How To Stop People Pleasing, Step Into Worthiness, & Protect Your Assets With Divorce Attorney Renee Bauer

Episode Number: 337

Episode 337: How To Stop People Pleasing, Step Into Worthiness, & Protect Your Assets With Divorce Attorney Renee Bauer

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How To Stop People Pleasing, Step Into Worthiness, & Protect Your Assets With Divorce Attorney Renee Bauer

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Renee Bauer, international speaker, 20 year divorce attorney veteran, and author, joins the Journey to Launch podcast to discuss the logistics of divorce, why most marriage problems are worthiness problems, and how to protect yourself even in a loving relationship.

We also chat about prioritizing yourself, setting healthy boundaries, and how Renee became an entrepreneur. 

In this episode you’ll learn more about:

  • How to have uncomfortable money conversations with your partner
  • The realities of asset splitting in divorce and prenups and postnups
  • Why you need to create a “No List”
  • Recovering from being a people please, the “Stop, Drop, and Roll” framework, honoring your gut instincts, and more

Check out the video to this episode on YouTube below or by clicking here

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Jamila Souffrant 4:35

Hey, hey, hey Journeyers. Welcome to the journey to launch podcast, today, we have Miss Renee Bauer on the podcast. She has been a divorce attorney for 20 years and is the founder and managing attorney of Happy Even After family law located in Connecticut. She also is an international speaker, author of three books, divorce in Connecticut, The Ultimate Guide to solo and small firms Success and a children's book Percy's imperfectly perfect family. She's written a new book called She Who Wins, ditch your inner good girl overcome uncertainty and win at your life. Renee, welcome to the podcast.

Renee Bauer 5:14

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat with you today.

Jamila Souffrant 5:18

Yeah. So, you know, you have a not only professional experience with divorce and personal experience, which I'm sure we're gonna get into your personal story around that. But you understand, how money and love or the breakup of a union and love how it impacts money and people and how things change. So I do want to start there. And of course, then get into topics in your book, because you're so much more than just a divorce attorney, right? Like, you're an entrepreneur, who is really seeming to go after, like, all the things like, you're a writer, you're a mom and having this career, and the way that you look at life I think is interesting. So to go back to kind of this idea of marriage and divorce and money. Can we talk a bit about your experience with that? Both sides professionally and personally, so that we listening can learn from that as we move forward in our relationships?

Renee Bauer 6:22

Yeah, oh, my gosh, there's so much to unpack there. But let's start with, so I've been a divorce lawyer for a long time now. And money is usually the thing that people come into my office with and say, Well, money is the root of the breakdown of our marriage. And it's also the reason why people will stay in a bad or toxic or broken marriage, because they were afraid of money, or they're afraid they don't have enough money, or they've never handled the money in their marriage. And so they don't know how to do it. And they're intimidated. So that holds them stuck as well. So, you know, one of the first things for anyone who's listening who isn't even thinking about divorce, they're in love, maybe they're getting married, they love their partner, you know, start to have those uncomfortable conversations around money, even when things are amazingly well between you because a lot of times it's like, your planning the wedding, you're excited about picking the venue and planning the honeymoon and picking the flowers out. And you're not having conversations about money habits, like usually you're not bringing this up on a first couple dates is like, Hey, are you a spender or a saver? But those are the things that are going to make you crazy in a marriage. So like have those uncomfortable conversations and say, What are your money habits? Are you coming in with debt? Do you like to save? Do you like to spend? How do you like to spend money? Some people want things; they want the big house, and other people want experiences and vacations. And when that's misaligned, that's when conflict starts. And that's where there's some resentment in someone's maybe spending too much. And the person who's a saver gets really nervous about that. Or the person who likes to have experiences feels like they're being restrained, because they haven't budgeted for those things that are important to them. So having those conversations early on is so so important for the health of your marriage, and people don't like to talk about it, it's not fun, you know, but plan it, put it in your calendar, pick a Sunday, once a month and sit down and and look at your finances and look how you're spending money. And stay on top of it, like a business owner would in their books in their business if you're doing what you're supposed to be doing, but treat it the same way. So that's the first piece of it. But often money is the thing that really when a marriage has gotten past the point of no return. Money is the thing that keeps people stuck. In the divorce they're fighting over the divorce money and they're fighting over alimony. Alimony is one of the hardest things really to resolve in a divorce. And then the life after and how to handle that. So there's so many important conversations around money. But so much of this really is about this whole scarcity mindset with it, right? Because they're holding on and they have this fear. And they're worried about never having enough. And rather than looking at things and saying okay, what can I do to change the circumstance? How can I take control? How can I educate myself by listening to podcasts like this, having that information and taking responsibility for what you know about money and investing and retiring and all of that rather than letting some another professional just tell you what to do with it, is taking control of that.

Jamila Souffrant 9:24

So one part, you know, you're talking about being proactive when you're maybe just dating and getting to the stage of engagement and going to be married. But I suspect that for some people, they have not had this conversation and they're in a long term relationship and/or marriage. And they know that this needs to be brought up and it's not something they have addressed, but they're becoming more financially aware. They were listening to the podcast and they're like, You know what, I need to get on the same page with my partner. What tips do you suggest for people who have not been as proactive, but who do feel like they need to start talking and speaking up more? but then maybe have a fear that the partner, because they have not spoken about this before, is going to look at them like, wait, what's going on why you want to talk about money all of a sudden..

Renee Bauer 10:07

I believe like anything else, if you're sitting at the dinner table and you throw this out to your partner, and they hear it for the first time, it's not gonna be well received. So you have to, like prep the conversation to be like, hey, this has been on my mind, I think we should talk about it, let's put a time on the schedule that we can carve out where we're completely not distracted and it's just us focusing on that. So you're giving your partner the opportunity to kind of get their headspace right and that they know, okay, now's the time that we're going to talk about this and they don't feel bombarded. Because often what happens is, you know, with that conversation, someone sits down and was like, and you're doing this and you're overspending and you're you know, in rather you come to it with an openness and not this accusatory tone, it's comfortable with an openness of let's look at our our finances so we can set ourselves up for the best financial future and independence. So we can do all of the things that we both love and want to do. And you approach it like that, and put that time in the calendar, and maybe even show up with documents like you would if you're meeting with a lawyer or going through a divorce or mediation, like pull together your stuff. If you don't know it pull together like do you have retirement assets? And what does that look like? A lot of times couples don't even know what each other has. And it's like, Oh, I'm just contributing, I have no idea what's in there. Pull it together. Do you have credit card statements or debt that needs to be paid off? Bring the current statements so you can look to look at together and say, Okay, let's come up with a plan. But you both show up prepared to have a conversation and keep it civil, keep it businesslike and really try to keep the emotion out of it. Because as soon as the emotion gets into the middle of that conversation, then it becomes really hard to walk away with a strategy or some things that you're both going to work on together.

Jamila Souffrant 11:55

Right now I know every state is different. So you may not be able to speak to each state but in general, can you talk about what typically legally in a marriage like if you don't have a prenup signed, and maybe we can discuss prenups and post ups. But also I want to talk about if you have nothing signed because honestly, in my world, with my friends, none that I know of have a prenup. Like it's just not something that is done in my real world versus what I know should be done that I hear all the time from my colleagues and people in online industry. So if you don't have a prenup, what does that look like in terms of if a marriage is dissolving? And again, I know it depends on the state but we'd love to get some insight there.

Renee Bauer 12:37

As for prenups, um, it's such a great question because I don't have a prenup. Like you think a divorce lawyer would have a prenup. But for me the decision was in Connecticut and a lot of states are like this, you leave with what you came in with. So when when I walked into that marriage, here are all the assets I had, here are all the assets my husband had. And that's the starting point for how things get divided. If the marriage broke down, it was like what was accumulated from that start point forward. Now a prenup becomes really important. I do think when you have a lot of assets, and when you're on your second or third marriage, and there are kids and you want to protect your children and make sure your children are the recipient of the things that you've acquired. So that's when a prenup is important. And I think it's at the base of all of this is, ishaving those conversations too and not just going straight to the lawyer and saying, I want the prenup done, and not telling her until they get a correspondence from the attorney. But it's just like having those conversations. What do we have? And what's the plan? If something were to happen? Is it the intention that we're going to preserve what we have for our children from previous marriages? You know, everyone's situation is so different. And, you know, I always hesitate and people think just because I'm a lawyer, I'm gonna say, like, just across the board, everyone needs to get a prenup. And I don't feel that way. I think that it's really different for different circumstances, and whether there's generational businesses that are coming into play and things like that, that impacts whether you need one,

Jamila Souffrant 14:09

yes, no one wants to go into a marriage thinking it's going to dissolve or be negative. And then oftentimes, right, you think that you'd be reasonable, like, even if you aren't happy right now, when I think about God forbid, if my husband and I were to not be together, I'm like, well, he's a reasonable person. And I'm a reasonable person. So why would we have an issue? But because I have not experienced divorce, but I've heard, or I've known of people who have gone through ugly divorces, and they, in the moment when they got married, said, Oh, I would have never thought my partner would do this, like trying to come after something I had already or take more than what they thought was deserved to them. But then I'm like, Well, I felt like there were traits that your partner showed you they could have been this kind of person, but also I don't want to be naive to feel like just because you know your partner has never done anything they can turn in and do something unexpected. So with that, I'd love to hear kind of, from your experience, what that looks like, is it a fact of just like you choose the right partner who's not going to, even if things break up, they're not going to be so negative and cruel, or it doesn't even matter you've seen the nicest, most reasonable people go at it and change their whole tune once things got bad.

Renee Bauer 15:21

usually, so a divorce brings out the worst in people for sure. But I think that that's just an exaggerated version of who they actually are. So I think someone who is reasonable, will continue to go through the divorce process in a reasonable way, it might be emotional, but it will still be reasonable. And ultimately, they're not looking to hurt the other person. I think that when you have a lot of conflict or animosity or toxicity in a relationship, that becomes the same for the divorce too. And so and especially if you're dealing with some level of mental illness that one person is struggling with, that becomes a factor too. So everyone likes to think that one, you're never going to end up in this situation. And two if you do, we're going to do this in a really nice way. But you just don't know. And sometimes the attorney impacts that someone can rely on their attorney so much. And their attorney is flaming the fire and causing conflict. I mean, it's not unheard of for that to happen. And that's where, if you look at like what really happens in the worst case scenario, if you think about like, what's the worst that happens if we don't have a prenup, and we find ourselves in this situation, you're looking at, you know, 50% of everything gets split down the middle, like, that's a good starting point, no one's gonna walk away with 90% of everything, and the other person has, you know, nothing, just a shoebox. Even though people want that, like people will fight to make sure their spouse gets as little as possible. And at the end of the day, you're talking about probably a variation of like, 10% swing one way or the other. Now, we're I'm not talking about the celebrities who have these obscene amounts of of support and alimony like we're talking real world people, you know, and in that case, you really see a 10% swing. So maybe you might see in a particular situation where it's a 6040 split, and there's usually there's like a reason for it. But usually dividing things up equally is what the court does, because they want both people on equal footing. And that's what they consider it fair and equitable is usually the the terminology that they use when dividing assets is a fair and equitable division of all property and assets. So that's where it sort of lies. So people you know, who come in with this conception of like, I'm going to fight and I'm going to make them suffer ends up with this same exact thing as the person who's like, listen, I just want us both to go on our way and end up moving on with our lives. And I want them to be happy too. But the only difference between those two people are is the really high conflict, one probably just dropped 20 3040 grand on attorneys fees, which is really sad, because that could be money that went back to the family, the kids to set each other up at you know, in a different living situation.

Jamila Souffrant 18:03 <<<<<<<<<

And how can stay at home parents or people who are not the breadwinners protect themselves once they're already in the marriage, if there is no prenup, like how does that work for someone who in the relationship dissolves?

Renee Bauer 18:16

So it's the same thing. So the what you're going to hear and you know, this is kind of like the the information though, that no one wants to hear, unfortunately, but it's the one it's the truth is that when we have someone come into the office was a stay at home parent. And they say that sit there arrangement was that I would stay home and raise the kids. And that was always what it was. Well, that was assuming that you stayed together as a couple. Now, if someone is earning a half a million dollars a year and you're taking that income, and you're splitting it to then yeah, you probably both can survive off of that. And maybe that person can continue to stay at home. But that's not most people's reality. The fact is that that one person's income won't be able to set up a household and pay all the bills for two separate households. And the thing that people don't want to hear is okay, what what are you going to do to go back and earn some income on your own? Let's look at what did you do before? Do you have any certificates? You want to go back to school? What can you do? And because honestly, what I say to people is why do you want to rely on the check coming through from your spouse, like, there might be some time where it will take you a little bit to start to earn your potential. But why at the end, why 10 years from now or 15 or 20, post divorced you still want to rely on your ex to to pay like what if they stopped sending you checks, then you have to chase them. And so like the most powerful thing you can do is start to figure out your plan to become financially independent as soon as possible. And all of the other stuff the support is icing on the cake. But people don't want to hear that because what they what they say is you know I was supposed to be the stay at home parent and and quite frankly the courts are not taking that as a reason for someone not to work anymore. And so Many of the judges out there are working moms. And so when a mom says, You know what the plan was for me to stay home, then you know, a lot of times you'll have a judge say, You know what, at some point, I wanted to do that too. And I have to work and I have to support my family. And so do you. And it's a really unpopular truth and a hard thing for someone to hear who's going through it and feeling so emotional about it.

Jamila Souffrant 20:22

Now you yourself have personally experienced divorce, you've had almost what you say like reemergence and had into like new careers or different have done different things with your career. So I'd love to talk through how you navigated that knowing all that, you know, as a divorce attorney, going through it yourself, and then how you pivoted. And we'll talk more about your career in the book.

Renee Bauer 20:46

Yeah, so I did a really crappy job, merging the two. So while I was like showing up to work and doing my job as a lawyer, I was I was really a broken version of myself. And I had not reconciled that I had gone through two divorces. And the second one was a doozy. Super short amount of time I was married, but also such a huge amount of shame that I had around that divorce, because it was like, you know, I heard I saw the people like I told you, so you know, like, You got married too quick. I told you so. And so I just, it was really hard for me to reconcile that I made a poor choice. And I kept that part of myself quiet for so long. I didn't talk about it and share it. I certainly wasn't going on podcasting, what I just said. But the minute that I actually started to share that story, and the shame and the pain from it was when everything sort of merged together. And I realized that people need to hear this this story. And like clients wanted to hear like, oh, I can listen to advice from you, because you've been there as well. And when you listen, when I went through my first divorce, I might I had just started my law firm. I was one year and I, I was working on a folding table. I had, I think maybe 10 clients if I was lucky. So it was a grind. And I had many moments of how am I going to afford my bills? How am I going to afford my lifestyle, and it forced me to really focus on Okay, now I have to get really good with numbers. Now I have to really focus on what business growth means. And I'm not just having some fun in a law firm and killing time, while my husband's at work, you know, like I had to say, alright, what am I going to do to turn this not just into a job, but into something that will support me and will give me comfort and will give me the ability to give my son the life that I want for him and to go on the vacations and do all of that. So I had to be really intentional about that. Because I was not in a good financial place at the time of my divorce that people think like, Oh, you were a lawyer, like you were all set. And I was not at that point, I was a brand new business owner that didn't have any sort of reliable income at that point.

Jamila Souffrant 22:54

And so that was your first divorce that you're talking about. Right? And then you went through the second one. So for you, how, how are you navigating kind of I know, you talked about the shame a bit. And it's so interesting that there that you didn't want to share you had to work through yourself is what made you more relatable, probably more authentic to your client. And then you have a story to tell, you know, now that you're on podcast, and you can see the other side of it. What makes you so much more relatable, right? And so I just said sidenote for anything that someone is going through that feels embarrassing that is feel shameful is, is that there is someone who wants to hear or it can benefit when you're ready to share it if you're if you're going to share your story in that way. So but as you started to kind of do more, I'd love to hear what because you could have just stayed a divorce attorney right and just did that. But I want to talk more about you going into other things, doing other things writing a book, I'm starting businesses, what that was like for you, and how that relates to the topics in your book. She who wins because I'm sure that you talk about like what caused you to do those things, too.

Renee Bauer 24:00

Yeah. So you know, I It's funny how life kind of unfolds and happens in during seasons. And I had spent so much of my time as a divorce lawyer litigating in courtroom doing trial work, and I loved it for a while until I didn't anymore, and it sort of was sucking my soul and it was exhausting. And I'm a huge Empath and it was like really hard to separate. And when COVID happened, I everything shut down, the court shut down. And I said you know what, I feel like there's a bigger message here. And what is it and I really loved working with women and I loved helping them see that they were going to be okay on the other side of divorce. So I started to talk about create a community for divorced women, which then I realized, you know what, the problem that so many women have actually is not a marriage problem. It's a worthiness problem. And it's a it's having uncomfortable conversations or taking bold moves like starting the business or investing or you know, there are so many things that women are holding themselves back from that's when started to realize I'm like, okay, maybe let me work a little bit and women's and female empowerment. And I host a live event. I'm like, I don't know who's gonna show up at this thing. It was in 2021. And we sold out. And I'm like, okay, like there is there, people are craving for this connection to have these conversations. And that became the she who wins platform. And then, so I'm a writer to my core, it's what I've done before anything else. And I've always dreamed of writing the book. And I had these other books, but they were more of like, guides. One was a children's book. One was a, you know, a divorce in Connecticut, not at all fun to write. But I really wanted to write something that felt like felt it was from my soul. And the she who wins book was that it was taking really vulnerable personal stories, and talking. I mean, I talk about divorce as part of my story. But it's not a divorce book. It's talking about worthiness and body image and talks about money. And it talks about relationships and talks about taking risk and how to make decisions and trust yourself and all of those things that I that I saw a woman go through, and that that was the basis for the book. And you know, I'm an entrepreneur to my core, I love it. I love I love the process of starting a business, and then seeing what happens and seeing how I can grow it and seeing all the mistakes I can make along the way. And like how many times can I fail before something like works, you know, and that's part of the joy of being an entrepreneur, because it's embracing failure, embracing rejection, and saying this is just part of the process, and it just makes for a better story.

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Jamila Souffrant 27:28

Are you still practicing or law and have your law firm?

Renee Bauer 27:31

So funny that you asked that because I still own my law firm as we interview as we are doing this right now. But I'm in conversations to sell it in the next year. So I will be exiting the firm.

Jamila Souffrant 27:45

Okay, also and, you know, ask that because there's so many of us who are multi talented when we're layered, right? I have a lot of lawyers and professionals who have gone through years of schooling or doctors to do what they're doing. But there's something else that they want to do too. And then it's a matter of, you know, maybe they're a parent, or maybe they're taking care of someone or they just they feel overwhelmed already with their life. But there are other avenues they want to explore. And so managing that, like how do you juggle your time to be able to do that? What things did you do to be able to figure out or have the space and capacity to pursue these other things to write a book to what maybe pivot from what your identity was as a divorce attorney right to where you are now. Any tips or advice on that?

Renee Bauer 28:33

Yeah, so I was working with someone at the time who said create a no list, create a list of the things and she pushed me on it that you will absolutely no longer do the things that do not fill you up. And the things that are just taking up your time. And I created this no list and one of the things on there was I was going to cut back or not take any more clients. And I thought to myself, I kind of laughed. I'm like, Yeah, I'm the Rainmaker and the firm, like people come to me, it's my name on on the business sign it was at the time, it's not anymore. And I was like, that's never going to happen. But I put it down in the list. And every time a new client called to meet with me, I said no. And I sent him to one of my other lawyers. And that started to create more time and more opportunity. And it started to open up like such clarity and myself of what I love doing. And I realized because I still had cases ongoing, and I realized every time I was working on those cases, I felt like a little bit of myself die. You know, it was not filling the opera lighting me up. Every time I sat down at my computer to type or went on a podcast or spoke on stage I lit up and I'm like they're like I had to follow that and know and have some trust that you know, those were the things that I had to follow. And honestly, at this point, as I'm talking about selling my firm, there's a little bit of like fear with that like to be completely blunt with you. It's like I spent all this time building up this firm that's a reliable income stream now, and it's like I'm gonna let go For the unknown, and what's on the other side and have some faith that it's all going to fall into place. But like, if I'm going, if I'm going to practice what I preach, I also have to leap and know that sometimes you have to take those risks and make those bold decisions in order to take your life to the next level. And that's exactly where I am right now. I'm like doing this dance of like safety No, go for it, no stay, you know, stay exactly where you are. Because it's comfortable, no, like, take the leap, because what's out there is like, could be potentially massive.

Jamila Souffrant 30:30

You talked about the worthiness issue that a lot of women face. And by the way, I think men also have this, I think it comes off another, maybe over with toxicity, masculine toxicity, or it comes over, off, it's something else. But let's talk about that. Because I feel that that worthiness, that inner wealth, or how you feel about yourself, ultimately, you know, because I think there is a part I think of all of us who may be don't always have the best self talk or have beards, which is fine. But the confidence and or the good self talk, and all the good things outweigh like the negative. And so kind of like we rise a bit above what can hold us back. But let's talk about the worthiness topic, because I do find that, for those who don't really know, or feel that they're not worthy, they don't fulfill their potential, right? Like, they don't go for the opportunities. They're afraid to fail, because the failure for them feels like it represents them and not just like an experience. So I find that if you ask someone, do you feel like you're worthy person? Most people will say yes, that they are worthy. But then if you saw their actions and where they are in life, you'd be like, Wait, something is missing. So one, how do you know if you really are confident and feel worthy? Versus You're just saying that? And then what are some steps we can take to feel more worthy? And to to really live that truth?

Renee Bauer 31:50

So what are you saying yes to? And are you saying yes to things just to keep other people happy? You know, that's a worthiness issue. I'm a recovering people pleaser, you know, and I and so many women are, it's like, because you're told, like you want to make you want to make sure everyone's comfortable. And as a mom, especially like, you want to make sure your kids are comfortable. And you want to make sure that in so you put yourself last on that list. So if you catch yourself constantly, people pleasing, that's a worthiness issue, because you're saying to yourself, I'm not as important as everyone else, my happiness isn't as important. My self care, my sense of peace, my lack of anxiety isn't as important as everyone else. Like, that's usually how that manifests in a way. And I see it all of the time. Like, I have really good friends who have major worthiness issues, they wouldn't even know to name it, they would not, you know, they would not be able to put a word to it. But when it comes time to, hey, let's plan a girl's weekend to like, fill our souls and just laugh and eat good food. And, and it's, uh, I can't, because all of these other things are happening, which are all I need to people, please. And I need to not have mom guilt, because I'm going to miss one of my kids soccer games. And I'm not, you know, and I'm like they have a worthiness issue because they're not putting themselves first. So it's like, pay attention to the actions like you said, What are you doing for yourself? What are you saying no to things that you really don't want to do? And you know, no full stop with all of these explanations behind it. And like, when we feel like we have to keep showing up and saying yes, and, and doing things that don't feel good. That's a worthiness issue. So it's just like really pay attention to are you making decisions based on what feels good inside of you, like, we are so intuitive as to what like a gut, like, I can feel something, I get a conversation with someone if it doesn't feel right. Like it feels physical to me when it doesn't like feel like a yes. And it's like honor that. Honor that gut instinct, and say no to those things. And also honor yourself and say yes to the things that you know, even if it's going to be requiring you to rearrange your schedule, so your kids get to soccer on time, but you know, you will leave 48 hours later filled up with laughter. And like, just time to be like, That's a worthiness issue is when we just don't take time to really fill our own soul or our body, our time for exercise. Like, you know, how many times if people say you don't have time to work out or move or do whatever it is, like, that's a worthiness issue.

Jamila Souffrant 34:20

Yeah, I was thinking to that you can probably maybe tell based on how other people treat and value you not that you shouldn't be defined by, you know, someone else's bad day, or if they're not a good person and treating you right, but you know, it's like, how are the people around you treating you and then I would also do buckets because I also know some people where they have great friends, but then like, the person in the relationship doesn't treat them right. Or like so. It's almost like doing a evaluation of how do my kids or do my kids respect me? Does my partner or spouse, treat me well or respect me do my co workers and again, it's not an indication that you're bad if they are not treating you right, but just I see in terms of worth, because I do really believe you treat you teach people how to treat you or how to value you. And it'd be interesting if we all did that kind of assessment in our lives. Or if we're honest with ourselves, do we feel like our friends value us or treat us right? Or deem us as worthy,

Renee Bauer 35:17

and be willing to let go of those relationships that don't or, you know, if you can't let go of them, because we can't, you know, our family members or relatives or relatives, but be willing to have some boundaries, or having have that tough conversation to say, hey, I don't feel good when you do this. Or if you don't want to have that conversation, just put some, you know, some protective shield around you when you're going to have that visit and know like, Okay, I'm gonna remove myself take some deep breaths when when I start to feel triggered. But yeah, I mean, it's and then like, for friendships, let go of the ones that don't feel good to you. Like, it should not have to be so much work or angst, or anxiety, like, we're grown woman, you know, and all you listen as grown adults, like if there's something if there's a friendship that just doesn't feel good, and requires us to work and like, in have to constantly have a like, I had someone recently who reached out and was like, I feel like you're mad at me. And I'm like, wait a second. I'm we're grown people. Like, how about the conversation? Hey, like, let's chat. Are you busy or something not like not that I feel like you're mad at me, but like, have been willing to let go of the ones that really aren't aligned with where we are in our life. Currently, they may have been part of our growth or a life in some in the past, but it's okay, if you've outgrown them.

Jamila Souffrant 36:35

This is one of the the topics in your book is The getting out of that good girl, or overcoming like this Good girl syndrome or perception? Is that also being willing to walk away from people like what is the balance between, I'm no longer going to live up to society's standards of what a good girl is. But I also don't need to treat people badly or overexert myself. So I'd love to know the balance of that. And how you navigate that and recover from being a good girl.

Renee Bauer 37:03

I love that question. Because it has nothing to do with being like the big be like it's not, you know, saying I'm not a good girl anymore, doesn't mean you storm through the world angry at everyone. It's a complete opposite. It's you show up with kindness and empathy for people. But with detachment as well. It's like, you know, what, if you're not happy with with something, that that's a reflection of you and not me, and being willing to still have those hard conversations, even when they're hard. And you look at someone in the eye and say, This is how I feel I'm asking, demanding you to respect that opinion. And I'm sorry, if you don't agree with me, but these, this is still the way I feel. And it's not not having the conversation because it's uncomfortable. And usually when you don't have the conversation, it's because you want to keep them happy and not yourself. So it has nothing to do with being overly assertive and overly aggressive. It's just being like, This is who I am. And I'm going to be unapologetic about having feelings or opinions. And I'm gonna respect yours, too. You know, and it's not coming all out hot and heavy at somebody, but it's just not shoving your own, like down to the bottom of that list. And we're so conditioned to people, please, and not have boundaries and smile. I mean, how many for the woman listening, we're told, like, you'd be so pretty if you smiled. And it's like, you know, we've been so conditioned to act a certain way or fulfill a certain thing or get married, have the kids and like, all of those things that we think we're supposed to do. And it's actually well, you don't have to you get to make decisions based on what you actually want to do. And maybe that's the divorce, maybe it's starting the business, maybe it's moving across country, but whatever is going to make you happy is the right decision for you. And I'm sorry if you don't agree with that decision, but it's the best one for me.

Jamila Souffrant 38:49

Yes. So you mentioned something about being able to like walkaway like from relationships, and it just like came to me I know, you know, I'm a believer, or I believe, you know, in great marriages, I'm just as impressed. Like if someone is happily married, or at least you know, like, Everything can't be roses, but they've made it through and they've been together for 20 3040 years, like long term marriages. But I'm also equally impressed by women mostly when like, if I like you, you said you've been through two divorces, like the fact that you can like walk away from relationships that are not serving you because I do feel like a lot of people stay in relationships that are not good. And so I'm also equally impressed by people who can when it's helped healthy breakups, or at least you know, it's not toxic, that can say, You know what, this was not working for me. And so I'm choosing to walk away because there's so many of us who are people who don't walk away from situations whether it's the job or the person or the friend. And so I really just want to highlight that because that does show this whole Good girl, or this persona that sometimes you want to keep up for appearances and for other people doesn't serve us. The other thing there's like a video going around with this girl And she kind of came on like she was saying I did all the right things. I have a degree. I don't like post salacious pictures. You know, I am I did. But she was just listing all the good things she's done. And she's like, I'm still single, like she was kind of upset about and like another couple showing off their love and saying and look at me like, well, I've done it. All right. And so some of the comments were, like, this is what happens when you just, you're just looking at the all the right things based on what other people think. And then, you know, versus if these are things you truly wanted to do, it wouldn't be based on Oh, why don't I have a relationship because of all these things? So I would love to kind of get your insight or thoughts about that, too.

Renee Bauer 40:37

Oh, my God, I want to look that up. So um, yeah, so you know, on on another twice divorce, but I'm happily married a third time right now. So we've been together 10 years, and the connection and relationship we have is so beautiful, and I can't say is anything perfect, nothing's perfect. Like you people have conflict in, in relationships. But we both came into that relationship really vulnerable and saying, here's who we are, here's what's important to us, here's our communication, like, an effort and intention into our communication, and talking things out in listening with with civility. So, you know, I think to that, it's all of those things are great. But that isn't what that's not the connection that you're going to have with another human a degree on the wall doesn't mean you're going to be a match for a good person. It's like, it's the soul match. It's the heart match. It's the, you know, like I look at it is not on paper, like I can look at my first husband and like on paper, we were great. You know, we checked all the boxes, we had the degrees and the the house and the picket fence and all that stuff. But as a connecting as people, we weren't the grip, best match. So for her, I would say just have patience, enjoy your life, like your whole life isn't meant just to find a partner, but have fun, and know your worth. And Don't devalue yourself just to be in a relationship with someone else. Because when that right person comes along, they're gonna value you exactly who you are, and the history that you've had, and all of the other things, but it's the match that the connection that matters, and who has a timeline for that, like, you know, and that's when we see divorces happen, right? Because someone thinks that they're supposed to be married by 30 years old, and have a kid and now they're forcing something. And now it's not a full match, like, just be patient and the right match will come to you, but don't compromise who you are and your values for that. No,

Jamila Souffrant 42:33

oh my gosh, I'm gonna send this this portion to my little sister who thinks she needs to be married. Kids on a timeline?

Renee Bauer 42:42

No way, no way.

Jamila Souffrant 42:43

Okay, I love that. Let us know more about this framework that you talked about in your book, where you call it the stop drop and roll framework. And it's basically the way you teach so that you'll always win. So tell us more about that. Yeah.

Renee Bauer 42:58

So I wanted to I wanted to come up with something that was really memorable and easy for people to apply. And I realized I was for all these years, on the intentionally bringing clients through the same process and didn't know it was actually like a framework forming in my head. But I would constantly because they would come to me. And they'd be like, Well, how do you know? And so then we'd have a conversation about okay, well, let's first stop before we do anything else. Let's stop and talk about what's living in your heart. You know, what's your heart telling you? And what is your head talking about? If your head is keeping you small, it's trying to keep you safe? What's your heart telling you? And that was that first step, because once we get to start to uncover what it is that actually driving you or not, or preventing you from moving forward, then then we can move on to the next step. But first, we have to get really clear on what you're being led by. So that's the stop and assess. And then the next step is to drop your excuses. Because the what always happens, when anytime we're at a crossroads or making a decision. And we know we want something whether it's leaving the marriage or build a starting the business, whatever it is, we know that we want our excuses step in. And we think another time when I have more money when I'm thinner. When I have more, you know, it's all of these like later, later, later things What excuses are holding you back. And then when you so when you start to follow your heart and recognize and acknowledge the excuses that you've allowed to play too long in your life, then you roll into action because thinking it and knowing what you have to do is really useless unless you take action, you need to take the first step forward to move things, get things going, and then that creates momentum. And that's why we're rolling into action. Because once you take that first little step, then momentum starts and the next step becomes a little easier. And then the next is a little easier after that. It's not about just necessarily taking a massive leap. It's just what's the next thing that you need to do in order to continue movement. And why you always win is because of you're no longer stuck in this place of saying, you know, what do I do? Where do I go? How do I know like, you know what I know and be Call do something and I can't make that decision. If you start moving you following your heart and you're not allowing excuses to hold you back, you will always win, you will always end up in a better place, even if it looks different than what you anticipated. Because I firmly believe that sometimes the universe has a better plan for us than we do ourselves. And we just have to let go a little bit and have faith and continue moving in the right direction. So that's the stop, drop and roll equals win.

Jamila Souffrant 45:26

I love that. Now, when it comes to like your book, who is this book for? What was your intention and who should pick up and read this book?

Renee Bauer 45:36

It is for any woman who is at a place in their life where they feel stuck, or they think that this is as good as it gets. And for some that might resonate as being in a marriage that feels like it's come to completion for others that might be feeling like they're in a job that they absolutely hate. So it's anyone who just feels like they're on this hamster wheel. And they feel like they want more out of their life. It's for them. Love that.

Jamila Souffrant 46:02

Can you please tell everyone when the book comes out where they can get it and more about you where they can follow up?

Renee Bauer 46:08

Yeah, so it comes out in September 5. So by the time this episode drops, I think we might be about a week or so out from publication. And right now with pre orders, we've given away a ton of free bonuses. So while you can get the book at any major bookseller, Amazon and the like, and Barnes and Noble, if you go to see who wins From there, you can access all of the preorder bonuses that I'm giving away for another week until the book gets released. All right, so So that's right, one more time. She Who wins Awesome. I

Jamila Souffrant 46:42

will link all of that in the episode show notes. Renee, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Renee Bauer 46:46

Thank you so much. I love this chat.

Outro 46:50

Don't forget, you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to Or click the description of wherever you're listening to this. And you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this and Apple podcasts, rate review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review number to follow me on my social media accounts. I'm at journey to launch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And I love love love interacting with journeys. They're three support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here. So show them some love for supporting your girl for and last but not least, share this episode this podcast with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to launch. Alright, that's it until next week, keep on journeying journeyers

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