Episode 384: Love & Money: How They Got On The Same Page To Pay Off $32,000 Of Debt W/ LeDo & Shameka McDowell REWIND

LeDo McDowell 0:02

You being transparent helped me to be able to approach her because, you know, like just saying, okay, create, like a date night, and then, you know, you can talk about finances and that space and so that, that's how I kind of started to include her in t minus 10 seconds. Welcome to the journey to launch podcast with your host Jamila souffrant as a money expert who walks her talk she helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in 54321,

Speaker 1 0:40

you. One,

Jamila Souffrant 0:46

hey, hey, hey, journeyers, welcome to the journey. To launch podcast. Quick note, for the next couple months, I'll be sharing some rewind episodes that were previously aired on the podcast but were also mentioned as case studies in my book, Your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness. One of the things I wanted to do with the book is not only share my personal story in an effort for you, the reader, hopefully you're a reader or will be to feel connected to the story and inspired, but I wanted to also share other people's stories and journeys, and to bring more diversity different starting points and scenarios that could be relatable to more people. So this first batch of episodes you'll hear are based on the topic of people paying off debt. The group of episodes after that will be rewind episodes based on people who are on the financial independence journey from various starting points. And we'll close out the series of rewinds with some fan favorite episodes. Again, all of these episodes and interviewees were mentioned in my book your journey to financial freedom, which is available now wherever books are sold, Amazon, Walmart, Barnes and Noble target, you name it your local book seller or book shop. Now you can head over to your journey to financial freedom.com

to get your copy and see all the places you can buy it. Now let's get into some debt payoff. Focus. Episodes. Please enjoy if you want the episode, show notes for this episode, go to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode in the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned, and so much more also, whether you are an OG journeyer or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial Freedom journey. It includes the top episodes to listen to, stages to go through to reach financial, freedom, resources and so much more you can go to journey to launch.com/jumpstart

to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Hey, hey, hey, journeyers, welcome to the journey to launch podcast. If you're completely new to the podcast, welcome. Take a seat. Buckle up, because we are about to blast off to financial freedom. And if you are a returning journeyer and listener, thank you so much for coming back. Obviously you must like something that's happening here, so that's awesome, and I'm really excited for you to be here this week. So this week is Valentine's Day. Well, Valentine's Day is falling in the week that this episode comes out. And I thought, You know what I should do a topic on relationships and money, love and money. Because I know that if you are currently in a relationship, whether you're just dating or married, the partner that you're with, and depending on if they're on the path with you to paying off debt and saving and investing and reaching financial freedom, that really affects whatever you're going through in your journey. And so I was all gonna think about bringing my husband back on. So my husband, he's been on the podcast before. So if you are a long time listener, meaning like you've been here from the beginning, you may have remembered he was on episode 20. So after you listen to this episode, go back and listen to episode 20. That's journey to launch.com/episode

20, if you want to hear myself and my husband talk about what he feels about our journey and money back then. And so I was thinking about doing like an update, and having him come back on. And then I came across this amazing Instagram post so Lido, who is a journeyer, and he's been listening to this podcast for a very long time, he tagged me in a post about he and his wife and how they paid off tons of debt. And it wasn't just that they paid off debt, because I, you know, I see that often where people pay off debt, and it's amazing, but it was just the realness of his posts where he talked about all the things that they went through and how they're still on the journey and still figuring it out, and all the tough conversations that they had to have to get to that point. And I was like, You know what? I'm gonna bring Lido and his amazing wife, Shamika, on the podcast, because I figured, how amazing is it to hear from a couple.

The real deal of a couple of what they're going through, how they manage to get on the same page. Are still getting on the same page when it comes to money and goals. Because I get asked that a lot about, you know, how do I talk to my partner? They're not fully on board. We have different mindsets about money. So this, I think, will be a wonderful, wonderful conversation to listen to with your partner. Do you want to give them a hint if they're not on board yet, or just in general, for maybe preparing for when you do have a partner? So this is episode 139 so if you want episode show notes for this, go to journey to launch.com/episode

139

I'm really excited to have you listened in on this conversation? And you know, I'm really laid back interviewer, so I always tell my guests, Just be yourselves. And so that's what this is. It's just a real conversation between myself and a couple who really got vulnerable and shared their struggles and accomplishments on their journey to financial freedom. Now if you are digging this episode, let us know. Tag me at journey to launch. Give some comments. What you loved about it, your biggest takeaway, share it with your family and friends. And of course, if you want to listen to this with your partner, that's even better. Now, of course, if you're listening to this in Apple podcast, that's that purple app on your phone, you can rate, review and subscribe so that you don't miss an episode. And then, of course, if you listen to it anywhere else, that's fine too. You can subscribe wherever you listen, and then just continue to tell your family and friends. Okay, without further ado, let's hop into this amazing episode.

Okay, journeyers, I have a special treat. I think it's a special treat because I am talking to a couple who I met via basically Instagram, right? Lido. You said I can call you Lido, right? Yes, correct. Lido and his wife, Shamika. And I just wanted to give a little background, because I think it's important to kind of set the stage. But I was talking about before I press record that I wanted to do kind of a Valentine's Day episode, and originally I was gonna, like bring my husband back on, which I'm sure he's disappointed about to kind of talk about our finances. But then I saw your post Lido, where you tagged me and just a couple other resources, but you talked about your journey to paying off debt. And what stood out for me about your post is one, like, I always see you commenting on my post. I knew you were a podcast listener and a journeyer, and then, like, you were just so real with you and your wife's journey to paying off $32,000

of debt and the struggles of it, and that you're still in the midst of it. And I really wanted to showcase, like, what it's really like for couples to talk about money to get through money issues or pay off debt, because I know so many people right now listening are in a relationship with someone or maybe not, and it's something that they may come across, and I think it's just helpful to have these open conversations. So I'm so happy that you guys are here. Thanks for having us. Definitely great to be here. Lita, you listen to the podcast. Miss Shamika, you don't. And I was like, actually, that's perfect, because I think that's like, how basically, like couples work, like one person maybe more, bringing the other person the information. And so I thought that we can kind of start there on where you guys are currently financially. Like, what you did, I kind of mentioned it, but like, how much debt you paid off and what got you to this point? Okay, so we recently, since I started to track our spending and budgeting, we paid off $32,000

LeDo McDowell 8:29

in the last 18 months. Currently, we're at a positive net worth, around 100,000

$1,000 and we got here pretty much I found a podcast. A friend told me about the podcast, and at this time, we had recently relocated from Houston to Dallas, which we are located now, and we had saved money, you know, at times, not really with the mindset of paying off debt or investing, but just, you know, we like to travel. So we would say, hey, let's save up, you know, $20,000 by the end of the year. And so we would, you know, reach that goal. Well, just kind of getting introduced to the podcast and learning about the fire movement and the fire movement, my juices just got to flowing. So I was like, Hey, I would come home and tell the wife, like, there's this great thing that's going on, like you need to, we need to talk about this. And she wasn't very receptive. I didn't know how to feel about that at the time, and there was a lot of struggles that I'm sure we'll get into. But we pretty much got here because we realized that we are on the same team, and even though we may not necessarily feel the same way about our finances, we dream together and we set goals together. So how do we get there? May not always align, but the fact that we are working toward the same goals is always kind of in the forefront of our minds. It always brings you kind of back.

Jamila Souffrant 10:00

To together till east to discuss, to the conversation. So Shamika, I'm curious. Like, so when he Do you remember those moments when he first started coming back and, like, kind of throwing this on you, like, hey, like, we should do something differently. Do you remember those conversations at first and how you felt I did, and to be honest, so I was handling the finances, and we always, you know, pay the bills on time. We always had a health, you know, we say it now, healthy amount of debt, nothing exorbitant. We always, you know, if we had a big vacation, we would pay it off very quickly. So we kind of had this system down. So to be honest, I felt a little,

Shameka McDowell 10:40

maybe a little offended, like, Well, it's been working, so what's going on now? But seeing his his enthusiasm, really brought me on board with it, seeing his dedication. Because, truth be told, you know, he'll come to me with some ideas, and he's like, on fire with it for maybe a month or two. And I'm like, okay, yeah, babe, so I'll encourage it, but then it might fall off, or, you know, have ebbs and flows. But he was really dedicated to this, and he was like, I have dreams for us, and I really want to do this, so I couldn't help but get on board.

Jamila Souffrant 11:21

Now. How long at that point were you guys, like, together? Because I'm wondering, how were you always kind of the one in charge of the finances, and here he comes, kind of like, along, like, with a new idea. So how long was that kind of like, operating for you, that system that you guys had previously probably about six years, yeah, about five or six years. Yeah, we met in 2006 and so, you know, we dated off and on. We got married in 2012

LeDo McDowell 11:46

this was about, yeah, 2018 so about six years,

Jamila Souffrant 11:50

yeah. And it's funny, because, like, typically, not typically, I don't know what, like, the typical thing is, but I would assume sometimes that the person who comes across like and gets really invigorated by financial independence and, like, really into podcasts is like the one that's originally running the finances, or at least, kind of manning that kind of ship. But it seems like it was like the opposite. So at what point, I guess, Shamika, were you just like, all right, um, this seems like he's really serious about this, that you were like, all right, let me listen. Let's maybe do something differently. We paid off probably a good chunk. Just using the old system, we paid off a good chunk of our debt. But then just seeing that and seeing how enthusiastic he was about it again, really made me sit down and say, Okay, let me at least consider it a different way, because I don't know everything, and what he's bringing to me is really good advice, so let me at least meet him halfway. We had just gone on vacation at the time, and he was so concerned about money, but seeing him in the moment saying, okay, yes, we do need this vacation and let me relax and not be so stringent about what we're spending and enjoy the moment I saw his dedication to that. So I said, Well, again, let me meet him halfway. So I signed us up for a Dave Ramsey course Financial Peace University. And that was kind of my gift to him to say, you know, I'm in this with you now. I'm curious like you talk about the old system. And so it seems like the old system was like working, because you guys are managing your debt. I heard you say earlier, like you kind of had a healthier or hearty amount of debt. So what was that debt comprised of? So I had a $5,000 loan that we paid off pretty quickly. We had the cars, but along the way, we would have hiccups like so we had a house and our AC went out, so we had to replace the air conditioner on that. That was a

LeDo McDowell 13:53

that was a summer,

Shameka McDowell 13:55

so we had to deal with that we had living in Houston. You know, we're always having flooding and hurricanes. So we have would have roof leaks that we would have to pay for along the way, while we were on top of the spending, we would have those hiccups, those major financial hiccups along the way that would kind of throw a monkey wrench in everything. So aside from the car payments and, you know, the mortgage, my student loans, his student loans, my student loans, that credit card and the credit card? Yeah, yeah, just one credit card.

Jamila Souffrant 14:27

Yeah. Did you guys work with a budget before finding out? Like the old system was it operated on a budget? Or just like you had money in and you just spent money as it

Shameka McDowell 14:36

so we sat down at the beginning and kind of, did you know the old Excel spreadsheet kind of method, okay, this is what, what's coming in. This is what's going out, but not being as stringent on down to the penny, what was going out. You don't know about it, but I had,

LeDo McDowell 14:55

I'm looking at her like

Shameka McDowell 14:57

we did, but like I said, we. Weren't meeting every week, discussing it or anything. We just knew, Okay, the money that we were bringing in, what money was allocated for bills, and what we had left over as plate money, yeah,

LeDo McDowell 15:11

because before we got married, I was living in Dallas, she was living in Houston, and so we had like, this long distance relationship. So we just talked about everything. I bought this book and had like 500 questions that you should ask your, you know, the person that you're thinking about marrying. And so we, you know, we thought that we combed through finances pretty well.

And of course, you know, once you get into marriage, you realize that, you know, you can never fully prepare for all of the things that come with it, right? But, you know, I talked about my relationship with money. She talked about her relationship with money coming into the marriage prior. I don't know if this is the time that I should talk about this, but outside of my student loan, the only debt that I had was a dealer charge card. And I got that my senior of high school, I think, had like, an $800 limit. And throughout the course of college, I maxed it out, and I think it had gotten up to maybe 1600 credit limit, and that traumatized me, like with dealing with credit. So my first job out of college, I paid it off, and I just closed it out, not knowing you know about credit history and how that affects. You know your your credit score, and so I didn't operate with credit cards. Coming into the marriage, she, on the other hand, had a credit card. And so I wasn't really a high earner during those years, you know, I just had, like, a different view on money. My thing was, I'm not money motivated. And I told her that, like, I don't love money. Hopefully you can accept the fact that, you know, that's not what drives me. I love working in the community. I love working with kids, you know, and so I don't just want to be consumed with how much money I make. So that, that was my spiel to her going into the marriage, right? And she was more, I guess you were more on the corporate Yeah, I was on the corporate ladder, not intentionally, but you want to go to school and love what you're doing, and I happen to do that, and it kind of moved me up the ladder. So the more money that was coming in, I think we kind of got more comfortable with that kind of lifestyle. So it wasn't a matter of spending every dollar. But we did enjoy ourselves. We ate

Jamila Souffrant 17:27

like when I finally saw it in a pie chart, I was like, wow, like it was rivaling our living mortgage, right, right. Can you share what you what your line of work is, Shamika and Lido? So I am in right now software. I originally started in oil and gas, mainly in the communications space. So I've been everything from a communication specialist to a technical writer to a change management manager. So that kind of runs the gamut of what I do, yeah, and I teach fourth grade math and science. Nice. You're a teacher just like my husband, yeah.

So actually, all right, so you I want to get to eating. I'm assuming you got, are you guys, like, seeing, like, without kids? Yes, right, okay, because, like, I remember before my husband and I had kids, that's where a lot of our money went to also going out to eat, and it was way easier before the kids so but stepping back kind of into your motivation, I love that you actually said Lido that money wasn't a motivating factor for you. Like, you knew you weren't going into corporate America or wanted to, like, work towards, like, a six figure. I don't know career. You know, some people like that's like me. I just knew I wanted to make money, so I went after that Shamika. Like, for you, you were on that track when you first met and you realized that about him, did that like, give you pause, or you just like, you know, I love him. Like, this is just that doesn't matter. We'll make it work. I think I had enough ambition for the both of us. Now, money was never my motivating factor. I just knew that coming up and growing up, that we lived kind of comfortably. So I just knew that I wanted at least that I wasn't into, you know, flashy things or an exorbitant lifestyle. So I just wanted to be comfortable. Him saying that never really gave me pause

now when you are now talking about kind of coming to the space Lita, like, realizing, okay, there's something else like, out there, so don't call financial independence, like, we don't have to be on this kind of hamster wheel of just spending what's coming in and kind of like always trying to keep up. Like, what were the changes now, right? So you had the old system, so you and then you, you got into Dave Ramsey, which I always think is a great first step for people who are looking to for the entryway. But what were some of the changes that you started to make? And then we could talk a little bit about the other things you started to do. I think the first change was my daily commute. I would listen to music, right? That was just kind of my stress reliever.

LeDo McDowell 20:00

Were going to work, or like leaving work, and so that time began to be filled with podcasts and audiobooks and researching information, just dealing with finances. And my wife has always out earned me, and that's never been a problem in our marriage. I've never felt any any type of way about it, but I always have wanted to become be in a place where, if we were to have kids, that she would not have to work, because this kind of how I grew up. Once my mom had me, she stopped working, and so she was always there for me. And so I wanted to be in a position to provide the same thing for my family, and I knew that, you know, with my income, I was like, well, something has to change here. And so once I knew that, you know, just being intentional about budgeting and saving and investing, that that was a way that I could

Jamila Souffrant 20:59

just make sure that my family was more secure in the future. Mm, hmm. And something, you know, I just something you just said, because, you know, at first when you said, like, money wasn't like, a motivating factor for you. And like, I think at the end of the day, like, really, like, what money provides is options and like, freedom. And so like, I think most people, even if they say, like, they want to go after, or they're chasing money like I knew I wanted to go after and make as much as I could. I really wanted, like, freedom, because at the end of the day, that's what you wanted, and what you realized is what you ultimately wanted. It wasn't about necessarily the flashy stuff like that could be a byproduct of all that, but it was really about the opportunities that you could provide for yourself and your family, definitely, and neither one of us have been big spenders. Still aren't big spenders. I remember early on in the marriage, she she was nervous. I could tell she was nervous. She came in with a bag, and it was from Target, I think, and she had spent like 40 something dollars on clothes, and she was like, Don't get mad at me. And I'm looking like you spent $40 at Target. You're good. Like, if that's what I have to worry about, like, have it, we just don't spend a lot. We don't really recommend, like, the things that we weren't being intentional about, which were our date nights. Because we, man, we decided we started having date night, I think early in the marriage, about year one or two, it was like, Okay, we really want to continue this dating thing, because I'm really big on researching, and a lot of times I have analysis paralysis, and I just figure out, like, what's the worst case scenario? Even when I got into teaching, it's like, okay, what am I getting myself into? And I knew that there was a high divorce rate with teachers, and just a lot of things that, like, financially, teachers get into binds. So before I jump into something, I want to make sure that I'm preparing myself for that. So I wanted to date her, and we would do weekly date nights, and we just weren't considering what we were spending, like, right? We could go on a 20 like, a 20 something dollar date, and we would have just much fun, but then we'll go spend like, $70 $80 at a restaurant, and we wouldn't think twice about it, because we knew we had the finances, right. And you know, when you go back and you add that stuff up, you're like, wow, ridiculous. This is crazy. Yeah. So the change was Okay, babe. Like, I and you, you like, were so instrumental, because you being transparent, helped me to be able to approach her because, you know, like just saying, okay, create, like, a date night, and then, you know, you can talk about finances in that space. And so that, that's how I kind of started to include her in, you know, I was like, Okay, babe, let's, you know, clear the schedule. We're gonna spend some time together. And we always would meet, just kind of have chickens, have check ins about the marriage. So I was like, how about we? You know, talk about finances. And that seemed to work in bite sized pieces. I could tell when she was like, Okay, this is enough. And I would bag off

after buying Dave Ramsey. So, you know, Dave Ramsey's all about getting out of debt. You're in Dave Ramsey, or listening to that kind of program, but then also listening to a lot of podcasts, or doing that self learning that I love, that I started to do in the beginning. And what else did you start doing? So I'm assuming you started to budget and cut things out and back like, what did that look like?

LeDo McDowell 24:19

Yes. So really, to clear something up. Dave Ramsey was her coming into the fold. So that was like, maybe, what, four or five months ago? No,

Shameka McDowell 24:28

no, no, that was about a year ago.

LeDo McDowell 24:30

No, Dave Ramsey was we started that in September. Remember,

Shameka McDowell 24:34

we wanted to join the class. They had, like, a February class, and we couldn't get into that one. So we were saying, Well, if it comes back around, then we'll join again. Okay,

LeDo McDowell 24:45

yeah, but we still had a lot of struggles. You weren't on board yet,

Jamila Souffrant 24:48

right? You know, I'm smiling as you guys are talking, trying to recollect, like, recollect the actual dates. Because I'm like, this would be so me and my husband if we were trying to, like, think back on something.

LeDo McDowell 24:57

Yeah. So what? Happened was I became very intentional about what I was spending, because I was like, I can't control her, but at least we can kind of just figure out, like, what are our expenses, and then where's the extra money going? And so it was a slow grind with trying to reel her in, because it seemed like she she wasn't spending money at first, but then when I started talking about budgeting, I guess she felt like I was trying to put a clamp on her so she was spending. Was spending more money. And that was just a perception

Shameka McDowell 25:24

thing. It just felt like I was spending more money. Well,

Jamila Souffrant 25:28

I think this is actually important to note, because, again, I wanted to have this conversation, because I know for a fact that there are couples or one person, one half of the couple listening and wanting to kind of get on the same page. So it seems like Perception is everything, right? So Lido, you felt like when you started to get more on the path of financial independence, and, like, getting serious about it, it was like you felt like you were noticing more spending. And she's just like, actually, that's not what was happening. Was perception. So I wanted to just talk about that. So Shamika, do you remember like, those moments, like, was it really more of like, Hey, you're just now paying attention to this, but I've been kind of doing this all along. There's nothing really that much different. Or what was that like?

Shameka McDowell 26:07

I think so I think you summed it up perfectly. And to be totally transparent, during this 18 month period, we were doing IVF, so that was a big financial strain as well, and we were helping out family members along the way. So, you know, we had those additional financial stresses on an already strained conversation about finances. Yes, that kind of exasperated our talks. And so it I think that nothing really changed as far as my spending habits or what was going out? It was just that we had these other additional stressors that kind of blew up our conversations. Yeah, I

LeDo McDowell 26:51

would agree with that. I think maybe me kind of pulling back from spending and just maybe seeing her just going about her normal spending habits. Maybe I was a little bit you were about that. Because I'm like, Okay, I thought we were, you know. And of course, you didn't buy in from the beginning. So I've bought in completely. And I'm like, whatever I need to do, you know, to get here. And she's just like, coming in every time she would bring a bag in the house, so upset, you know. And then I had to realize that there's a transfer in energy, in marriage. I can't expect for her to, you know, listen to to what I have to offer, or even get on board if I'm always making her feel like she's doing something wrong. And the way that I was thinking about it, she was like, just tell me what I can spend, and I can operate like that. And I was like, Well, no, if you're going to be spending this on hair care products, and you know, we need to put it down to the penny. And she was like, No, I don't want to do that. And it took me a while to be like, Okay, let's work together and not this is what I learned on the podcast, or this is what I heard and read in the book. Let's sit down and make this our budget, and not just my budget, because now I did try to invite her in on creating a budget and that she was not having it. Yeah, I didn't

Shameka McDowell 28:05

want any parts of it. Why not? Is because his way is not my way, and so the way that he was trying to break it down and upkeep It was totally not working for me. If nothing else, Dave Ramsey gave us every dollar, and that app has been just instrumental in just the way that we've been keeping up our budget. Because I am in the software industry. I'm always working with apps. I love technology, so having it literally at my fingertips, knowing that dollar amount that I can't go over has been tremendous for me, because, like he said, I would tell him, just tell me the bounds of my spending, just give me a number, and I will not go over it, whereas he wanted to break it down to the penny. And I think what this app has done is kind of meld, melded those two things together. So he has his down to the penny, but I also have my, just give me my number. Yeah, and I do want

Jamila Souffrant 29:05

to just take a moment and talk about the concept of spending every dollar. So every dollar is, I know Dave Ramsey's like system and budgeting program. I like and use YNAB, and it's similar to that, where, you know, it's really making you allocate every dollar. And what I love about what you just said is that what you thought budgeting should be, had different ways about going about it, methodologies. And then you you did finally come to a place where you could agree upon an app or just a system that worked. And I think a lot of times like that could be like the biggest sticking point, like they think they're so far apart on on their goals or what they want. And it's really not that it's just like the system, and sometimes, like, it does take trying different systems, and again, like sitting down and like having, like, the difficult, annoying conversations until you get it right. But I love that you did come together and you actually saw like, what was keeping you stuck or away from his method, like you just didn't want to be. So confined to it. And that's the thing, too. So many couples, like, one person wants to go all in, you know, like, I want to go hard. I want to, like, get rid of this debt tomorrow, and somebody else might be, well, I'm okay. I want to get rid of it, but, like, I'm not trying to sacrifice my life while doing it, right? So it's like, finding that happy medium,

Shameka McDowell 30:17

yeah, and it was definitely that he went so hard and all in, and I had to kind of break it down in an analogy is like, look, I love sci fi movies, but I don't expect you to come with me to see every single sci fi movie you may like, you know, one or two that I drag you along with, but I don't expect you to love everything about it. So I kind of told them, like, share the great things that you're excited about with me, and I'll take the pieces and kind of digest it on my own, and we can come back together and kind of create our own system. So I think that's what's been happening over the past few months.

Jamila Souffrant 30:59

And so with that, you were able to pay off the $32,000 in 18 months,

LeDo McDowell 31:04

right? Yes, and I'll say, I keep referencing that Dave Ramsey came, like, a year into this process, because I tried YNAB at first, because everything that you said, I was like, I'm on it. So I tried YNAB. I did it like, I think it was like a two month free trial or something like that, and I'm showing her, and this was extremely early, she was like, Nope, don't like it. And the only thing that I had trouble with with them was, like, I couldn't figure out the credit cards that just I bought into a credit card. Like, okay, let's get a credit card. I got a credit card to, like, earn points, and, you know, I just couldn't figure out how to make that work, like, because, you know, I was really using a credit card to gain the point, so I didn't know how to input that. And, yeah, I was new to it, so I just went to, I found the Excel spreadsheet, and I would do that, and I would, like, write it on a sheet of I would write everything on a sheet of paper, and then I would put it into the spreadsheet. And so she was just, like, not having any of that. She's like, it's

Jamila Souffrant 32:05

too complicated. Like, yeah, right, yeah, because I'm a numbers person, right? And

Shameka McDowell 32:09

here I am working with engineers all day who spreadsheets are their jam. And I'm like, I'm I'm the creative one. I'm not having any of that. So, right? That's not gonna work for me.

Jamila Souffrant 32:23

Hi, Jamila here, host of this podcast and author of the book, your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness. Just a few years ago, I was in a job I didn't like, with a long commute, feeling stuck. I knew there had to be a different, better way then I found the pathway to financial freedom and financial independence. Today, I have more money options and freedom than I ever thought was possible, and in my book your journey to financial freedom, I'll show you how you can achieve that too. You'll learn how to spend and save responsibly, all while enjoying that spicy Margarita and exercise guacamole determine where you are on the journey and evaluate your spending and saving goals accordingly. Quit your job, retire early or reach financial independence. My book, your journey to financial freedom, a step by step guide to achieving wealth and happiness, is out now and available on Amazon, bookshop.org, Barnes and Noble and more, you can leave and listen to the audiobook narrated by me, go to your journey to financial freedom.com to get a free bonus when you order the book and see all the places to buy it once again, go to your journey to financial freedom.com so when you finally did find the system network that allowed you to really get hyper focused on the debt. So what debt did the $32,000 like comprise of? What was that that you paid off

LeDo McDowell 33:47

her car? My I had three separate student loans that maybe they totaled about maybe $9,000 at the time. Originally started out at like 13 five, and then she had a credit card that we would use, like, for trips, and then we would pay down. But we it was Max, I think it was, like, at 12, and so, yeah, that that's pretty much all of all of the debt that we had, not considering our home that we're renting right now. But I found a debt calculator, debt reducing calculator, and it had, like, the Avalanche method and the snowball method. And I was like, avalanche all the way, you know, like, the numbers make sense for avalanche. I was like, I don't need to see the small ones roll off. Like, this is where most of the interest is coming from. Even though it wasn't like, a big difference. I was just like, yeah, we can save $200 let's do it

Jamila Souffrant 34:42

right. And let me just jump in, just in case anyone's like, just coming in, like, and not really understanding that. But the Avalanche Method is when you're paying off the highest interest rate first debt. So you know, you add up all you do, get all your debt listed out, and you sort it by highest interest rate to lowest interest rate debt. Debt, and then you can also sort it by lowest balance debt to highest balance debt. So when you choose to pay off the highest interest rate, it's called the Avalanche Method, when you choose to pay off the lowest balance that's called the snowball method. And like, they're typically like different reasons why you may want to go with both. Technically, you save more money and interest by doing the Avalanche method, because you're paying off the highest interest first. But some people like to start with the snowball to get that momentum going. So you said for you, it was about, okay, let me look at the highest interest rate. And that's what you tackled first.

LeDo McDowell 35:29

Yeah, that's what I tackled first. She was pretty much on board with it. And then the second thing was, okay, let's cut expenses. So where could we cut expenses? So, oh, man, like, Okay, if we get rid of Netflix this month, like, and we, you know, get Sling TV. Can we cut this, you know? So we had cable maybe one time since we've been married, and it was cost effective because it was kind of bundled with our internet. So like, cutting the card subscriptions, like canceling subscriptions that were just rolling on and on and on that we weren't using and then that we got to a point where it's like, okay, we really can't cut anymore. So then I'm like, since we relocated, we've been living in apartments. And so I knew leaving a home and like a house, and then coming up here and live in apartments, I kind of allowed her to have her away at choosing apartments, even though, like, the apartments that I lived in when I was single were way different from, like, what? But I'm, like, a married man, and so, like, I'm looking at how much we're paying, though, and I'm like, man, we're paying more than, you know, our mortgage. And so it was okay, babe, the second time we chose an appointment, I was like, Okay, here's some options. And we ended up choosing one. It still was, like, way too much for me. But I was like, Okay, we're cutting the compromising right, compromising right, and then, like, so now we fully downsize, like she said she's been on board, and we're in a one bedroom now. And, yeah, we're safe, like, from where we just came from. We're saving like, $350 a month just on rent.

Jamila Souffrant 37:06

And, you know, that's the thing too. Like, if you're looking at your budget, that's the thing together. When you're single and you, like, you can make a choice, like, all right, I'm gonna, like, go live in basement of somewhere, or get roommates. Like, it's, it's only one person to convince, and that's yourself. But then when you have, like, a partner, and then, I mean, when you add kids in, that's even harder. So kind of, like, make those decisions, then you can do those kind of things, but it takes, like, the conversations, but cutting the living expenses and food and like transportation are the, like, the biggest cuts you can make, but they're also, like, the most uncomfortable for a lot of people. True,

LeDo McDowell 37:40

and I came into the marriage with a car that I bought, really a little bit after we first started dating, like 1314, years ago, my first card I purchased. I purchased the cash, and that was one of the best financial decisions that I made, because soon after, you know, was 2000 what? 2008 2009 and I was wanting to buy a brand new Chevy Silverado, and I was going to spend all of my cash that I had saved. I think I saved, like, $15,000 working my first job because I stayed at home, my parents and I decided to buy a five year old Toyota Camry. And I loved that car. She hated it. I just found out, like in recent years, that she hated it, and it

Shameka McDowell 38:21

was on his last leg. It had to go.

LeDo McDowell 38:24

I could have got another five years out of that car. And so, yeah, so what actually, we when we paid off our truck, I had a wreck. And, you know, I was knocked off the road. I had a tree. It was totaled, and we just paid it off. Yeah, we had just paid it off, like, in months. And so I was like, You know what? I think they gave us $8,000 for it. And I was like, I want to just buy something for 5000 because, you know, everybody's like, $5,000 cash car, and I'm like, I'm trying to find it. And she was like, not impressed with what I was looking at. And so I compromised, but I think I made a good decision, and it was just kind of like, down to the wire, because we had had this rental car, and they stopped paying for it, and she was like, you have to get something. And the cars I was looking at, I was like, so I ended up, you know, getting the car that I got. I got a 2010 Ford Fusion, a hybrid. I was like, we're going to save on gas, and I think we end up just having to pay like, 300 extra dollars.

Shameka McDowell 39:23

Not even that, just $100 yeah, so

Jamila Souffrant 39:26

how much was that car?

LeDo McDowell 39:27

It was like, 8300

Jamila Souffrant 39:28

and you pay cash. And I think that's just important to note, because people will also say, like, Where can I find a reliable five to $8,000 car, like that kind of comes up when people are are talking about trying to buy a car, versus, like, the more expensive ones that look better or more flashier, but for the place that you're in financially, it's just not the best decision. Yeah,

LeDo McDowell 39:48

and I like to believe, even if I was financially independent right now, I still drive something like that. Like my first car out of high school was like a 1986 civic CRX. And. I was everywhere that everybody else was. So, like, I got over there quick. So I'm not a really big car person.

Jamila Souffrant 40:05

Shamika is like, well, I am, and I'm,

Shameka McDowell 40:11

I do like a nice car. It doesn't have to be the top of the line, but I do enjoy a nice car well,

Jamila Souffrant 40:16

and it's fine. I think, you know, it's okay for people to have different wants and goals. I mean, if you think the same, that can work like, really well. But I know again, like, for myself and my husband, like, I don't care. When I was in my 20s, I cared about my car, so I spent a lot of money and got a luxury car. And now I don't care as much. I know my husband, though, cares. So I always say I want to, like, get him like, if we get to that point we have enough money, I'd love to, like, get him the nice car again, because I know he cares about that, right? And I think it's okay to have a difference of wants and dreams and opinions, as long as, like, you can come together and do what's best for the right now, right? Like, right now, it would not make sense for us to get a luxury car. Like, we can't afford that, but if we could, why not? Kind of feeling,

LeDo McDowell 40:58

definitely, and the IVF situation has really been, like, a really big point in our marriage, like, I think we've been trying now for about seven years. Yeah, seven years, and we were one of the first out of, like, my circle of friends, because I have, like, a lot of close friends, and I was, we were one of the first couples to get married, and so a lot of our friends got married after us, and they're having kids now. And that's, you know, been hard with us, because at times we're like, okay, we want to do IVF, okay. Wanted. Like, we're tired. Her body needs a rest. And like, so that coupled into trying to get our finances in order has really added the extra strain just on the marriage. So we paid out of pocket. I think it was right around it. It was maybe a few months into us budgeting, yeah, we just found out, like we had to pay like 10, over $10,000 yeah,

Shameka McDowell 41:57

which is, you know, reasonable. We do have pretty good health insurance coverage for it, but when you're trying to, you know, pay off debt, it was a big strain on us, yeah,

Jamila Souffrant 42:09

yeah, especially

LeDo McDowell 42:10

when one person feels more strongly about that than the other, that that was definitely a test, yeah, yeah.

Jamila Souffrant 42:17

And, I mean, I can imagine, and this is like, the thing, again, with money, it's like, and just goals, right? So you can have a, like, a really important goal of paying off debt, but then there's these life goals that supersede any of that, sometimes, where it's like, no matter how much it does cost, like, it's that important to you, like, it's not about the money anymore, right? So, alright, I'm loving this conversation. I really hope that it's bringing a lot of insight to people who are wanting to have this conversation, or maybe there's some couples listening. Let's just say there's a person listening and they want to be able to talk to their spouse or partner about money like they they're like, You know what? I would like to get more serious about this journey. I just don't know, because maybe they don't think their partner is going to be receptive. What are some tips or best ways that you think someone should approach someone that they are kind of afraid to talk to money about, or that they just are unsure about how to start the conversation. One

LeDo McDowell 43:08

is just developing a system where you're communicating on a regular basis. I wouldn't start with finances if you don't already have that. Just have weekly check ins, buy weekly check ins, where you're just listening to your partner, you're you're understanding their wants, their desires, their fears, you know, and just becoming really intimate, where you're not having to guess about where they stand. And then, you know, share and sharing what is important to you, you know, maybe just introducing that, hey, I really want security for our family, or I really want for us to be from up under debt and share the why. I think sharing your why will connect with your spouse, or it should connect with your spouse, and then you can build from there. Because if there's love there, and if there's a genuine respect for each other, then I would do anything for my wife, and so even if it meant not being able to retire in our 50s, then so be it, because she's more important to me than any financial goals. And so I think maybe approaching it from that standpoint, as opposed to this, is something I think you need to get on board with, because what we're doing right now isn't really working. I think, just coming from it, from an aspect of trying to deepen the intimacy and understanding of one another inside the relationship, and

Shameka McDowell 44:29

then understanding that it really is a journey, and just because you are where you are with it at that particular moment, it may take your spouse a minute to get there, but being diligent and having the heart conversations, the hard and heart conversations, to kind of gage where you're at mentally and emotionally, because there is emotion tied to money. So just getting a basic understanding. I think will help kind of navigate how you approach those conversations.

Jamila Souffrant 45:05

Yeah, and I love that you said, start with basic communication first, like not even money. Just make sure you're on the same page, and start with the love first and the connection, and then build the money on top of that. Because if you already don't have that, and you just introduce money, conversations that you know that you both may not be ready for that. Can just just make things even worse, right? Yes. So in terms of future goals, like, what are you working towards? So I know you paid off a ton of debt, right? Like, are you still looking to pay off debt? Do you have debt still outside of your mortgage? Are you looking to retire early reach financial independence. I heard you say in your 50s, possibly, that may be a goal. So share kind of what's next, or what you're working towards.

LeDo McDowell 45:47

Real estate investing. This year, we want to sell our house and we want to purchase, possibly a duplex. We want a house hack. Get out of apartments. House hack, and then save up. We're working towards saving up a six month emergency fund, and we have started to open up a lot IRA, we're going to do both one for both of us. We're going to dial down her 401, K contributions to only the match. And until we can, you know, get our six months of expenses saved up. And, yeah, so real estate investing. And the goal is, I want her to be able to retire at 50. Amen. Now, will she retire like neither one of us think we'll retire, you know, but to be able to choose what option have the option right? And so, like me, I think I'll just always be have my hand in something, but I want her to have that option at 50 to just not work. Oh, you're sweet.

Jamila Souffrant 46:54

So, and I didn't really actually your age. If you don't want to share, that's fine. But kind of how far away of a goal is that, like the 50 mark.

LeDo McDowell 47:03

I'll be 36 I'll be 37 in May,

Shameka McDowell 47:06

and I'll be 36 in May. Okay, so

Jamila Souffrant 47:08

you're still young. It's funny, we're the same, like age, so and I still kind of feel like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm in my mid 30s, but I'd love your openness. And I'm like, I'm so grateful that you guys came on the show to share this, because I know that this is going to help people who are either seasoned people like couples that talk about money, and people who are just, like, starting the conversation, because, like, really being honest, that it's like, not always easy, not everyone's always on the same page, and that you still have a ways to go, right? I think again, it's the journey. Some of us are years out from some of the goals we've set, and so you gotta find a way to make it enjoyable, and especially if you're with someone, like, on the journey. Like,

LeDo McDowell 47:48

great, correct? Yes. Okay,

Jamila Souffrant 47:52

so you guys also have a podcast, I was checking it out, and you talk about, like, marriage and relationship stuff, right? Yeah, can you share with everyone where they can find you and like, kind of cheer you on, on your journey, on whether that's like social media or the podcast.

Shameka McDowell 48:06

So the podcast is called the marital mission. We are on Instagram, we're on Facebook, we're on Twitter. We haven't been as active these past couple of months, you know, trying to get out of debt and traveling and doing some other things, but we're definitely ramping up this new year with the new vigor, so be sure to check us out.

Jamila Souffrant 48:28

Yeah, and I will tag all that. I'll get all that information from you guys and put it in the episode

LeDo McDowell 48:33

show notes. Thank you. Well, you can listen to podcast wherever you can listen to podcast.

Shameka McDowell 48:37

Pretty much we're there. Yeah,

Jamila Souffrant 48:39

awesome. Thanks so much again, Lido and Shamika for coming on and being so open about your journey, and I wish you much, much success.

LeDo McDowell 48:47

Thank you so much.

Jamila Souffrant 48:53

Okay, I really hope you enjoy that conversation with Lido and Shamika. I'm so happy that they were able to share their story, and I hope it helps you, so if you are in a relationship with someone that you want to be able to kind of speak more openly about money or get on the same page or just reaffirm your goals together, this is a great episode to listen to together. Hopefully this will also help you maybe think of ways in which you can approach the conversation. And then, as always, if you enjoyed this episode, share it with me. Tag me on social media. I'm at journey to launch on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. Share it with your family and friends and tag me. Let me know what you thought of it. Also, if you are listening to this podcast wherever you listen to really, just make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss a thing. You can listen to this podcast, really anywhere. So if you have an Apple phone, you can listen on Apple podcast. That's that purple app on your phone. And you can also listen on your Android phone. You can listen in Spotify on YouTube, literally anywhere. Just go to journey to launch com slash podcast, and you'll be able to find where you can listen to the journey to launch podcast. Us. Don't forget, you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this. And you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch.com/jumpstart

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