and you're ready, it's more likely that you're going to get lucky, because you just happen to be in the right place. Just like you're prepared, you're ready to get lucky.

Jamila Souffrant 43:51

Yes, yes. Oh my gosh. Okay, so Latoya, are there any, I mean, you shared a lot already, but is there any advice or tips that you would give fellow journeyers listening to this, whether they feel like they're behind, maybe they don't feel like they're where you are and they want to be, but something that can help motivate or inspire them like an action item that they should do or think about as they leave this episode,

Latoya Rowe 44:12

I would say, Get in community with people. Make conversations about money more normal wherever you can be in a space where other people want to talk about and share and think about the possibilities of what you can do, that will be a place where you can anchor and get that accountability just spending that space with other people in like minded spaces that's so powerful, you can have great ideas by yourself, and you can read A ton of books and listen to as many podcasts as you want, and it's almost like you're having to reinvent the wheel when you're doing it by yourself, but when you're doing it in company with other people, it's like you're able to bounce your ideas, and there's a synergy when you share your ideas. So that was what caused the LeapFrog for me. It was being in the space. To other people and dreaming and daring to expand, that's what really took off for me.

Jamila Souffrant 45:05

I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that information. I'm not sure if you have, like, kind of your side hustle or business pages set up yet, but do you have anything you want to share here that people can maybe keep up and if not, I can get that later on, because this might not be out for a couple months or weeks, but you can always get back to me if you don't

Latoya Rowe 45:25

have one. I will. I will. So I'm working on my website now. We still have some kinks to work out on it, but, um, I'll send you the information for it, and in terms of like this, booking discovery calls and learning more about it, have a landing page that kind of like directs people to what it is that I coach people through, and I'm excited about it, but it's not in its finished product yet. Okay,

Jamila Souffrant 45:49

we will get that information for Latoya, but thank you so much for coming on, sharing just about your journey, your experience in the coaching program. Do they map your path to financial independence, the fire, Calc, the tools? Because I really think, I mean, I can talk about it and say that it's great, and I know it's useful and helpful, but I love bringing on people who actually have been through the program her use the tools and, like, say, see, just hear it from her, you know, like, from her real, raw opinion on how it was helpful, so that hopefully, if someone feels like this will be helpful for them, like it's an opportunity and investment they'll make in themselves. So thank you for sharing

Latoya Rowe 46:22

that. Yeah, for sure. Thank you so much for having me.

Jamila Souffrant 46:25

Don't forget, you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this and you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch.com/jumpstart

Jamila Souffrant 46:46

if you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple podcasts, rate review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm at journey to launch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And I love, love, love interacting with journeyers. There three. Support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here, so show them some love for supporting your girl. Four. And last but not least, share this episode, this podcast, with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to launch. All right, that's it until next week. Keep on journeying. Journeyers. You.

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