Episode 390: Breaking the Burnout Cycle & Finding Balance in Work and Life w/ Amina AlTai

Amina AlTai 0:00

We're seeing this moment of microhabits, and I think the same thing can happen around joy. We can microdose joy. And so instead of waiting until you can, like, go by the beach house or, you know, leave the day job and start your own business, what are the small ways that we can bring in joy every single day? T minus

Jamila Souffrant 0:19

10 seconds, welcome to the journey. To launch podcast with your host Jamila souffrant as a money expert who walks her talk she helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom. 543212, 321,

if you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode in the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned, and so much more also, whether you are an OG journeyer or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes to listen to, stages to go through to reach financial freedom resources and so much more. You can go to journey to launch.com/jumpstart to get your guide right now. Hey, hey, hey, journeyers, welcome to the journey to launch Podcast. I'm really excited to have today's guest Amana Altai. She is a holistic business and career coach, proud immigrant and chronic illness advocate, a leading coach to notable leaders, executives and founders. Amina's mastery is connecting us to our brilliance, teaching us to live and lead from each day overworked and unknowingly making herself physically sick, Amina received a call from her doctor and was told she was dazed away from multiple organ failure, and in hopes of healing her own life, she sought out training and coaching nutrition movement and mindfulness, and that is how she started her goal in teaching others how to balance a thriving career, but making sure we take care of our bodies and mind. I'm so excited to have Amina on the podcast today. Welcome.

Amina AlTai 2:14

Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here. Yeah. So

Jamila Souffrant 2:18

Amina, I had to read that part when I saw your bio. I was like, I wanted to make sure I said that in the intro, because I wanted to kind of start there, because this whole idea of the external wealth that a lot of my listeners and journeyers want to achieve, I really believe comes from within. And you were faced where you your internal health was something that was compromised. So can you take me back to kind of that point in your life, and how it got to there, and what you started to do to get better?

Amina AlTai 2:47

Yeah, I love this question, and I also love that your teachings are so inside out, because now, after having gone through that experience, I believe that too, but it took me this big sort of hit from the universe to get there. I wish I had your book back then on your podcast. So I started my career in marketing and brand management. I grew up in an immigrant household where I was taught to work really hard. You know, put your head down, get the good grades, get the good job, get all the shiny objects, and then you will feel successful, then your life will matter, then you will have achieved. And none of that worked for me. I started this career in marketing and brand management, and I was working 7080, hour weeks, like a lot of people do, and I was boundaryless and deeply codependent and all the things and not taking care of myself, trying to get all of these external accolades in the salary and everything. And then I burned out, and I got that call from my doctor where she said I was days away from multiple organ failure, and I had to choose another way. I had this very sobering look at my life where I had to say, Do I keep going the way that I'm going, which is clearly killing me, or do I do something different? And so I say at that point, I went on my Eat, Pray, Love, year, and I, you know, I went to school to study, coaching, nutrition, mindfulness, and just to kind of feel better in my own life, and then just so much more was available to me. When I actually felt good, I thought, Oh, this is what I have to do. This is what I have to teach.

Jamila Souffrant 4:08

Okay, let's go back a bit, because I can imagine a lot of listeners may be where you are right now. They're working it's a lot of stress. They have dreams of reaching, you know, a place where they have financial freedom and independence, but it does seem so far away. And so you kind of described this life where you had the external accolades and you weren't healthy. How did you know to go to the doctor to check for your organ failure? So for example, someone is feeling overworked. How do we know it's just, I need to take a nap and take a day off, versus I need to go to the doctor and get things seriously checked out.

Amina AlTai 4:44

Yeah, and burnout is such a big problem right now, it's between 70 and 80% of people are experiencing burnout in this moment. So so many of us are rumbling with these feelings of exhaustion. And then we have to ask ourselves, is this exhaustion? Is this burnout, or am I actually unwell? So. One of the first things that I would say is really listen to yourself. Listen to your body. We have so much inner wisdom that we are taught to discount in this world. And if you internally feel like something is wrong, please go to the doctor. And even if the doctor tells you nothing is wrong, but you really feel like something is advocate for yourself, because I actually have to go to seven different doctors before one would take me seriously. And for historically excluded people, for people of color, that tends to be the case. There's a lot of medical gaslighting that takes place. So if you really feel like something is wrong, your intuition is telling you, and it's very loud, please don't stop until you

Jamila Souffrant 5:34

get answers. So when you found out that you were having this, you know, health crisis, it sounds like you took some time off from your traditional work to do something else, or we do that on the side.

Amina AlTai 5:46

No, I did not take off any time, actually. So I went to coaching, and they taught me about boundaries, and they taught me about my traits and where I was, like, really over giving and not giving to myself. And so one of the best things that I did is I learned how to kind of make the best of the situation in place. And so I learned to set boundaries. I learned to switch off at six o'clock, which is perfectly reasonable. I learned to let other people do things and to do things for me. And then I decided to pursue all of these teachings as I was doing that. And eventually, after doing those things, I decided that that wasn't the career for me anymore, and it took me a couple of years right when we kind of tell the story backwards, it sounds so tidy and so linear, and it wasn't. It was messy and it was a couple of years, but I just kept taking the next right action and going towards what felt healthy, alive and warm for me,

Jamila Souffrant 6:36

I think it's really important to talk a bit about doing that extra or additional work to find your place or to find something you love in addition to working, because so many people have to to walk those two paths together at the same time. So while it would be like great if everyone could just quit the job they hate, and, you know, take that, Eat, Pray, Love year or two years, and take time off and discover what they love. For a lot of people, that's just not practical. You still have to work pay bills. And I want to go back to you, you saying, like, how you did that? Because I think for I know, for me, what I'm thinking about it, which I actually did when I was working full time, I did start journey to launch on the side. And so you have to kind of grow your capacity. There's a bit more that you're balancing, but you still have to be smart and conscious of kind of pulling back in certain areas, but not enough to where you will get fired from your job, but enough to where you can now do something else. So talk about, like, the boundaries where or things that you did like exactly if you can share just so if people are like, Okay, I want to pursue this thing, but I can't quit my job. I don't have enough money saved. How do I do that at the same time? I love the

Amina AlTai 7:44

quote from Prentice Hemphill that says boundaries are the distance at which I can love you and me simultaneously. And I think in a work context, boundaries are the distance at which I can honor you and me simultaneously. And so much of the time we're not honoring both parties, we're honoring them, or we're honoring ourselves. But what does it look like to mutually honor? And I think that was one of the biggest lessons that I got, because I was way over giving. And here's the thing people love. When you way over give, and when you set the boundary and you dial back the giving, people don't like it, and they're going to have a response, and they're going to have a reaction. And it's on us to just work with that, right? It is what it is the reaction they have. We can't control it. All we can do is be in integrity. So at that same time, I decided, okay, what's integrity for me? Integrity for me means that, like, I'm doing all the work that I'm supposed to, I don't drop a ball for a client, I don't miss a deadline. But integrity also means that I leave at six o'clock. Integrity also means that I don't check emails on the weekend, because those are the times that I'm now giving back to me, and it's going to be uncomfortable, because people aren't going to like when you set the boundary, because they really benefited from you not having it in the first place. But we owe it to ourselves, because what's on the other side is so much bigger, and it can be our highest yield contribution. So if we're laboring in spaces that we're not really designed for that are making us sick. The work that we do there is probably so so. But if we harness our energy and service of our gifts, and we go to the places that we're really designed to contribute in, we can have the highest yield contribution. So that's great for everybody. So it

Jamila Souffrant 9:15

sounds like you started to work on yourself and then use those tools now and said, This is something I actually love doing. I think it could help other people. So how does one kind of differentiate between something that, okay, I'm doing this for me to become healthy or to be happy, versus, wait a second, could this also be the second career path or the next thing I do in life? Yeah.

Amina AlTai 9:36

So I think it's important to say that we don't have to monetize everything that we love, because I think capitalism is like, Oh, if we're good at something and we love it, we should monetize off of it. So I think it's important to say something can be a hobby, something can just be a passion. But for me, I really realized that it felt very emotional and visceral for me, where I realized that, like, first of all, it was so painful to go through what I went through, and this was back to. 1215, years ago, where there weren't a lot of resources about well being. I mean, the wellness industry was like, really in its early days, and so there weren't a lot of resources. There weren't big conversations about workplace burnout. So I felt very on my own, and it was such a big learning curve. And I thought, and I felt very emotional about if I could mitigate the learning curve for other people, that will be the most beautiful contribution that I could make. I was convinced of that. And so at first I thought, the way that I will do this is I will create a corporate wellness company, as I already worked in the wellness space. And I thought, cool, I'll just, like, take this into companies, and I'll just teach them, you know, to breathe and to eat well, and self care and community care and all the things. But that actually wasn't the thing I did that for a little bit, and it was kind of like successful on paper, but it still felt like a piece of me was missing. And so at that point, I designed my work, which touches on, kind of business and career mindset, well being, and put all the pieces together and became a coach. But it was kind of a twisty journey of, like, I think this is it. Let me try it. Oh, that's not it. It's just a little bit over here. Let me try this. It was kind of very trial and error, but there was something inside of me that really felt like if I don't do this thing and I leave the planet, I will have missed the calling. Talking

Jamila Souffrant 11:10

about the calling, I think there's a fine line or there, just for some people, they cannot get the two to match the calling versus making enough money to sustain themselves and to get further ahead, so not just even to survive, but they, you know, to thrive as we all should. How does one if they have a calling, if they find that, you know, you know, I want to monetize this gift I have, or I'm in this career, and you know, I'm going to be working here, so I might as well make the best of it. How do they figure out how to get an or have enough money to help support them? If sometimes that seems incongruent, depending on what space they're in.

Amina AlTai 11:47

Yeah, I love this question. I'm going to answer it kind of like in a twisty way. So I believe, like we all have zones of genius. We all have something that we came to the planet to contribute. And Gay Hendricks talks a lot about this in his book, The Big Leap, and it can be like mapping the human genome, or can maybe making the best soup, like, literally, there's no right or wrong way to genius. We all have a form of it. It looks different for all of us. And some of us feel like we want to get on the court with that genius in our work, and that's kind of answering the call. But I think there's so much pressure around that, and we idealize it. And then some people, when they can't find it, it becomes really toxic. So I think it's important to say that it doesn't have to be one way or the other. It's totally fine to have a good enough job where you like what you're doing well enough you're not burned out, you're making good money. It's allowing you to save for the future. Totally great to have that and then use your gifts as your hobbies, or use your gifts for your family or for your community, and then it's also perfectly wonderful to use your gifts in your work as well. There's no right or wrong way, and I think it's important to differentiate that, because I think so much of the time we put all this pressure on ourselves that the dream means that I have to be on the court with my genius and making money from it, and it doesn't work for all of us that way. So I just want to take some of the shame and toxicity out of that conversation. And then the second part of your question was, how do we make enough money? Well,

Jamila Souffrant 13:07

yes, so how do you earn more if you are in your joint genius or if you maybe are just settling, and is it okay to settle in a career for the money? So

Amina AlTai 13:17

I have this five part framework that I think helps us find equanimity and kind of evenness in our careers. So I say that the great work of our lives sits at the intersection of our gifts, what we value, what brings us joy, what we need and what we want to impact. So our gifts are our zone of genius, and some of us are on the court with them at work, and some of us not. It's very rare that someone's not like even 1% on the court with their zone of genius. It's just kind of the percentage. Then there's what brings us joy, right? So I believe that we spend more of our heartbeats at work than we do anywhere else. It should feel a little bit joyful. Then there's impact. We want to be working in these spaces where we're having the impact on the community or our family or the greater good in the way that we want to we should be values aligned. I think so much of the burnout people are experiencing is because they're laboring in spaces that they're not values aligned with. And then the last piece is needs, and arguably the most important piece, right? So salary falls into the needs part of the conversation, and there are so many entrepreneurs that I have worked with over the years that are getting all of the four parts of the framework, except for needs, right? And so it's like, well, what's the point of doing this if we're actually not paying ourselves and we're not meeting our needs financially, right, then we're actually just volunteering, and that's not good for anybody. That's not economic justice. And so I think it's so important that we really honor the needs part of the framework, and it's not overlooked, because for historically excluded people, it can be, because we often discount ourselves and our rates and all the things. And if you want to work in a good enough job because it pays you an amazing salary, and hey, you're on the court with your genius 5% of the time. You're somewhat values aligned, but you feel okay with that. You feel equanimity in that that's your prerogative. So there's no right or wrong way to do our careers. And I think that, I think we really idealize the idea. That it can be perfect, and I could have the dream, and that I'm going to be 100% of the time on the court with my gifts, and it's not really true for anybody. And

Jamila Souffrant 15:07

your perspective on under earning right what I would love to hear some just your thoughts on that I talk about this in my book, Your journey to financial freedom that you know there are just systemically like reasons why, like, certain groups are starting, you know, further behind or don't make as much, and that is some external factors that take bigger than us to change from kind of our offices are where we sit and but with that, not to necessarily give up on yourself and to do what you can do to get as much as you can while providing value in whatever space you're serving. And so I do feel like a lot of people, or some people who definitely could have an expense problem where they're spending more, but a lot of people have an income problem, and we all know what kind of income is that driving force to achieving all the things that they want to achieve. So when it comes to someone who is not earning enough, whether if they can be an entrepreneur and they're not charging enough, you know, maybe it's not necessarily about clients, but not charging enough, or not putting themselves out there and or working in a corporate setting, and they're not negotiating for what they deserve. What are some tips or some ideas for people who are under earning? How can they recognize their under earning versus something else.

Amina AlTai 16:20

So for historically excluded people, there is a wage gap, right? We see there's so much data on this. So women of color earn less than white women, white women earn less than CIS het white men. And at the end of our lives, that can be the tune of millions of dollars, that can be the difference between being able to withstand a medical crisis and not. I was reading recently that women are much more likely to be unhoused in their later years than men, and I think so much of that has to do with the wage gap. And so if you are feeling like like, I'm a Henry, I'm a high earner, I'm not yet rich, I kind of feel like there's something happening here, whether it's I'm overspending or I'm under earning, I would ask inside of your organization for a pay equity audit, because so many organizations have pledges to be more equitable these days, and so let's put the money where the mouth is. Let's see where people's salary bands really are, and then through that data, we can start to advocate for ourselves. I think so much of the time, it's also a mindset issue, right? And the mindset issue is perpetuated by the systemic oppression. Because if the world tells us, hey, as a person in this body and with this identity, you're deserving of less, we will internalize that, and we'll think, Okay, well, then I deserve less in this organization. Or one of the things that I see with a lot of my clients, because a lot of my clients are women of color, is that maybe they will get the salary bump, or they'll, you know, there'll be equity in their salary, but they'll feel like they have to overwork and outwork everybody else to be worthy of that. So notice the patterns. Notice the stories that you tell yourself around salary, around asking for more. Maybe you could take out your journal, not now, but later, and ask yourself, Do I feel deserving of more money? Do I feel deserving of of pay equity, and what are the stories that you're telling yourself about not deserving? Or if you get that money, do you feel like you have to work more because there's so much in there, and our mindsets are also driven by our nervous systems. So our nervous systems have to feel in a particular place to be able to ask for the pay equity audit, to be able to ask for the raise, to be able to negotiate, to ask our peers what they're making, so we could go back with data. So there's a lot of work that we can do on our side, but a lot needs to shift systemically as well. Of course,

Jamila Souffrant 18:29

I just love the pay equity audit you just brought up, and then I love that you actually just said that even before you can ask for that, because there are tools that we know of that we all know of, though, that we have. And I always say it's not necessarily, it's like, sometimes you don't know of something, like someone may not know there's a pay equity audit that they can ask for. And we'll talk a bit about what that is actually and there are some tools that people know of, like, Okay, I know a budget would be a good thing to do, or I have these things I know I should do. It's not necessarily I don't know what I should do is why I'm not doing it. It's why, why am I not raising my hand? Or why am I, if I know this is a tool I can use, why am I not executing it? And so first, I would love for you to explain kind of what that pay equity audit is, so that if someone is listening and saying, Oh, wait, what is that? Let me maybe I can go ask about that and how they should approach their employer for that, and then if we can move on to kind of the blocks that stop us from speaking up and out and how we can get over that,

Amina AlTai 19:28

yes, really powerful. So a pay equity audit is an audit of salaries in our organization. So you can go to HR and you could if you feel like you are being underpaid, or something has happened that feels unjust around salary and compensation. You can go to HR and you can request what is called a pay equity audit, and that is when they look at everybody's salary within your title or within your space and domain inside the organization, and they make sure that they are equitable, that somebody, because of a particular identity, isn't being overpaid or under. Paid, and then, in essence, they will even the playing field. That is the hope. And so you can make a request if you feel like something unjust is happening on that end, and hopefully they will make you whole. And then the next question was,

Jamila Souffrant 20:12

yeah, so if we know that now, I know you know you can hear that and like, oh, that sounds good, but I don't know that I'm going to have the confidence or guts to actually ask that question, because I don't want to seem like a problem. Or, you know, there's still some mindset or emotional blocks behind executing on things like this. Yeah,

Amina AlTai 20:29

and there's stuff that we can do on our side, right, on the mindset and nervous system side. But I also want to name that a lot of organizations don't feel psychologically safe. And so there's all these different levels of there's four different levels of psychological safety. And so what we're talking about is challenger safety. So challenging the organization on our salary and what we're being paid, and if it's equitable, and a lot of places don't have enough psychological safety for us to say, hey, I want to challenge the status quo. I want to challenge this way of thinking. And so we just won't do it. And so it's really important that there is psychological safety in our spaces. And if you don't have it in the entirety of the company or in the entirety of your team, perhaps there's somebody like a manager or even a peer that you can go to. And can you build safety through allyship? So could you get a group of you together? There's safety in numbers? Okay, now that there's a couple of us that are also thinking about this in the same way, it feels a bit safer. So if we don't have that organizational safety, can we create safety through allyship and then on our side of the street, I think it's really important that we go into those conversations with a parasympathetic nervous system, which means rest and digest nervous system, and with our mindset cleaned up. Because a lot of the times we'll go into those conversations and we're like, ready to light the match and burn down the building because we feel the injustice. But when we go into a conversation like that, it's not very pragmatic. We're practical and we're on the defensive. So then the other person comes in on the defensive. So I invite people to journal before they go into a conversation like that. Also sit down and practice with a friend. Practice actually having the words come out of your mouth. Because if they're coming out of your mouth for the first time in the room with HR or your manager, it's going to be so awkward and uncomfortable we're going to stumble. So get that out of the way with somebody that already feels safe. And nervous system, I just talked a little bit about this. So our nervous system is kind of scanning our environment all the time, looking for threats, and so it feels like a threat to go into our workplace and say to our manager, say to our HR like, Hey, you're underpaying me, and I want you to evaluate this, right? So we need to do some work on our end before we go into that conversation. And that can be done through mindfulness. It can be done through somatic practices. There's a really wonderful teacher of mine. Her name is Amy bonaducci Gardner, and she teaches people how to map, which is a tool for grounding our nervous systems. I

Jamila Souffrant 22:48

love all that. And so let's talk about like day to day wellness. And when I talk about achieving financial dreams and financial independence, some of those dreams can take a while to get to, depending on your starting point. And you know, I remember having the long commute and wanting to have more time and energy freedom, wanting to be able to quit, but realizing that even if I pushed the date up, it would still take a few years for that to happen. And so, but I had to find happiness then from where I was, even if it wasn't in a situation that was 100% perfect, which i By the way, I don't think any situation is 100% perfect, even if you think, when you know you have all the money, you pay up all your debt, like there's still going to be something. Which is why I say, you know, take that journey within first. So for those people who their external circumstances are not ideal, how can they bring that joy and well being to their life every day without necessarily having a lot of money to do it? One

Amina AlTai 23:46

of the most important things is to like, welcome all emotions. So study after study highlights that people that are the quote, unquote, happiest are the ones that have emo diversity, which means they let themselves feel the anger, the resentment, the joy, the elation, the sadness, they let themselves feel all of it. So when you're journeying to your financial freedom, let yourself feel all the things, feel annoyed that you're not there, yet feel happy and grateful for what you do have now. But let yourself experience all of the things, because again, it kind of leads more to that happiness, to that contentment. And then there are, I think micro habits are kind of having a moment, and I think that they're so important, right? Whether it's micro habits of like working out, just doing like, you know, five sit ups in between clients, or taking a walk around the house as I go to get a glass of water, or doing the mindfulness moment as I walk to the bathroom, we're seeing this moment of micro habits. And I think the same thing can happen around joy. We can micro dose joy. And so instead of waiting until you can, like, go by the beach house or, you know, leave the day job and start your own business, what are the small ways that we can bring in joy every single day, and literally asking yourself that question in your journal or first thing in the morning of, what can I do to bring joy to my experience today? So give an example. So I have been writing my book for the last two years. I'm almost done. And there was a there was a period where I was writing the section on joy, and I did not feel joyful at all. I was like, Oh, I will feel happy when this book is done right. Kind of very destinational thinking, like, we'll feel happy when the money is there, right? And I was like, no, if I want to feel happy. I can't wait until two years from now when the book is done. I need to invite that in right now. So I was like, Okay, I'm going to start my day by asking myself that same question of, What can I do to bring in joy today? I'm going to put flowers on my desk, I'm going to listen to nice music as I write, and I'm going to check in with a friend at the end of the day, and I'm going to go for a little walk. And all of those things shifted the experience because I was punishing myself into hitting a certain word count in the same way that we punish ourselves into hitting a certain dollar amount in our bank accounts. And joy is not something that we feel at the end. It is something that we get to feel every step of the way, and if we wait till the end, I mean, the experience is with joy in absentia. That's not real success, right? Success is inviting the joy in every day, even in the tough moments.

Jamila Souffrant 26:02

I love that. And you know, really to that it's the perspective, because you and someone can be going through your exact same situation, and if you have a different perspective and mindset about it, you can look at the person like, Wait, why are you so happy? Or why, you know, why are you so miserable in this situation? And I think it's important to realize the power of who you are inside and how you view the world and everything around you.

Amina AlTai 26:27

Yes, exactly. And if we decide that not having enough money today is a problem, we're going to make it a problem, and it's going to become an even bigger problem. And if we decide that, okay, maybe I don't have as much money as I want today, but I'm going to feel joy, and I'm going to take action towards having more money tomorrow, it's going to be a markedly different experience.

Jamila Souffrant 26:47

Hi Jamila here, host of this podcast and author of the book, your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness. Just a few years ago, I was in a job I didn't like, with a long commute, feeling stuck. I knew there had to be a different, better way. Then I found the pathway to financial freedom and financial independence. Today, I have more money options and freedom than I ever thought was possible. And in my book, Your journey to financial freedom, I'll show you how you can achieve that too. You'll learn how to spend and save responsibly, all while enjoying that spicy Margarita and exercise of guacamole to determine where you are on the journey and evaluate your spending and saving goals accordingly, quit your job, retire early or reach financial independence. My Book your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness, is out now and available on Amazon, bookshop.org, Barnes and Noble and more. You can even listen to the audiobook narrated by me. Go to your journey to financialfreedom.com to get a free bonus when you order the book and see all the places to buy it once again, go to your journey to financialfreedom.com and how important is it to have sometimes, when you're in a situation, you can take it for granted, right, like you forget how blessed or how you know far you've come, or just what you've accomplished. And so how important is it to either, you know, be surrounded by people you can kind of bounce that off of who can remind you and kind of be that safe place, and then to also to step back right and take stock of the journey so far that you're on.

Amina AlTai 28:31

I think it's both and right. Like we're the average of the five people that we spend the most time with. So we want to spend time with people that are thinking positively, have that emo diversity are grateful, that are also reaching towards their dreams, because we're going to become the average of those people. And I also think it's really important for us to take inventory and have a gratitude practice. And I think the thing about the gratitude practice is recency is important, right? Sometimes I'll work with clients and they'll tell me their gratitude. Listen, it's from something like 20 years ago. We don't feel that viscerally in our bodies. That's just kind of doing the exercise to do the exercise. So think about what are you grateful for in the last 24 hours? What are you grateful for in the last week? Because that helps us really feel the feeling in our bodies versus something that we've now intellectualized.

Jamila Souffrant 29:15

You talked to in your work about the idea of doing like nothing, and how that's actually not necessarily a bad thing. And I want to kind of spend some time here, because I think we have been conditioned, especially, you know, if you come from a background, or especially from, like, an immigrant background, where you are like, you work like, there's some relaxing. It's like you work hard. You work as hard as you can, as long as you can, because our ancestors, people before us, had to work to get us to where we are. And I think a lot of us who kind of have a bit more stability and options, who can to either take time off or go slower, and maybe I'm talking for myself, maybe some other people, but it's it feels, it sometimes feels weird to. Be on a slow path, because you're so used to actually working hard and doing a lot versus, you know, I'm gonna relax.

Amina AlTai 30:08

Yeah, yeah, this is so powerful and so important. So overworking is an epidemic, right? And so connected to systemic oppression. So many historically excluded people have to overwork to make ends meet. They have to have two three jobs. Like, I remember, you know, reading about your mom's story, right? And like, I come from an immigrant family as well. Like, there are certain conditions sometimes where you have to overwork to make ends meet, and then there is a moment where we get to a place in our lives where maybe we don't have to overwork, but it's so ingrained in the lineage that we feel shame, and it feels so taboo to actually rest. But I think two things, I actually think that it is respectful to the ancestors, right? It's like they worked so hard so we could have this moment. So if we don't take it, what are we saying to them? And then also, from a nervous system perspective, resting actually allows us to think a lot more clearly. There's all this data that shows us that when we are relaxed, we actually think more creatively. We get new ideas. So it will serve your business, it will serve your career in some way. You're going to have that next million dollar idea when you allow yourself to relax. But you know, kind of going back to what I started at the point on is that, you know, there's a big rest gap, right? And so it is a privilege to be able to rest, but if we do have the opportunity, I think it's so important that we take it, because it just means that we can rise to the next level and pay homage to all the people that came before us.

Jamila Souffrant 31:28

And what happens when you feel like you've slowed down or resting and you still don't have an idea of what to do next. So there may be some people who they're on this path, whether it's a career path, educational path, and it doesn't necessarily feel right, and they could take a break. But then there's some fear that if they take that break, like, what happens if I have no clue of what I want to do? Like, how long do you give yourself two rest or pause without direction, internally about what to do next or what feels right?

Amina AlTai 31:56

Yeah, so many of us are so afraid that if we stop, we're going to fall apart. We're so terrified of rest and what's going to happen in the rest. So first I would invite you to take out your journal and, like, write down all the things that you're afraid of will happen if you rest. Really, what are you afraid of? That your life is going to fall apart. You're not going to recognize yourself. Like, let yourself get really clear on the fear story there, because oftentimes the fear is like false evidence appearing real, or a bit of a cognitive distortion. But what I would say is go towards what feels warm, because it's so rare that somebody rests. I was literally had a coaching call right before this, and somebody is like, in a they actually own 50% of the business, and they're trying to figure out what's next for them. And they're like, how do I do this? And I was like, take some space. And they're like, Well, what if I don't find it in that time? And I was like, so few people actually find it like overnight, and it's like, Oh, I've got the next dream. And I'm so clear and I know exactly what I want. Sure we see that that happens sometimes, but that's not the majority. Most of us need to go towards what feels warm, right? There will be one breadcrumb of a thing that lights you up. Go do that thing, and once you do that thing, you're going to get more information, and there's going to be another thing. So in nervous system work, we say, decide, take action, observe, respond. So decide I'm going to take off a week, and in that week, I'm going to go to the library and I'm going to read these books that light me up. And then, as a result of that, observe what happens. Oh, now I feel like I want to go take a course in this cool respond to that. And round and round and round you go, and the dream is built that way, brick by brick. It is often not this thing that gets dropped into our heads. It often is that step by step, brick by brick, by going towards what feels warm,

Jamila Souffrant 33:34

I think too, realizing that that, depending on your situation, is going to look different, because for the people with children, right, the single parents and moms and dads, but you know, moms, single moms, are even two parent household. You have kids. I was, you know, just as you were talking thinking about how that journey is, every household is going to look different and what that looks like. And so if that's not going to be a week that you can take off. It's also letting go of expectations of what you should be doing. So sometimes for me, you know, I always joke around that it feels like my husband, when he is like, maybe, I don't know, is watching the kids or doing something like he has such a more relaxed time, because he does not get his expectations on what needs to be done. He's just like, listen, they're safe, they're happy. He doesn't make things maybe as much of a thing as I do, where I'm like, Oh, you need to be doing this, this and this. And so I take kind of notes from him where it's like, relax a bit like, so the expectation of what you think things should look like, it doesn't have to be that way. Put What do you need in this moment? And if that means they have to be on their iPads or screens, or you need to buy fast food so that you don't have to cook or you don't have to worry about them, then do that. And so I think too, just realizing in your situation what you can do or what's helpful, and releasing that expectation, I think, of what you should be doing, or what other people are going to judge you for, is important 100%

Amina AlTai 34:56

I'm so glad that you brought that into the conversation, because, like you said. If you're a single parent, if you or if you're in a two parent household, and you have kids like their time is such a precious resource, and we often don't have very much of it, and it's not going to look perfect. And kind of going back to what we were talking about a little bit earlier, about the micro habits of what are the smallest things that you could do? Can you listen to a podcast on the train on the way to work? Or, you know, can you take two minutes to do a thing. Can we do it in these micro ways, and will that give us enough information to know what's next as well? And

Jamila Souffrant 35:26

finding you had you had mentioned, was it synergy? You said doing what's best for you, but also the other person. And like, even with your job, I forgot the words you had said boundaries.

Amina AlTai 35:36

So boundaries is the distance at which I honor you and me at the same time, right?

Jamila Souffrant 35:42

And I think having even these boundaries in relationships help too, like whether you know parent, child, spouse. Because I think if we're feeling you know parent, your you and your own parents, and all the relationships that we have are important because then that's where we can get more space right, and more time back to do some things that can bring us more joy. So it's just like, Okay, how can I get you know whether you know spouse or kids partner? Where can I say, All right, this is what I need right now, and we'll have to fill figure out that gap, but this is what I'm going to need to feel and do and show up in a way that makes makes this household work. Yes.

Amina AlTai 36:20

And in addition to the boundary setting, it's like stating our needs, right? So many people feel like, well, they should just know our needs. They know me well enough, but most people are not mind readers. So as clear as you can get about what you need from a time perspective, a support perspective, a clarity perspective, and telling people what your needs are, it will also make the journey that much easier.

Jamila Souffrant 36:40

Now, just as we are kind of wrapping up here, I do want to leave people with some actionable things they can do to bring wellness into their life, not just work, but definitely, since work takes up most of people's time, like what that looks like, what they can start doing today, right now listening to this to bring that wellness and joy back into their life.

Amina AlTai 37:04

Yeah, one of the first things I would say is make a list of tolerations. So we are all tolerating things in our lives that we need not be tolerating at home and at work and in all the places. So again, take out your journal. So that's kind of been the theme of this conversation, journal, journal, journal, but take out your journal, and I want you to write down a really exhaustive list of what you're tolerating in your life that you need not be tolerating. So maybe you're tolerating being underpaid, maybe you're tolerating being under supported, maybe you're tolerating your partner, not love, honoring your love language. Maybe you're tolerating doing all of the invisible labor and childcare at home, right? So make a really exhaustive list of all the things that you're tolerating, and then I want you to pick the three most expensive tolerations. So maybe the most expensive toleration is not having your boundaries honored at work, or not having help with child care at home. And then circle those three and see if you can make a plan to shifting those top three tolerations over the next 30 days. This will lead to profound shifts in our well being, because there's so much emotional labor that we do around those tolerations. It's so exhausting to carry them around, we kind of twist ourselves into pretzels to kind of make everything okay around those things. But what if we could just shift them? And oftentimes it's on the other end of just asking. So make a list of your tolerations. Circle the top three most expensive and see if you can start shifting those today.

Jamila Souffrant 38:21

I love that you framed it as expensive, you know, because then you can actually realize the impact that it's having, not just, you know, of course, emotionally, but also just financially, because all that's related, you know, I think if you are, you know, feeling heavy and burdened and just emotionally, like you said, your nervous system is not working together properly, like that affects all parts of your life. So I love that you connected that, yeah,

Amina AlTai 38:45

and they are really expensive because they keep us from the things that we really want to do. Like I realized I was really tolerating not being properly supported in my business. And that was expensive energetically, and it was expensive financially, because I could make a lot more money if I was in my zone of genius and not doing a bunch of admin things. So it can be expensive financially and in other ways too. I would also say go back to the micro habits as well. So what are the small ways throughout the day that we can take care of ourselves? So can we peel away five minutes to do some mindfulness? Can we take five minutes away from our desk to take a walk? Can we work on our nervous systems? All of those things are foundational that will set us up to see the world and how to make more money, so much more clearly. Because if we don't have our well being, we can't do anything else from that place.

Jamila Souffrant 39:33

So true. I'm gonna please tell us more, a bit about your work, where people can follow you and your work and find out more.

Amina AlTai 39:41

Thank you so much. So I work both one on one and in a group capacity in my coaching business. And so for career pivoters that are questioning what's next for them thinking about starting a business or transitioning inside of corporate and are looking for support around the dream and to do it with integrity and in a way that feels wonderful and boundaried and. All the glorious things you can hop on over to my website, Amina altai.com or on Instagram at Amina Altai spelling will be in the show notes.

Jamila Souffrant 40:08

Yes, I will link all of this in the show notes. I know that this will help someone listening to this, or a few people. So thank you so much, Amina, for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom.

Amina AlTai 40:18

Thank you so much for having me and thank you for being on my podcast. You are incredible. Yeah, tell

Jamila Souffrant 40:23

people a little bit about your podcast. Okay, I

Amina AlTai 40:26

also have a podcast called I'm gonna change your life, which is a podcast for the next generation of leaders, where we talk about everything from how to have a purposeful career to ethical wealth building to a new model of leadership. And we had Jamila on, and she's one of our most popular episodes, obviously.

Jamila Souffrant 40:40

Yay. So yeah, we will link all the podcasts in the show notes. But again, thanks so much for coming on

Amina AlTai 40:46

the show. Thank you so much for having me so awesome to be with you. Don't

Jamila Souffrant 40:51

forget, you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this and you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch.com/jumpstart

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