Episode 395: How This Nurse Earns $230K Salary While Balancing Motherhood & Entrepreneurship

Naseema McElroy 0:02

I like nice things. I have a nice car, I have a nice house, but what I prioritize is making sure that I invest first. I pay myself first. And like I work with tons of nurses that make more money than me and are still struggling financially, and that's because they just haven't had that mindset shift of pay yourself first, make sure that you are investing first before you do these things.

Jamila Souffrant 0:29

Welcome to the journey. To launch podcast with your host, Jamila souffrant as a money expert who walks her talk. She helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom, 54321,

if you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to journeytolaunch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode in the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned and so much more. Also, whether you are an OG journeyer or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes to listen to, stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources and so much more you can go to journey to launch.com/jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode. Hey, hey, hey, journeyers, welcome to the journey to launch Podcast. I'm so excited, because I have a special, special guest. And I know I say all my guests are special, but she's truly special, because if you're an OG journeyer, she's been here since the beginning. She was on two solo episodes of the podcast, or interview episodes and a round table discussion. Her name is Nasima McElroy. You know her from financially intentional, that's the platform and personal finance friend. She's also a published author, and she has been on Episode 16 of the podcast. So that's like way back when, where she talked about from being, you know, a single mom that went from broke to paying off $300,000 in debt. She also was on Episode 121 of the podcast. So still, way back then, that was 2019 so the first appearance was 2017 the first year the podcast was out, Nasima, and then the your next one, other than the roundtable discussion, was in 2019 where you talked about paying off $1 million of debt and sharing and giving us updates on your financial journey. So now you're back, because I feel like it's been a long time, and we want to hear updates from you. Nasima is someone who I really just I love what she's doing in the space and how she encourages people and is so transparent about her journey, not only is she doing all these things on the side, like running her brand, but she's also a nurse. She's a labor and delivery nurse, and she still works, and so I don't know how she does it all. She has three kids. She's doing this on her own, running her platform and brand and working as a nurse. Nasima, I don't know, I don't know how you're like even on this call right now, but welcome back to the podcast.

Naseema McElroy 3:22

Thank you so much, and I'm so honored to be here. And yes, I'm an OG listener. I've been listening since episode one. I think I've listened to every single one of your episodes. Just love what you're doing. But also I just like to say, like, one of my things that I like to tell people when they ask me about how to get started is to change your network. And I remember really early on in my journey, just like being coming friends with you, like on social media, and then we just became friends in real life. And now it's been, I don't know how many years we've been like friends in real life, and I just want to let you know that you've had one of the biggest impacts on my journey, my personal finance journey, so I want to thank you, and I just love being here. I'm honored to be able to be on the podcast yet again, but really it's just like time to catch up, because it's just, it's been too long. It's been too long, right?

Jamila Souffrant 4:25

Yes, it has. And you know what? Now that I think about, I feel like you were the first person who left me a podcast. Because I remember, I not like, I remember I, you know, say this before I had a podcast that we were speaking, you know, like, if we knew each other, and I said to you, like, and I announced it, and I did the whole thing, like promoting, and I remember I posted the episode, and you were like, I left the first review. So, like, look at us. Look at us now

Naseema McElroy 4:49

on Apple podcast, look at how far we've come. I got two extra kids, right, right? Oh

Jamila Souffrant 4:55

my gosh. So, you know, I got my three. Now you got your three. But. Sin, okay, so what I've always loved about you is like, you're just real. Like, you know, I feel like I'm real too, but I'm not as real as you in the sense that I hold back a little bit like, I'm not, like, if you saw me with, like, my in real life friends, like, in like, real, real life. I mean, I'm still Jamila. Like, you know, they would know who I am if they heard me. Like, but like, you know, it's a little different. And I feel like with you, what I love about you is, no matter what environment you're in, whether it's like one on one, or on a podcast or in a professional setting, you're in the SEMA, you show up authentically yourself. And I just, I gotta say, I love that about you, because I think that truly is just something that a lot of people can't do for various reasons, and that the fact that you're so comfortable and able to make money like like, you know, in that way, I think it's like a gift, because a lot of people wish that they could show up and just be themselves and have to put on mask in order to earn a living. So kudos to you. And with that, I do want to ask maybe, what allows you to do that for maybe some people who are shy, to be themselves and to show up, whether it's in a job or on social media, like how you're able to do that and be so confident in yourself.

Naseema McElroy 6:06

Thank you for that. I appreciate that. But it's it's one of those things that I can do, the code switching, I can do all of those things. But i think i don't know i It's so hard for me not to be who I am, that I have to be in situations that allow me to be fully myself. And I've had to change career wise, or, you know, whatever situations I've been in, I've had to kind of just maneuver in order to be in spaces that will fully accept me. I mean, I'm just a black girl from Oakland raised by a single dad, and so I have a very different kind of personality, and not always accepted, very well educated, you know, but not not accepted in a lot of spaces. And that's one of the things that I had to figure out for myself, is that I had to put myself in a position to be in a financial place where I could maneuver, and that's one of the benefits of financial freedom, is that it gives you options, right? It's and it's not just like you you reaching this this number. It's about what paying off a debt affords you, as far as quality of life. And because I know that it's hard for me to mask who I am. It's hard for me to code switch, and at this point, like, I just don't want to have to do that. I have to put myself in a financial position that if I'm not accepted in a certain area, I could just be like, deuces. It's the real it's the real power of fu money, because I am who I am, and you're gonna get who you get, and I'm genuinely me. And it's coming from a place of like I don't want to change or adapt. It's just that, you know, I feel like I love what I do, I serve 100% in who I am, and if I cannot be me in that capacity, then I can't fully provide, and that's as a nurse, that's as a person in the personal finance space, that's as a mom, you know, so it's in every area of my life, yeah,

Jamila Souffrant 8:10

the biggest takeaway I just heard was, it's the fact that you don't have to stay in environments where you are neglected or mistreated. You have the options to, you know, change them so you are in control. And again, that's financial that is the freedom that we all deserve. And what I hope for everyone to have is, you know, whether it's a relationship or job or just situation, friend group, whatever that is, you having the confidence in yourself and the the financial footing to be like, I'm good, like, I'm out of here. So with that, I know, like, you've talked about this on the podcast before, but I just love to do, like, just a quick, quick backstory. Because one of the things what I love, I always love your podcast titles, because it's always been, like, salacious, like, the Episode 16 was how single mom Nasima went from broke to paying off $300 of debt, and then the other one was paying off $1 million of debt with the debt Slayer Nasima. So, you know, I think paying off debt was a big part of the beginning of your journey, and I would love to hear if you can, I know it's a lot to kind of put in a short time, but like, click us back there with the beginning of your story, and then we'll hop into some new updates.

Naseema McElroy 9:21

Yeah, so debt, paying off debt became a big part of my journey back when my daughter was one years old and I was just like, trying to figure out finances, period. Like I was always good at making money, but I knew that I wasn't at a point where I was wealthy. And so kind of I just like, sat on a journey to learn and then realized, well, you have a lot of debt and kind of, like, hopped on the train of, like, the debt freedom and the debt free people, and did all that kind of stuff. And, like, really saw momentum and got, like, really heavy into that space. Yeah, so my journey was really. About paying off debt, but along the way, it was about gaining financial knowledge that I felt like I was gate kept right. And so I started my platform, literally just to share my journey of everything that I learned, because I felt like if everybody saw this coming from somebody that looked like me, if I could do it, they can do it one, so E 2020. Is how I was raised, and so just kind of giving back. And so debt snowballed, zero based, budgeted my way out of when I first talked to you, it was like $300,000 in debt. And then eventually I paid off all of my debt. At the end of my journey, I had about $50,000 left. That's after going through a divorce, having to pay a divorce settlement, a huge settlement, to the IRS because of my divorce, that left me with that chunk. Eventually sold my house, then that caused me to be debt free, and also had paid off over a million dollars in debt. So that's the very condensed version of the million dollar debt payoff journey. But what I want to highlight is that along that way, Jamila, listening to your high cast and just being friends with you in general, is what shifted my mindset from that just focusing on debt payoff to financial freedom like you are, legitimately the person that introduced me to the financial freedom movement like I did not know existed. I was like, What do you mean? Like you retire early, like you don't have to work your whole life. Like, I was like, I was that girl that was, like, on that path. You took the AP honors classes, you get into the top college, you go to college, go to grad school, get that job, work at that job for 30 years, 40 years, and then you retire, and you climb that corporate ladder, and that's where I was at. And I was just like, wait a minute, so retirement, isn't it? Age? Like, it's a number. Like, what is this? Okay, Jamila, like, Tell me more. And just really started digging in. Started, you know, of course, followed your podcast, but followed all the people that you had as guests in my world like has never been the same since. So I credit you for exposing me to, you know, financial independence, and giving me the opportunity to be to be able to maneuver like I have, you know, through my life and career. So appreciate you girl. Yeah,

Jamila Souffrant 12:14

you know, good word. And as you talk, I'm like, you know, I need to definitely do some more, more recent episodes. I know, you know, specifically talking about financial independence. You know, I try. I definitely talk about, like, a buffet of things on the podcast, and have different people on but whenever I talk to someone who says, Oh, you were the first person I heard that from, I'm like, I need to do some more specific financial independence episodes, because there's someone new listening, and they're probably like, Oh, this is just like every other personal finance podcast. Personal Finance Podcast. I'm like, it's not so I need to get into more of some of those specific topics again. So thank you for that reminder with your story. I think you know what was always because you've always worked. So, you know, I think with me, like I had my corporate job, but you know, my goal was financial independence, and then I started journey to launch, and then I was able to quit my corporate job and just kind of rely just kind of rely on this as my vehicle while I'm on the path to financial independence. So we're not completely financially independent, but this is part of, like, our income source, my business, that helps us get there. And I feel like, with you, you know, I'm always with the people who like, have platforms, but then also still have jobs that they work a lot. I'm like, how did you, how do you still do it? Because I know when I was doing it years ago, 2017 2018 it was so hard, and you have kids. So for you, what does that decision look like, to still, you know, be a nurse, to still do your business on the side, and to put so much time into both and to be a mom, how do you balance all that? What? Why not quit one? Does one make you more money? Does one is one more stable? Like, what's your decision process behind that? So

Naseema McElroy 13:52

let me just say I love being a nurse. I legitimately love being a nurse, and I'm fortunate enough to make really good money being a nurse. Like I am one of the top paid nurses in the world. Like, if you look at my income, and I share my income openly, and so nursing is really, really easy, running a business and doing all this. Like, people think I'm this influencer. I'm like, I'm not that part is really, really hard to me. And it's that reluctance, like it's that is that reluctance to give up, like, this sure thing that I actually really, really love, like a lot of people are running from jobs that are, you know, toxic or whatever. I mean, sure there, I've had really bad jobs, but as a nurse, of being like a labor and delivery nurse. I'm very satisfied. And if I'm not happy at what organization, I can leave and go to another one and find a better fit. And that's the luxury of my job. But in in all, in all, I still really love being a bedside nurse. Even you'll hear nurses saying, like, I'm putting the bedside, like, that's the whole thing. It's like going into entrepreneurship and all this kind of thing there. Nursing is easy. Running a business is incredibly hard, to me, is very time consuming, and I feel like I can make so much more money as a nurse and be able to turn that into, you know, financial freedom for my family, versus, like a business, which I know, like the income generating ability is not capped where my nursing salary is, however, to get to that place and being able to, like, balance, again, I have three kids, has not been something I've been able to do in my business, but something I've been able to excel at in my job, where I've been able to, you know, I think I've crossed over. I haven't really announced it publicly, like, put into the millionaire status, like, just from basically my nine to five, I do have some little, some income from my business, but nothing in compared to how much I make from my job and so, and I like that, that I can say I'm a nine to five millionaire, you know, again, like business has its own, like, You know, things, and I feel like I can go to work and I can cut that off, but as when I work in my business, it's, like, all day long, I'm thinking about it. And so I like the ability to have something where I can just shut it off. And so I'm sure I can do so much more with my business. I just don't have the capacity right now. Maybe when my kids get a lot older, but working to my full potential and earning really a salary right now is just what works.

Jamila Souffrant 16:27

So I just have to ask, then, why do the business like, why pursue the business side of things? If your income is so great, like, you could be sleeping right now. You could be coasting, like, while you're off, instead of, like, putting into social media or doing other stuff. So I'm wondering that decision, and I'm not saying you're Hey, it's your life. You're not wrong. But wouldn't your life be a little bit easier? Like, is it worth the extra effort for what you're doing? If

Naseema McElroy 16:51

I hadn't started my business, like, I would be, like, so much more rich. Like, I could retire. Like, honestly, I put a lot of energy and time into this, but honestly, I do it because I still love it. I feel like people need to hear from voices like me. People need to hear from voices like you and like I committed. This is my passion project, and also starting this business and doing what I do has amplified my life on so many different levels that I could have never imagined like I would have never met you, Jamila, I've never I would have never been exposed to the people and the experience and the opportunities that have come my way. Hadn't I started this business? So it's sometimes. It's not about the monetary gains that something gives you, but the quality of my life has changed dramatically just because I just sat down and started to share my story. And I don't regret that, and I still love having my podcast, because honestly, like my podcast is where I, like, pick from people, and I'm just like, oh, I need to learn this. Like, can you talk to me a little bit more about that? So I use that as you know, my platform where I learn my social media is my creative outlet. Like, you know, I don't call myself very creative. I don't think I'm very creative, but I like to have fun. And, you know, I have fun on my Instagram and my social media. So, you know, it's an outlet, and it served its purpose. So like I said, like, I do it as a passion project, best believe I am. Like, should I keep on doing this? This is a conversation that I have every day, because, yes, literally, let me just tell you. Jamila, I worked eight hours last night. I delivered a patient unblocked, who I had to sit there in the room on with her, and I held her monitor like it was like vigorous activity for eight hours. Got home, dropped my kids off at school, rest in an hour, got on this podcast, maybe I might rest an hour afterwards. Now I have to take my my middle daughter, to plastic surgery because she got a burn. So do that, come home, fight through traffic, and then go back to work for another 12 hours? So this is what my life looks like, but I'm so dedicated to what I do, and I love it so much. Like, you don't know how excited I was to be able to talk to you today, like just having being able to have these conversations lights up my life. And so yes, I could just give up a business, and I would be, probably be, I have a lot more time in my day, but I feel like it would be a big hole missing out of my life.

Jamila Souffrant 19:32

So right now, for you, the benefit is a lot more than whatever it takes. For me, it's giving you a lot more from whatever it takes. So I mean, I love that for you, you know, I would just say, though, just hearing your schedule, just maybe tired. So if you do like you feel free, though, take some time off. If you need, okay, to give yourself some rest. Okay, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Now I want to go into your income and nursing, just because every time I meet someone who happens to work in the medical field, and it's a nurse. And they're talking about money. I'm like, Oh, you gotta check out my girl, Nasima, because she's a nurse and she talks about this. I'll put all this in the show notes. But can you share your podcast name so they

Naseema McElroy 20:08

could check it out? Yeah, it's the financially intentional podcast.

Jamila Souffrant 20:12

And before that, it was like, nurses on fire. What was it? Before it was nurses on fire? Yep, nurses on fire. I still think this can benefit any profession, but I want to kind of get into the juicy details of nursing. So now I can really say, listen to this episode when I talk to nurse, like, if you have questions, but tell me, I know there's levels to nursing. I know one you got to go through schooling. Sometimes people get a lot of debt, and there's different ways to do that. But I want to talk about, like, the levels to becoming a nurse, and not the income potential. So your labor and delivery but not everyone's a labor and delivery nurse. Is that the nursing position that makes the most money? Or can you break that down for me? No, it's

Naseema McElroy 20:50

not even that. What it is is that I'm a nurse in the San Francisco Bay Area period. Right? The San Francisco Bay area, we have some of the best labor unions, and so we have some of the best labor contracts in the world. There are no other nurses like in the world that get paid as much as us, and that's just because of First of all, we base our salaries off of cost of living. Sarasco Bay Area is one of the highest cost of living, but so is New York. But the labor unions there aren't as strong, right? And so let me just tell you. So I am a highly educated nurse like I don't have to have the degrees that I have to be in this position. I have two master's degrees. I have a master's degree in healthcare administration and a master's degree in family as a family nurse practitioner, those degrees don't matter in what I do. I make the same amount of money in my job as a nurse that has that finished, just like an associate's degree program, and some of my coworkers have had, like, diploma programs, where, back in the day, they used to, just like you graduate from high school and you go straight into a training program and then go straight into a hospital. Those are called diploma programs. We get paid the same in California in our union contract is based off of level seniority, like, how, like, how many years of service determines how much you get paid labor and delivery, in itself, because it is a specialty, might get paid a little bit more than other special I mean, then, like, maybe a med surg, like a general nurse, but it's that's not what makes my Pay so high. It's just a factor of me being in the San Francisco Bay Area and working as a nurse. My degrees aside, because people are like, Oh, it's because you have master's degrees. Those those degrees don't pay me anything. And even at my current hospital, like where I work, even like, special certifications, I don't even get an incentive for that. Is literally because I've been a labor and delivery nurse for 1415, almost 15 years now.

Jamila Souffrant 22:46

So can you share more about your income? Like, because you also travel like, I know travel nurse is a thing. You're not a travel nurse, right?

Naseema McElroy 22:53

I'm a staff nurse, like, and that's what people's like, Oh, you must be a travel nurse, because travel nurses is where the money resides. That is not the case in the height of like, when travel nurses were, like, making all that big money, I was making that as a bedside nurse, full time, whatever. So my base salary is over $100 an hour, plus, if you count in, I work nights to accommodate my kids schedule. So that's extra money on top of that, sometimes an extra $30 an hour. And then the different positions I do, so if I might like a charge nurse, that would be like an extra $5 an hour. So that's like extra $35 an hour. So my salary can range anywhere from like 109 base an hour to 130 something an hour, and it just depends on what capacity I'm working in, but typically I make anywhere from like $230,000 a year to 300 and something $1,000 a year as a labor and delivery nurse with 15 years of experience.

Jamila Souffrant 23:55

And how many hours are you working a week?

Naseema McElroy 23:57

I used to only do 312, 36, hours, and just recently, because this other baby that I had, and because my daycare cost went from like $1,000 a month to like $4,000 a month, I picked up a second job. So I work three twelves and then two eights, and so I don't know the math. Always forget the math. Yeah, so 312, hour shifts and two, eight hour shifts in a week. Yeah? So 16, so 36 was 16, whatever that is, 58 hours a week. So that's, how about that work?

Jamila Souffrant 24:29

When you said you picked up another job is that, is this at another hospital or more shifts? It's at a totally different hospital? Yeah? Okay, so I am a parent of someone who wants to be a nurse? Or I'm in a position where I'm thinking of changing careers, and I'm thinking, I want to be a nurse. What is the best way to look at like being smart about how I get my degree, and then where I should look like in terms of earning potential?

Naseema McElroy 24:54

So I would say, get your nursing degree the cheapest way possible. So. The cheapest way possible is gonna be like through your community colleges and then find a hospital that will take you with your AA degree and then pay for your bachelor's degree. Work there for a couple of years, and then the world is your oyster. You could work wherever you want. You can be a travel nurse after you get your experience. And I would say a lot of people hop on the travel nurse bandwagon from other states, not people in the bay, because I looked at travel physicians, they don't like I said they don't make more than what I make. And so like, then you like. But if you don't live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and you want to maximize potential, you want to, you know, be able to travel or to go to wherever hospital pays the most in California, we have pay transparency so you can see how much nurses make at in any hospital in the state of California. But that's where you want to go. And again, this California is not created equal. Remember, remember Jamila, you was like, I'm coming to California. Which part you're going to? La girl, I live in the San Francisco Bay area, that's an eight hour drive. So like San Francisco, Bay Area is its own place. Like nurses in Southern California don't make the same so once you get your experience, the world is your oyster. So get a couple of years of experience, and then you can start traveling. I have nurses that are staff at my hospital, not travel nurses, they're staff, but they live in Canada, they live in Georgia, they live in New York, they live in Texas, and they get positions that are either full time or per diem, and then they just split their time here because of how you can do your scheduling, you can block your three days have, like 10 days off. So it's called gr arbitrage. Like you make the money here, but you take that money back to a lower cost of living area, and you know, you can really make a lot of money. And so for me, if I was advising someone who was a new nurse that I would say, get your degree as cheap as possible, get the experience, have your hospital pay for your advanced degrees, if that's what you want to do, or if some hospitals now require bachelor's degrees, or they want you to have as preferred like within a certain amount of time. Let them pay for that. And then you start moving around to where you can maximize your income and with pay transparency and all those things, with negotiation and just just how they're trying to be fair at pay, maximize that, and then you could be a nine millionaire like you don't even have to do much. You don't have to have a business. You don't have to do all these things. I say, you have to open a man's spot, and you have to have like this and X, Y and Z, just invest early, often, you'll

Jamila Souffrant 27:33

be set. All right, so what about my existing nurses who are like, All right, I've been doing this for a while, and I feel like I'm struggling. I'm not doing well. And I know some of this is going to be more than just it's going to be based on where they currently work. Um, it might take a mindset shift to be willing to move somewhere else or but, I mean, you work with other nurses, so I don't know if, I mean, and I don't know that you know their financial dealings or what's going on with them, but not everyone, just because you're a nurse, you know, like, not even if they're earning a lot, not everyone's doing financially well. So what would you say then? What are the tips for, like, those kind of people who are in that situation? What should they be aware of? Is it a lot of debt that some of these like when you talk to your nurse friends? Is it a lot of debt? Is it their situation? They can't work as much because of family obligations? And then, what are some tips for that?

Naseema McElroy 28:18

A lot of times, it's simply just lifestyle inflation, Jamila and they just don't know, like how to invest. It's those two things together. So it's not like debt from school, like when I graduated, and like my part of my debt payoff journey was the $200,000 in debt I had. And like I said, I'm highly educated. That's beyond the point. That's not even part of like me obtaining my nursing degree, right? But a lot of people just inflate their lives because of things that they're supposed to have. They're supposed to have a nice car, they're supposed to have a nice house. They're supposed to, you know, go on these luxury vacations all the time. A lot of people, like, once again, bbls, with this travel nurse money and like, all this kind of stuff like, that's fine, right? But what a lot of people don't do is, I mean, live your life like, I like nice things. I have a nice car, I have a nice house, but what I prioritize is making sure that I invest first. I pay myself first. And like, I work with tons of nurses that make more money than me and are still struggling financially, and that's because they just haven't had that mindset shift of pay yourself first, make sure that you are investing first, before you do these things, but after you've inflated your lifestyle so high, it's harder to kind of pull back those reins and start investing. And so I just tell people to pause, take inventory on like, where you are. Are you really where you want to be? What's really important to you? Make sure you budget in those things that are really, really important to you. And you notice I said the B word, because that's really, really important. It's just like budgeting intentionally, and then start putting money away for your future. So. Off, and that's the biggest shift. Like, a lot of my coworkers were right there with me in the beginning, and they are right there with me, like, millionaire status, just because they listen, and they were just like, pause, yes, I can make this amount of money, and yes, I can do all of these things, but I'm going to switch my mindset, start investing, making sure I'm putting my money away and pay off my debt, and, you know, they've seen huge financial gains. So it's really just about that shift. I didn't know this until I was 36 and I want to give a lot of people grace, because I didn't, I didn't know this until I was 36 so I couldn't, I didn't like, readily implement this like in the beginning of my career, I had to stop. I had to be like, let me get this debt in check. Oh, now I know about financial independence. I'm about to stack all my money. I'm about to invest in I have a my 403 B, because of where I work. I have a 457 which, again, I learned this from you and your podcast. I max out my 403 B, my 457 and my Roth IRA to make sure that I am putting money away from my future self so that I can maneuver the way I want to maneuver in my career and in my life.

Jamila Souffrant 31:13

Hey, journeyers, if you are loving this podcast, then you will love my book, Your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness. I wrote this book for you. This book is for you if you want a clear and enjoyable path to having more money options and a rich life. This book is for you if you hate your commute and the fact that you need to seek approval or permission from a boss. I hated that when I worked. This book is for you. If you weren't born into wealth, you didn't marry rich or won the lottery, but you still want freedom. This book is for you. If you're at a crossroads, a major decision or event is imminent, maybe a career change, marriage, starting a family, pressures are reaching a tipping point, and the discomfort and the desire for more can no longer be ignored, and this book is for you. If you find yourself zoned out at meetings, looking out the window or daydreaming about the life you truly want. So go pick up your journey to financial freedom.com. So I can show you how to map out how to get from where you are today to where you ultimately want to be and enjoy the journey. While you're on the path, head over to your journey to financialfreedom.com. To see where you can pick the book up. It's available on Amazon, bookshop.org Barnes and Noble, your local bookstore everywhere. Go to your journey to financial freedom.com. To get the book now, so many people, I think it's like this idea, like you said, of what they should be doing, or perceived like what Rich or what wealthy looks like, and not understanding that you can still have those things later, after you take care of this first, I gotta admit something, as you were talking about the car situation, or just, you Know, that lifestyle inflation, and I've brought this up numerous times on this podcast, and, you know, in this world, right, when we talk about financial freedom, I already know that, you know, and the people that listen know that it's more than just money. It's more about, like, the flexibility that I have with choosing how many hours I work and all this stuff, right? But whenever I meet someone new, that kind of learns then what I do, and they're like, Oh, you talk about money and financial freedom and like, being like, wealthy and achieving wealth. And I think, like, oh, but like, are they expecting me to look a certain way? Are they expecting me to have a certain thing? Now I know, I know that that's not the case, right? But I feel like, for the general population, when they hear that, like, oh, you're a money expert. Are you personal finance expert, and you're talking about wealth, and they see, like, the car I drive, and it's just like, you know, whatever. But it might be just me, right? But I'm just like, I know they're like, Wait, she's talking about, so then, does she have a lot of money? Like, she doesn't look like she has a lot of money, but it's deeper than, like, what, you know, appearance wise. Like, I call it invisible wealth, like, what the wealth we're talking about? Like, people can't see, like, it's in our bank accounts. It's in our investment account. It's like, subtle. It's like being able to only work an hour a day or not work. Say, Okay, I'm not doing this today. That's it. And a lot of people can't see that. And, you know, value the other things, which can be cool and nice to have, but I think for so many people, it is that I want to, I want to look and feel wealthy externally first, before that other other stuff, because of, because of society and what we feel that is valued here,

Naseema McElroy 34:32

I get it like, I get it because I thought I had to look a certain way too, I mean, and a lot of it was because, like, I was coming of age in Los Angeles, which is very vague and superficial kind of place, right? Like, you had to drive a certain car, you had to dress a certain way, you had to have a certain handbag to kind of like fit in, or to even, like have the appearance of success. Like I get that, and I feel like there's also pressure. If you come from a social a certain background that, like, you kind of have to show up a little bit different, like, if I showed up to work like a Steve Jobs or like Zuckerberg, like, I wouldn't be taken serious. And so I think there's a little bit of that that is valid, and people wanting to feel success, like, dress and appear successful and wealthy and like, have that car, so I'm not gonna down people that that appear like that. But once you was like, once you have gotten those things, and you're like, Okay, I got that out of my system. Like, okay. Like, yeah, I used to like Gucci bags, but they was raggedy, and they tow up just like everything else, and they wouldn't fix it. So why am I spending $5,000 on this bag again, like I got that out of my system? Okay, now you really find out what you value. And again, I like nice things. I like nice cars. I have a nice car, I have a nice house, but I don't spend money anymore on things that don't necessarily bring me value and what. And what that means is that, like, I aggressively cut out of my budget those things that take up a lot of my your budget, just because you're not paying attention. What I mean is you go into Target and you're only there for some toilet paper, and then you spend, like, $500 because you're just picking up things willy nilly. Okay, you go into Costco, you're only there for one thing, and then you just pick up all of those things. Do I do that to an extent, but I have budgeted for that, right? I don't do it to the detriment of me being able to invest because I make sure that I take care of those things that are important first, and then I can splurge on those things that bring me joy, right?

Jamila Souffrant 36:48

I think what also is we're not saying explicitly too, is that we are women of a certain age. Now, I was thinking about that line that I used to hear older people say that when I was younger, and I was like, Wait, how old were those people? Because I don't want to like age myself too much like, you know, we're in our 40s, early 40s, which I still can't believe. Like, who put me in charge? Like, I don't understand, but I do feel like, you know, you said that you didn't start this until you're, like, mid 30s. You're in your 40s now, correct? Yes, all right, I'm in my early 40s, and sometimes I feel like, maybe someone younger stumbles upon us. And when I say younger, I mean 20s, early 30s, and they kind of look at maybe what you have, right? Like you have that, you know, you have the things now, you have a family. You have the things your kids, but you're able to do all that. I now, you know, family, house, all this stuff, and I'm like, but it it took me a while to get here, like, I know it looks like I have all the pieces in place. But that wasn't the case in my 20s, because I was building, I was learning, I I also, too, had a very nice car in my in my 20s, and all those things. So I just think it's important to realize the stage of life you're in, and like not to put too much pressure if you don't get it right away, all the things once at once in your 20s, or even your 30s, because some of this takes time, and you're hearing from two older women, not too old, but just that a little further along that we built up and learned lessons and did all these things to get us to this point.

Naseema McElroy 38:10

I have made all the money mistakes, okay, like, listen, marrying the wrong person, buying houses, bankruptcy, like all of the things, like people say are financially devastating. I have been through all of things, those things, and still I was able to get here. So I just want, like, people to know that if I'm able to reach this level of financial success where I still have a long way to go, but like, if I can do these things in spite of all of the stuff that I have gone through, like, just to give you a little bit of hope, like, wherever you're at, it's not too late to start. You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to have it all figured out. You just have to put one foot in front of the other, and keep on going and learn from those lessons and keep on moving. I just wanted to give you hope that it's possible for you too.

Jamila Souffrant 39:02

Yeah, what I'm seeing too, based on, just like our we were talking earlier about you able to juggle all the things you're juggling, being a mom, working like you, saying you got degrees that you probably didn't even need to get. You're like you are very ambitious, right? And that internal set point. It's so underrated in terms of why people are where they are, I would say that, you know, I'm not as ambitious as you well, you know what it is? Well, let's not compare, because I don't want people to compare. It's not comparing. It's more like, I like energy, like you would have listened. I don't know if I'd be showing up for journey to launch. If I had, like, a job I really loved, I would show up for a podcast here and there. I, like, drop a podcast, like, once a month, maybe. But you know what I'm saying? Like, I just feel like it's different. That's okay. But what I'm what I'm seeing across most of the people that have reached a level of financial stability and success is, it's not just financially, it's like this. Drive, this ambition, this confidence, this not that things are perfect, not that you don't make mistakes. It's your ongoing learner. You're not your mistakes. You continue to try. So one of the things I want people to hopefully walk away from this conversation is a lot of the external things that you want are the places you want to be. It's going to be an internal job first, it's going to be wondering, okay, what are, what are the things that I need to work on internally to help improve my mindset, if I know it's not there, or what can I, who can I place around me, or what rooms can I get into, or situations that can encourage me? Because, honestly, that's the thing. Like, you know, we've all for the most part. I know there are different advantages and disadvantages we have, but, I mean, I've met people who are disadvantaged to a point where, you know, like, they really have less, or start out with less, and then, you know, they're miles ahead in terms of money. It's not so I just, I just want to encourage you that, you know, a lot of it is external, but a lot of it is internal, and to, like, work on those internal the mindset and habits that you have to help you get to where you want to

Naseema McElroy 41:02

be. And I remember hearing that early in my journey, and I was just like, like, how do I do that? Like, how do I change my circle of influence? How do I, like, change my mindset? And one of the biggest things in in this day and age was just like changing my circle, like changing the messages that I heard right so like, my social media was just filled with people that I aspire to, and eventually, like reaching out to those people. And just like you, Jamila, like those people became my friends. Those people made it possible for me listening to podcasts wherever I would go listening to personal finance books, like, it's just not a one and done. You can't hear this stuff once and think that you're going to get it. You have to hear it over and over again until you can repeat it and then actually take action on those things. So I just want to give people hope, like, for whatever circumstance you're in, whatever is going on, like, even if you're not a natural, like, go getter, like, I've always kind of just been, like, very ambitious. Like, even if you're not, you can cultivate that. And how you do that is, again, changing your circle of influence, changing those messages that you hear. Because as Americans, we're inundated with marketing, with consumerism, with all of these messages, of things that you should do that actually put you in a financial position that can leave you in destitute, versus those messages that can put you in a financial position to build wealth. So we have to change those messages, and I try to change that for my kids, because even at Little, little, little kids, they get these marketing messages, and it's like trying to understand that and kind of reverse that, and understand that you have been inundated with these messages for years, and it's not just going to change overnight. So you have to hear these messages over and over and over and again and be able to implement them for years before you see any change. So it looks like overnight success for us, because if you look at our stories and you see the short amount of times we've been able to, you know, do the things that we've been able to do. It seems short in hindsight, but it took us years and years and years to build to where we're at.

Jamila Souffrant 43:11

Well, I'm glad you brought up the kids, because I know that's like a big part of what you talk about now, having like, you know, different. What are the kids ages? Again, your our oldest are the same age, so that's 10, yeah, 10, and then you have

Naseema McElroy 43:24

a five year old and then a one year old.

Jamila Souffrant 43:29

All girls, yep, all girls. I have 10, um, eight. Like, I'm at the point where I forget their ages now, 10, eight and six. But you, you. I love when you share on social media like how they're on path to becoming millionaires by, I think, a certain age. And so let's talk a bit about that, like how you're setting them up for success, and your advice for parents who are looking to the same for their kids. First of all,

Naseema McElroy 43:53

I set myself up first. And let me just say that like I feel like a lot of times we'll do things for our kids that we won't do for ourselves, but our kids have the privilege of time on their side as to where we don't. So I tell people, if they're not, at least maxing out like a Roth IRA later for those kids, okay, I got to the point again I agree when I was maxing out all of my accounts that I was just like, Alright, let me focus on these little kids, right? And it started with me doing a college savings for my oldest daughter. And I don't know if you know, you know, Hillary Hendershot, like she was one of my mentors, and she was just like, okay, like, we don't know what the college situation is going to be. So just like, make it your goal to save $100,000 for your daughter for college, and then you figure out the rest, like $100,000 is a great kick jump start. So I started with that, and then I wanted to teach my kids to invest. And so I started a brokerage account for them where I was teaching them to be owners versus consumers. And. So like my youngest daughter at the time, when I started the brokerage account, she was like, two, but she can recognize McDonald's. She can definitely recognize Tesla, like, when she started to be able to verbalize those symbols, I was like, All right, cool. We're gonna own this. So I used, initially, an app called stockpile, where it wasn't like a like the stock, it wasn't the trading the ticker symbol, it was actually the visual like they would have on their marketing so they could, they would go and pick their stocks. So I let them pick their individual stocks in that account. And so that was just like their little fun money, which I put like $20 to $100 a month in there, and then they would be able to pick their stocks. And I also use that for birthday gift money, because it was easy to send a link, like, oh, here are their wish list for stocks that they want to buy. For that I asked for stocks instead of, like, birthday gifts, because they got a whole lot of toys and clothes and all that kind of stuff they don't need anymore. So I use that account for that. And then later on, when they started being able to work in my business, they started appearing in my marketing materials. And so therefore they could say that they generated, they're generating income. I started their retirement accounts. So my kids have 529, accounts. They have their Roth IRA retirement accounts, and then they have their brokerage accounts. And so this is my way of, like, transitioning them into, like, shifting that mindset of being an owner and investor, like understanding how money works and having them play an active role in being able to learn the stuff that I didn't learn until I was in my late 30s,

Jamila Souffrant 46:31

right? So, all right. So 529 account, which is the college account, college specific college account. When you say brokerage account, it's a custodial account that they will have ownership over after a certain age, right? Yeah,

Naseema McElroy 46:44

the UTMA or UTMA depends on, like, which one you open up. But, yeah, that's a custodial brokerage account. So when they reach the age of majority, and that depends on what state you're in, it could be 18, it'd be 25 to be 21 in a certain state, like those accounts belong to them. You can't, you can't tell them what to do with those accounts. That's why that's the littlest.

Jamila Souffrant 47:07

Yeah. Well, and then you have the Roth IRA, yeah. Well, and I want to go back to that too, because I know some parents go back and forth on this. And then you have the Roth IRA, which you're able to open up for them because they're earning income in your business. And this is for anyone who's, you know, whether you have a business, and they, you know, talk to your tax and accountants and, you know, figure that out first before you, you know, listen to us because, but if they're earning income, especially if you have, like, a 14 year old, 13 year old, who actually has a job, any earned income, so it could be with the business, or it could be, if they're earning outside of another business, it could be walking the dog, that can be babysitting, right? They can have that earned income go into a retirement account that because they have so much time by this, you know, it could be, start with $50 a month grows to hundreds of 1000s and millions by the time that they're our age. Now, what would you say to the people you already mentioned that it's kind of smaller than the rest, but that custodial account. You know, I know the back and forth and the pros and cons are, well, at least with the 529 it has to be used for something school wise. I know they just made recent changes to that, where it can be transferred or switched into a Roth IRA. But there's some people that say, well, they're looking for college. The Financial Aid looks at their assets and that maybe go against them, so they won't get financial aid. But how are you looking at that when you're thinking about building wealth for them? Like, is there anything that gives you pause, or you're like, Well, no, I'm not looking at it like that, because I expect them to be here and not need that. The whole

Naseema McElroy 48:33

thing is that I'd rather be prepared than not. I don't want to set my kids up to start at zero, and so that's my goal, like, overall, right? I just want to be prepared. And those accounts have, like, different jobs, right? So I understand, like the 529 and the, you know, the money counting against them and all that kind of stuff. But best believe, like that 529 I actually I had there in separate accounts, but I'm actually going to combine them into one big family, 529, where all the money goes in for all of them. Because what happens is you can change the beneficiary at any time. So I can change the beneficiary say, say, My daughter doesn't want to go to college, okay, my oldest daughter doesn't want to go to college. I can change the beneficiary now over to my second daughter and her sister, and just be like, Okay, this is, this is your money for now or and then I can change it to my to my youngest daughter, whatever I look at that as, like a family bank, like that money is going to be there and it's going to grow, and I'm going to continue to contribute to it as an educational fund. $30,000 of that can roll into a Roth IRA after it's been in the account, or, I can't remember the years 1315, something years, which it will be for all of my kids, right? That's like, one way I look at that. But best believe my daughter will be when she's in Junior. Junior year, she'll be applying for scholarships. She'll if she wants to go to college, she'll be applying for grants, like I. That's not the end all be all for college funding. Like, you know, I, I'm good friends with Chris Corinthian, like, he has a strategy to graduate from college wealthy, right? By using grants and loans and investing those and all that kind of stuff. He has a framework so we're tapped into that. That's one bucket, right? The other bucket is, like, I want to be able to for their brokerage account, use that money for their first car, for their house, and so all of those things have a job, but also there's flexibility in it so that we can use it as we need it as they change, as laws change, you know? And so I just rather be more prepared than to sit there and like, be like, nitpick. Like, Oh, well, they get to have their money at this age, whatever, whatever, whatever, focus on financial literacy early, and then be able to have money available for them. So they so we can stop, like, starting over from zero, and hopefully they can, like, instill those lessons and be able to provide the same things for their kids, which

Jamila Souffrant 50:59

is why I think it's just like, it's better just to have like, good problems than like you can't like you have you have options to solve those problems, even if you're confused at that point, still, versus like you have no options, right? So I know that sometimes we get tripped up on what's the best decision, pros and cons. I don't know. Even with investing like, oh, I don't know. Should I put it in the No, 401, K, I should have put in a Roth IRA. Put it in something something, put it in something that you know, that, like, not you know you're not, like, betting like, egregiously and recklessly, in something that's not proven. But you know, if it's a question between, should I up my 401 K percentage and contributions by $100 or 5% or 10% versus Should I put $100 more in my Roth, like, just make a decision, because that back and forth, like, you will spend a year and still not have figured out what to do. So it's better to start, because you can't lose in either one, just like the kids account. And then as you go, as least that money is growing over time, and you can make if you want to change your strategy, because you know more, you can do that. But I've seen so many people, including myself, who don't make a decision because they're like, oh, wait, pro con, I don't know. And then you don't do anything, right? And then it's just like, again, I'm not saying jump into and do something reckless, but if both decisions are both sound, and you're just kind of like trying to optimize for, you know, you're trying to be like a mastermind and optimize for future scenarios, you have no idea what's going to happen. Make a decision and go for it. Yeah, yeah. Let's do it. Okay? Nasima, oh my gosh. I love catching up with you. We have to do this again, because there's always something brewing that you're working on or I'm working on. So I want you to tell people where they can find out more about your work, your published author, yourself, your amazing podcast, and your social media where people can, like, follow up with you

Naseema McElroy 52:48

Sure. So financially intentional podcast, I have a book out smart money. You can find it out Amazon. Hang out with me on Instagram. I'm usually on Instagram having fun, like, doing some interesting content over there, but that's where you can I usually hang out so you can DM me. I'm very responsive, but yeah, I just hope that you can join me on my journey. Just this is a continuous journey. Things are evolving like and we have receipts like, scroll through back through, because things have changed and things have evolved for all of us, and that's why I love doing these catch ups, because this is not an episode like the episode before, because I'm not so focused on debt like I'm real focused on making sure my kids are set up and, you know, still loving my my job as a nurse. But, you know, I think that looking at our journey can teach you a lot. So like, go back through Jamila Instagram, go back through my Instagram, literally, go into a podcasting app and type in the Seema McElroy, go back and listen to old episodes. Go back and type in Jamila souffrant. I mean, you've been on hundreds of podcasts, just like me, and just kind of like, see where our growth is, because I think it'll provide you with a little bit of inspiration to know that you don't have to do things perfectly, things evolve, things change. But as long as you stay on that path, and it's not lateral, because you do mess up, you do go back, you do have those years where things aren't so great, but just to be able to see that, and to be able to resonate, and, you know, especially, to see it from people that look and sound like you, I think is like, really important. So again, I'm super honored to be here, super honored to be able to have a platform to share my story and be authentically who I am, like I like you mentioned. But yeah, I'm grateful. I'm grateful. Well, I'm

Jamila Souffrant 54:37

so glad for this conversation. Hope that it blesses someone and inspires a journey or on their own path. So thanks again. Nasima,

Naseema McElroy 54:45

thank you, Jamila.

Jamila Souffrant 54:48

Don't forget you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this and you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you. On your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch.com/jumpstart

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