Episode 307- Building Legacy Wealth & The Road To Economic Empowerment With Dr. Pamela Jolly REWIND

Dr. Pamela Jolly 0:03

What's the one thing that you can afford to do right now? Because if you do something that wins, some people don't need a check to be able to help you get to the next level. And so do something. Don't sit here and tell me what you can't do. Do something. Literally. That's what I want to encourage everyone do something save $1 You might not be able to save 10,000 But save $1 Because the dollar is more worth more today than will ever be tomorrow, do something.

Intro 0:31

T minus 10 seconds. Welcome to the journey to launch podcast with your host jameelah. So frogs as a money expert who rocks her talk, she helps brave juniors like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in three two one.

Jamila Souffrant 1:00

Hey, hey, hey, journeyers Welcome to the journey to launch podcast. This episode will be a real wind episode. I'm resharing episode 143. It's a conversation that I had with Dr. Pamela jolly. And the title is in was building legacy wealth and the road to economic empowerment. I'm excited to reshare this episode because I have so many great conversations over 200 Something episodes. And you may not have heard this, or maybe you forgot, but this is one of the conversations that I want you to really listen to if you can. And I'm excited to share what we'll be talking about. We're going to talk about how to define wealth for yourself. What is the wealth reset and why it matters, the difference between venture capital and private equity, and how long it takes to build legacy and why you can quickly lose it if you are not careful. So you know, this is Black History Month, also the first week of Black History Month if you're listening to this in real time, and I thought this would be a really powerful conversation. And what I love about this and what I hope is that even though this conversation was recorded a couple of years ago, it's still relevant today. And I really hope you gained something from this. I'll be back with some brand new episodes starting next week, a special solo episode, celebrating my birthday that's coming up. So you don't want to miss it. Make sure you're following the podcast still tag me at journey to launch on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook if you are listening. Even though this is a rewind, I'm watching and watching to see who's listening. And I love to hear your feedback and comments. So let's get into it.

Intro 2:44

If you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to journey to launch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. In the show notes. You'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned and so much more. Also, whether you are in OG journey or are brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes, so listen to stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources and so much more. You can go to journey to launch.com/jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Jamila Souffrant 3:25

journey as I am so delighted to bring you this conversation. I've heard Dr. Pamela jolly on a couple of my other favorite podcasts. I first heard you, Dr. Pamela on Ireland's podcasts on your first million and then the kala side hustle Pros podcast so and your conversations were so enlightening and amazing. And you were talking about you were able to like bridge the gap between so many different I would say like roads, but then they all like came together and made sense faith finance, our history in this country, building wealth, legacy wealth. And I was like I mean, she she has to just come on this podcast. So I welcome you wholeheartedly the journey to launch podcast. And I'm so excited to have everyone here, what you're about to teach us. So welcome.

Dr. Pamela Jolly 4:09

Thank you. And I'm really honored that you asked me to come on here. I'm very proud of all the things that you've done. And always love to talk about this subject with people who are as enlightened and excited about it as I am and that's definitely you, Janelle.

Jamila Souffrant 4:22

Yes. And I always like to chat a little bit with guests before I press record. And actually we were talking a little bit. I was like, Wait, we just had to start recording because everything you said even when everything was recorded, I was like, what's already going in my mind. So your background, I definitely want to go into that. But one of the things you mentioned before we pressed record before you talked about this journey to wealth, and now currently we're talking about like this reset, can you just explain what you said before?

Dr. Pamela Jolly 4:48

So I see things in patterns. And the narrow road which is the methodology that I created, which helps people build a better relationship with wealth is a meta pattern, which is the pattern within a pattern within a pattern. And so one of the patterns that I found was in my dissertation, which was this 40 year journey between Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, and President Barack Obama. But I also found this bigger pattern, which was a 400 year journey from 1619, to 2019. And that's nothing new because other people recognize that pattern as well. But I tie that pattern to another pattern that I found in my favorite book, which is the Bible, which is found in Genesis 1513, through 15. And that Bible verse says, For 400 years, your descendants will be strangers in a country, not their own. And they will be enslaved and mistreated there. And I'm going to paraphrase, but in the end, they will come away with great wealth. And so what I've done is saying, Okay, that was 1619 to 2019 2020, is the wealth reset, it's time for us to come away with great wealth, to take a look at the legacy of what the American business model teaches us for the last 400 years, and to look for the hidden treasure in our individual and collective legacy, and reset the equity table so that everyone can participate. And we can learn how to build wealth our way by elevating our standard of business.

Jamila Souffrant 6:14

Yeah, that's amazing. And so I want to definitely talk about your this framework, then our road and how you teach wealth. But let's go back a little bit, because you talked about one of your favorite books being the Bible, but your background leads you right, like your education background, your experience in the business world all leads us to this, I do want to like touch upon that, what got you first excited about building wealth? Because you know, a lot of people growing up, they may say, like, yes, I want to be wealthy. But it's another thing to actually do that and then teach others how to do that. What was that road like for you personally?

Dr. Pamela Jolly 6:47

Yeah, it started with my family. You know, my I was raised by two parents who said, you have to do better than we have done for you. And so there was always this expectation of progress. And then I had grandparents who invested in me, my first two investors in my company, were my grandmother's. And then I had a grandfather, who was always saying, I'm putting a piece of money in your hand, so that you will put a piece of money in the bank. And so there was this constant conversation about life and legacy and money and of course, faith, but it was an expectation. And I'm a child that colors within the lines, you know, I take things that my parents and family has said to me, literally, so when they said Do not embarrass me, and show thyself approved, and get a good education. I did it. And so that's really where this whole thing started. But then I became a banker after Hampton University. And I started to really understand once and I sat in a pit for 18 months and underwrote spreads. That's what we called it, and really learned how to underwrite deals, and really learn to see who was successful, who wasn't successful. And then after I graduated from that program, I became a banker. And some of my favorite clients were organizations that represented communities that cared about historically black colleges, the divine nine, but I also had clients that were represented America, you know, I was able to work on the RNC and the DNC and the Holocaust Museum. And there were patterns, there were differences in the ways in which the business was handled on both sides. And so it just became a recurring thing that I noticed. Once I got to business school, I wanted to go into private equity. And I really wanted to help more people of color, leverage equity, to grow. I'm blessed to have a mentor Stanley Tucker, who I call the godfather of black private equity. And so literally, from the beginning, I was able to really understand what private equity could do, if you understood Dec equity. But if you look at the legacy of our businesses, we're often focused our meeting African American businesses, we're often focused on that, because that's what we know the most. And so I wanted more of us to understand equity. But I started to realize the differences in the relationship you have to have with people when you accept equity, and venture capital and private equity is very different. And so we didn't use those words. But if we don't own that vernacular, what those words really mean, it's difficult for us to be able to apply them to after business school, I went back into the financial services area, and I worked at large companies and small companies. And my last job was in corporate America was a market research strategist. And that's when I started to see the power of data and the power of patterns of how people feel. And yes, we are more alike than different. But if you have a cultural competency of the culture that you come from, you have a new way to look at data that other people don't have. And I definitely had that. So I left corporate America, because I wanted to do something about what I hated. What I hated was that relative to the contributions that African Americans have made in America, we didn't own enough and I wanted us to be able to have our own sense of independence. So I wanted to, in some way contributed to the change of that. Torch enterprises stands for passing the torch from one generation to the next to build legacy wealth. I wanted to partner with my Wharton and my Hampton classmates, and by our parents and grandparents companies, and elevate the standard of that business to institutional level so that our friends and our children and our grandchildren could become shareholders of a vision whose time had come. That was the original vision of torch, it hasn't changed much. But the realities of where we were in terms of wealth creation, business, ownership and investment, were things that I had to face. And so it forced me to realize that if I wanted that to happen, sometime in our future, we all had to understand the business of ourselves, and how to become investors, and how to work together to be able to elevate our standard.

Jamila Souffrant 10:51

Yeah, and as you talk about your experience in the corporate world, in banking, and you seeing the behind the scenes of how companies raise capital, and increase their equity in the value of what they were building, and then on the other side, seeing the lack of that, and the African American community, seeing that just personally, for people like the translation, or maybe even someone who's working in the field of finance, right is like not even personally able to manage their finances to build legacy wealth. When you started to see like, the gap, what was missing? You know, you talk about your company, helping to bridge that gap was the next steps that someone should take. So if someone's listening to this know, like, yeah, I definitely know there's a gap here. I know, I see the discrepancy. I know why need to build wealth, this is the time to reset and reclaim, well, what does that look like for someone?

Dr. Pamela Jolly 11:45

Yeah, so I want to just first reiterate that I don't focus on the gap. I really don't. I think wealth is a group process. But it's a cultural, it's a matter of perspective. And so I really ask everyone to first define wealth for themselves, and not to ignore the fact that there is a part of wealth that is financial, but wealth is more than money. For me, wealth is a fulfilled life. I've interviewed poor people, or people who have relatively low levels of assets and wealth, and I have interviewed extremely wealthy people. And the commonality is, it couldn't be limited to the happiness factor, but I call it the joy factor. Do you love what you do? Do you love who you do it with? And do you have a long term vision for your future? Some people are so wealthy, but they can't see past the money to what the life is really all about. I remember when I was an undergrad, I made a lot of money in undergrad as a commissioned sales associate. But I work so hard, I couldn't enjoy it. That's not Well, that's rich, you know, that's being able to work hard and make a lot of money. But wealth is to be able to enjoy what you have with the people that you enjoy being with. So that is why it is so important that we all elevate our standard of business to wealth, because there are some people that people want to enjoy their life with, but those people can't afford. And they limit it to the financial means. Because they haven't built a definition of wealth and what matters. A lot of people say, Well, what do you value, I want to take it a little bit further and put a business model around our values, and call that wealth. You know, so we can abide by a system of valuing each other as wealth builders. I mean, it's beyond a vacation. It's a legacy building opportunity. And so that's what I really want people to look at, and focus on.

Jamila Souffrant 13:33

So can you give an example of that, right? So like a value system? Yeah, I would assume that most people, including myself, value time with family, for me, as a mom, like I value the time with my kids. So at some point for me, the money is not as important as the time. I mean, time is more valuable than money, you can't get that back, you can't earn more of it. You could buy some of it that I guess, in the sense of if you have enough to pay someone to do things for you, but you know, if so someone's just chasing money, because a lot of people who may be listening may say, well, I need to earn more, right? Like there is a certain level at which I can pay my bills, right?

Dr. Pamela Jolly 14:06

And statistics show that you do. I mean, we do need your money.

Jamila Souffrant 14:10

But how can we focus more on the joy factor so that in the midst of the journey to wealth and your goals, you can live a wealthy life, it's not about the bank, what's in the bank account or what you accumulated on paper?

Dr. Pamela Jolly 14:24

Yeah, so the first step is to take ownership of the business of you the primary purpose of business is to build wealth, right? You have to define wealth, but you got to do what you have to do to be able to afford to do what you want to do. And so that's why this budget piece is so important, because so many people feel like they aren't living the life that they deserve. But they haven't costed it out. Right, because if you cost out the life that you want to have for your children and your grandchildren, you start to learn why it's important to prioritize retirement. You start to learn why it's important to save for the future. If you value spending too time with your family beyond the hours that a restaurant is open, you would value owning a house large enough for all of them to participate in your annual gatherings, your monthly gatherings, whatever that is. So when you start to define wealth for yourself based on what matters for yourself, and then put a business model around it, what it costs to maintain it, to own it, to build it to grow it, you start to realize, Wow, this is what the business of me needs to look like. And then you can take inventory. Okay, what am I good at? What will the market pay for that, and your generation is in a really exciting time, because before the markets were very limited in industries, if you didn't work for a certain corporation, you didn't have access to a certain market. Now we've got platforms, we've got a gig economy, we've got this whole pledge towards entrepreneurship. This is a reset. It's a resurgence of opportunities. In the African American community, there's something called the economic detour. The economic detour, was first talked about from Booker T Washington. And so you know, the the biggest benefit of being an American was access to the markets, the free markets. But African Americans based on segregation, we didn't have access to those markets, we were forced to do business with ourselves. And there were two types of segregation. I call it the Alabama segregation, and the Memphis of segregation. In Alabama, we couldn't do business with white people. But we also couldn't do business with ourselves. But in Memphis, specifically, we couldn't do business with white people. But we could do business with each other. When you look at the black millionaires, who have ceded the expectation of wealth across this country, many of not most of them came from Memphis, because when we have a concentrated thing, Kelly Miller called it well, I call it a closed loop economic circle. But Kelly Miller, who edited Booker T Washington, and web to voices work, realize it's a both and you have some people who are earners in enterprises that they do not own. And you have some people that are owners and enterprises that they do know. But what if we could connect the dots with the people who work for other people who have consistent income, could invest in the businesses that are seeking to build an infrastructure in their own communities and hire people in those communities, those businesses would prosper and big pay a return on investment. And you would have even wealthier intrapreneurs. And the entrepreneurs would be an asset in your own community. That's the prayer that I want us to have. I want us to reset our communities for the businesses that they are and balance the equation so that we participate in wealth building opportunities in our communities, we just don't rent there, or live there or travel back there. After we work somewhere else. We got to take ownership of where we are. And the last thing I'll say about to that point, you talked about time, my grandmother would say the only thing that God's not making any more of is time and land. So steward both appropriately. And so we think about that, listen, I love my family reunions, I just would wish that we could have it in a hotel that protect perhaps we owned, or CO owned, or owned for that month, or did something in terms of a family stakeholder, a family compound. So there are things that we can do by elevating the standards of our business if we start to prioritize those things, as if they mattered to our future and our hope.

Jamila Souffrant 18:25

Yeah, and I love that there's places for the intrapreneurs. So someone who's working for someone else, because not everyone's meant to have their own business and live this life and be entrepreneur and that there's ways in which working together, you can build wealth, and that it's not just a benefit for black people and African Americans. But there's benefits like everyone. Are you familiar with Sean rock Chester's work, the book, The Black tax?

Dr. Pamela Jolly 18:49

No, I'm not.

Jamila Souffrant 18:50

Oh, I would love for you to check that out. So he was on the podcast, he talked about the economic impact of the last 400 years. Why we own so little bit of wealth today. And he had really concrete solutions about what we could do about it. And one of the things that stood out for me in the interview was, he said, for the most part, like we need to do business with each other. But it's not just that, right? Like, yes. And I said to him, like, yeah, we need to do business with each other. But then other people, other backgrounds, other races, and cultures also need to frequent black businesses. Like we can do it. And I would love to hear your point on this. But we need also everyone else to buy into that. And so one of the things he said was like, you know, like when we had the Black Lives Matter, like marches and movements, which is super important, and we had allies from other races, like helping us in joining us, he was like, it would have been more powerful for those allies to buy something like from a black person or frequent a black business. So it's I would love to hear your thoughts on that.

Dr. Pamela Jolly 19:48

So there's there's two ways I want to answer that question, and I'll do it quickly. The first thing is that I was raised by a dad who said that black and white don't matter if you understand green, and my grandmother said that all God does is create an as green to literally like, it's important for us to have black businesses, but I want our businesses to participate in whatever markets they participate in. And so the color of the person who purchases it matters little. It's really about how are you meeting your market? And what are you looking at it for. The other thing that I want us to think about is a dear friend of mine, Andre Perry at the Brookings Institute, after I've met him, I was like, Oh, my goodness, I have to read more and more of his work. And then when I was reading on the site, there was an article that talked about horizontal and vertical inequality. And I want the African American community to read that article. Because it is not an either or it's a both and, and so quickly, horizontal inequality and vertical inequality represent the left and the right of our society. So the left side, right, which is the vertical inequality, which I want you to think about is What city do you live in? And I want you to go through the layers of why certain people you care about may or may not be in the middle class in your community. Right. So is it education? Is it healthcare? Is it jobs? Is it unemployment, underemployment, low savings? What is that, and as you go deeper and deeper into one city, let's say I live in Philadelphia, and we start to really examine what's going on. That's vertical inequality. And largely what they call vertical inequality is social justice, where they say we want social justice. Well, that's a key word for vertical inequality. But here's the thing about vertical inequality, very important. But it's a both and I think we need to also consider horizontal inequality. Because what I have seen after working in over 93 cities across the country is that our problems are more alike than different. And what excites me about that is if we can get it right, in a Detroit, we can get ready to Cleveland, we can get it right into Cincinnati. Well, that's more about horizontal inequality. It looks at where are the systems broken in various areas? And how do we legislate and create policies that over time will address these voids in these gaps? Why the both end because I can see charismatic, powerful people in their own cities getting funded to address a problem, that's going to take a longer term time to address. And so after the grant has gone, and after that person has moved on, oftentimes, that was just a great idea. And it doesn't bear fruit for the long haul. If you want to for the long haul. We've got to look at a horizontal inequality framework. How do we get legislation policy funding on the books of the state and federal budget to address some of the things that are creating the problems that we have? I think in the reset, we've got to look at the bigger business and how it impacts our smaller business to be able to move forward.

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Jamila Souffrant 23:46

Now more about just like the reset, right, so now we're in a time, as you say where we can reclaim and build wealth. Let's talk about what that looks like. So does that mean building or more businesses? I know frequenting more people of color businesses, African Americans, but like what does that really look like? What does building wealth goodness, this time look like for us?

Dr. Pamela Jolly 24:09

So here's the one of the biggest takeaways from my research. It takes three generations to build legacy wealth, and only one generation to lose it. But if four generations can stay connected together, we can make wealth a standard. There are four generations living today. So the first thing that you can do to come away with great wealth from the last 400 year journey is to recognize that the wealthiest population in our community, which is largely my grandparents generation, which are called boomers, or parents of boomers, it's a combination of the two, over $30 trillion is transferred from them to the millennials. And so if you don't have a relationship with the elders in your family, I'm asking you to wake up don't sleep. Many of them are owners, and have been owners since post emancipation, yet less than 20% of them have wills. So you want to build wealth your way go and have a conversation with an elder about what they own. Because in researching with that generation, many of them don't have wills left, because they don't know what it will do. They don't want their family to fight about it while they after they die. And so we've got to build better relationships amongst ourselves so that we can come away with great wealth. African Americans in America First Capital, before they make capital first traded before they ever were traded, did do some phenomenal things in America with ownership. The problem is it doesn't pass on from generation to generation. So build a stronger relationship with your family would be the step one. I have a family and I've got family who own property that they've owned property for seven generations. I got young cousins who would love to live on that land, we have to have conversations about that. We have to be about our family business, because everybody has one. And so yes, we have to build more businesses. Yes, we have to own more things. But the first business I want you to own is the business of you. I want to take greater ownership of the jolly business, the horn business, the Watkins business, because those are the businesses that took three generations or more to build. And only one generation, I'm not acknowledging that makes us have to start from scratch.

Jamila Souffrant 26:24

Yeah, it's that's such a good point. Because I often hear, even in my own family, the conversation around wills and estate planning is not always taken best. You know, it's always some avoidance going on some not really realizing or believing that they are getting older. And this may happen. And I'm always just baffled, because I know that they wouldn't want it to go to someone else or now is just in ruined because no one understands what to do with it because it was no will. But I'm always just baffled about the resistance there. And part of me just feels like I don't know, maybe they don't understand it in the same way about the wealth part like they don't understand the wealth part of it like what this could do for the family.

Dr. Pamela Jolly 27:04

Well, let me help you. Because that's how the narrow road starts by teaching that there is different generational relationships with money. And as a result, different generational definitions of wealth, the first generation creates the foundation with work hard work, hard work and determination. The second generation can now build upon that with advanced education and social networks. The third generation can now grow that with ownership equity partnerships, and the inherited relationships so that the fourth generation can expand it with the stored up equity in the family business or even the family network. So you know, when I think about the jollies at one time, just botanic, Virginia was 30%. Owned by jollies, we own the supermarket, a taxi company, all of these things. Joseph jolly was the eldest jolly, and he appeared white. And so when the slave masters would come to his house, he would put his black family members in the basement and pretend that they were owned by him. He donated land to loving union Baptist Church where seven generations of jellies are now buried, so that his family would have a burial place. Because this church needed to own the land, he set the foundation. And we built grew and expanded that over time. Now, if you truly want to be a wealth builder, you have to recognize that nobody in America is starting from scratch. Everybody has a 400 year legacy that they are a part of. But also you've got a family legacy that you need to explore and learn. Because the model of wealth that you are continuing is often unconscious if you don't know where you came from. And so that's why it's so important that black history, black meaning not a race, not a color, but a position. When a business is in the black, it is profitable. I want your black history to be profitable history, because there is profitable elements of your legacy that I wish you knew, so that your confidence about wealth your way was higher.

Jamila Souffrant 29:09

Yeah. And wealth building, it's a marathon. It's it takes generations. And often what I hear from people is that you know, but like I want it today. So in the financial independence space, so I kind of talked to people who also want to retire early, quote, unquote, which really means for me at least, that they just aren't doing jobs they love without worrying about money. They have enough invested in saved. And sometimes I'll come across conversations in communities where they're just like, their concern is just to make as much money as they need today. They're not really worried about other people, or other generations. And it's not everyone's saying that but often wonder like that balance between building wealth today, but then understanding that you may not encompass and reap the soil that you're toiling now, but the future generations may. And for some people, that's Patience. And that's like, wait, but why should I do all this work? If I'm not going to be the one reaping it? What do you say to that?

Dr. Pamela Jolly 30:05

Yeah, I don't want you to think that that's what I'm saying. My thing is, well as a fulfilled life, I'm not asking you to slave and work hard. So that one day we shall overcome, I want you to overcome all of that

Jamila Souffrant 30:16

right

Dr. Pamela Jolly 30:17

now. And I want you to enjoy what you're doing. Because here's the thing, you know, oftentimes, the reason why I don't call it generational wealth, I call it legacy wealth is because in my research, so many people said, Oh, I'm not going to get an inheritance. That's not me. But that's when you limit wealth to money. Okay, so So my grandmother would say, if you know what to do, you will always have a job. But if you know how to do it, you will soon own keys to the kingdom. Sometimes your inheritance is more valuable with somebody telling you what not to do, than writing you a check for the people that you're talking about the independence people, their generation three in my model, guess what, generation three people are very apathetic, they are about themselves. And they need to be because they become the model for others about what it means when you move from the herd mentality, about lifestyle, to independence, and declare it, it's important to declare your independence. But for me, the best way to do it is to cost it out to understand your business model. And to make sure that you can sustain what you want beyond your retirement, you want to retire early. Awesome. Sounds like you want to create a closed loop economic circle sounds like you want to start pulling capital together, acquiring things together with people that you want to live the rest of your life with. That's a very independent thing from where we are right now. That's a wonderful thing to do. But guess what, that will become a model, I promise you that other people will follow. So even if you aren't even thinking about future generations, you can't control the fact that they're gonna look at what you do, and want to mirror it. That's the blessing in being independent.

Jamila Souffrant 31:55

Yeah, and you just had like an aha moment, as you're talking about legacy. And oftentimes, like, that's wealth, I forgot where I heard it. But when people have great influence, pass away, um, like a Kobe Bryant, or people that had a lot of impact on this world, like, Sure, it was the things they did, but it's also like this mentality, like sometimes now, when you think about someone like a Kobe Bryant, you thinking about this Mamba mentality that he had, like this focus that he had. And sometimes, that's all you can do. So there's some people right now who are like digging up like they, they didn't inherit anything, they are coming to this for the first time. And now they have an opportunity to change the way things are done and how people think in their family, they're gonna be the first one. And so that wants them to take greater stock in what that is worth. Because that is worth everything I would say, out of everything my mom has done for me, as a single mom, what she has instilled in me was mostly like the mentality and the drive that I have. And that's what allowed me to create the physical wealth that I have today, even though she didn't have it. So I just want to echo that, again,

Dr. Pamela Jolly 32:56

she does have because you are a continuation of her legacy. I love the older generation, because there's just so much wisdom there. And I just got called by a group of Bennett bells. And so as everyone knows, Bennett College was the first female African American college it started co Ed, but then it went all female. And Bennett bells are very powerful, influential women all over the country. And this group of Bennett bells are 70 plus. And they're like, look, we got plenty of money, we want to sit and talk to you about our legacy. There's some things that we do not want to die with us. And we want to know how we set that up in a model to make sure that's beautiful, because that's what we need. What I love is each generation, as my grandmother would say, gets weaker and wiser. Yeah, you can see some things that other folks can't see. But you can do what they did, so that you could see it. And so literally understanding the connection between the generations is so important. And there's ways different ways to do it. It is within your family. But the first thing I ask people who work for large companies, what generation is your company? Is it a second generation companies a third generation? Is it a fourth generation? Are you working for a company that's over 100 years old? Because that's a model of success that you need to not just learn from and work for, but start to figure out ways you can incorporate some of the best practices into your family. Because we are one big narrative. That's what people don't understand.

Jamila Souffrant 34:25

Can you give an example of that so like this is say you are working for 100 year company when you say learning from them and applying the systems or talking about systems or the way they operate?

Dr. Pamela Jolly 34:36

I'll start with my personal I was blessed after Hampton University to work at nation's bank nation's bank was run by human call. Hugh McCall was a fourth generation banker. I remember when I first heard him speak and he said he wanted to own the biggest bank in America. He currently own nation's bank when I left nation's bank, he was in the process of acquiring the Bank of America. And so literally, he acquired over seven by a financial institutions to create what is now Bank of America, and so learning under him, and he was a Marine, and he would give a crystal great grenade. And so I learned growth through acquisition from human call. So then my the president Harvey, who was still president of Hampton University at my graduation, he said, buy a piece of dirt before you buy the fancy car. So I heard that, and my daddy heard that my daddy bought me the fancy car, and I bought the piece of dirt. And so I continue to buy pieces of dirt. Well, guess what, that's growth through acquisition. Because when I graduated from the Wharton School, I bought a house in Brooklyn, I sold it eight years later, for five times what I bought it for, I had a balance sheet, I had equity. I'm a different type of entrepreneur, because I have that. Why? Because I bought a piece of dirt I grew through acquisition of a piece of Brooklyn for a period of time to be able to further my legacy in my business. And so these are ways in which I am mirroring the legacy of Hugh McCall. And I don't have a bank of America, but I promise you torch Enterprises has a bank. And so therefore, when you think about how you can apply what you're learning in your enterprise, you're in the enterprises that you work for, you're not just going for the what, which is the job, you are learning how to apply the how, which is the keys to the kingdom, business is 85%, the same 20% of a percent the same 20% different. The 20% is how you look at it. Is it just a job? Is it just a gig? Or is it a means for you to learn how to elevate the standard of your business.

Jamila Souffrant 36:41

And networking and learning from your net worth is super important. So it sounds to you had some wonderful mentors and people who you were able to learn from? I'm assuming some of them were people who you you knew them they knew you intimately, like they knew your name, right. But there might be some people that you might not know, personally, you can still learn from so can we talk about that this transfer of information from person to person? And how talking to people? How learning from people is very key in wealth building?

Dr. Pamela Jolly 37:13

Yeah, it is so very important, because my grandmother would always say it's hard to see the full picture when you're posing for it. And one of the things that I will suggest is what I did, so I was really grateful I when I first started my business, I started reading just about every millionaires autobiography that I could find. And I started seeing patterns. And then I started creating models based on the patterns because they became my data. And I'm a Wharton grad. And so I remember one of my mentors said, Pamela, you should go to the Milton. Michael Milken conference. Now I was a Milken fellow. And I got to meet him while I was there. I had read dangerous dreamers, which is one of my favorite books. And if you love finance, and you haven't read that book, please read dangerous dreamers. But it talks about the history of finance and how we are where we are today. So I went to Michael Milken conference. And guess who was there, just about every billionaire, I had read the autobiography. And so we're in a conference, I get to walk up to them, I get to ask them questions, I get to talk to them about what I want to do in my community relative to what I know, because I've read that they have done for theirs. And so understanding that you've got access to people, you don't have to keep them on a pedestal, do your homework, do your research, understand how they became who they became, understand what type of knowledge that they have, that you would like to apply to what you have, and then save up your money and go to a conference where they're speaking and have the confidence to walk up to them. And ask them a question worth asking. Because they light up, they might even give you their business card. They might even do what some of them have done for me become mentors that are still in some ways influencing how I look at things to this day, you have inherited a wonderful opportunity. I want you to seize it.

Jamila Souffrant 39:04

Yeah, and it's even better nowadays. Because we have so many mediums in which we can consume information, and the access the social media platforms. And then people that you admire are on the podcast, audio books, the way you can learn in different ways where our parents parents didn't have this kind of opportunity and access to information.

Dr. Pamela Jolly 39:21

Most definitely, but here's the deal, I need you to stay focused, because we start a lot of things, but I want you to finish some. Okay, so it's important that you pass the torch while it's still lit, but you got to keep it shiny. I hear a lot of people will then I'm gonna do this and then I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna, and I'm like helped me connect the dots maybe helped me connect the dots. Let me see how this builds grows and expands. Because you have more access to more things than any other generation has ever had. The millennial generation is the most educated generation in that we've ever had. But my question is, knowledge does not lead to power. How are you going to apply all that knowledge so that you can create powerful systems that can elevate the standard of business in our world. That's the challenge. When you got everything, what are you going to do with it?

Jamila Souffrant 40:07

Yes, applying information. Because there are so many people who get like, it's like, I'll listen to all your podcasts. I read all these books, it's like, but I still haven't done this one thing, like information overload.

Dr. Pamela Jolly 40:20

That's what Stanley Tucker said to me early in my business, he said doing makes your difference. Right. So in seminary, it was to converting theory to practice. But you've got to put it in motion, because it never stays as perfect as your mind can conceive it, it gets nasty, it gets gritty, it gets whatever, but it gets whatever it needs to do to be able to birth it into the thing that is for you. And so that's why you know, oh, well, you know, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that I have so many people last year, I did a test, because I'm launching a product in the back half of this year. And I interviewed 170 people. And I talked to them for 15 minutes. And I went in whatever they had to ask me, I answered. And so many people were like, well, you know, I want to do this, but I don't have this. I don't have this. So how do I get this? And what should I do this? How do I hire people? If I don't have money? And how do I do this? Now? I was like, you know, what, what's the one thing that you can afford to do right now. Because if you do something that wins, some people don't need a chair, to be able to help you get to the next level. And so do something, don't sit here and tell me what you can't do do something. Literally, that's what I want to encourage everyone do something, save $1 You might not be able to save 10,000. But save $1 Because the dollar is worth more today than will ever be tomorrow, do something.

Jamila Souffrant 41:41

Yeah, and the saying you can't like win the lottery, if you don't buy a ticket, like you can't reap the benefit without taking some sort of action. And of course, there's some risk of the unknown. But waiting for the perfect scenario, or waiting for or comparing yourself against someone else's abilities to do things like you'll never going to get there. And from my experience from anyone that I've also interviewed, it's like they take imperfect action. They just they do it even if they don't see necessarily, you know, I was equated to like working out, like if you go to the gym, and like you're trying to get fit, like the first couple times you go, you don't physically in the mirror see a difference. But this change is happening. And even if it's just your confidence, that allows you to keep going back, and then eventually like it happens, and so many people stop before they see a change. Like it's like us too little. There's nothing happening. It's not enough.

Dr. Pamela Jolly 42:30

Totally. I just read this book called atomic habits.

Jamila Souffrant 42:34

Yeah.

Dr. Pamela Jolly 42:35

I love that book. Because

Jamila Souffrant 42:36

he was on the podcast. He was great.

Dr. Pamela Jolly 42:38

Oh, that's wonderful. So I need to go into it. But yeah,

Jamila Souffrant 42:41

for anyone who has that, listen to that episode. was James clear atomic habits, a great book.

Dr. Pamela Jolly 42:46

Yes. And I just it just put things in perspective that I think everyone really needs to understand that 1% incremental difference makes a difference.

Jamila Souffrant 42:54

Yeah. So can you just talk a little bit about this narrow road framework that you use, and how it helps people?

Dr. Pamela Jolly 43:01

Sure. So my last job in corporate America was a market research strategist. So I learned how to create these algorithms, and segment things. And so I applied that knowledge to wealth creation, and generational perspectives. And so at the beginning of the narrow road is a typing tool with one question I type you, and you create this 12 identity. And based on that identity, you go through five steps. And the five steps are vision, thought, action, speech and outcome, but we clarify really what wealth is for you, and then help you to build confidence about how to pursue what your true vision is for wealth, and then develop the capacity and the business of you so that you can then be committed and connected to the systems and processes that you need. This work here is really good because I am blessed to be able to work with financial planners across the country. I'm a wealth strategist. I'm not a financial planner. But the reason why I do what I do for the personal financial part is because I heard so many financial planners want to work with communities that want to build wealth. But were frustrated that they couldn't build successful businesses, because oftentimes these people weren't consistent. They would talk about it, they would learn about it, but they wouldn't be about it. And so what I started to find was that it was less about the financial products that they were afraid to buy, it was more about how they felt about themselves, their lack of definition of wealth, and their inability to look long term at wealth and fulfilled life. And so I'm that bridge between where you're stuck in this financial literacy and financial wilderness, and where you want to be at the top of the mountain looking over passing the torch to next generations. At the end of the narrow road. Your requirement is to build a relationship, a lifelong relationship with a financial advisor that you trust and understand. I help you get more confident about the business of you so that you can be about the business of wealth creation, for the duration of your life and generations to come.

Jamila Souffrant 44:58

Yeah, I love that and because you can search online, mostly anything nowadays for free, like how to budget how you know what to index fun, what's this, right? And so it's not necessarily an information, problem or gap for people. It's not that like there's free information out there. It's not that most people that's like this test where they say like, can you give people things for free, even like a course or something, whatever, like most people that get it free won't actually use it, because it's not about the information that's lacking, that's preventing them from reaching their goals. It's this. It's a mindset thing. It's a habits thing. It's the inner work. And so so many of you want to start with the outer stuff, because you know, you can measure that. But that inner work is really what allows you to get that out or work and goals accomplish.

Dr. Pamela Jolly 45:38

You said that because in the beginning, you know, I'm a former banker. So it was hard for me to realize that I had to reset my own priorities. If I truly wanted to have the business I wanted to have because I am, my mind first goes to, you know, the debt to equity ratio, your external metrics, and what you own. But this was the roadblock. And if I truly want to get here, I've got to be able to address what comes before that. And so that's what this was so important. But because of how I was raised, I never wanted to be redundant, I didn't want to go outside the scope of what I was called to do. And so I had to really narrow my own road of this is what I do. And this is why I do it. And what I'm grateful about is your gifts will make room for you when you figure out what your gifts are and what room you need to be in. And so I'm grateful to be able to work with Raymond James, I'm grateful to be able to work with New York Life, I'm grateful to be able to work with financial companies and banks across the country who recognize the value of me because I recognize the value of them. And so the ability to be able to connect those dots is so essential, because as we look at 2044 2050, for whatever statistic you want to follow, when we become a minority majority nation, you got to have a definition of wealth for yourself in a row to pursue it. Because it's not just about you, it never has been. It's about us. And for people of my generation who were raised in an America that has elevated the standard continually while we lived here. We want that to continue. So we as a people have to be able to elevate our standards, so it can.

Jamila Souffrant 47:10

Yeah, I love that. Dr. Pamela, Jolly, thank you so much for coming on. I would love for you to tell everyone where they can find out more about you and what you have going on.

Dr. Pamela Jolly 47:21

Sure, you can go to Pamela jolly.com. And sign up to join the journey. And I'll let you know about some things that are coming. I work with five different targets men, women, business owners, pastors and young professionals. I have a black male equity initiative, I studied over 3900 African American men, and I've helped them just find wealth for themselves and pull capital together to be able to do some really fantastic things. I did the same thing with women. I did the same thing with communities. I do this in partnership with the campaign for black male achievement and the Omaha Empowerment Network for communities. I also work in Louisville, and this wonderful Artpop project. And so all of this I can share with you when you go to Pamela gianni.com and sign up. And I'll let you know about the wonderful things that were legacy wealth is becoming real and communities across this country. I'm Graham and Twitter and Facebook.

Outro 48:18

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