Gayle Colman, CFP®, holistic and integral wealth coach and author, joins the Journey to Launch podcast to discuss making money choices with clarity and confidence, free from overwhelm.
Gayle is co-founder of Colman Knight Advisory Group and has spent 35 years in the money psychology industry. Her work focuses on somatic finance, teaching and inspiring others to bring presence to their bodies and work from the internal first.
We chat about the 7 stages of money maturity, why awareness is key and how you can excel in the gray areas of life.
In this episode, you’ll learn more about:
- What somatic finance is and bringing the wisdom of our bodies into all matters of money
- How to begin improving the external (debt, income, financial goals, etc.) while healing the internal (what matters most to us and why)
- Money polarity myths, dynamically steering decisions + embodied sufficiency
- Giving attention to your body, creating space to feel, expressing emotions in the present + more
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- Twitter: @JourneyToLaunch
- Facebook: @Journey To Launch
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- Get The Free Jumpstart Guide
Gayle Colman 0:02
We are moving creatures being human and enjoying our life is always going to be in the present moment. And fear and polarities are always something that is related to the past, or the future. T minus 10 seconds.
Welcome to the journey to launch podcast with your host jameelah. So frogs as a money expert who wants her talk, she helps brave juniors like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real Whoa. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom for three.
If you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. In the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned and so much more. Also, whether you are an OG journeyer, or brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes, so listen to stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources and so much more. You can go to journey to launch that comm slash jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.
Jamila Souffrant 1:31
Hey journeyers I'm so excited to be chatting with today's special guests. Gail Coleman. Through her compassionate approach. Gail empowers us to reclaim control over our finances and make choices with clarity and confidence free from overwhelm. I'm loving this already Gail. She's a Certified Financial Planner, CFP, Master integral coach and co founder of Coleman Knight advisory group, a holistic and integral wealth advisory firm based in Massachusetts. Gail is also the author of the book, the body of money, a self help guide to create sustainable wealth through innate intelligence. Welcome to the podcast. Gail.
Gayle Colman 2:11
Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
Jamila Souffrant 2:14
I am so excited to speak with you because your work really touches upon like the things I really love talking about when it comes to money, which is not just the spreadsheets and the numbers and the external goals that we often set for ourselves. But what that journey looks like within. And I'm excited to learn more. So Matic finance, tell me what that means, where that came from, and then we will dive deeper.
Gayle Colman 2:39
Somatic finance is really the development and movement to bring the wisdom of our body, the soma somatic line of intelligence into all matters of money. And it came from my direct experience in my practices throughout my financial planning career in the body with the body, somatic meditation, breath and body work. And recognizing that my body has unique wisdom to offer me all the time. And it's been with me all of my life. And in money, we completely ignore what's below our neck. And so I kept asking colleagues, and this was an you know, after the the boom of and continuation of the psychology and money and behavioral finance. That is so important. But it still is very limited to our cognition, our brain, what we think versus what we're feeling, what we're sensing. And so, through my, like if sight my it's kind of like a dog with a bone. And I said I wouldn't let go of it. I said, you know, that's where somatic finance just came to me said, Oh, wow. And I began to write and practice and engage in my work with clients using the body.
Jamila Souffrant 4:05
Yeah. And when you say it, it makes so much sense. Like we talk so much from your head and ignore everything else. And when it comes to money internally, and what I love about what you bring to the conversation with this is that you have certified credentials, right? You so you are a CFP. And I know that takes a lot of like studying and training and knowing all the formulas to become one I am not a CFP. But I know. I thought about it and I was like, oh gosh, that's it's a lot and so I think sometimes when people are are given more information other than the money and the quantifiable they don't know the other side, they don't know how important the formulas are and the money like it's either either or so I love that you come from a place of I've studied the technical side of things and that's still not enough. So I'd love for you to talk a little bit about your work, how long you you've been practicing probably the other way without the bodywork without transitioning into somatic and what you feel was lacking or what you realized as he was working with your clients and not touching upon the more comprehensive way that you talk about money now.
Gayle Colman 5:15
Yeah, I have been in this field for over 35 years, and there seemed to be stages of my career where I was going, This isn't working. So in corporate, where it was very, very patriarchal, very, very parent child relationship with clients. And basically, ignoring what's really happening in that relationship and engagement, what's really happening for the other. And so when I felt I could feel because I've always been a feeler, there was a disconnect. And people weren't getting happier, even when they had the, quote, unquote, right financial decisions. So time after time, very early in the 80s, in the 90s, we would have the right financial plan, based on all of the numbers calculating to a tee, this is what you need to do, and it either wouldn't get implemented. And there would be a blaming on the client. Because Oh, they're not doing what they're supposed to do like a good child, or there would be an implementation, but there's no enjoyment, no. Increased wellbeing, still a lot of worry and angst. And, and so I said, we can do better. And there were these chunks in my career where we would continue to do we can do better, we started our own practice to do better. And when the psychology of money came into play, we I remember distinctly having a meeting with a client, and innocently asking, after we had signed all these papers and transferred his business to his daughter, and it was a beautiful, beautiful celebration. And I said, are you happy? And he broke down crying, and his wife was there, my partner was there. And my partner looked at me like, What the hell have you done, you know, you know, thinking and I, but I, I, I sat there. And it was one of those moments where I went, we can do better. And there's something here. And so those I kept going, it was I said, like, would not let this go. And it was in the beginning of 2000, when I began my own practice, very deep dive into my body, and training and realize I'm like, Oh, we are missing a wealth of wisdom that is always here letting us know that we are in alignment and integrity with our unique life. Because we would ask the questions, we would say what's important? What are your goals? What do you want to achieve? Everyone wants freedom. Everyone wants wellbeing. Everyone wants to feel okay. But anything outside of us is not where we feel okay, Feel freedom, feel joy. The only place that we can really know and experience joy and freedom and all of those things we seek is in our body. Because we feel those sensations we feel the texture that's human being human is being in a habit is inhabiting this body. And that's, that's where we we know life. That's where we can connect. That's where we relate.
Jamila Souffrant 8:50
And this is something I feel like we do No, I mean it just in a regular everyday life, when we achieve a goal or something external and it's great for a few minutes, or maybe a day or two. But then it wears off, we kind of go back to our setpoint of how we feel internally like that external thing does not change. Ultimately, every feeling that we have. I feel like a lot of us know that. But still put so much emphasis on the outward goal outside of you know, being able to take care of our families and the basic needs because we all need that to feel secure. But I think it's so important to talk about with money because we often are so focused, like you said on the formulas and how much is in the bank account or in the investment account or how much debt there is. And then there are people who have that figured out or have a lot of money and they're not happier. So let's talk about then bringing awareness to that part of us and how we work as we are fixing the external are working to get better with the numbers also work on the internal How does one start that process?
Gayle Colman 9:58
We start on the end aside, all too often we start on the exterior, you know, the outside to fix it to a weekend, we've got it all put together. But unless we start on the inside, and we really dive deep into what matters most to us, and why and build our financial plan and our financial strategies and our financial actions, from that point, we're doing it opposite. So that's why when you say it's, it's fleeting, we reach a goal, and it's like, ah, while it's okay, yeah, great, I did that. Now, this was the next one, when we turn it around, and we know every moment why, why we're engaging in something, why we're earning this income, and where we are directing it towards what matters most we have a constant, a constant River, of fueling and feeding our life and our joy. And so it's not like I like staccato, I reached this. And now the next thing, I reach this and now the next thing, we really have that open portal, feeding us and into, into our, into our joy into our satisfaction into our well being that we are constantly engaging constantly in, I want to say, in, in harmony moving, because it's they're both going on at the same time when you talk about or ask about our awareness. And how do we know it's like, we always are a whole body of full presence, our awareness and sensations and emotions. And so when we reach a goal, when we're connected to what matters most, it goes deeper, and we experience it. And we've got that full presence of our accomplishment. And that then carries forward to what's going next.
Jamila Souffrant 12:02
As adults, though, right, I've three small kids. And it's funny, because I see them, they're the closest I feel to being innocent, and not as much as I'm trying to stop ruining them as they grow. Because I have, you know, in terms of just being a parent, you want the best for your children. But I feel like we have our own preconceived notions and way that we want them to experience the world. And they, in their little bodies kind of are born expressing themselves without fear and without a filter, right? They feel and they they cry when they are upset, and they have their emotions. And you know, as they get older, they they kind of learn to mask that or to almost ignore sometimes, as adults, mostly, sometimes how we feel because of external expectations. And people who want the best for us who told us Oh, you don't you know, you don't feel like doing that. It's okay. Like you can do it or you feel nervous. You don't have to be worried about all this. All this messaging we've been receiving since childhood. How do you know? Or how do you get back to that and knowing what your body feels and wants? Because what I do want to talk about is that connection. So we're talking about like money and finances, and there's a connection to the body. Yes. How do we notice what that connection is when it comes to money and how we feel? And then how do we actually, there may be reactions when it comes to money that we're having, but we don't even notice we're having them because we're slice it's lifing and happening to us.
Gayle Colman 13:32
We're laughing and happening up here from our head up, right? So you're asking, what kind of what do we do? Like how do we know? Well, let's just let's just be really quick on this. And something's always happening. So we don't even need to think or try to think about it. We can commit to there's going to be fear around money, and I'm open to receiving I'm open to exploring. I'm I'm open to being like my child in curiosity, and wonder and all of my feelings, so that we can all just make a quick, I choose to be open to receiving everything that my body and mind and heart want to offer me. Then when something happens, we slow down. That's the best. Best, I'm gonna say medicine and it's the best to what we just pause. give ourselves a moment to be where we are. And give out we can close our eyes. In fact, we could let's play with this right now if you'd like I mean, I'm not touching my microphone, I promise. But I have my hand on my heart in my belly and and that's giving me an opportunity to bring attention to my heart and my belly and just not even trying to change Breath, but just noticing what your breath is just this give space to something new. And we can then float, a wonder question like, I wonder what really wants to happen now. Or we can say, Wow, I notice underneath my hands, I'm feeling a lot of sensations. There's a lot of movement and pressure and temperature. And we can just describe it, like, Oh, I feel warm. I feel churning, I feel gerbil in my belly. And that's my fear. And just experience it. And maybe even enjoy that this is me being human. This is how my fear expresses itself. And when we do that, something shifts because we have given our attention to it. And with that space, with that shift, new possibilities arise new choices. Because we're coming from our whole body, our whole brain.
Jamila Souffrant 16:23
Can you maybe describe situations or real life scenarios for a person when it comes to money, and live a life circumstance where they might be experiencing this, like whether it's from a client or something else scenario you want to come up with? That someone could say, oh, yes, whether they're at a bank or talking to your partner, or thinking about something dealing with money, where this will come up, and how they can do what you just said,
Gayle Colman 16:48
let me give you an example of a couple. In couples, there's always differences with money. And that's okay, that's great. So in conflict with a couple, you can, again, recognize that you're going to have conflict, and bring the topic to a conversation, you could even have the conversation be 10 minutes long, and time it. And then you can start the conversation with stating the fact this is what I'm worried about, I'm worried about our credit card debt. And I noticed that I get angry about it, because I judge you and then pause, make a statement, and then come back, hold your body, hold your heart and belly, feel what's going on there and get space and allow your partner to express what he or she wants to wear, they want to express and go with a sense of our awareness and our body. Go back and forth for 10 minutes. And that's a practice where we are not only expressing our fears in in language, in words, but we're also bringing what's going on in our body. What I would do is have a very specific format, where we we express what are our thoughts? What are our feelings? What are my sensations, and what's just going on for me, and then allow the partner to express what's going on for them and go back and forth. Only expressing our own experience. Because what that does is it gets me in tune with what's going on for me and less over and blaming my partner or going into the same argument or conflict that we go into again and again. So this happens with debt, you know, where do we want to invest? How do we, you know, handle the our children's needs. And there's always going to be a difference because we have differences in values and, you know, life experiences where we you know, as you were saying earlier when we grow up or pickled in the brine of our, our parents and actually our whole family lineage. So that's one example. But there's so many and really, it can be as simple as just coming back to our body and feeling what's going on and expressing what's going on there. And that opens up the space to talk about and to skillfully address what's the issue. We all like I call it money things we all have money things.
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Jamila Souffrant 20:32
And when it comes to, let's say, making a decision, so there's one thing like how you feel about maybe a topic, and you feel uneasy about it or unstable and insecure. So that brings up fear. And you sit with that, and you hold that right. And then there are things where we we need to make a decision, or we need to do something like there's an action that needs to be taken. This is usually a typical question I get, but I have money that I need to invest. I know I'm not investing it, but I should. And I've done some research, so I kind of know where I should go with it. But I'm just afraid to take action. And if they were to use this method, just to understand how are they feeling about it fine, there's fear there. But let's just say now they're like, Alright, I'm going to open up this investing account, and I'm going to like make the move. How does someone know following their body and their natural reaction? When they should do something despite maybe feeling uneasy and fear? Versus that's something or a single saying that they shouldn't? And they should stop?
Gayle Colman 21:34
Yeah, well, there are a couple a couple of layers there. And I want to I want to unpack it. The word should, is always one of those gateway threads, right to like, so there's a there's a limiting belief or message there, I should invest this. So we really want to follow that and know, where's that from? Where am I hearing that from? And do I want to invest this? Is there something there that I'm not paying attention to. And we could be scared because that's what we are not paying attention to. So we want to identify those insights and beliefs that we're carrying, that aren't working in our favor currently related to our money decisions, making an investment. We also want to make a distinction between fear and and gaining the insight from that and moving that energy through us or just simply feeling scared. And discomfort. If we do if we're investing for the first time, it may feel uncomfortable. And we can just be aware of oh, this is a new muscle I'm building we can then investing let's say we have $5,000 to invest. And we're, you know, we we get this like it's very, very uncomfortable to invest in entire 5000. Then we say, well, what would it be like? I know what I want to invest in, but I'm scared to put it all in right now. I don't know, what the markets going to do. So how about another strategy that would feel more comfortable, but still be exercising that muscle? So how about $1,000 for the next five months? How does that feel? And then tune into how that feels. So there's always a an adjustment, or a way to I call it like dynamically steering decisions where we're taking a step we're feeling or sensing we're going okay, this is fear. I'm gaining my insights on my limiting beliefs. This is discomfort I'm exercising a muscle. Make sense?
Jamila Souffrant 23:46
It does it does. And you recently talked about this subject money polarities on your blog and that you know, that was interesting considering we live in a world of polarities and what people want to see as really just black and white like there's no gray or in between so can you talk about what that when the polarities are and using them in or navigating them within our lives?
Gayle Colman 24:11
Yeah, I I'd say polarities are a myth. I mean, I am what I mean by that. Is that everything is it shades of gray, we're constantly in motion. We're constantly in a in a that unknown place but we want to feel comfortable. We want to address our fear. And so we take a stance at one end or the other and we hold tight and so that's a polarity and it's so a money polarity is I have to invest I need to invest there's own that's the only way or I will never invest investing is bad. I'm going to spend it all are you and so if we and I noticed my hands are like this, this is you know, because this This gives me the sense of a polarity, it's very rigid, very controlling, and it's filled with fear. And so we want to, first again, be aware of that. This is what we do. Human beings will get rigid, get contracted, be scared, because that's all they know. And so how do we address the fear? Again, we face it, we gain access to our body wisdom, we move through the sensations and feelings, that creates more space. And in that, then we we begin to soften and see that okay, maybe in investing is not such a bad idea, maybe I could invest some. And then we may say, oh, maybe spending is a little bit of a good idea had maybe that is in so we soften. We are moving creatures being human, and enjoying our life is always going to be in the present moment. And fear and polarities are always something that is related to the past, or the future. And when we can be present with everything right now, not only can we enjoy where we are, feel, okay, we can then make a choice, that he is going directly to what matters most to us. And that choice isn't going to be filled with a fear of the past of regret, I haven't done something or a fear of the future of this, that the other is going to happen.
Jamila Souffrant 26:45
To kind of piggyback. It's this idea of being like we are dynamic or flexible, right? We change our minds. And so even though in one moment, we are feeling fear or uncertainty around a subject or something that we're doing it that's that's not what we're going to feel all the time. And I know that in the moment, it feels like that, it feels like it's never going to end like you're always going to feel that way. And it's like that's not true that typically are usually you know, you change your mind, you gain new insight, or you have a different feeling. So that's that idea of, you know, we're not stuck where we are, and we are going, but there's no need to worry about what happened or what you didn't do or what might happen. That may never happen, right?
Gayle Colman 27:30
Yeah, yeah. And if we attend to our emotions, the fear that's moving through us completely, did last 60 seconds. And the more we do that, the more we trust ourselves, the more we build that muscle of, Oh, I've got this. And it becomes part of our way of being. So it's not a one and done. But this is a cumulative. We begin to really inhabit and enjoy and trust our whole body wisdom
Jamila Souffrant 28:09
in creating a comprehensive financial plan for ourselves, what questions or reflections should we be sitting with or thinking about other than I want to pay off this much debt? Or have this much invested? What are some of the questions or points we should be considering to make this plan that we have comprehensive
Gayle Colman 28:28
with some of the interior questions we ask began with some of what George Kinder created many years ago in his seven stages of money maturity, he I see you nodding,
Jamila Souffrant 28:40
I have cited some of his work, especially the was it is the question that you ask about, you know, if you only had 24 hours left or six, what would you do? So but I would love for you to review that if you can,
Speaker 1 28:53
yeah, well, it's a way of there's three scenarios. One is you had all the money you needed. Tell me what your life would be like, you know, and so that it gives us an opportunity to kind of brainstorm about like, what are all the things that I wish I had done? Which I wish I could do? What What obstacles do I see in my life right now. And so it gives us a way to, to present that. And then there's the next question, as you go to the doctor, and you have five to 10 years to live. How does your life change? And so that points to the reality of life is precious and not permanent? We're here for a finite amount of time. And so now what and so that narrow, that begins to say, oh, no, what is more important, what does really matter to me? And the list usually changes that the answer is usually change and, and then the final question is you you have 24 hours. I don't want to know what you're gonna do in the 24 hours, but what are your regrets? Among means in which you had been or have done. And that really gets down to those places that matter most to you, and where we want to focus our choices in our financial planning. And more often than not, it's about our relationships, and our creativity being expressed, and generosity in the world. And so when we are in tune with those, those values, and why we're here answering the big question of Yeah, why am I really here? What do I have to offer the world? Where's my creativity with? What can I offer that no one else can. Because we are all unique human beings, and, and if we don't express it, then it's lost forever. And when we tap into that, I believe there's some kind of light that gets activated. And it stays with us and keep reminding us that, that when we're off course, when we're not attending to it. And so your question about how do you get to that? It's, it's first you review it first, you recognize that, oh, this is what matters to me. And then that keeps getting nurtured because we you revisit it, it's not like you, we do it once in a once and then it's done. It's again, we're dynamically snoot steering on that. I, you know, I like to use the river, stepping into the river, and it's always changing. We're always growing. You mentioned your children. I mean, what a delightful I don't know how old they are, but I mean, they show us, you know, what, this changes and how to be in life. And yeah, I'm just, I'm remembering my kids who are now 30 and 27. And it's a beautiful time.
Jamila Souffrant 32:03
Yeah. And, you know, and and the thing is that in those times, like, because my kids right now they are one just turned five. So five, six, and eight.
Gayle Colman 32:13
Jamila Souffrant 32:14
very, very full of life, and excited and resilient. You know, when I'm upset about something, or, you know, I'm like, oh, man, like, Was I too harsh, just out and like, they are just like, ignoring me, they're having the best time of their life. Like, forget, if mom wants them to, like, get out the door. They are making sure they are living life to the fullest. And like, I look at that man. And it gives me a almost like a blueprint sometimes to remember, like, who I am, right? Like, I knew I was like that. And this is funny. I forgot it was like this video that says, you know, you're getting old, like, because then you start yelling at kids to start running in the house when you were the kid at one time that used to run in the house. And then you're like, What do you yell? You're just like, wait a sec, it like, Oh, I'm becoming like, that person. You remind yourself, this is what kids do. You know, but I think what you said awareness is key. Because I feel like so many people discount how powerful it is just to be aware of something, even if they don't feel like they have the power to change it or they don't like that they're feeling away. I think awareness goes like a long way to bridging the gap between like inaction and then taking action when you are ready. Because whether that is now understanding, while I'm having a physical reaction to something about money, or I know that I don't know this thing. But if you go back to investing, the fact that you even know that you maybe can look into investing, and there's this concept of index funds, whatever concept that you may not have known before, but you are aware of it now. And the fact that you know, this may be a knowledge gap about it is powerful versus not even knowing that it existed before, that kind of want to maybe talk more about how important awareness is even if you don't feel like you're making or taking action right away, that it's a big first step to whatever change you're looking to make.
Gayle Colman 34:09
Yeah, I love that you're bringing this forward and what what's what's coming up for me is the importance of being aware of your okayness in the moment, which I like to define as sufficiency, embodied sufficiency. And how that is the gateway to being able to access that, that freedom because the moment I'm feeling okay, and I'm sufficient, that is an awareness. That's an that's a very keen, awake moment of, I'm here. I'm okay. And then I can be aware in my okayness of not knowing As much as I would like to know about investments, and then from there, that very, I'm gonna say solid and non scared place. So very say empowered place can say I choose to learn about investments. And I'm going to take these next two or three steps to learn more. And to learn as much as you want to learn, and then, and make choices about if you decide to get, you know, professional help or work with somebody in a bank or any institution, it's really about getting aligned with your own integrity and that that awareness that that sufficiency, that okayness is the place that we we all want to be versus coming from a reactive fear base place.
Jamila Souffrant 35:58
As you think back on your, you know, decades in the industry, and how you evolved, and how you talk about money and help your clients, you know, what's like the one advice or if there's one, you can do two or three, if it's see, though, 20 Choose from that you'd want to tell people, or that could help guide people as they continue on wherever they are, at this point in their financial journey.
Gayle Colman 36:23
I think one of the most important things is that you have all the wisdom you need. And your wisdom is the most important wisdom for you. And one of the things that we have backwards in our financial systems is that there's some magic or elusive information outside that we have over here or this place as over here that you don't, it's backwards. And as I say that I've noticed, I've got chills all over my body, I think it's vital that we step into our own sovereignty, our own, knowing that sufficiency that I just mentioned, that's the awareness of I am okay, and I can do this. Moving from that place, makes all the difference in the world. And that's, that's, again, where our joy, our well being our true wealth, lives. It is my wish and prayer and hope that we get to a place in our world where that's how we move with money. Because then I believe our choices are going to be far, far more generous, far more beneficial and wise, for not only ourselves, but the world, the planet, all beings.
Jamila Souffrant 37:55
This beautiful girl, please tell everyone about your book, and where they can find it and then more about your work.
Gayle Colman 38:03
My book is called the body of money. And it's found on it's published by Wiley Publishing, and you can get it at any of the places normal places you normally you will get, you can go to my website somatic finance.com, and access the all of the different places. And my work is really shifting into more writing some different courses. But I really want to bring this message of a better world and moving from our fear base relationship with money to freedom based love based relationship with money. And that's really what I'm up to. I know the numbers are important. And I'm not ignoring them. But I really hope that your listeners get a boost of self confidence and feel that they have a couple more steps to gaining access to their innate wisdom and that that is the most important wisdom right now.
Jamila Souffrant 39:10
Thank you so much, Gail for coming on the podcast. And I do hope that this gives you journeyer confidence in your journey onward to living the life that you desire. So thanks once again, Gail.
Gayle Colman 39:24
Don't forget you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this and you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch.com/jumpstart.
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