Episode 318: Investing for Wealth Accumulation & Exploring Direct Indexing with Rich Compson of Fidelity Investments

Rich Compson 0:02

A lot of information that's available throughout the Internet, whether it be on individual sites or social media sites in the life where you can learn about investing and become an investor because think about it at one point in time, you probably had to pick up the magazine or book or whatever else. But now you can find this information. It's ubiquitous,

Intro 0:23

T-minus 10 seconds. Welcome to the journey to launch podcast with your host jameelah. So frogs as a money expert who wants her talk, she helps brave juniors like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real Whoa. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom 4321.

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Jamila Souffrant 1:33

Hey journeyers Welcome back to the journey to launch podcast or if it's your first time thank you for joining us. I have a special conversation educational conversation up for you next with my special guest Rich Compson.

Rich Compson is the head of the retail Manage Accounts business within personal investing a unit of Fidelity Investments, which is a leading provider of investment management, retirement planning, portfolio guidance, brokerage benefits, outsourcing and other financial products and services to more than 40 million individuals, institutions and financial intermediaries. Mr. Thompson is responsible for Fidelity's 600 plus billion suite of retail wealth and digital managed accounts offerings, which includes Fidelity's portfolio, advisory services, and more. We have Richard on the podcasts are rich as he prefers to be called to let us know all about investing, why we should be investing more and to just hone in a little bit more what fidelity can do for us when it comes to helpful products that help us reach our financial goals. So welcome to the podcast rich.

Rich Compson 2:40

So happy to be here today. And thanks for having me on your show.

Jamila Souffrant 2:43

Yeah, so rich, you know, my audience, my journey errs, as I call them, their primary goal in life is to have time and energy freedom. They want control over their lives and how they spend their time. And they need money to do that. And so working in order to make money to live the lifestyle they want, is great. But it's also investing, right like saving and investing that really allows people to become financially free and to reach the financial goals we have. And based on your bio, you know all about investing. So I'd love for us to talk really about how investing for people listening is the pathway to helping them reach their goals. And then we'll dive a little bit deeper on some options that Fidelity has for people.

Rich Compson 3:32

That'd be great. Put my bio there, I probably should give the version that I share with my family. And my role at Fidelity is to help build solutions to help people reach their financial goals. And whether it's retirement or saving for a home or saving for college. We try to guide people to help people to get to those solutions. So we can talk a bit about the ideas we have to help your your listeners.

Jamila Souffrant 3:55

Yeah, I'd love that. And so because investing, you know, I do believe that most people know investing is important. And but it's surprising, and maybe it's not so surprising why so many people aren't investing or afraid to invest. So let's just demystify, investing, and talk about what it is. And then we can get into the options for people.

Rich Compson 4:18

That's great. And what I like to say even I have I have two kids that are just graduating from college and you know, we have this convert conversation all the time. And you know, what I tried to do is encourage them to start by thinking about saving. And to me the real value of saving and investing is your money can work for you while you're working. So you know you can be putting money in a savings account or in a brokerage account. And it's accumulating value while you pursue your life. And the earlier you can start contributing into savings or an investing account. It just leaves you to longer time for that money to accumulate while you're working. Or you're living here.Life. So starting early to me is it's really helpful. And to your point around sphere, I like to, you know, find ways what are easy ways to get started. And there are some people that are, you know, really excited about investing, and they want to go pick stocks and bonds and do those kinds of things. And but I think for the broad population, they're often looking for simple solutions. And one thing I like to think about is, is there kind of simple turnkey products that help you get started. And those are probably the best ideas and mutual funds you'll hear about as a category. Mutual funds are generally most things that they create a single kind of product you can buy that includes lots of different investments inside it. So with one purchase, you can get exposure and get invested. I think that's a typical way to get started is just to buy something simple, unless you really, really want to jump in and go for buying stocks and the like.

Jamila Souffrant 5:55

Yeah, so I'm so glad you actually brought up your your kids. And I know they're a bit older, my kids are pretty young. They're eight, six, and four. So we have already started, they know that about the concept of money, trying to teach them about this the concept of waiting, right delayed gratification, you just got $50 for your birthday gift. But let's not all spend the money right now what about if you spend half of that and put it away. And so we have been trying to think of creative ways to teach them about investing. But because you do this for a living and are a champion for investing at Fidelity, I would love to know how you personally handled these conversations with your children. You know, what did you teach them when they were growing up about money? And investing? Did they have brokerage accounts? Did you do things with allowance, I would love to get that insider tip from someone who actually has knowledge about this?

Rich Compson 6:46

Well, the first tip I'll give you is when you're when you're in this business, it's even harder to get your kids to talk to you about it like that. I don't want to talk about that. That being said, I mean, I think the key thing that I typically start with is yes, you have them allowances, or even lightweight jobs, like one of my daughters taught violin lessons to other kids. And it really was that sense of responsibility that kind of comes with financial decisions, and then being able to see that money and then even just putting in a savings account. And then thinking about to your point, what are there things in life that they might want in the future, in addition to thinking about things they might need today, what are some of the aspirations and when you're young, some of those things, they don't think about retirement and even college for that matter. But just getting them to extend their their time thinking a little bit beyond the day is where we typically started. As my kids got older, they did open up brokerage accounts. And typically, what I suggested to them, because both of my kids, one is interested in counseling and the other ones that artist, so really not in the financial space. So for them, it was really encouraging them to, to look at really simple solutions. And for example, one of them we have a product at Fidelity called Fidelity Go it's a robo investing product, but you, you can start with basically $1 or very low amount of money and, and we basically take over the investing for you, I think that's a really good place to start for young people just getting in because it's like, all you have to really do is deposit the money, watch it grow. There's a digital experience you can interact with, which I think is helpful. And then other simple products like index funds, where you can say, Oh, well, I may want to buy a set of stocks. But one way to do that is to buy an index fund or something simple

Jamila Souffrant 8:40

As you're talking and you're saying relate it to what the children like now, so my sons and my daughter, they are obsessed with Pokemon cards. And actually, so they're, they're having a career day at their school, and I'm tempted to sign up, I want to sign up because it'd be nice for them to, for me to talk about what I do. And as I'm thinking about, well, you know, how do you captivate the attention of eight year old and six year olds and four year olds talking about money? And so I thought, Okay, what about relating it to Pokemon cards, right? Like, okay, I can buy you, one Pokemon pack today, or five, or we can hold off and buy that one today. And that for the four other ones that we didn't buy, can multiply into 20 or whatever number down the road, right? Like trying to think of scenarios with things that they care about, like you said, they're not they don't care about at this age college retirement be responsible things that US adults still don't care about. So yeah, we're thinking about what can we do to even like draw in the younger people in our lives, or even the older people, where we make things more real and exciting for them based on their their preferences.

Rich Compson 9:43

I really liked that idea. And there's a lot of efforts in the industry to gamify investing to relate it to two other things you do so deferring and saying, Oh, you can have more if you wait. I think that's a great strategy.

Jamila Souffrant 9:57

Yeah, I'm going to use that and say rich agreed with this.

Rich Compson 10:01

you think about what people are doing with NF T's today, it's like similar things. It's like, Yep, I'm going to buy an image of a professional sports player and very good at that I accumulate over time. But, you know, finding ways to get people started is the most important thing. Because I think that your point, it's overcoming that initial inertia, and saying, Oh, this isn't that hard, I can do this. And I can learn from this because investing and saving is a learning experience. And it to me, it's all about what's that first moment you get people started to capture interest, so you want to capture interest early. And then they can evolve to the more complicated aspects or maybe more technical, or less interesting aspects of investing over time.

Jamila Souffrant 10:43

Right? And I think too, breaking down investing, and talking about it in plain terms about their different options, right? So there's long term investing for retirement and long term goals, where you invest in something and you keep it there indefinitely. You don't need it for decades and decades down the road. And then there's that kind of short term investing where you're looking to gain a profit. Can you talk a little bit more about the differences in that and maybe the approaches based on like, what someone should be looking at? Because what I find is that people, when we talk about investing, they're like, oh, so then I should go trade stocks, like that's investing? And then, you know, I'm financially sound, and it's like, but are you taking care of the long term investing for your long term needs? And most people aren't? So can we just break that down a little bit? What I think is most important is long term investing. But why people should be aware that there are different types of investing.

Rich Compson 11:34

Yeah, that's a great question. I'll go back to my my kids. And you know, starting in the work world and thinking about life, and the first thing I think about from a savings perspective is, you know, you're just beginning your journey and in a job and earning and one of the things that I have my suggest to my kids is, first thing I want to do is make sure you have security in your day to day. So we often call them out that they call that in the industry is an emergency fund, how do I have some extra savings if something happens along the way? Maybe your phone breaks, and you need to get a new phone, and some of these things are relatively pretty expensive these days? Or if they start to drive and they have a car, and then you get something fixed? It's like, how do you have that little bit of savings around. So when those events happen to you in life, that you feel prepared and you feel comfortable? So I like to think about just, you know, making sure you have that four set of savings available. And when it relates to what do you invest that in, because you're saving kind of for that emergency, you want that money available. So you want to have it invested in a savings account or in a brokerage account, you might use what they call as a money market fund, which is basically a short term investment, it's like cash, but it gives you a little bit of interest. So you get a little bit of that interest in in earnings, but you also have that money available for any emergency that might come up. Once you have kind of that core emergency savings in place. And obviously something a lot of people are in a position where they're paying down some debt too, and you want to make sure that you can do that, then you can think about saving. And I then start to think about well, what is the time horizon that you're then saving for. And if it's a young investor, maybe it's I want to save for a car, save for a house and you know, that's four or five years out, you want to think about something you can save and that you feel pretty good about, it will grow and you'll have access in over that timeframe. Or then if you think about well, I want to save for a house or something that's longer out than you think about that timeframe. And as you have longer term savings goals, that's where you can think about investing in things that involves a little bit more risk. And when I say risks, that means they they generally probably will go up in value over time. But they might have more movement going up and down. And you know, that's more appropriate for a long term investment. Because you don't think about you don't worry about the short term up and down value of something. Because you're investing for long term as compared to something you might be saving for in the near term where you want to have that value be more stable.

Jamila Souffrant 14:13

Right? Yeah, I love thinking about or getting people to reframe the time horizon when you need the money. And what that looks like for them. And it's gonna be in every individual, right? It's different because we all have different goals about what we're what we're trying to do with our money and our life. You talked a bit about mutual funds before and index funds, can he just go back there and give like a definition of what that means and talk about the evolution of what it means to people like regular everyday people investing in the options that are are out there for us now.

Rich Compson 14:45

Sure. And maybe I'll start with even the basic level of back in the day, you would start off by just saying well, I want to buy an individual stock. So I might say I want to buy Apple as a stock or Google as a stock or, you know, buying individual stock. I mean, I think when you buy individual stocks, I mean, you've seen the stock stock market these days, individual stocks can go up and down pretty dramatically over time. And by the way, we all don't have the expertise to know which stock to buy. Because we might say, well, I, I like Apple or like Google, I like whatever, because I know those products. But understanding how those, those stocks are going to behave over time requires some deeper knowledge. So the advent of mutual funds was really to two things. One, you can buy a basket of stocks, that allows for a more diverse investments, you're not subject to any one individual stock moving as much anymore. It's a category of stocks that might be moving together. And then you also have a professional manager, that's actually picking the stocks in that mutual fund. So it gives you a broad set of investments, and you can still maybe put in $100, or whatever you want to invest and you get access to a broad set of stocks. And they're managed by somebody. And then mutual funds kind of break into a couple of big types, they'll start with somewhere that person is actively investing, they're saying, Well, if I want to invest in this stock, or that stock in this portfolio, or index investing where index investing, you're largely buying all the stocks that are in an index. So if you say The s&p 500, you're largely your portfolio looks like all the stocks in the s&p 500. So you know, you basically get the returns of what you might see on the news on the market every day. So, you know, that's kind of the beginning of mutual funds. And index investing was really about helping individuals say I want to invest a certain dollar amount, but I want to have a broad access to a set of stocks or investments and have someone helped me with that, versus having to buy those stocks individually. So when I think about like what's right for different people, if you're like, the person that likes to research and understand stocks, you know, buying individual stocks is great. If you more wanted to say, Well, I just want to have my money grow. And I want to feel like someone's doing that for me, then buying a mutual fund or an index fund is a good way to go.

Jamila Souffrant 17:04

Right? And for me, you know, just to give you an example, as a busy mom and entrepreneur, and I just love the concept, and the fact that we have access to things like mutual fund and index investing, because for many people, like you said, and I'm sure you you could probably give us like a brief history. But some of these products were not available to the average retail investor, right? Like a normal person like 30 years ago, maybe I don't know, you can probably correct me if I'm wrong can just have access to this. And I think with the the evolution of technology, and where you can like do it online, I mean, at some point, you have to probably you have to go in and to the actual, like investment bank, right to buy a stock. Someone said I saw online, you know, how do people buy airplane tickets before the internet, I mean, they had to like probably go to the airport, this is to the airport and or make that like beyond the telephone line to do that. So any history, you can give us a sense of how far we've come based on like our investing opportunities that you can share.

Rich Compson 18:05

Yeah, it's you're right, and technology has evolved so quickly, in front of our eyes. But to your point, like, back in the day, you would go to a stockbroker, and you probably pay 100 plus dollar Commission to buy a share of stock. And in that was that. And then we had online brokerage companies start up like Fidelity and Schwab and others, and you could then buy individual stocks online. And the price dropped dramatically over time, I remember when it was, you know, as low as $9. And with the $5. And now it's effectively free. Or you can buy individual stocks online. And same with mutual funds, you can, you know, you can use to go to a broker for those as well. And you can buy mutual funds online as well. And there's been a couple innovations that allow that to happen. One is just digital experiences and the ability to just buy these products on your phone and through a digital application. And then what you probably don't see every day is in the background, automated trading to be able to really trade super efficiently and digitally send orders into markets, because the end of the day stocks and mutual funds and etc, are traded in the background, these markets, and that's been highly automated as well to bring the cost of investing down tremendously and make it much more accessible. So, you know, technology has really been at the forefront of this change. And I would add to that. Also just the amount of information that's available throughout the Internet, whether it be on individual sites, or social media sites or the like where you can learn about investing and become an investor because think about at one point in time, you probably had the pickup magazine or book or whatever else, but now you can find this information. It's ubiquitous. It's out there. So I think technology really has changed the way we approach investing today.

Yes. And we now have something that's even newer to the marketplace, which is called Direct Investing. For the retail customer, can you talk about what that is and how fidelity is handling this new product? Sure. So I'll go back to indexing for a minute. So if you think of buying an index fund, and I'll use the example of the an s&p Index Fund, you basically have a fund where you're owning all the stocks in the s&p and you're performing, you know, your account will grow and over time and track that index, there was the advent of ETF investing, which is very similar to the index fund, but the difference is an index fund, you kind of gets priced at the end of the day, and you get the closing market price, whereas an ETF is priced during the day. So if you want to buy it at two o'clock in the afternoon, you get the two o'clock price, what direct indexing is, is again, an advancement of technology where you can actually buy the underlying security than the index. So if I go to the example the s&p, you can buy a set of stocks that replicate the s&p 500, you might not buy all 500, you actually can buy a subset of that. So you may be 100 or 200, stocks that largely have the same returns as the s&p because over time, as you add more stocks, the returns get very similar. So you can buy the individual stocks that make up that and when you do that in one purchase, you'd say, I want to buy the US direct index product, and you would own all those stocks. And what these services do is then buy and sell those individual stocks that keep them in line with that index over time. So you'd say well, why am I one of those stocks? In my account? is a good question. And there's, there's a couple of key benefits. One is if you said Well, I'd like to get us indexed, but maybe I want to personalize it in some way. And once you know, there, there could be I want to exclude an industry, maybe I want to keep certain industry out or I want to focus on industry or, you know, ESG, or environment, environmental investing is is popular, you can do something like that, where you apply a certain lens of yours on an Excel personalization is one thought. The other thing is, is around creating tax savings over time. So if you're investing in a brokerage account, that you pay taxes over time, so not a retirement investment account, but a taxable brokerage account, one of the things you can do with these products is as the markets moving up and down, we as the investment manager, if we see a stock that's dropped in value, we may sell that and capture the loss of that and then reinvest the stock, you'll still get the same return as the market. But now we've taken that loss, and we've given is a way for you to apply that against your investment earnings at the end of the year, is a way to recapture some of your taxes you might have paid. So when you break down the individual stocks, the stock market might be going up. But in any given day, there can be stocks that are going up and stocks are going down, you take advantage of those individual stocks that might be going down to create those losses to use it to offset taxes in the future. So again, the big, big aspect of direct indexing is if you want to personalize and create your own personalized index is one value and the second value is getting some incremental tax savings over and over time, particularly if you're you're paying taxes on your investments.

Jamila Souffrant 23:26

And you know, I think it's important to highlight the ability to choose the underlying investments. Because as you said, like ESG investing, so people who are who want to be more socially conscious or environmentally conscious about where they invest in the companies that they invest in, I know that I've heard from people who want to invest that, you know, well, yeah, I like index funds. I like low cost, non managed index funds are great, but I you know, I don't I don't like all the companies that are in that index. And so this does seem like a an opportunity for people who want to just to be a part of capitalism, but do it in the most responsible way that they feel they can to be able to do something so and I also want to talk a bit about the tax harvesting, because that's what that's called right?

Rich Compson 24:11

Tax loss harvesting. Yep.

Jamila Souffrant 24:12

Yeah, tax loss harvesting, and how that differs. So I'd love to do a comparison. So direct investing allows you to do tax loss harvesting throughout, like more often, versus not doing it until the at the end of the life of the investment. What's the difference?

Rich Compson 24:29

Yeah, so when I think about tax loss harvesting, you know, you could do it once a year if you wanted to, you would basically say I want to do it sometime during during the year make or make a choice. I think one of the key things is if you're buying an index on the index fund might go up throughout the year, so you might not really have an opportunity to to capture a loss. But if you're direct indexing and you're buying the components of all the stocks in the index, those move up and down day to day so you really if you're tracking. Have those stocks day to day, you have the ability to capture loss losses along the way. If not, you'd have to be watching if you're buying an index fund for a day that it went down to kind of capture, capture that loss. What we've built in the background and other technology provider other investment providers have is, we track every stock in your portfolio every day, and we're looking for the movement. And we also understand what you purchased it at what price you purchased it at. So we know every day whether you're at a gain or loss on an individual stock. And you know that technology has really allowed us to do daily evaluation of a customer's portfolio and look for those tax losses. Now, you might not trade an account every day, but you're at least evaluating it every day. And typically, you're probably trading that that account every month or so. But you do want to watch out for a concept called wash sales. But generally you're looking at the account every day. And again, your earlier comments around technology, that's really an advancement that will allow a technology advancement that allows you to do that, I think the other thing that's new is, you can now buy fractional shares of a stock. So before, you might say if a stock was priced at $200, you'd have to have $200 to invest, just even buy that one stock. Now you can buy fractional shares of a stock. So instead of thinking about buying a whole stock, you can say, Oh, $200, I'm gonna invest in a little bit of a lot of stocks with that, that money and fractional shares allows you to do this direct indexing, for a lower dollar amount, you can get access to a lot of stock. So really two innovations that have happened there. One is this ability to trade and monitor individual portfolios throughout every day, and then using fractional shares to buy smaller increments to make it more affordable for most customers.

Jamila Souffrant 26:47

And so with fidelity, you have a product called the key talk about the product that directly helps people get involved with this type of investing. And then just some of the things we should know about. So like the cost or the fee to do that. And who is this product? Right for?

Rich Compson 27:04

Yeah, great question. And so the product we have is called Manage fit folios. And, you know, what you can do is an investor, it's a it's a digitally invested product. So it's available on our website, what you have as a choice of will, what index Do you want to start with, to, to replicate? So you can you can look at US stocks or international stocks, you can also we have an environmental portfolio. So if you wanted to build a portfolio that was environmentally conscious, or looking at companies that you know, overall have a lower carbon footprint, or like you can pick an environmental version, then you can go in and personalize the portfolio to the example to say, well, I may want to exclude certain stocks or certain industries, maybe I own a stock someplace else, I don't want to buy that in this portfolio. And then you enroll, and you're now in the service, and you choose how much you would like to invest and stay, you pick your investment level, and then we will buy you into that portfolio and then start trading that portfolio over time and giving you those both keeping your your portfolio in line with the investment choice that you made, as well as doing that tax loss harvesting along the way. And then well, how do you know how you're doing on your portfolio there? Again, on our website, there's a landing zone that tells you how your account has performed over time will show you the tax savings you've accumulated year to date. And you you have that full digital experience. And so your question on investing right now the minimum for investing in this account is $5,000. I suspect as technology advances over go down over time, this product has been available to customers with more wealth historically. So these products were available through buys advisors, but typically the minimum was $100,000. So this use of fractional shares, and then digital experience is not making the product available to many more more investors. And the fee is point 4%. Typically, what we see from investors is the tax savings you get over time, tends to outweigh the fee. So that's the value that you're getting. So you're getting that index like experience, but with the tax savings and personalization that you can have. And again, we started this product line more through our advisors, historically. So we've been these products have been out there since 2011. But the the new product management management folios that we launched, was really making digitally accessible for a lower investment value. And that's what we launched in the last year.

Jamila Souffrant 29:39

And who would you say this type of product is right for that they should consider maybe looking into it.

Rich Compson 29:45

I think for someone that's saving for a longer term investment because it does involve risk and in your investing in the stock market. So if you were considering index funds or mutual funds that like that were exposed to the stock market. From a time horizon perspective, that's the right investor to think about. And then the second aspect I'd say is, if you're in a situation where you have a tax rate where you're paying taxes on your investments, I think that's another key aspect. You wouldn't necessarily want to do this in a retirement account because the taxes are deferred. But if you're investing in a taxable account, and then if you have a desire to personalize and create a personalized index, and really tailor the product and service to your personal needs, whether it be ESG, environmental, or just excluding specific stocks and industries, that's how it makes sense, we really look at it as a product that complements and sits sits beside index and ETFs other products and services we have, but for those customers that have those additional needs.

Jamila Souffrant 30:48

Right, and, you know, I think you brought up before, it's a category, it's an option for people. And I think while you know, everyone listening, may not need to or want to do this, I think the the introduction of this is important that they know that something out there like this exist. And then for the people who actually this is right for it's an opportunity for them to go and follow up and look more into it. Because as we mentioned before, you know, some of these products have been exclusively not available to certain investing groups. And while for some people 5000 is still a limit above what they have, I do feel that it for some people it is it's a sweet spot. And then I would assume as time goes on, we'll find that some of these products even become more accessible.

Rich Compson 31:34

I think that's right, even when we look at some of the robo investing products, you know, they all started with higher minimums, but effectively, they're the minimums have gotten close to zero. So, you know, as technology advances, and scale advances, I think we'll continue to see these products become even even more broadly accessible. And, and that's our goal is to really help as many investors as we can, or as many savers as we can. Important thing is how to help people get started because you know that time is your friend with investing the The earlier you can get started in a let your investments accumulate over time, how do we help people get started. And as we can bring minimum investments down over time, that just makes it easier for people to get invested. So that's our key goal.

Jamila Souffrant 32:22

All right, rich, please tell everyone where they can find out about fidelity, manage fit folios?

Rich Compson 32:27

Well, a couple of ways to do it. One, you could go to fidelity.com, and search under products. And there's a category called direct indexing, and you can find the product there. The other way to do is just pick your favorite browser and put in fidelity management folios. And you'll help right to the lake and into our site. So it's a great product to explore. And you can look at other solutions as well.

Jamila Souffrant 32:48

All right, thanks so much, Rich.

Rich Compson 32:50

Thanks for me on your show today.

Outro 32:54

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