Episode 445: How to Fund & Live Your Dream Life Abroad with Roshida Dowe & Stephanie Perry

Stephanie Perry 0:02

I'm going to move to this place, like I'm moving to a new house or a new city, and I'm going to immediately put down roots by buying a house before I've even lived in place. That is not how you should think about your move. When you're moving abroad, we tell people all the time like your first thing shouldn't be how do I buy a house in the place I'm going to because baby, you might hate it. Probably hate the house too. Well, if you hate the city, you probably hate the house.

Intro 0:31

Now, welcome to the journey. To launch podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant as a money expert who walks her time. She helps brave juniors like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in 54321,

Jamila Souffrant 1:00

if you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. In the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned and so much more. Also, whether you are an OG journey or brand new to the podcast. I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes to listen to, stages to go through to reach financial freedom resources and so much more you can go to journey, to launch.com/jump

Jamila Souffrant 1:36

start to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode. Hey, journeyers, welcome to the journey to launch Podcast. I'm really excited because we have two special guests on the podcast together today. One is actually a returning guest. Her name is Rashida Dow. She was on episode 265 called how a career break turned into moving abroad and financial independence. She was a lawyer and turned expat, so we talked more about her story then, but she's back on with her co founder and partner in business, Stephanie Perry. A little bit about Stephanie. Stephanie quit her job as a hospital pharmacy technician to travel the world for one year, and she never turned back. She's still living her best life. She's been house sitting since 2015 as currently in Bogota, and then just to go back to Rashida. Rashida, as I kind of alluded to in the title of the last episode she was on, was a lawyer. She also retired from that profession at the age of 39 I love that for you. And is now also living her expat life in Mexico City, and they're here to inspire us to open the world more to people who want to explore living abroad. And they're going to share a bit more of their story. They're also the creators of the Exodus summit and community, which has now over 26,000 black women as a part of this amazing community, where they host virtual and live events and workshops where they teach you, show you how you can plan your Exodus, moving out of the US or wherever may you may be to just living life on your own terms in another country. They also have the Exodus Summit, which we'll talk more about later. I was lucky enough to be a guest speaker a couple years ago, and their summit is now coming back, October 10 to the 13th. You'll hear more about that, because the topic is right in alignment with what we talk about money. And the title of the summit for this year is more move abroad money. Who doesn't want that? So welcome to the podcast Rashida and Stephanie.

Stephanie Perry 3:40

Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thanks. We're super excited.

Jamila Souffrant 3:44

Yeah, so Rashida, you've been on the podcast before, but some people may not have heard your episode, so we're definitely gonna jump more into your backstory. And Stephanie, this is your first time, but I feel like Rashida, since we met kind of online, your episode, it was, it probably was a few years ago, before the pandemic. I think you came on, so that was a bit but I was aware of you since then, and your work, and I saw you growing your community and the Exodus Summit, and I just feel like it was a niche that was necessary in the world. And so I'm so glad that you continue on, and I'm excited to see this success. And Stephanie, I feel like I started to learn more about you through, you know, when I met Rashida and learning about the summit, but when I kind of looked you up, I was like, Oh, wow. Like, she's also living her best life abroad. I know so many other women want to learn how to do that, but tell us more about your backstory. So you were a pharmacy tech, that's right. Can you tell us, like, how that started and where you are now,

Stephanie Perry 4:39

I work night shift in a hospital. It's what I was trained to do in the army. I'm from Delaware, and I was living in Delaware, and my whole work life was designed just to get me from vacation to vacation, right? My I had a job so that I could take vacations, but my job actually made it really hard for me to take vacations. And. It wasn't a terrible like work environment, but it was like a lot of people's jobs were using the benefits trying to access my vacation time. And my time off was really hard. And so it was just easier for me to quit that job, save up some money first, quit that job and travel for a year than it was for me to, like, use my vacation days and travel a little bit here and there. I decided that I wanted to take a big old jump. Because every year, you're like, I still have this many more years until I think I can retire. I still had, you know, was 41 I'm like, I still probably have 30 years before I can retire. So that Job didn't stand a chance. Once I started once, I started thinking about what my other options were.

Jamila Souffrant 5:47

So did you make that jump permanently at 41 or later?

Stephanie Perry 5:51

At 41 I thought I was leaving for a year. I would come back to work, I would make some more money, I would leave again. My plan was to be a serial job quitter, right, to take a whole bunch of mini retirements anytime I could save up enough money to not work for the rest of the year. I would do that because, you know, I had worked in a particular field where I could always get a new job. So that was my original plan. Go until I can't go anymore. Come back, move in with my parents get some more money leave again.

Jamila Souffrant 6:24

No, I love that. And the reason why I brought up your age is just because, as someone who's also in her early 40s, right? Like we know our life is just starting, even though sometimes I'm like, I feel like I'm getting up there. But still we're not, we're not old. And I feel like there are a lot of women listening who whether they're younger, and it's like you have so much time ahead of you to make choices and live your life, versus maybe you're in your 40s or 50s, and it's you can change directions and do something different. So I think I'd love to hop more into there about that change of direction for yourself, because before that, like you, you lived a life, right, like you had, you know, possibly 20 years of this professional life. So can you talk about, were you always interested in traveling? Did you have your mindset on this profession, and what started to change for you to see something different?

Stephanie Perry 7:12

I always did, like travel. My parents were, we were vacation people, like, we lived in Delaware and Ohio when I was a kid, and we went to Disney World every year we're going someplace. It was, I was always into travel. One of my first trips out of the country was because we were solo, because other people backed out. And I was like, I don't care. I'm going, I'm going to Spain. Okay, I'm going to Spain. Y'all didn't buy your tickets. I got my ticket. My luggage got stolen in the airport, but I still went to Spain by myself so and travel me was always more me than work me right job, Stephanie was a little bit grouchy. And I know deep down, I wasn't a great I didn't I knew I wasn't a grouchy person, but I didn't have the evidence until I was not at work, right work, Stephanie was a little bit grouchy, always annoyed and vacation Stephanie, travel. Stephanie was like, oh, let's try new things. Let's Let's experiment home. Stephanie was very guarded, I wouldn't say very guarded, but I was more guarded with people than to travel and vacation Stephanie. So I always knew that the more time I would have traveling, the more time I would take on vacation or whatever, the better things would be for me. I just didn't know it was possible to like, live like that. I didn't know I thought you had to be born rich to be able to see the world. And that wasn't, you know, that wasn't my story. But I did know travel life was a good life, and was what ideally, like the dream version of me would get to do all the time.

Jamila Souffrant 8:46

So it was always an interest for you. I love that Rashida kind of jumping to your situation. How did you make your first, I guess, test the waters of quitting your job? Because I know you were a lawyer before, and a high paced, like, demanding job. So how did you realize, and when do you did you realize that that's not something you could do anymore, and you also wanted to go

Roshida Dowe 9:09

abroad? So very fortunately for me, I do not have to quit my job, because my job quit me. The company I was working for went out of business, and I was in the process of and I man, I hated that job. Deep in my soul, I hated that job, but for what I did, it was the only what I did was geographically limited, right? And it was the only place I could do the thing I wanted to do, where I wanted to live. And so I stuck it out, and then went out of business, and I spent months ignoring the fact they were going out of business. And then I was like, Okay, it's time to start interviewing. And I was showing up very hostile to interviews, very, very hostile. Like, why? Why would you be asking me to do this work? Like, I'm a first year attorney, like, I'm new. I would be new to the team, but I'm not. I. An expert in my field. So what is this? I was not coming interview, ready to interviews, and that's when I knew that getting a new job was gonna feel i because of what I was bringing. No matter what that new job was, I was probably gonna feel a lot like the old job because I was bringing a little too much of the like burnout, the hostility like my job had turned me, in many ways, into an angry black woman. That's not who I am normally, but being in that environment all day long had turned me into that. And so when they went into business, I was like, I can get another job, or I got a severance I can take some of the severance money and just go explore the world for a while, and I'd gotten laid off once before a long time ago during the recession, and I spent the six months between losing one job and getting the next job in constant fear, but like, my house was Gonna get foreclosed on. It wasn't right. Like, my mortgage was like $600 I was okay, right? But, like, the idea that, like, I don't, I don't, did not get a severance so I don't have, wasn't planning for this to happen. All of a sudden it was, like two weeks or less notice, the idea that I don't know when I'm gonna get a paycheck again, instead of the very first time I froze and I was really scared, and I was like, I don't know what to do. And so, like, literally, cut the cable, lights off all day, draw blinds, clothes, like, living in that kind of, like, self enclosed fear. And then the second time, I was like, Oh, this is freeing. So I went from like, a layoff being really a fearful situation to it being a really, a really freeing situation, in the sense that I was like, I know I can support myself for a year, at least with the money I have. And I know I can get another job that I maybe don't want. I know I know I have a skill set that's in demand, and I can do it in other places. And so I was like, Just go. Just go, like, instead of being frozen in fear, go live your best life. Go do the thing you really love. I love to travel. Go do the thing you really love to do, and then see what happens, right? I was like, all my friends, I'm go for a year, and then when the year is over, I'll figure it out. What's next? I'll figure it out. But I I had to get out of that like there is no paycheck coming. I will be on the street in a week that a lot of us get into when we don't no longer have a steady paycheck, which is a

Jamila Souffrant 12:37

great way to kind of talk about the foundation that you had to be able to leave both of you leave or travel, take the risk. And, you know, take that break. I'm wondering the maturity level, like I know that you there's tons of women in your community doing it at different ages. But I'm wondering too if that Rashida, I forgot if you spoke about this before, but that around the age you were when you were able to do that, because sometimes with age comes wisdom, or just more security in self, because you've been through so many situations that you know, okay, been here before, or I have more surety that I can handle this as you get older. So I wonder how much that plays into it, and then also financially, how well you were doing with the foundation of things, because I'm assuming you both were paid well in your jobs, and wondering about the debt you had, if any debt, and then how that helped you being ready for the opportunity, of whether it was getting fired and getting the severance or taking sabbaticals and taking breaks that you were prepared basically when a teacher, when life taught you that it was time to go, you're ready for The opportunity.

Stephanie Perry 13:40

I was not well paid. I made $22 an hour, and I knew that I wanted to save $14,000 to travel for a year, just not including because I was not going to keep my home, right? So I didn't need to pay any back home expenses. $14,000 it took me 15 months to save that money, and I didn't have any debt at the time. I'd already gone through paying off debt, and I never debt, and I never, I never had a huge amount of credit card debt, relatively speaking, you know. So I paid off my debt. My car was paid off, and I knew that I could live in Southeast Asia on $40 a day. And so that's it took me a year and almost a year and a half to get that money together while, like, working, basically working a part time job at my job, right? Working an extra working a bunch of extra shifts, you know, all the usual stuff, packing my lunches and cutting out all the extra expenses. Yeah, it took me a while. It was but I had a feeling that it was going to be worth it. I knew that even though this was a significant investment for me, this one year of not working, this $14,000 and this leaving my job, leaving my home, selling all my stuff, because I got I got rid of almost I got rid of almost everything, right? I knew that that was going to pay off. In the end. So I went ahead and jumped in Rashida.

Roshida Dowe 15:04

What about you? My job ended, but I was there. I just turned right before I turned 38 and so when I say I retired at 3939 was the year after, a year after I went traveling, is kind of when I decided that, like, Oh no, I'm not going back to work. Because in the year of 38 I kind of felt like I was still in the workforce, even though I was, I was on a vacation from work right at 39 I was like, No, I don't, I don't work in that traditional sense anymore. I had a good foundation in the sense that, like I said, I got a severance from work. I used that, but I've been, I've been saving for retirement since I was 18, right, like, so I've been saving for retirement for like, the next phase, the non working phase, for a really long time. I did have, for a while, I had, I was over 200k in student loan debt. I had some significant debts, but I really felt I spent years focused on paying them all off, and so before I left, I had no debt. I paid everything off. I knew I had enough money to last a year. My plan was to spend around $36,000 traveling the world for a year, and I spent that amount going to 40 something cities in like 23 countries. Back in 2018 2019 it was the foundation was there, but I didn't need the foundation I had. I think that's something that a lot of us over emphasize on is like the getting ready part, where a lot of people are just ready. The people that I saw doing this, I saw a lot of people in the UK doing like these breaks, and it would be like a waitress who goes to work for six months and then takes the next six months off. And in my brain, I was like, ain't that kind of irresponsible, right? But here I go judging her living her best life and doing the things that I would love. I would love to take six months off of work, right? But we are, we tend to be so focused on like creating the foundation, creating the strong base for what we want to do in the future, that we're not paying attention to what we want to do in the present. And so, yeah, I could have done this a long time ago. I could have done this with student loan debt. I you know what I mean, like, I could have done it on $14,000 like Stephanie did. You can do it on a much less money and with much less money to spend, and much less money saved than a lot of us think it's just, is it something you think about, and if you think about it, is it almost too scary to do it? Which I think it is for a lot of people.

Jamila Souffrant 17:47

Yeah, it's interesting bringing that up, because I could definitely see the over planning, slash, depending on your risk tolerance, how you can use that, the preparation to stop you from doing the thing and making the big life change that you actually want to make. So I think there's levels to it, right? There's people's personalities, whereas someone who is very risk adverse, they're like, Nope, I need this needs to be planned out. I need enough money. Also, I think obviously your situation, whether you are single versus with kids and like, that's going to take a lot more planning, but I do love the perspective of that a lot of us, or a lot of people, can do this a lot quicker or with less than what we think is necessary, which is why I think you guys, having this community that you have is important, because that is a point to hear from and be inspired from other people who you can hear say, wow. Like, I didn't even think that of that as a option or a method, or you did it with that, like, makes people open up their minds to a different path or something different.

Roshida Dowe 18:48

Yeah, we are. We are two black women, both Gen X, both single, both no kids. And so sometimes people are like, Well, what about if we have, well, I can't do this because I have kids. We have kids. We have a community of 26,000 black women who are doing this. A lot of them have a lot of kids, right? And they're still doing a lot of them are married. A lot of them have pets. So part of the reason that our community really works is because we're not just here telling you what to do or like we did it. You could do it too, right? There are so many examples of other women who are doing the things that are kind of like dreamworthy of the women who are entering our community,

Stephanie Perry 19:29

that's right, and let that spouse support you for a while. Take a break, right? That's why you have spouses, right? Lean on your spouse.

Jamila Souffrant 19:39

I love that. Yes. Well, okay, so one of the things too, just, I'm going back to when you made the decision. I know some of it was you traveled for the year and then decided not to go back to the traditional workforce, but in terms of attachments, like worldly attachments, or things like a house and mortgage that you have to get rid of. Even friends and family. How was that transition, or being able to separate and away from that? Was that something that was scary for you, traveling initially by yourself? What were some of those hurdles? Or, if not, they were not hurdles. But I just know that for some people, that is something they're thinking about like they're attached to their home. Should they sell it? Should they rent it out and not have to deal with it? Or they have family where this like, I don't, you know, my family is here, like, I don't want to leave them or friends. So what were some of those hurdles and or things that you had to think through to get this done?

Roshida Dowe 20:33

My timing lined up perfectly, right? Like, I was not in a relationship. Someone said they could, they could watch my dog for me. My lease was over. Job was over. It was like, the universe

Stephanie Perry 20:46

was like, Girl telling you to go, like, this is your time.

Roshida Dowe 20:50

It's time. Like, pushing me out the nest, right? But this is something we talk to people about all the time in our community, like your people, your things, your people, your pets, those things, we're all going to be looking at them from a different lens, and we're going to be dealing with different kinds of situations. And part of the question is, like, it's not, how bad do you want it? But it's like, what are the what are the ways you can make your circumstances work? When I left Ohio and I moved to the Bay Area. I own two houses in Ohio, and I sold them both, and I didn't have a mortgage on either. The full amount of the house price for two houses in Ohio would not pay for a down payment on a condo in the Bay Area, right? Like the house is a thing. We get attached to the house. It's hard to get away from. You know? We all like, we're told that real estate is so important to us, but like, it's all, it's all fake numbers, right? Like it's all, it's all just dirt. If I had bought a condo, I would probably not have left, because I would have felt like, Oh, I got it. Like, there's so much stuff to do, but once I get out of my head and how hard it is, it's actually not that hard. Like, you rent it out, or you sell it, right? Or you leave it open, or you have a friend live in it, or something, you know what I mean? Like, there's so many options furnish finders. There's so many things you can do with a home that will either generate income or at least keep it safe for a while that that's not a reason not to do. And the same thing for your pets, your people. When I was leaving, I went to see my dad, and I was like, this might be the last time I see you. And he was like, yeah, it might be. And then he died, like, four months later, very rude, very inconsiderate. Why would you do that? But it was gonna happen, whether I was there or not, like I said my goodbye. This may sound cold to some people, but he'd been sick for a long time. I knew it was going to happen. I had to say to myself that, like the situation I'm living in is not healthy, and I need to go do something else. And there are going to have to be some decisions I make for my health and well being that may not be decisions I would make otherwise.

Stephanie Perry 23:08

I didn't have a lot of relationship attachments that I had to think about when it was when I was leaving because I was in such a sad state in my life, I didn't spend time with my people anyway, right in Delaware, my parents lived less than 30 or 40 minutes away. I hardly ever saw them. I worked night shift, and part of that was that, but it was also just I was unhappy. I was in this little pit of pity. And you know, I was in a time in my life where and I was looking back instead of looking forward, looking at all the things I didn't have in life, all of the things I wish I had done, all the mistakes I've made, all the opportunities I lost or blew. And so I was not a person who had attachments, who were going to be so sad to see me go. Because, girl, you're not a happy person, and you're not I wasn't doing well, and so I felt like this opportunity was going to change things for me in some way, and the attachments, whatever, whoever I was attached to, would want this for me, even though they didn't understand my family and my friends, they didn't understand some thought I was losing my Mind. Literally, my mom thought I was having a breakdown when I was like, No, the breakdown was a few months ago. You missed the breakdown. This is the recovery. This is the healing I was finding myself. I didn't realize it at the time, but this is the this is the upswing. So attachments. It wasn't really a question for me, because life had been so yucky that I didn't have that I didn't have that concern, and that all of my stuff, my stuff in my house and my car, and I was so sick of all of it, all of it was the old life. All of that stuff was the life that I didn't want anymore, even though I only had the money to leave for a year. I was pretty sure I was only leaving for a year. I got rid of everything because I want to come back to something all new, the attachment thing. I understand people having that concern. But also, are those really things that you want to hold on to, or are you just used to them? Do you really want them in this next version of you, or are you just used to having them today?

Jamila Souffrant 25:25

It's the condition of where we live, the society we live in. And sometimes a lot of things, what we're doing is just something that was told to us that we are redoing. And what I hear from both of you, which I love, is this radical self care, and not in, like, that corny kind of, like self care, like way, but like, I'm putting myself first. And so many women, so many women, especially black women, women of color, but black women, there is a lot, you know, whether you have a partner or not, like you're in charge of a lot of things, mental load for the family, even if you don't have kids, just like extended family or siblings, or whatever that looks like. I just feel like this idea that you can choose yourself, and there may be people who don't understand or are upset, but if you're doing things for you and you're not physically harming anyone, and it's really just so you can be a better version of yourself and show up better in the world, that you deserve that. And to make that happen may take some planning and some thought, but you can do that. It's okay to put yourself first. So I love hearing those examples or that happening. It happened for you.

Stephanie Perry 26:33

Yeah, it's more than okay to put yourself work first. If you're going to live, if the average life expectancy is 76 years, or whatever it is, if you're going to live that long, don't you deserve a couple years where you do what exactly you want to do, right? Don't you deserve out of, you know, just a couple a little bit of time in that space where you're the boss of you, right? And where you say yes to everything you want to say yes to, and you say no to everything you want to say no to, don't you deserve a little slice of that life for you

Jamila Souffrant 27:06

ready to design a life you don't need to escape from, then you should check out the Exodus Summit, happening October 10 through the 13th, 2025 it's all online, and it's created by black women, for black women and their families to learn how to make money to move abroad. The truth is, Money shouldn't be the reason you stay stuck, whether that's a toxic job relationship and definitely not a country. So if you are looking to make a move and you want to start to strategize, figure out how to make money so you can leave, check out the Exodus Summit. It's happening on October 10 through the 13th, 2025, you can get your ticket by going to journey to launch.com/exodus. That's J, o, u r n, e, y, t, o, l, a, u n, C, h.com/exodus, E, X, O, D, U S. Hey, journeyers, if you are loving this podcast, then you will love my book, Your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness. I wrote this book for you. This book is for you if you want a clear and enjoyable path to having more money options and a rich life. This book is for you if you hate your commute and the fact that you need to seek approval or permission from a boss, I hated that when I worked this book is for you. If you weren't born into wealth, you didn't marry rich or won the lottery, but you still want freedom. This book is for you. If you're at a crossroads, a major decision or event is imminent, maybe a career change, marriage, starting a family, pressures are reaching a tipping point, and the discomfort and the desire for more can no longer be ignored, and this book is for you if you find yourself zoned out at meetings, looking out the window or daydreaming about the life you truly want. So go pick up your journey to financialfreedom.com. So I can show you how to map out how to get from where you are today to where you ultimately want to be. And enjoy the journey. While you're on the path, head over to your journey to financialfreedom.com. To see where you can pick the book up. It's available on Amazon, bookshop.org, Barnes and Noble, your local bookstore everywhere. Go to your journey to financial freedom.com. To get the book now. So when you guys were traveling, whether it was now, that kind of year, both of you, I think it was a year that you had enough money to survive on. What were your plans after that? To make money? Because I take breaks often in my business now, or in just life, I'm just like, I'm just not going to do this thing. And then I'm already thinking about, Oh, but how am I going to do that next year? Or how I'm going to make that, how am I going to pay for that? What did you start to think of? How did you start to think you were going to make money? And how did you start making money to help support your ongoing expat lifestyle?

Stephanie Perry 29:58

I originally. Originally thought that I was going to come back at another pharmacy tech job, work a little bit, do it again. But then I discovered house I discovered a couple of things. I discovered house sitting, and I discovered virtual assistant work, or like just working online. Being a pharmacy technician meant I shot drugs into IV bags all night long. So I didn't really think about how I could make money outside of that, and how I could make money from anywhere in the world. But then, you know, I had a little change in my pocket. Went to South Africa after the career break. After that full year, went to South Africa with a little money and started virtual assistant work, started working online, and that really changed everything virtual assistant work, plus house sitting, told me I don't need a traditional job anymore. If I got a free place to stay and I know how to make enough money on the internet to eat, I do not need a job to tell me what to do ever again. That made me completely unemployable, right? If I was, you know, on the verge before that pushed me all the way over the

Roshida Dowe 31:06

edge. Yeah, for me, I traveled for the year. My plan was to come back and get another job, just like the last job. I put all my stuff in storage because I was going to get an apartment like the last apartment and a job like the last job, take everything and live the same life I lived before. And about three months into it, I was like, I don't think I fit into that anymore, right? That is not a good fit for me in many different ways. Six months into it, I was like, imagine having to clock in swipe a badge to get into a building. Ew, because, like, honestly, a year of freedom will make you unemployable, right? And ungovernable. I am ungovernable. Stephanie be trying to govern me all the time, and she knows I'm not doing that. I'm gonna do it my way. Thank you very much, right? So the idea of like having a boss, like my old bosses, and the work I was doing was not work I could do in, like my own company, like it was very much like, I need to have an employer to do the work that I do, the specialized work that I do. But what happened was women saw me traveling, and black women saw me, and they were like, I want to do this too. How can I? How can you tell me how to do it? And I was helping them, and I was meeting with them, and I set up a zooms, and I was doing this all for free. And then I realized, if these women are seeking my advice, would they pay me 50 bucks for it, right? But take it for free. Will they pay me 50 bucks for it and the price has risen over time. But it was just that like, Oh, if I have to block off this hour and put on pants and turn off the TV and have the Calendly and the zoom to actually do all the scheduling, I might as well get paid for it, right? And that is what turned into a business for me. I'm providing a service that people want, and if I can do it for free, right, if they trust me with the free advice, they might actually pay for it too. And that's honestly how I see a lot of women in our community creating their own businesses. There's something they do. People turn to them for what is the thing? People turn to you for advice on, and how can you serve your community and yourself? So many times as black women were told that, like, all you got to do is, like, help everybody and don't worry about yourself. Just, just go out there and serve everybody, help everybody do every everything to everybody else, and nothing to yourself. And I that doesn't work for me. So I was like, I would like to serve these women, but I would also like snack money and gas money, right? I like to eat. So where's the right like? So how? How can we make this a more equitable exchange? And the equitable exchange thing is something I really see black women struggle with, the idea that, like, I have a skill, and I'm going to charge my community to access that skill. You want lights on, you got to pay for the lights like we live unfortunately, very unfortunately, in a capitalist society. Anything we want we have to pay for, except the labor of black women. And I don't think that's the way life should be.

Jamila Souffrant 34:32

I think also this idea that we have these innate, innate and learned skill sets within us that have the ability to not just change the world but also make us muddy, is something that we should be exploring, and it's interesting because you don't always know what that is until you're free, or until you start the movements, and so you take action like similar for me when I was working in corporate America. Like me starting the podcast, and what I did was really just out of being curious and trying something and learning about what I wanted to do with my life, and then it turned into this, turned into me being able to quit my job. So I just think there's a lot of opportunity for so many people to take the next steps, even if you don't know the final outcome, like you didn't know, right, that this would be where you'd be years ago. But just taking the steps unveils the next step. And sometimes it's so obvious, like you said, like there were the like the universe God was telling like, everything lined up where it was like, like, I cannot make this any more clear, the sign could not be any more bright that this is the next step. And I feel that happens when you start making the movements and doing the thing and investing in yourself that those next steps become more obvious to you.

Stephanie Perry 35:47

Yeah, it does take movement, though. It does take some action, because there's a lot of messaging in the opposite direction, right? A lot of messaging that it's not worth it to try, or it's not going to work out, or whatever, whatever. And action, movement helps you shake that off, or helps you, at least not put so much weight on those other thoughts that are coming into your head. If you're taking action, you don't have time to sit and listen to those thoughts that are like, Oh, nobody would ever want this or whatever, right? The first way that I made money after the virtual assistant work, the next way that I made money was house sitter school, right? It was teaching people to become a house sitter. You don't get paid to be a house sitter through most of the platforms, but people will pay you to teach them how to do a thing. And my brain would have told me that's ridiculous, does? It doesn't make sense. Who's going to pay you to teach them how to be a house sitter when you don't even get paid to be a house sitter? But absolutely, I would have been totally wrong, and I wouldn't have known that, except that I took action. I wouldn't have known that I was totally off base and totally misunderstanding what money is in the world, right? And how people use money and how people spend money, I was thinking about the way I had spent money, right, and the way I had been so tight with it, instead of thinking about the way other people use money to invest in things that they find interesting. And so yes, it takes action. It takes you taking steps, because what's inside of your head is probably the wrong. It's probably wrong, and you don't know it yet.

Jamila Souffrant 37:24

How long have you been now doing your own thing? Stephanie, how many years has

Stephanie Perry 37:27

it been since September 2015 we're going on 10 years.

Jamila Souffrant 37:31

Wow. Congratulations and Rashida, what about you? How long has it been since you left,

Roshida Dowe 37:35

since May 2018

Jamila Souffrant 37:38

Okay, so both long, longer times, right? This is not something new. So I know in the beginning that first year was traveling more like for fun or for exploration, and now you are both seemingly permanently in your respective locations. Is this like, where you both at Stephanie, you're in Bogota, Colombia, Rashida, you're in Mexico,

Stephanie Perry 37:58

yeah.

Roshida Dowe 38:00

What does saying mean? Right? Like we we're both people who still probably travel at least three, three to six months out of the year, I would say we're somewhere else, right? So I I pay rent here 12 months out of the year, and I know I'm here at least three months. Is that the best way to spend my money. Other people might have different opinions, but it's my money. I get to spend it how I want to. I love having a home to come back to. So even if I'm only here a week between trips, I love being here with my things, with my plants and so yes, Mexico, I've been in Mexico City for since 2019 so going on six years it for now is a permanent place that might change in the future. But my permanent place is also not a place I'm in. You know, 180 days out of the years. It's less than that.

Jamila Souffrant 38:52

How did you both decide on those places? So one of the questions I'd love to explore now is the places you choose to go, and especially for women, right? Women traveling by themselves, staying how do you how do you pick a safe space, a place where you can meet other people, hopefully see a couple of other faces like you? What does that process look like? Identifying those areas and then the cost of living, right? That is something that's going to come up if you're trying to geo arbitrage any income you're making to pay for your expenses.

Stephanie Perry 39:24

For me, I like a certain look, right? I'm not really a city person, so if I'm in a city, but I like the city amenities, okay? I like the accoutrement that come with living in cities. So I like a certain look. I want a lot of greenery. I need. I want to be able to get back to Delaware in a reasonable amount of time. So that kind of keeps me in this North and South America. North South, Central America and the Caribbean was pretty much where I was looking. And then I just want people who seem like good people. I want to go to a place and feel like people are, if not like so. Sometimes people seem kind of exuberant, like they seem really happy to see me when I walk in places. I want to feel that. Sometimes I want to go to a place where people are welcoming and warm, and where I feel like I can be in community with them. That's not always a thing you know from your research. That's the thing you know once you land into a place, land in a place. So cost of living gets me to a place, and then the feel of it, the look of it, the reception, the attitude of people, the sound of the city, right? Those things help me say, yeah, yeah, I think I can stay here.

Roshida Dowe 40:37

We help people make lists of what they're looking for in cities all the time. I always say, like, have your top five that you want, your top five that you don't want, and make sure your city matches that I didn't do any of that. This is very do as I say, not as I do, because I'm a very vibey person. So I visited Mexico City a couple times. Every time I came, I just loved the way it felt. I loved the way I felt. It felt like a natural match. And so without thinking about anything, I was like, I think I'm moving to Mexico City. And then it was like, Okay, well, what's kind of like, what's the cost range, right? It's a huge city. You can, you can be anywhere in cost in the city, where are the black I know they're black people. So where are they right? Like, it wasn't like I'm moving to a place that has black people. It was like I'm moving to a place now tell me where my people are right. Like, it was, what is life going to be like? Do I like the grocery stores? I Do? Do? I have good health care experiences and outcomes? Very much. So those are things that I kind of like dealt with after because the vibes were right. I will say that if any of the things that were important to me that I would put on a list now weren't things I could check off the box in Mexico City, I probably wouldn't have stayed here this long. But all all of the things that are kind of important to me in a move I can find here, right? It's easy to find. It's close to home. I can do all the things I want to do, every anything I want to do is accessible in this city. And so, yeah, I'm like, the vibes are right, and it's a cool place to be.

Jamila Souffrant 42:15

I'm there. Sign me up. Well, so would you recommend that people take trips to their once they make their list and maybe identify some cities that they're interested in, taking short trips and then longer trips and extending stays to figure out and really have the feel. Because vacationing somewhere or staying somewhere for just the weekend or week is one thing, but living somewhere for months years is definitely is different.

Stephanie Perry 42:40

A scouting trip can be very helpful, right? But a lot of times, people don't have the time and the money to take a lengthy scouting trip. A you know, four day scouting trip may not be super helpful. We wouldn't discourage it, but it's not. It may not be the most helpful way to know if you're really going to like this place, I think more important than the scouting trip is once you get there, be flexible. If you have shipped four shipping containers of items and you've driven down two car loads of stuff, you're stuck right, be flexible. Come down with your four to six suitcases. And if you get there and this turns out to not be the place for you, you pack up your suitcases and you try someplace else, I would say, a scouting trip, plus being packing flexibly, packing light, you're in a position to win no matter what, whether you get there and you love it, or you get there and you don't

Roshida Dowe 43:44

love it, definitely agree with that. I think that scouting trips can be great, but not everyone can do them. Some places you can figure out in four days, Mexico City is really high altitude. If you get here and you can't breathe, it may not be the city for you. And that does happen to a percentage of people, right? They get here and they're like, between, between the air and the the altitude, no, right, cool, right? You may go to a city and be like when people didn't feel warm and welcoming like Stephanie wants, and you can figure that out in four days, right? But your best bet, because you're not going to know, even if your scatter tip is a month long, you're not going to know if you come in summer, you're not going to know what it's like in December, right? Your best bet is to pack light and be flexible and tell yourself that, like, I'm checking this place out. If I don't like it, I'll go somewhere else, right? But the idea that like it feels, because I know it from America, it feels like a very American ideal, but like I'm going to move to this place, like I'm moving to a new house, or in my neighborhood or a new city, and I'm going to immediately put down roots by buying a house before I've even lived in the place. And I live here now, and I have all my stuff. That is not how you should think about your move. When you're moving abroad. It should be like a. So you're going to college for a semester, right? That kind of like, pack couple things, see if you like it, be living in the dorms. If you don't, there's some other options, right? Maybe it's another city in the same country, maybe it's different country, maybe it's different neighborhood in the same city. But we tell people all the time, like, your first thing shouldn't be, how do I buy a house in the place I'm going to because, baby, you might hate it, you probably hate the house too. Well, if you hate the city, you probably hate the house. Now, what right? You're abroad, and now what are you doing? Right? Being flexible. People talk about, you know, the people who move abroad and fail. I don't think there's any such thing as failing, but I think being flexible leads to success.

Jamila Souffrant 45:43

I like that. And I mean, there's so many topics, which is why you guys have your summit and community where you can dive in more into this. But I will say one of the things I kind of want to explore here is this idea of going to other places to live and making money online, hopefully making good money online, because and then being able to pay less for your cost of living. How that relates to the community in which you are not immersed in or living in, right? So, you know, it's weird because, you know, I'm going to use the word colonizer, and I don't ever see us as like black women purposely doing that right, but going to another place or another country, and being able to benefit off of whatever our skills, our money, from the US and whatever, that's a benefit for some people. How do we come into a community, into another country, even when we're talking about, you know, maybe I know a lot of people, Bali is a place or Indonesia, other places that are even cheaper cost of living, even the islands. How do you immerse yourself in a community without taking advantage of or taking from the people there in a way in which it feels good to now be a part of something different?

Stephanie Perry 46:58

First, you're absolutely right that we could do. We could colonize right? There's an assumption some people, some people would say, well, you're black, you couldn't be a colonizer. We absolutely could, because we have learned from the best, which is the worst. We absolutely could, and we've seen it happen before people can move to another place and decide that they want to push other people out, and that's absolutely a thing to have on our minds. Rashida is my tutor on this because she's been very thoughtful about it. She's lived in Mexico City for six years now. Whereas I've been bopping around the world from place to place, I just be like, Oh, I'm here now. I'm there now. This is my first time sitting still somewhere for a while having my own like paying rent. So I'm going to steal some of her she just answers, but I'm giving her credit in advance so she makes sure to keep her money in the city. Right? Make sure that her landlord is a Mexican person, right? My landlord is Colombian. My landlord is from Bogota. My landlord, I had to go give her some cash money. Just this morning, I walked three blocks and gave that money to Olga. Right? She is Colombian. Keeping the money in the place is a way that we can make sure that we're not extracting So, yes, the cost of living might be great. Neither one of us is really living on pennies on the dollar, but we we like nice things, but the cost of living can be great and retail arbitrage, not retail arbitrage, location arbitrage is the thing that we are doing, but how can we make sure that we are contributing and that the money that we're spending is actually going to people in that place, instead of just being shipped back to the US or the UK or Canada or something else. Rashida has been very thoughtful about that, and that is why I have been thoughtful about it. That's why I asked when Rashida came to Bogota with me in January, we looked at some apartments. Then it was my first time step seven foot in Bogota. But I was like, I'm staying we went and looked at some apartments. And that's the first question she asked. The real estate agent, is the landlord in Colombia, and are they Colombian? And that's been a really helpful way for me to think about all kinds of things, like even my little avocados. Instead of buying avocados in the grocery store, because I'm not sure what's happening, I buy my avocados from the man on the corner and the little cart, a little $1 here, $1 there, 1000s of dollars here and there for rent. How do I make sure that my money is not going straight out of the country?

Roshida Dowe 49:26

So that's something that I think about all the time, is like, where how can I best spend the dollars that I have in this community? But also, I really try to focus in on what's going on in Mexico, what's going on politically in Mexico City. What are the things that are, what locals are struggling with, and how can I be a better neighbor like we we've had a water shortage for the past few years, and so I'm really it's really hard to have all this hot water and be like but if I use a lot, there's less for my neighbor. But I do that, right? I take short showers. Hours, because even though I've never run out of water, the city runs out of water, and me being in a place where I get water shouldn't mean that my neighbors don't right, like somebody else in the community does not get water. So those kind of things are things I think about, how can I be the best citizen I can be? And I'm not going to get it right every time I'm going to like, we're you're human, you're going to mess up. But part of messing up is like understanding that you get to try again, right? And that like this, one thing you did wrong does not make you a bad person. Online, there are contingents of people who, you know, Mexico City has been in the news a lot about gentrification. There is a lot of people who, if you say anything about Mexico City, here come people saying, like, gentrify or colonize or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, with nothing to back it up. Just you're here, you're not from here, so you're a terrible person, and you must leave, which, as someone who's been an immigrant my entire life, I'm like, Oh, that's so ugly, like it's so ugly just to kind of like online attack someone just because they're not from your country, without knowing anything that they've done that is wrong or that is harmful. I understand that sheer numbers of foreigners is impacting the city, but attacking individuals instead of asking for a really solid rent control, right? Like, instead of like, talking to your government, instead of recognizing that landlords play a role in gentrification, just like tenants, regardless of where the tenants are coming from, do, these are all kind of issues that I have to wade through as someone who's lived here for a long time and is visible online in conversations about Mexico City, but I do my best, right like the, you know, the sweet potato man knows me. The shoeshine man knows me like the I am a part of my community. I intentionally do not live in an area with lots of foreigners, because I want to live I want to be known by the Mexicans in my neighborhood. I want them to feel like I am part of their community. And that's not always easy, especially because, you know, Spanish is not the easiest language to learn, no matter what anybody tells you. So I'm still six years in.

Jamila Souffrant 52:18

I was gonna ask both of you this. I was gonna ask how you guys are dealing with the language. Yes, I'm

Roshida Dowe 52:24

still thugging my way through, but the generally in person, Mexicans have been so nice, so welcoming, so kind, and so patient with my toddler Spanish, so patient with the like baby. That was not the tents you're supposed to be using, but I got you right. It feels like a good place to be, and it feels like I can live here as a part of the community without being a colonizer or with, like, maybe baby colonizer tendencies that like that aren't like impacting anyone, right? Like, I'm not asking restaurants to change things. I'm not, you know, complaining because it's loud. It's loud, right? I'm just dealing with it. Being part of the community, being immersed in the community, and knowing what's impacting them is the best thing you can do to figure out how to not be a college abroad. And I would say, and caring, right? And as black women, we tend to care about the people around us, wherever we are, and so we have a little bit of a head start in that. But if you're not, if you don't know what people are struggling with around you, it's very easy to kind of fall into the situation where you're taking advantage of that thing, or your privilege and not knowing it, right?

Jamila Souffrant 53:44

Oh my gosh. So it's so much more we can talk about, but I do want to just leave some time to talk more about what you guys are doing with the summit, the Exodus Summit. It's going to be taking place October 10 to 13th. The theme this year is more move abroad, money. Can you talk about that, the importance of it, and just more about the summit itself?

Stephanie Perry 54:04

Absolutely. So like we said, our community of black women is 26,000 strong. And when we talk about things, you know, in the move abroad space, about getting residency in different countries, and whatever, whatever they're like, yeah. But what about the money? I need the money. I can't take any steps until I figure out the money. So we bring in speakers, we bring in black women, speakers who make money a particular way that women that would be helpful to women in our audience, and they come in and teach you how to start making money that way, right? Because once you solve that problem, the other problems are less problems, right? They're less problematic once you know how you're going to support yourself in a new place, which is for most of the women in our community, not the way they supported themselves back in the US, right? It's for most of our women. It's not a traditional job. Once that question is answered and. Everything else is less of a burden. It's less of a hurdle to cover. So Exodus summit is all online black women speakers like yourself, Jamila, come in because they love helping other black women get this success, get this win, and the women in our community are super receptive and very action taking. And so the summit is like the perfect storm of information and execution, which leads to the Exodus.

Roshida Dowe 55:35

We every year we have a theme. And back in 2022 we didn't move. Our theme was, move abroad money. And every year since then, the women were like, shall we do it again? Let's do it and, and, and we have seen women who attended in 2022 one woman attended 2022 and we did a group trip in 2023 and she was like, I made all the money for this trip from the summit, right? I learned everything I needed to learn. And it was like fall of 2022 and spring of 2023 she had enough money for like, a group of one woman. Immediately, I want to say within, like two months, doubled her salary, got a new job and doubled her salary, because we don't invite in speakers who are like, Look at me. I'm great. I've done things. Don't you want to do things too? We bring in speakers who are like, all right, grab your notebook. Grab a pen. Step one, step two, step three, let's do it right? And it's really important to us that women who come in identify things they can do and identify things they don't want to do, right? We have 17 sessions of information of different ways you can learn money, but we don't want you trying to learn make money 17 different ways. We want you to say, like, number one, two and three are things I want to check out. Number 15, 1617, no, thank you, right? Like that. Does that don't sound like it's gonna be fun, right? And so that's why we bring in a variety of speakers, so that we can have women looking at different things they may have never considered, right? And saying, If I can make an extra 20k doing this life is different, right? If I could make $50,000 doing this life, my life would be different, right? And part of what we were talking about before with the geo arbitrage is that a lot of times for moving abroad, you don't need the money you're making now. One of our speakers years ago was working four hours a week and supporting herself and her son on four hours of work a week, and the rest of the time she's homeschooled because she moved somewhere where her cost of living was less and she wasn't working just to work. She was like, I'm gonna get the money we need, and then I'm done, and then we're at the beach, right? And that's something that imagine how freeing that would be, right? If, instead of working for a 40 to 60 hour a week, Hello America. If you were like, I can work eight hours a week, and then it's me and my family for the rest of the time. That is the start of a generational wealth that I want to see for more black women, right? That time, we talk about the money, but we don't talk about the time and the joy enough, right? But like, living a life where your kids are like, mom is always so, like she's always in a good mood, she's always happy, right? Like she's always here for us, as opposed to what it feels like when you're getting back from your corporate job or your government job and you're unsure if it's going to be around tomorrow. So that's what, that's really why we do is we, this is our sixth year doing the summit, and we are people who like a life of ease, so we, and this is a lot of work, so the only reason we do it is because we know it makes such a big impact in the lives of black women and their families.

Jamila Souffrant 58:46

Yeah, I want to say so if you're listening to this, you're like, all right, I'm ready to sign up. You can go to journey to launch.com/exodus that's e, X, O, D, U, S. I'll have that in the episode show notes also. But when I was a speaker a couple years ago. I mean, it was very well ran. But what I really like, too, is the community aspect of it, because a big part of this journey is finding like minded but different people that you can learn from and feel connected to. And I thought that was really impressive, the way you built that community, where you now get to interact with people based on what you heard, whether it was just in the summit or just because this community is online all the time, not just for the summit, but it's there. And so I just thought that was really good, because I think I stayed in the community for a bit even after and I was like, if I was really looking to do this, I mean, I'm not, you know, I'm kind of, I'm one of those tethered women in the US, but not in a bad way. I love my life, but if I had part two where I'd like my life was different, I didn't have kids or whatever that looked like, I'll be signing up like, Listen, how am I gonna do then, and do these things? Like, I just thought it was a great pathway. So I want to commend you for creating the community, creating the platform to teach other women to have options. That's what I talk about, having options, the freedom of choice, and having time as your most valuable asset, being used wisely. So once again, if you want to learn more about the summit, you can go to journey to launch.com/exodus E, X, O, D, U, S, for more information.

Stephanie Perry 1:00:17

Yes, fantastic. Come. You're welcome. Welcome. Please. Come. Okay, you're going to enjoy it. What happens is women come to Exodus summit who are like this. Sounds like a good idea, but I don't know that this is possible. And they leave Exodus summit with a strategy and maybe an accountability buddy, right? Maybe somebody who can walk on walk alongside you on this journey. When you attend an exodus summit event. You're not just getting that whatever you came for at the event, you're also getting a whole gang of new women in your life who are maybe a few steps ahead of you, maybe right beside you, who will make everything seem more possible.

Jamila Souffrant 1:00:59

And I just want to add, if I feel like I have to clarify this because, just because so you're listening to someone, this is my podcast, right? And I know a lot of people who follow me are inspired by my journey in my life. And this is where I think about the differences of who you are as a person and lifestyle come in. And I know like for me, I've been able to craft a life of options outside of the corporate world where I am currently, which is why, for me, this is comfortable, but just because you have kids and just because you're married does not mean you can't do what we're talking about, either. So I do want to clarify that, because I don't want someone to feel like, oh, like I'm tethered to Jamila, I guess I'll just not go. That's not it. It's just that I've been able to craft a freedom of lifestyle in New York, of all things, with three kids. And I just know that for some people, that they can't do that because of whether cost of living and life. But I just know that whether it is by following through tips you heard here or going to the summit or the podcast, that you can craft a life that you want, that you'll be happy with. So take, you know, explore, take the risk and do that for yourself.

Roshida Dowe 1:02:04

I will say that in families, it's usually the woman who's leading this right? It's usually the woman who's like, I have an idea that I think is gonna work for our family. So even if your husband's not on board, and a lot of times the husband is not on board, and the woman is like, look at this plan I have drawn up. Let's, let's check out. I remember someone was like, let's, let's just go check out the city. And then her husband went to Panama City. Her husband went to Panama City, and he was like, or went to Panama outside of Panama City. Was like, why don't we live here? And she was like, because you ain't been reading the notes. I've been right. You did not read the chat board. That's why we don't live here, right? So sometimes it really is women taking the lead on this one thing and saying, How can I outline it instead of a playbook, do whatever, and talk to the family in a way that they will understand and come to enjoy it. And then, you know, find a place you guys will all like together. Next thing you know, you live there. Ah, all right,

Jamila Souffrant 1:03:02

this is such an insightful, amazing conversation. Thank you so much Stephanie and Rashida for coming on the show.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:08

Thank you.

Stephanie Perry 1:03:10

Thank you so much. Jamila, it was a pleasure. Yes, it was more than a pleasure.

Jamila Souffrant 1:03:15

Thank you. Don't forget, you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this, and you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch.com/jumpstart

Outro 1:03:37

if you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here. Here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple podcasts, rate review and subscribe there I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm at journey to launch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, and I love, love, love interacting with journeyers. There three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you. Sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here, so show them some love for supporting your girl four and last but not least, share this episode, this podcast, with a friend or family member or co worker, so that we can spread the message of Journey to launch. All right, that's it until next week. Keep on journeying. Journeyers, you

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