Episode 386: How Norly Jean-Charles Found Financial Independence, Saved Half Her Income & Bought Her Mom A Home

Norly Jean-Charles 0:02

And I kept my mindset that all I need is one yes. I probably did 20 to 40 interviews. And I know some people are just like, leave it alone, but I was like, This is what I thought. I was like, I'm not getting a yes, but I'm getting the interview. So that means that there's something about me that they like, because I'm getting into this room. So all I need to do, even though I've had 20 no's, is have one person say yes, because at least I'm getting into this room, because a lot of people don't get into this room. So I just kept going and going and going, and I got the job in 2018 t minus

Intro 0:36

10 seconds. Welcome to the journey to launch podcast with your host, Jamila souffrant as a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth, join her on The journey to launch to financial freedom in 54321, you. Hey,

Jamila Souffrant 1:03

hey, hey, hey, journeyers, welcome to the journey to launch podcast. Quick note, for the next couple months, I'll be sharing some rewind episodes that were previously aired on the podcast but were also mentioned as case studies in my book your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness. One of the things I wanted to do with the book is not only share my personal story in an effort for you, the reader. Hopefully you're a reader or will be to feel connected to the story and inspired, but I wanted to also share other people's stories and journeys, and to bring more diversity different starting points and scenarios that could be relatable to more people. So this first batch of episodes you'll hear are based on the topic of people paying off debt. The group of episodes after that will be rewind episodes based on people who are on the financial independence journey from various starting points. And we'll close out the series of rewinds with some fan favorite episodes. Again, all of these episodes and interviewees were mentioned in my book your journey to financial freedom, which is available now wherever books are sold, Amazon, Walmart, Barnes and Noble target, you name it, your local book seller or book shop. Now you can head over to your journey to financial freedom.com to get your copy and see all the places you can buy it. Now let's get into some debt payoff. Focus. Episodes. Please enjoy if you want the episode show notes for this episode. Go to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode in the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned, and so much more also, whether you are an OG journeyer or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes to listen to, stages to go through, to reach financial freedom, resources and so much more you can go to journey to launch.com/jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode. Hey, hey, hey, journeyers. I'm really excited to bring you this conversation because I love talking to my personal finance friends and experts and writers, but I really love talking to journeyers, people who are on the path to financial independence, like you, like me, and we have that today, we have a journeyer who is going to share with us her current journey, how she's gotten to where she's gotten where her finances and her Name is norly Jean, Charles, welcome to the podcast.

Norly Jean-Charles 3:42

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Yes. So

Jamila Souffrant 3:46

norley, the reason why I love talking to journeyers or just people who actually are just sharing their stories is because I find that those are the most relatable stories for other people listening. And I'm hoping that While not everyone can relate to every single thing, that whoever is listening to this we'll find some inspiration or something they can pull out of your story to apply it or help them with theirs. First, I want to let people hear a little background of how you first got introduced to journey to launch and how you became a journeyer. And then we'll go into the good stuff,

Norly Jean-Charles 4:17

of course. Well, I got introduced to journey to launch through one of my other Haitian lawyer friends, I do this little post on Instagram called finance Fridays. It's free. It's just for me and my 900 friends, where I share my journey. I talk about the personal finance stuff that I do, what I'm doing with my emergency fund, with my 401 K, and HSA and my investments. And then one of my friends was like, Hey, have you heard about journey to launch? You guys have similar stories, and I think you're really interested in it. And she's, you know, from Brooklyn. She's married to someone who's Haitian, and she has three kids, you probably like, have been through the similar neighborhoods and have not known and I was like, oh. I have not heard of that, and I'm going to listen to it. And as someone who's just always interested in personal finance, as soon as I started listening to your podcast, like as I'm working through the day, I turn it on and just listen to it. It just motivates me. I'm probably on Episode 234 because I've been listening to it straight through. I listened to every single episode, and I was like, let me see if, you know, I can, you know, get an interview, because I really, like, love this podcast. So that's how I get introduced to it, because of my little finance Fridays for my friends, just close friends. And then my friend was like, you need to, like, listen to Jamila souffrant. I was like, okay, and I did. And I was like, Hey, this is awesome. And I'm always talking about you with my friends. I repost your episodes. Like, if I really like an episode, I'll like repost it. And I got some friends to even start following you, because your stuff is just on point. Oh, thank you. And I love that. And that's the power of word of mouth,

Jamila Souffrant 5:55

which is why I always say, like, the best thing anyone can do if they're enjoying this show and the podcast is to tell a friend, you know, post it so that your actual friend or someone in your life can also get on board and be inspired if you're inspired. So love that also love that you're Haitian. So yes, my husband is also Haitian. There's so many similarities. I think when I was reading your bio, and I was like, Oh, my mom would is gonna love this episode, because I was reading through your background, which will get into your family immigrating here, you going through prep for PrEP, which I want to talk about a little bit. And so let's go back a bit. When did your family immigrate here, and your experience growing up as an immigrant here and with money,

Norly Jean-Charles 6:38

so to head back into like the early days, my grandfather came to East Flatbush, and he worked at Kings County. I'm a Brooklyn, Brooklyn. He worked at Kings County as an x ray technician. We lived on Hawthorne, between nothin and Rogers, and he came here with his wife, and he had his kids back in Haiti. And so, I guess, through chain migration and being able to bring your kids through the immigration system, he brought all of his children. And grandpa had some kids,

Jamila Souffrant 7:12

I can imagine.

Norly Jean-Charles 7:16

Yeah, so he, one by one, he brought, like, the oldest and my mom was probably in the middle somewhere. So she actually came here in around the early 1980s and then she got married to my father in back in Haiti, and she wanted to make sure that I receive citizenship, because we know that it's harder to make it here if you don't have, like, legal documentation. So we came, she came back specifically to Brooklyn to have me at Kings County Hospital. So I was born in Brooklyn, at Kings County, and then she took me back to Haiti. But when things got a little unrest, there was a clue. What Iris did she had by then, she had my sister and I, she also had my sister at Kings County. She was like, I cannot live in this unstable environment with two young women, and I don't feel like I can raise them here. Because one day she was she told me the story. She was picking me up from school, and they were just like mass protests, because people did not want our city to be in power. And she said there were tires burning in the street, and she's walking in the school with two little girls, and she's like, I can't stay here. I don't feel safe with my children. So she picked my sister and I up, and we moved into my grandfather's house, Hawthorne between ocean and Rogers. And that started my journey. I went to PSD 97 on Fenimore Street, right in front of Wingate Park. That was my elementary school journey, and it was, I think, a very great experience. Everyone at PSD 97 was a black woman. The assistant principal was a black woman, the principal was a black woman. All the teachers were black women. So my first immigrant experience here was just thinking that black women were in power. Even the security guard was this older black woman who could not even run. I don't know why she was a security guard. I think her name was Miss Winbush. She was the one at security. So I felt I grew up seeing black women in power, because I was in Flatbush. So that was like my first sort of beginning experience as an immigrant. So I was born here, but my mom having purposely to make sure that we didn't have any problems with documentation, because she knew it would be hard if that was the

Jamila Souffrant 9:29

case. And how old were you when you came to here to permanently move?

Norly Jean-Charles 9:33

When we permanently moved here, I was around five years old. We first moved with my mom's sister. We were in Cambridge, Massachusetts, which is another outpost of the Haitian community. A lot of Haitians live around the Boston area. And then I went to school there for about a year, and then my mom moved back in with her father in Brooklyn, and so I started going to school here around six or seven. First went to school at East New York, and then ended up at PSU 97 one. Was in Flatbush, so that was my elementary school experience. Wow.

Jamila Souffrant 10:03

And so growing up, and, you know, I understand this experience as you know, I know you listened to a bunch of the episodes before, and I've shared coming here at two years old, and also living with family until we can get on our feet. And from your memories growing up, when it came to like money, and what your mom did like when she came here, like, what were your memories around that? And how did it shape you, and how it play a role into how you have evolved today with money? I

Norly Jean-Charles 10:34

would say that one of the things I saw my mom do with money is she made the most out of the least. So when she first came here, she started as a CNA, and then we my grandfather lived on the sixth floor of the building. My mom started an apartment that she could afford as a CNA, CNA nurse, yeah, certified nursing assistant. And so we moved to the second floor. And I guess what I saw her experience with money is she put her children first. So my experience with her was she, my mom, worked like two or three jobs most of the time to make sure she could provide for my sister and I, and she partook in SUs which is like informal loan communities. So I saw my mom was a planner, so every summer, before we went to school so we could get all of our school supplies, my mom would make sure she was in a swoo So me and my sister could get the clothes and get everything that we needed. And what I did see about her is she didn't have a lot of money, but we didn't feel it. She cooked all the time. She was an amazing cook, so there was never the eating out or anything of that nature, and I never felt like I was missing out because her food was amazing. She made all of our dresses when we were growing up. I wore red. My sister wore pink. She made all my birthday cakes, and she cooked all our food. We'd be our lunchboxes going with food. She knew how to stretch $1 so I grew up with the mentality that you need to plan, especially if you have kids. And she was of a mentality, I guess, back in the Caribbean, that you put your kids first, so as long as we were good, she said that she was okay. So I grew up. The mentality I had was planning, was saving, was preparing, and it wasn't about a life of luxury. It was living a very simple life where your needs were met, and even if you didn't have a lot of money, you didn't feel it because she was sufficient in herself. She knew how to cook. She knew how to make dresses and anything that she could do to save money, she did it, and I appreciate her teaching me that, because it really she had to have management finances. Being a single mother in New York City because my father died when I was eight.

Jamila Souffrant 12:54

So while she was really resourceful, I want to go back and talk about just a susu for a minute, just in case someone doesn't know what that is. Can you explain how that works?

Norly Jean-Charles 13:03

So basically, my building was a bunch of Haitian people. Sometimes there were new immigrants. They didn't have access to credit, they didn't have access to money. Maybe they didn't have, you know, documentation. So they would pull their money together. So say, they said they decided the amount of money would be $1,000.05 women for five weeks, everyone would get a hand. Everyone will put $200 in. And until all the five people got the $1,000 that's how they'd make the run. So you just pull your money together, you get the hand, then the second person get the hand, and the second person gets a hand, and everyone and it ends when everyone gets their $1,000 those five people that put the $200 in. So that was what she did to sometimes get us school uniforms, clothes and things that we needed for school because she, you know, couldn't necessarily go to the makeup like, Hey,

Jamila Souffrant 13:53

let me take a loan to buy my kids some school supplies, right? No, I mean, and talk about the resourcefulness of not only your mom, but just the community to figure out their own solutions. And I know people still do this to this day, and it's necessary and needed in communities where there is a lack of access banking deserts, or the lack of access to credit and capital. So with your mom, you know, I find it interesting that some of the things that we tout as like what we need to do to become financially independent. It's almost like the an option is wasn't an option for like, our parents growing up like they had to be resourceful and stretch $1 and cook at home and maybe buy secondhand clothes and all this, because that was the only thing to do, like that was what was going to help them survive financially. And I think it's really nice to see that. Why you don't say It's luxurious, like how you grew up, maybe materialistic wise, like I feel like you live the life of love in luxuriousness, because a lot of kids are not receiving that, like some parents are so. Busy, like I feel like, sometimes they switch like they're so busy working, it's, you know, really all they can focus on is the money and making sure their kids look good, but that, like love and attention and special care, where you feel like secure, like emotionally and mentally secure in your household, like that actually, to me, provides a solid foundation for what we see. I think the product of you me, which is what I felt like I got from my mom, is what helped me become who I am today. It's like that internal luxury that we've received growing up. So I just want to, like stress that, because as a parent myself, I have to remember that is what I want to pour, mostly into my kids. Yeah, the material things are cool, but not really. It's more important that I show them love and care and kindness and all these things it seems like you were able to grow up in. Yeah,

Norly Jean-Charles 15:43

I think it's important. It's what made my mom stand out. After my father died, she brought my grandmother to the home, and my grandmother really helped with child care. There was someone there when I went, when I had to come back from school. There was someone that made me do the homework. Couldn't watch TV Monday to Friday. Homework had to be done TV on the weekends, and if I got home five minutes late, grandma would call my mother and let her know. So even though she grew up in a single home, I had a feeling of a two parent home, because the two women in my life provided me with such security and love, and I felt valued, and I felt that someone was looking after me, that I really didn't necessarily feel insecure, even if we were struggling, because they poured their love into me. And I really always appreciate that about them,

Jamila Souffrant 16:30

yes, and I could tell already like that the education, the importance of education, was stress to you growing up as it is to most immigrants and people coming to this country, because it is the pathway out like, to find a better career to make more money. So can you talk about what that looked like for you because all of this I'm setting the background because we're leading up to like what you do in in terms of your career, your how your income has fueled your financial independence goal. But I want to like, show people like the work it took for you to establish your education and your career before you started making the money. Well,

Norly Jean-Charles 17:05

one of the first things my mom used to do, or more than the first things my mom did, was, you know, Haitians, they know French and Creole. So she had to learn English, and she took English school, English classes at Columbia University. And she told me that she'd walk me on campus and she'd be like, you know, one day you're gonna go here. But I didn't know anything else. It's like, okay, yes, cool. But that was always stressed to me. My mom came here. She was a CNA, she became a licensed practitioner nurse, an LPN, and then she became an RN, just about five years ago, in her 50s, she kept pushing and pushing and pushing herself until she got what she wanted. She always told me she wanted to be a doctor in Haiti. She was incredibly smart. She was third in her class. She did very well her national exams. But the political situation was so unstable, so untenable, that she had to move herself and her children to America because she didn't feel safe there, especially as a woman. So when I came to this country, it's not even like she stressed it to me, my mom, she didn't spend money on food or she didn't spend money on our clothes, but she got me whatever book I wanted. So one of the first things that stressed about education was, remember book fairs? Yes, the Scholastic book fairs? Yes, my mother would go to the Scholastic Book Fair at PS 297 Miss star librarian, and she dropped 100 200 $300 at the book fair and buy me whatever book I want. I had all the Babysitters Club books. Add all the Goosebumps books, the box the boxcar club books. Add all those books like my my friends were buying, like, pencils. Remember the pencils? Yeah, and erasers, and I was there buying stickers, yes, and I was just buying a lot of books, so she really nourished my reading like I had a huge library. Then she'd buy me the memorization cards, and she'd buy me trivia games so I could memorize things. She checked my homework after school, and she'd sign it to let the teacher know that she checked it, and she didn't allow me to watch television from Monday to Friday, because she really wanted me to focus on school. So I think because she didn't get the chance to become the doctor, she became the nurse. I think having kids really she had to put that on the back burner, but she still achieved the dream in her 50s, after we had grown up, but she pushed me to do the best I can in school, because I feel like she knew that it was my opportunity, and I could go further than she had, because she had come to this country. So I always felt that I came here with a purpose. It was to push myself to get to the furthest education because of the sacrifice that I knew my mother made for me and even my grandmother, she didn't finish well in school. She She finished like the sixth grade, and then she had to go support her family. She became a babysitter and started looking after kids. So the two most poignant women in my life that I grew up with, I knew they had to make sacrifices for their families and not get the full educations they needed. So even. As a young kid, I always just love school, and I knew that they were making a sacrifice so I could get a good education, so that was really incredibly important to me.

Jamila Souffrant 20:09

And then you went to high school, and I know you joined a program that's still around today, prep for PrEP, you can explain what that is, but how you then navigated to through college and what you're you ended up getting a degree in. So

Norly Jean-Charles 20:22

one of the things that benefited me because my mom really nourished my love of reading. She bought me every book I wanted at book fairs. That was one thing. She didn't say no to clothes, no, I can make it books, okay, I'll buy it.

Jamila Souffrant 20:35

I can't write them.

Norly Jean-Charles 20:39

So I had really high city wide test scores. I was scoring in the top percentile. And one of my teachers, Miss Alexander, she was like, you know, you've been scoring really high test scores, and I've heard about this program that places students from under resourced communities into private school, especially if they're doing really well on these citywide test scores. And that was prep for PrEP. She told my mom about it, of course, you know, my mom was like, yes, but one of the things about prep for PrEP was you had to prepare to go to these private schools. So I got into prep for PrEP. You had to take an entrance exam, and then I had to stay at prep for prep for one year. I went to school on Wednesdays and Saturdays, and I went to school over the summer. Before I was able to matriculate into private school, I ended up in getting into the Calhoun School, which is on West 81st Street in upper upper Manhattan. So yeah, that's, that was my experience at prep for prep and with my mother. Wow,

Jamila Souffrant 21:38

that's amazing, yeah. And as a mom now and looking forward at the trajectory and education of my children, it's so important to know these resources. Prep is a national program.

Norly Jean-Charles 21:49

It's based in New York, but ABC, I think, is maybe national or based outside of New York. A better chance, yeah, a

Jamila Souffrant 21:56

better chance is actually something I'm looking into now, because my kids are, you know, they're not at that the fourth grade level yet, which is where you can apply. But I'm saying all this to say, if you are in the New York City or in any area, and you are a parent, some of these programs, or even a college student, like some of these programs, like for me, I did inroads as a college students, which placed minority students into fortune 500 companies as interns, and it changed my career path and how much money I was able to earn honestly by getting into that program as a freshman in college and hearing about your experience with prep, for prep and all these there's some amazing programs out there that parents need to know about so that you can give your your children, if that's something that you're interested in, an opportunity to be their best or earn their best or learn their best. I'm bringing this up and specifically talking about it because I want more people to understand that there are programs out there that you can look into that can help you. So prep for prep the ABC a better chance program,

Norly Jean-Charles 22:53

Oliver. And then there's prep nine that places New York City area kids into boarding schools from the ninth to 12th grade. Those are really popular ones that I know about and that a lot of my friends have been in, right?

Jamila Souffrant 23:06

So all these, you know, write it down. I know these are some New York City based ones, but there are some national ones, or it may be something in your city you can be aware of. All right, so fast forward. Let's fast forward. Yeah, you do end up at college. You went to Columbia, right? Yes,

Norly Jean-Charles 23:18

I got a full scholarship. I was a kluge scholar. I opened the letter with my mother, and she saw that she didn't have to pay, and she said, that is where you are going.

Jamila Souffrant 23:27

What's the name? What's the name of the scholar?

Norly Jean-Charles 23:29

Kluge scholarship? It was, it was basically a scholarship for diverse students that had some roots in, like grassroots activism, where, because when I was in high school, I had a part I had a part time job at this grassroots organization called the Brotherhood sister soul in Harlem, and basically we ran anti gentrification campaigns, and we did the summer liberation School, where it taught black and brown students about their histories, about the histories of activism. And they had development programs that were for men and women to basically talk about growing up, developing into manhood or womanhood as they were growing up as people of color within the New York City area, and how that may have impacted them. So I went there, and I got the Kluge scholarship, had a full ride to Columbia University, and I graduated with a degree in anthropology.

Jamila Souffrant 24:18

Wow. And so from there you went on to degree, a further pursuit. So what was that?

Norly Jean-Charles 24:24

After I graduated in 2009 so it was like, you know, kind of during the recession, there weren't a lot of job opportunities available. But I did get into this program called Teach for America, which placed college students nationally into under resourced schools. I got placed into this charter school in North Philadelphia called people, free people charter school. It's still there on broad and Brown Street, and I was an eighth grade English teacher for two years, and then I did one more year of teaching at Cape, West Philadelphia, and I was a seventh grade English teacher for a year before I attended the University of Pennsylvania Law School, where I. I'm not a lawyer. Wow.

Jamila Souffrant 25:01

Okay, so when you got your anthropology degree, what did you think you were going to do with that? I

Norly Jean-Charles 25:06

always knew I wanted to go to law school. And just basically, when you want to be a lawyer, they just want to see that you did very, very well, that you took courses that were very reading and writing intensive. Because to get into law school, you need to take the LSAT. So the LSAT is going to determine what law school you're able to go into. So before you want to be a lawyer in college, you should just really focus on getting the best grades possible and trying to get a major that's reading and writing intensive, because that's what the law is, right? So

Jamila Souffrant 25:32

you knew that you were preparing for that exactly. I mean, you graduated undergrad with no loans, I'm assuming, yeah, I didn't have any debt coming out of Columbia, right? It's interesting because I've spoken to some guests, and they got, like, the free ride, but then they still ended up not understanding how student loans work and that they'd one day have to pay it back. They still ended up on top of, like the free ride, maybe taking out some loans, but it seems like you didn't go that route initially for your undergrad, but now, as you are in law school, I know you had to take out loans for that. So what was that process like in terms of graduating from like law school and now dealing with student loans, which I'm sure are six figures most lawyers student loans are, and finding a job after that?

Norly Jean-Charles 26:16

Well, I would say that I knew the luxury of coming out of a grade school without debt. So when I came out with debt, I was like, What is this?

Unknown Speaker 26:29

This needs to go.

Norly Jean-Charles 26:30

So basically, the one thing I will say, and as I'm talking to you, I just realized having a lot of like, amazing black women around me has really helped me is when I went to Penn Law, I went in knowing I'm going to have six figure debt. There was no way I could afford the school. I didn't have savings, I didn't have a trust, and I did not have a mother that could support me going to Penn Law. But I also went specifically to Penn Law because I it was known as a school that had real good ties to their business school, were in school, and it placed a lot of their graduates into big law which are high earning law firms where you have high salaries. So I didn't go into it blind. I went into it saying, I'm going to take out a lot of debt, but I'm going to get a salary that's going to make me pay this debt off. I didn't go into it saying I'm going to take out a lot of debt and then I'm going to become a public interest attorney and make $50,000 a year. There's nothing wrong with that, but I'm just saying that is why I went to that school, specifically because I wanted to be able to pay that debt off when I came out. I didn't want to struggle because I don't want to struggle. So, yeah, that's what I did. I talked to some female attorneys at Penn Law, and I was like, What are you going to do? Like, this is a lot of debt. And they were like most of them just said they refinanced. They, I guess, took it out of the government loans. They refinanced to get a lower interest rate, lower payments, and then a lot of them used the refinancing with the lower interest rates, and then they used their bonuses to pay it off within five to seven years. So even then, I knew that there was a pathway to become debt free. And I've had women before me that did it. A lot of my female friends that went to law school were very financially savvy, and they paid off their loans in five to seven years by refinancing and by using their bonuses to pay it off, and that's what I plan to do.

Jamila Souffrant 28:16

Hi, Jamila here, host of this podcast and author of the book, your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness. Just a few years ago, I was in a job I didn't like, with a long commute, feeling stuck. I knew there had to be a different, better way. Then I found the pathway to financial freedom and financial independence. Today, I have more money options and freedom than I ever thought was possible, and in my book, Your journey to financial freedom, I'll show you how you can achieve that too. You'll learn how to spend and save responsibly, all while enjoying that spicy Margarita and exercise of guacamole. Determine where you are on the journey and evaluate your spending and saving goals accordingly. Quit your job, retire early or reach financial independence. My book, your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness, is out now and available on Amazon bookshop.org, Barnes and Noble and more, you can leave and listen to the audiobook, narrated by me. Go to your journey to financial freedom.com. To get a free bonus when you order the book and see all the places to buy it once again, go to your journey to financial freedom.com. You said your mom, what you saw from her was that she planned, and you obviously are a planner and had a lot of strategy behind the decisions you made. I think that's amazing and wonderful. And I know, like, hindsight is 2020, for so many people. Because, you know, if knowing what a lot of people know now, especially listeners, they'd be like, Yep, I would have thought about things differently to norley when I was going to college. But it's really good to see like, I'm just, it's just inspiring to see like that this, these were thoughtful decisions that you made. And I. Um, follow through on to put you in a place to be where you are, so you graduate from law school. So the plan is working like so far, it seems like everything that you're setting up for yourself is happening you, you, I'm assuming, get a really, like, a good job with a good salary. And I'd like to talk a bit about, like now, your journey with money and financial independence. So when did you first, I guess, discover financial independence? I know we talked about when you discovered journey to launch, but when did you become awakened to the idea of Wait, I don't have to like work forever, or I can retire early. What was that point? Because then we could talk about the strategies you're using now to get you to ultimate financial independence.

Norly Jean-Charles 30:37

I will say that for all my life, even while I was a teacher, I was always a saver, because I saw my mom saving and participating in Susu. So when I was a teacher at Teach for America, working in Philadelphia, I made $40,000 a year, and within two years, I saved $20,000 I was a saver because I knew that I had it was mostly fear based. I was in a new city. I knew I didn't have anyone to help me, like I knew my mom. I could always move back in with her, and that is a blessing, of course, but I knew if I couldn't make my rent, or if something bad were to happen, that I would have to pay for anything. So I would always like to stress that even at my lowest salaries, I was saving 50% but I didn't know about 401, KS, or anything of that nature, but I was always a saver, because I was always like, this is, you know, like strong black woman mentality is like, you only have yourself. You don't have anyone else to help you. Your family cannot help you, so you can't blow this money. And I also graduated during the time of the recession, everyone was scared. People weren't getting jobs. So we weren't out like, we weren't out here traveling and doing all this stuff. People were graduating without jobs in college. So I was fortunate to get a job. So when I got one, I saved a lot of my money because I was like, I don't know what's gonna happen with this recession, and I don't know where the economy is going. That was always in the back of my mindset. But yes, I discovered the fire movement. And actually, right before the pandemic in 2020 I was just on IG, and I was scrolling through and then personal finance club popped up with Jeremy. I

Jamila Souffrant 32:03

everybody's name is Schneider. I hope I don't butcher it, yeah. He's on Instagram. He has a very big account, yeah, yeah.

Norly Jean-Charles 32:09

And then I saw this investment list where he basically had a list about, you know, the best way to invest. He was like, you know, tax deferred accounts first. And then I saw HSAs, I saw IRAs, and I saw index funds. I was like, What is this? Because I'm just saved. I'm just a saver. I was just like, even before that, was saving half of my salary just into my savings account, because I always save. I've always saved, but I wasn't investing. I was like, What is this? And then I started, and I saw that he'd retired at 36 even though I saw that he retired at 36 because he sold his business, you know. But still, he was still showing people that these are some ways to use, you know, your tax deferred accounts, and these are some ways to use investment vehicles that people have been using to be able to grow your money. And that's when I got into the movement. I saw financial independence retire early, and then I led me to zero based budget. Led me to you. Led me to not, I know clever girl finance is not really a fire movement, but still talking about personal finance for women and for women of

Jamila Souffrant 33:03

color. Well, that's the beauty of this. It's just like, once you get into it, it's like, it's a rabbit hole like that. You love falling in, because then you start finding people. Then you know, you find someone who's you have a lot of things to come up with, and you find something you've never heard about, that you never do. But let me see what they're doing over there. It's the beauty of the internet and the community. So you said something really interesting. So you didn't find out about financial independence or even investing until about 2020 so up until it seems like, right, yeah,

Norly Jean-Charles 33:31

basically, in 2018 I knew what a 401, k1, because one of the things you said were, like, Did you graduate with, like, a high salary job? Actually, I did not one of my first jobs I graduated. I was making under six figures, and so I had to live with my mom because my loans were so much that I could only afford my loans and not be able to afford an apartment. And then I had to network, and then I had to network, and then I found a job where I was making significant amount of money. And with that, I was like, I'm making because as a saver, because I've always saved 50% I was like, I have a lot of money in the bank now. Like, there's something else I can do with it, because I've never been one to spend all my money. And then I was like, then I started reading about 401, k's and of that nature. And then I fell into Germany, because I was already like, I'm saving. But I know there's something like, I think inflation is killing my money. Like, what am I doing? I can't just save to wealth. Everyone's like, you can't save to wealth. You can't save to wealth. You have to invest. And that's when I fell into the fire movement, because I had now had the money. It wasn't just caught up in the loans where I could make some moves and try to figure out what I wanted to

Jamila Souffrant 34:35

do. Yeah, and I think it's really important, like, the saving for a lot of immigrants, and there's a lot of people just, if you are versed enough to even know to save and have money to save, right? Is that okay? I'm putting into a savings account, but with inflation, and now today's time where inflation is even, you know, higher, like, literally, your money is losing value just sitting in a savings account, and investing is the way to wealth. You. When you graduated, you did not have a six figure job from law school. No, I did, but you did have the resume, right? You had like on your resume probably looked amazing, but I'd love to know for you, what did that network look like? How did you start to reach out or make the connections to get the higher paying job? I

Norly Jean-Charles 35:16

I reached out to recruiters that I knew would like the name of my law school, law recruiters that worked with law firms. And most importantly, the most important thing that I did, updated my LinkedIn, of course, to make sure that I was appealing there. And I just researched firms that I wanted to and I if I like the practice group like I first I wanted to be in investment management, I just directly emailed the associates that worked at that firm my resume, and I asked them for an informational interview. I would send maybe 20 emails to one firm, and I just needed one. Yes, I would get on a call with that, on that with that person, and if they liked me, I'd say, hey, and they'd usually tell me, we'll pass your resume on to management. And I got three or four interviews based off of that, but my first job, but that's how I got, like, my first big firm job. I just did it myself. A lot of people were like, oh, maybe you need to use a recruiter, or maybe you need to go into public interest for a little bit. And then I was like, I do not want to go into public interest. I know I went to law school. I'm just going to network myself. And if you don't believe in me, good for you. I know that, like, I know that when someone likes you, they'll pull for you. And I always said to myself, all you need is one yes. And so I kept going until I got my one yes,

Jamila Souffrant 36:29

yes, yes. And you hear that, it's like, you know, update the LinkedIn, reach out, you know, an informational interview. So explain how that's different for asking for a formal interview for a job for someone, basically, I'd

Norly Jean-Charles 36:41

go in saying I'd send them my resume, because the resume is, of course, showing them that I have some sort of skills or expertise that is tied to their practice area. And then I'd say, Hey, I see your firm is also involved within the practice area that I'm involved in. Would I can I talk to you about the opportunities there? Can I talk to you about the work life balance there? Can I talk to you about your assignments there, and basically just asking them about how they were at the firm, and, you know, get some information based on their work style or what the firm was like there. So that's what information you're not necessarily asking to get a job. You're just asking about the job, and if seeing if there's any similarities, or if you want to go forward based off talking to that person that's already there, right?

Jamila Souffrant 37:23

And you'd be surprised, like, how many people are interested in talking about themselves and being able to, like, share their expertise, right? And so money, obviously, is important, but for a lot of people starting out like they don't have necessarily the connections and or the money, and you have to create that. And sometimes it's more important to have the connection, because once you have the connection to the person knows your name, it's a different like playing field or being in the right room. So all that kind of the programs we talked about before, whereas, like, someone has no clue that exists, so they don't apply for it, or they don't apply their kid to go into that, but it puts them in different rooms with different people who can now start advocating for them, or you can start advocating for yourself. So I just love that, and I hope someone does that today where it's like, you're interested in a job, you know, fix that resume up, fix the LinkedIn up, reach out to the associates at that company and ask for the informational interview. You could be surprised. Where you can get with that. And,

Norly Jean-Charles 38:13

you know, that's one of the things that I really think it's like an intangible skill or intangible power that I got from going through private school, because when I was in public school, everyone looked like me. It was 99% black, and everyone came from Flatbush, but my private school along around white people, around white men, because I had grown up with them. I knew I know like they're not homogenous, and that there are different people, but I felt a comfort so I didn't feel like shy, reaching out to people that didn't look like me because I grew up around them. And I think that's one of the skill sets that prep for PrEP gave me. I was just like, some people like, Oh, don't you feel uncomfortable? Which I was like, No, I've grown up around these people. I don't feel uncomfortable. I need to make this money to pay these loans back, and I'm going to reach out right now. So I think that's one of the powers that gave me growing up within that realm that I haven't really thought about, but I thought about now because I did not feel any shame, I didn't feel any discomfort. I was just like, I need to do this, and I'm going to do it, and I have to, I love that you

Jamila Souffrant 39:13

just had the that epiphany, because it is true that now leads me back to some of the ways I've navigated in my life. Is that because I've also was exposed to, like, more diverse people growing up, I went to a diverse high school, college, like, so I always felt like, okay, maybe, and maybe ignorance is bliss. In a way. It's like, you like, we know, I think you know, obviously you know when you're the only person of color or black person in the room, you know that there are some differences. You know that they may be some just inherent, like people are being outright racist, or just, like, subtle about it. And I mean, I've experienced it, I've known that, but I've just never felt like it was like that has nothing to do with me, like I'm gonna still get what I want from this situation. And that ignorance, I don't think it's ignorance. I think it's the confidence, but the boldness of that, where some people do feel like. I feel self conscious that I'm here, and it's more of like the you know, how they operate in a room, then it impacts how they navigate and how they're not networking and putting themselves out there. And so I just think it's important to note and people have different experiences, and sometimes like it is a different outcome based on what you can the person deal with and navigate. So all right, you went now you're have these informational interviews you get, ended up getting a job that you're earning more money. At what point did this happen? I graduated

Norly Jean-Charles 40:31

in 2015 so in between 2015 and 2018 the job that I had was not six figures. I was still living with my mom. But I kept networking, I kept reaching out to recruiters. And even though I had that job, I used that job to get another job, and I kept my mindset that all I need is one yes. I probably did 20 to 40 interviews. And I know some people are just like, leave it alone, but I was like, This is what I thought. I was like, I'm not getting a yes, but I'm getting the interview. So that means that there is something about me that they like, because I'm getting into this room. So all I need to do, even though I've had 20 no's, is have one person say yes, because at least I'm getting into this room, because a lot of people don't get into this room. So I just kept going and going and going, and I got the job in 2018

Jamila Souffrant 41:19

right? Okay, so you got now, you got a better paying job. You're still not necessarily investing. But now let's look fast forward a bit to 2020, where you find out, wow, there's something called financial independence. Retire early the fire movement. These are where I should be investing, or here's some accounts I need to know about. What are your first steps? So from going from just saving and having this high income, how you now changing courses so that you are pursuing financial independence? Well, one

Norly Jean-Charles 41:44

of the first things I did when I got my job in 2018 was probably very alternative to what most people do when they get high paying jobs. So they got a financial advisor, and then the first thing I told him, because I was used to saving, is I wanted to move out of my mother's house, because I wanted to establish some sort of independence for myself, and I wanted to have an emergency fund. So the first thing that I told them is, I don't want the three to six months emergency fund, because with my specific area, it takes big law firm attorneys at least six months to find a job. So I was like, I need an emergency fund for six to 12 months, and then I want to try to see what else I can do from there. So during that 2018, to 2020, timeframe, I was building up my army emergency fund, because for me, specifically, three to six months is not enough. I need more because it takes me longer to find a job. Because my salary is so high, it's a huge overhead cost, and it's fiercely competitive that if I lose my job, it will take me longer to find another job. So when I was basically coming up to having eight or nine months, I was like, Okay, I'm going to start, you know, I'm talking to my financial advisor. He's like, telling me about 401, K's HSAs. And I was like, and that's why I started, that's why I found Jeremy, because I started researching, and I'm like, reading about things. And I was like, okay, because I'm trying to learn about these different vehicles. And then that's when I find about the fire movement and how I could, because of my salary, accelerate my retirement plans because of doing that. And so some of the things that I started doing was I had been saving half of my monthly salary to build up my army emergency fund for six to 12 months. So I started just maxing out my 401 K, I maxed out my HSA, and then I placed the rest of my salary into seven different ETFs. So basically, I went from saving that for my emergency fund, and I immediately took it and I put them into three different investment vehicles, two that were worth my job, and then the other one that was with a brokerage account in ETFs, right.

Jamila Souffrant 43:42

Okay, so I just want to just recap that you had you started putting money into your pre tax retirement account so you're saving on taxes, and at your high income, it's very smart to do then HSA health savings account, which is also a powerful investing vehicle, because it's tax advantage going in, and you save on taxes going out. I haven't a whole episode about that that I'll link to for anyone interested in learning more about health savings account. And then the third option, or third thing that you did was you started taxable investing, right? So there's no, it's not a retirement account. It's literally opening up a account with a brokerage firm, and you are just putting money into that every month. So and I'm assuming the other thing that I want to just make sure it's clear is because you already built up your emergency fund. Now, it seems like you can just all that money you were putting towards that can go towards investing, but I know you also had the loans, and you're not going the way of loan forgiveness through working for the public sector. So how are you navigating, like paying off your loans and in any other debt, if you had any other debt,

Norly Jean-Charles 44:44

I didn't have any other debt. I only had loans. I don't have a car. I don't have a mortgage. I actually negotiated my rent to be 30% less over the pandemic for two years. Thank God, because the rent is going crazy in New York. Yeah, so with my loans, I went with the plan that I heard the black women at Penn Law did I refinanced This was before the pandemic, actually, right before I was actually kind of angry when I did it, but I refinanced my loans and I'm just paying that minimum. And what I'm doing with my loans is I get pretty generous bonus, so I'm just paying the minimum throughout the year, and then when I get my bonus, I'm splitting it in two, and I'm paying half debt with in terms of paying my law school loans down, and then I'm gonna vesting the rest into my tax taxable brokerage account. So I'm just depending on my bonuses to kill the loans and paying the minimum after refinancing. That's what I'm doing, right?

Jamila Souffrant 45:41

And so it sounds like we're going to go back to that 30% rent negotiation, because I know that there's some gems in here for someone to take, pouring all your money or into investing, paying off your student loan debt. So your cost of living, your expenses, I want to get to that side, because technically, probably with how much you make you, I'm assuming, you could be living a more lavish lifestyle. And so what does that look like for you in terms of keeping that cost down? So you mentioned your rent, you were able to negotiate. What were some things that you did to keep your rent down or to negotiate it down in other areas that you're saving in terms of expenses? Well,

Norly Jean-Charles 46:17

one of the things that I saw in around 2021, a lot of people were moving out. They were so scared of the pandemic. There pandemic. They were buying homes because the interest rates were so low, and they're moving to the suburbs. So almost every month, I saw trucks outside of my building with people moving out, and then the apartment next to me was empty. And I saw a lot about like, my building has balconies. I saw that a lot of the furniture was not there. So, you know, I smelled blood.

Jamila Souffrant 46:43

You're like, all right? I was like, I

Norly Jean-Charles 46:46

know you guys aren't doing well right now. So because of that, in that market, it's a renter's market, because everyone's leaving, so I just knew that when it came time for me to negotiate my lease, that that's something that I would be able to use. So I wrote an email, and I said, I see a lot of people moving. I want to stay. I want to do a two year lease. And I gave them my price point, and I gave them an advantage that they wouldn't have to fill my unit for two years. But I also negotiated a 30 month leave out, like I could leave within if I gave them notice within 30 days, I could exit out the two year lease, because two years is a long time and you don't know what's going to happen. Life happens fast, and because I read the market, I was able to do that. So my rental expenses are only 12% of my monthly salary. I don't have my debt is my school loan, and that's really just it. I don't have a car. I don't have children yet, so I've really, basically, what I'm paying for is my rent and my school loans, and that's what's helped me invest so much money, because I do not have a lot of responsibilities,

Jamila Souffrant 47:56

right? And then also, did you pick up any of the homemaking skills from your mom, like, are you cooking a lot?

Norly Jean-Charles 48:04

Exactly? I Every I'm very into fitness. I exercise monday to friday. I do strength training. I know you hate running. I hate running too, but I do

Jamila Souffrant 48:12

do some sprints. It's so effective, that's the thing. It's so effective.

Norly Jean-Charles 48:16

Yeah, and I meal prep from Monday to Friday. So every Sunday I have a chicken and fish based diet. I meal prep all my meals, and that means breakfast, lunch and dinner, and I buy my snacks. So every week, like I'm not, I only eat out maybe Saturdays and Sundays, because, you know, you have to enjoy life, and the city has so many restaurants. So I do eat out, like once or twice a week, but for a majority of the week, I'm not buying food. My rent is low. I only have a cell phone. I don't have a car, so I've kept my expenses extremely low, even though I do love to travel. I travel a lot, but it's also because I've kept my expenses extremely low that I've been able to do that.

Jamila Souffrant 48:58

Yeah, so how are you navigating this with like friends, like other maybe, if you have other lawyer friends or other high salary earners who maybe are not on this track of not spending all their money, not saving or investing their money like they're spending it, and they're like showing that they're spending it like how you navigating your friendships and hanging out and spending money in that

Norly Jean-Charles 49:15

way. Well, I will say, in terms of me and my my friends, they're very like minded, like I told you about the finance Fridays, where I talk about what I'm doing. So honestly, a lot of my friends do the same things I do, and I think that's one of the things that's been really important to my journey, is to surround myself with like minded people. Like, if you're one of my a lawyer that's spending an obnoxious amount of money, that's fine, it's your money, but I'm not going to place myself within your vicinity, because I don't want any temptation. So most of my friends actually live like I do, so it's a constant reinforcement. And seeing there's no Keeping Up with the Joneses. We don't want to be the Joneses. We want to have an option of retire early, so we're all on the same path. And I will say that's something that's really good about my friends, and that's something. I think that's really powerful that I did, like, once I decided to go on this journey, I started talking about it. My friends asked me, and a lot of them are on the journey too. So it's been, I think that's actually been very rewarding and important for me. I don't have a lot of, I guess, envy or I don't feel like I should be doing other things, because my friends are doing what I'm doing honestly.

Jamila Souffrant 50:18

And the interesting thing about this path is that if everyone is being just really conscious about their money, so like, you know, like, you're not keeping up with the Joneses. So let's just say someone does have that high salary and they're able to, like, go to the more expensive restaurant, but maybe you have a friend that technically can't, really shouldn't be paying the same amount because they don't earn as much, and they maybe have just different things going on, like there's that there's no pressure to feel like you have to put out more money or keep up, and everyone doesn't matter how much you make. I mean, on the income side, it does, but when you're with your friends, it's not showing that, oh, I make six figures or more. I just remember me, myself, personally, being just graduating from college and earning a decent money. And then, as I was in my 20s, not even into financial independence just yet, but because all my friends and I, like, we lived the same way, and they were, like, a lot of my college friends still were my in my 20s, friends, just because I started earning more money, didn't mean like we spent more money, like we still acted like we didn't have any money. We still did budget travel, still at the time were like six girls in a hotel room, like it never felt like, oh, because I'm making more money right now that I have to show that, like it just felt really good as a friend group to still be cheap together.

Norly Jean-Charles 51:30

Yeah, and I think it's also just being conscientious. I know that I'm probably top five, top 1% earner in the world, so 99% of people, or 95% of people, aren't going to aren't going to make as much as me. So I'm not going to sit here and have a lot of hubris and invite you to the most expensive restaurants. No, we can still go to the park. We can get some pizza. I can cook for you. I can come to the trous. I still go to Flatbush. I still can go to Dallas BBQ or Applebee's. I'm not going to put on high heirs like I know where I come from. I know where my family comes from, and this money doesn't define me. I can have fun without doing all those things. Yes, I can do them too, but I'm also conscientious, like, if I want to do those expensive things, I'll invite people that I know that can afford it, and if I don't, I go do free stuff with people that may not be able to afford it. You can do both those things and have an amazing life, and I think it's very nice to be that way. You don't have to change because you have a lot of money.

Jamila Souffrant 52:22

What I also like is that you do value traveling, and it's something you spend your money on. You just said. So just because you are frugal or just more conscientious in some areas doesn't mean you can't spend in the way that brings you joy. So can you talk a little bit about your like, what you like spending money on, and I know traveling is one of them.

Norly Jean-Charles 52:44

Yes, recently you had an episode. I forgot his name, but he was like, cut mercilessly the things that you don't like and spend luxuriously on the things that you love. And that's really resonated with me. For me, yep, so basically, what I've been doing is in my bonus. I told you, with my bonus, I pay off my school loans and I invest, but I also earmark a portion for my travels, because that's what's important to me. So just over the past year, I've been like, I spent two weeks in Ghana. I was able to spend one month in Miami, in July. I'm gonna go to Zanzibar. I want to go to St Lucia. So even though, but I will, like, I always stress to people that, like, how do you travel so much? I've decreased my rent. I meal prep for five to six times out of the week. I don't have a lot of debt. And I also, I've cut down on shopping. Like, I don't think I've seriously shopped unless something is broken within like, two years, I'll shop once a year, like, if I need new sandals, like during the winter time, I'll get them all at Steve Madden when they're on sale. Like, stock up, you know, get the off season deals. But I've cut down on eating out. I've cut down my rent, and I've cut down on shopping so that I could pour into my pursuits, which is, I love traveling, and how I afford it is, I'll cut a percentage of my bonus that I get, and I'll just dedicate it to travel that year. And, you know, it makes me happy, and that's what I love doing.

Jamila Souffrant 54:08

I love that. I love that you're, you're full focused on, like, the end goal of financial independence, which, by the way, I'd love to know what that end goal looks like for you. How long do you see it taking you to have enough money to where you don't have to

Norly Jean-Charles 54:22

work. I will say this about anyone that's like in a high salary, you can do it yourself, or you can get a financial advisor. But I do have a financial advisor, and one of the things after I thoroughly examined his credentials, is I told him that I want to invest with fire in mind, and that's a different investment style than investing till traditional retirement, or 6567 so every year we're trying to see if I'm on track. So I told him that I want to be financially independent by 40, and I'm on track to be financially independent by 40. I'm 35 right now. We had a discussion about a month ago, and he said, If you keep investing as you are, and nothing can. Changes. This is not taken into place that I get bigger bonuses or that my salary increases, which it does every year, by 40, will be financially independent. But that's also because I've kept my expenses so low that it's gonna help me achieve it even more greatly, because I'm not living off that much of my money, right? It's your

Jamila Souffrant 55:19

financial independence number is directly correlated to how much you correlated to how much you you spend, and so you foresee that you'll keep up the same lifestyle even after you reach financial independence like so to say you did get all the money or accumulate that money once you quit your job, you don't see that you're going to be spending more doing something different with your expenses or lifestyle.

Norly Jean-Charles 55:36

Yeah, and I don't necessarily, one of the things I put in the interview is I'm trying to achieve, like, a fat fire. So I'm just trying to, I want a luxurious fire, like, um, a fire like, I guess 10 million something absurd, but that's what I'm going for. So even if I reach my fire number where I can keep spending at the rate that I am now, I do want to have a more luxurious life. So I'm, I'm going to stay in the workforce past reaching fire, because I want to reach a fat fire, and I want to have even more than I need to have, because I want to live a life that I will remember, and I want to live a life on behalf of the women that sacrificed their life in Haiti to come here, sacrifice their education, and, you know, also help them out too. I help out my mom and my grandma when they need it. So those things are important to

Jamila Souffrant 56:21

me. Yes, I do want to just, um, step back, just to define some of these terms, just in case, it's like, the first time for some people, normally, this will be the first time they are listening and hearing about financial independence. And this going to, this is going to start their journey, which is so exciting. But when you're referring to fat fire, there's a different terms in the fire movement, the financial independence, retire, early movement, something called Lean fire, like normal fire, and then quote, unquote, fat fire, which I'm assuming probably, probably need to change the name of that, but just means, based on how you want to live. So someone who's living super, like frugal, who doesn't need a lot of money, like, maybe they're aiming for a lean fire, meaning they just need just enough money to take care of, like, their basic expenses. And then, like, maybe the normal Fire, fire is just like your number, the amount of money you're trying to save and invest in your investment accounts that take care of, like your average lifestyle. So nothing, you know, super, super frugal, but nothing too luxurious, like you're not, you know, maybe you're not going taking first class trips, unless you're travel hacking, perhaps, right? And then the fat, quote, unquote fat fire, or larger fire, is more of you are indulging, and you know, spending more in areas that you want to. So maybe that includes first class flights or living in a nicer house or having higher expenses. And so you want the opportunity for yourself to have the option of spending more if you want to, which is why you're saying you'll, you'll work past your kind of baseline fire number if you reach it by 40. And it's the way that I think it's interesting to look at it, because once you do hit like or know what your number is, potentially you can choose to work past that or not. It's a trade off. Worth it, right? Is working longer past what I need to work. Is it worth it that I want to spend extra money on doing this thing, and sometimes it's yes, like, I actually want to live this lifestyle, and it's worth working the extra hours or years to do that. Now you mentioned something helping your mom, and you were able to do something really extraordinary for her, and I love you to share what you're able to do for her now that you are so like, secure in your financial journey. Yes, I'm

Norly Jean-Charles 58:23

mama's girl through and through. One of the things I used to say when I was a child, like I was a Pisces, I was very emotionally attuned, so I saw the sacrifices that my mother made for me. One of the things that happened when I went to prep for PrEP was I did get a full ride, but I had to pay some money, and my mom would work two or three jobs to pay that money. And you talked about students in college that took out loans for their living. My loans were covered my housing, but my mom still helped me by giving me money to buy books. And sometimes She'd cook food from Flatbush, drive up, give it to me at Columbia. And I also did a work study. I worked while I was at Columbia, so even though she's always helped me. And so one of the things that I always said, she always dreamed she wanted to become a doctor. She had kids before, and she didn't think she could go to medical school, so she became a nurse. But one of her dreams was, she's like, I want my like, American dream. I want like, my white picket fence. So during the I'm getting emotional during the pandemic, I saw that, you know, the interest rates were low, and one of the things that my mom said was, you know, Brooklyn is incredibly, incredibly expensive, and my mom is getting older. And I was thinking, you know, maybe we can buy a mother daughter house in Canarsie and I'll live at the bottom. But I was like, I don't think that's going to make me happy. I like where I'm living now, my mom told me that she wouldn't mind owning a home in Florida. There's a Haitian community in Florida. It's nice. It reminds her of Haiti. It's more stable. So I was looking around, and I was like, because I know my mom's rent, my mom tells me about her finances, and I saw that if we came under a certain price point. So we could actually find a home there. That would basically be the amount of the rent that she is paying in Brooklyn. So I suggested to her, I said, Would you move actually? Let me go back in the story. I switched jobs during the pandemic. I'm a securities attorney, and there was a huge boom in securities during the pandemic, and I was able to switch jobs. And I was actually on the phone with one of my girlfriends after I got an offer, and she was like, did you ask for your bonus up front? And I was like, What are you talking about? If they usually just prorate your bonus? She's like, No, ask for it up front. Say that you know you're leaving your job and you're not gonna get the bonus that you are that you usually get annually. So ask for your bonus up front. And I was like, okay, and when I asked for my bonus up front, I saw that that bonus could be a down payment. So I called my mother, and I was like, listen, you're always talking about your white picket fence. I asked for my bonus up front. We can't afford something in New York, but we can afford something in the Miami area, in the Fort Lauderdale area, or in the West Palm Beach area. Would you be willing to buy a house there? And she was like, yes. And so I was able to, and I always thank my girlfriend for telling me that, because I was not going to ask. I did not know to ask. She told me to do that. And with that down payment, I was able to help my mom achieve her American dream and buy her first home in Florida.

Jamila Souffrant 1:01:25

Wow. That is amazing. What an amazing story. And, you know, a testament to how she poured into you and how now that allows you to pour into her and give, not even return, right? The Favorites, not like, it's in, you know, this for that, it's more just like, this is, like, the cycle of love and finances, and like, having healthy finances enough to do that and secure enough job to be able to do that, and so, so now she has her home in Florida, and she's also, I think you said in what she had mentioned before, she's still in New York, so she's able to, kind of like, live that I'm going down to, You know, Florida for what I want, which is such an amazing thing to be able to do.

Norly Jean-Charles 1:02:04

Yes, I was very proud when I was able to do that, because one of the things that growing up, because we lost our father so young, and we were young women growing up in the 90s, like, I don't know if people remember like the 80s or 90s in New York, but it was like the time of rampant teenage pregnancy and stereotypes that you're going to get pregnant, and they were like, Oh, she has two girls. They don't have a father. What's going to happen with them? And so just I remember hearing that back talk, I just never said anything about it, but just being able to show people that, no, my mom poured into me. My grandmother poured into me. I didn't have a father growing up, but these women gave me what I needed and strengthened me so much that I was able to succeed that. And I've got her house, and I got her her American dream, and I was really proud to do that for her, because I know, I know she struggled. I know she struggled because it was

Jamila Souffrant 1:02:55

hard. Oh my gosh, that's so amazing. Okay, gnarly. I know that you're not, you don't have, like, a public out facing social media, right? No, I don't. Okay. So I think what I would definitely want to do is, like, follow up with you, like, when you do reach your financial independence number, have you back on the show, hopefully, journey to launch will still be going by. Then I'll be, I'll be retired and doing it from the beach. Of course, I love to keep in touch and hear how things are going. I know someone you dropped so many like gems in this interview, and I hope anyone listening to this pick something up that they can practically use and be inspired by. Thank you so much for sharing your story and coming on the show.

Norly Jean-Charles 1:03:34

Thank you.

Speaker 1 1:03:35

I appreciate it. Don't forget you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this, and you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch.com/jumpstart

Speaker 1 1:03:56

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