From Undocumented Immigrant To National Reporter: How To Own Your Power + Get What You Want w/ Daniela Pierre-Bravo

Episode Number: 306

Episode 306- From Undocumented Immigrant To National Reporter: How To Own Your Power + Get What You Want w/ Daniela Pierre

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From Undocumented Immigrant To National Reporter: How To Own Your Power + Get What You Want w/ Daniela Pierre-Bravo

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Daniela Pierre-Bravo, author, speaker and nationally-recognized reporter, joins the Journey to Launch podcast to discuss her path from undocumented immigrant to career success.

After hustling her way through college by paying cash and working 3+ jobs, Daniela found herself using that same mindset to work her way up through 30 Rockefeller Plaza. Now, well-established in her career, she is giving us advice as a WOC through her new book, “The Other: How to Own Your Power at Work as a Woman of Color.” 

We chat about taking the emotion out of advocating for ourselves in the workplace, finding a mentor to speak for you in rooms you can’t go into (yet), being strategic and having a vision for your career moves and more.

In this episode, you’ll learn more about:

  • How hustling got Daniela through college and multiple unpaid internships as an undocumented immigrant in New York City + how DACA changed her life
  • The dichotomy between doing whatever it takes to get things done to move forward and being held back by doing whatever it takes to get things done
  • Stepping into your power, taking up space and asking for more as a woman of color in your career and life
  • Seeing yourself as your own LLC, negotiating as an exchange of goods, owning your narrative + more
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  • What stage of the financial journey are you on? Are you working on financial stability or work flexibility? Find out with this free assessment and get a curated list of the 10 next best episodes for you to listen to depending on your stage. Check it out here!

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Daniela Pierre-Bravo 0:02

In times where I really got myself down, or I felt like I lost it all because there were moments in my life where I did lose it all and I was like, How the hell am I going to get out of this? And instead of that, I would say, okay, Daniella, this is what we're gonna do. Alright, Daniela don't give up. So it was almost like I had my own team cheering me on, but it was like this introspective team that I was counting on.

Intro 0:28

T-minus 10 seconds. Welcome to the journey to launch podcast with your host jameelah. So frogs as a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave juniors like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real Whoa. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in five, four, three, two, one.

If you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to journey to launch comm or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. In the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned and so much more. Also, whether you are an OG journey or are brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes so listen to stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources and so much more. You can go to journey to to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Jamila Souffrant 1:38

Hey journeyers welcome back to another episode of the journey to launch podcast. This week's special guests is Daniela Pia Bravo She is the author of the new book The other how to own your power at work as a woman of color. She's also a public speaker, MSNBC reporter for The Morning Joe, a contributor and producer for MBCs Know your value. She's also been featured on today's show Telemundo, Forbes cosmopolitan, you name it. And I'm excited to have Daniella on the show. So welcome, Daniela.

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 2:09

Thank you so much Jamila for having me.

Jamila Souffrant 2:12

Now, Daniella, your story is pretty amazing. As I was like looking through your background, and also through the book, the new book that we're going to talk about, and I want to just like acclimate people to who you are, and why the advice that you're giving in this book, and in general, about showing up and being ourselves in the world, and especially in our workplace is so important. So can you just give us a little background of how you got here, which I know is a loaded question. But I'd love for you to share that.

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 2:41

of course. So I am originally from Santiago, Chile. And I grew up in a small town in Ohio, in Lima. And really, from a young age, I really didn't have mentors or other Latinas and places of power where I could learn from even more so than that I grew up undocumented. So a lot of the things that you wouldn't think about were closed off to me. So even though I tried really hard at school, and I got good grades, and I was really involved, things like college were really like a heavy mountain decline, because I couldn't apply to any colleges, because I didn't fit the citizenship box. And I couldn't get any government loans or federal scholarships. We grew up with no money at all. So financial aid was something that I really would have benefited from but but didn't have available to me. And so I grew up a lot with shame, because I was the only person that I knew of that was undocumented. And I had heard a lot of comments from people in my town about, you know, disparaging immigrants and I didn't fully understand I didn't have the discernment back then to know that those things weren't. Okay. So instead, like anybody who feels like they don't belong, and don't have people that have the same background or look like them, you immediately internalize it, and you tell yourself that you're the problem. So it took a long time to get through that. But I was still you know, like a lot of other women that I've talked to that I've had the opportunity to speak with, for the book, if you're the first and if you're the only you gotta have confidence, whether that confidence is real or not, you got to fake it till you make it and that's really what got me through college. I paid cash through college, I took semesters off here and there I had like three side jobs. And then you know, it was time to get a real internship. At the time I can only do unpaid because of my status and I'm still undocumented. So I ended up applying everywhere in New York City because I thought okay, I need to be somewhere diverse where I could make my own narrative and start over. And it was a summer before I graduated. And I ended up applying to everywhere in New York for unpaid internships. And I lied on my resume. And I said that I lived in New York. And instead of where I actually was in Ohio, because I had my fair share of experience of people doubting me and making excuses for me, so I didn't want the hiring manager to say, Oh, she's not from here, she, you know, she's not going to be able to move here in two weeks for an unpaid internship. We don't know, we're parents, our extended family is like we, you know, and I knew that this was going to be like a long, like an uphill battle. So I remember applying to one of Diddy's agencies. So did he Sean Combs Puff Daddy, however, however, you know, has this had this marketing agency, which basically promoted all of his brands, Sean, John, the record companies rock, and I was like, Okay, well, nobody really knows about this. It's like, kind of in the corners of the internet, I'm gonna apply. And so they call me back for an interview. And they're like, Oh, we see that you're local. Can you come in for an interview tomorrow? So I get on a bus that night. I'm like, not 18 hours from New York. Nine sketchy stops along the way, I get to Port Authority, I clean up, I change, I wash up and I run into the internship interview. And I And they looked at me like, I was crazy when I confess that I actually came from a bus in New York. And they're like, you know, this internship is unpaid, right? And I said, Yes, you know, I'm just excited to be here. And I just want to show you how hungry I am for this opportunity. So I ended up getting that internship. And I was back on that bus to two weeks after and I started, there was only part time, but I, you know, I, I worked at MTV Networks and their ad sales department and another an unpaid internship. And I just busted my butt off trying to make money to survive in New York, I was walking dogs during my lunch break, I was babysitting, I was working at bars and promoting and just doing anything that I could that could pay cash, to, you know, allow me to survive in New York. Long story short, that summer is when DACA came out. And it really changed my life, because it gave me an opportunity to have not just a work permit, but an identity and a sense of belonging that this country did, in fact, give us a space to belong. And it really changed my life for a lot of different reasons. But I didn't know it was coming, I had no idea. And so it was really just using my mom's motto about bonacasa alavez, which means one thing at a time, and figuring it out as I went. And from there, I applied to the NBC page program, I rotated through different shows like Saturday Night Live. And then I did morning, Joe, which is where I am, I still am, I haven't left. Nine years later, I work myself up from a production coordinator, to booking producer to now on air reporter and working on just released my second book.

Jamila Souffrant 8:02

Incredible, it's incredible. I mean, I saw you say this in another interview that like this drive, and hunger, especially as an immigrant gets unmatched. I'm a daughter of an immigrant. I came here when I was two years old. So I was actually born in Jamaica. And so that drive that you're talking about, I know it very well, I've seen my mom and my grandmother and other people in my family. And also, I know undocumented people today, you know, in this country. So it's familiar. But one of the things that you talk about you said was that like that same drive, and energy that pushes us and like you're doing the like what other people think are impossible to do that is also the same thing that kind of keeps us in this cycle of being potentially taken advantage of overlooked, because you'll go to any means to get things done. And I feel like that's kind of what also keeps some of us back. So can you talk about that dynamic and how we can use it to our good but also then change it around for the better to?

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 9:00

Yeah, well, it comes down to the same roles I got us in the door are not the same roles that are going to kick take it to the next level. And I actually don't think my story is unique at all. I've said this many times, I think you know people like like you, Jamila and so many others. We're hustlers. We know hard work, we have been very well aware of the sacrifices that our families have made to get us in a position to have an opportunity to do the things that we wanted to follow our doings and so to be the one and only and to get to where we are we have to have competence. I don't think we lack competence. But I do think that we operate in a way where we don't know where we're giving away power. And I think it goes back to this sense of finding rules of inclusion, right because in one way or another we have felt what it's like to be the other. We have felt What it's like to see ourselves through the eyes of somebody else, instead of our own. And in one way, it's given us power to read the room, it's given us power to understand the nuances of what people want from us. And we have learned, you know, in no uncertain terms that we need to follow the rules, we need to put our head down, we need to do the work, we need to make sure that we're taking care of everybody's needs, we need to make sure that we're the model minority, and that we're forever grateful. Because we have found that our opportunities are fleeting. We have seen our aunts and our mothers be discriminated in the in the workplace, we have seen the injustices of our community, and we are so afraid to ask for more, and to deviate from those rules of inclusion that we have created for ourselves for psychological safety, that we're afraid to take up more space. And so it really helps us at the beginning of our career, right? Where the Yes, girls were the ones that stay the extra hours, were the ones that don't, you know, contradict anybody that might not be the one that pushes further ideas. We don't want to cause dissonance, because as others, we have felt the repercussions of causing dissonance, right? bias, prejudice, not being on an equal playing field. And so what we need to understand is that as we get farther along in our careers, to take up more space to be in a position of leadership, whether you're working for yourself, or you're in your mid career, or you are a leader in the highest ranks at a corporation, we have to play by different rules. And it's going to cause some dissonance to other people, when you deviate from their idea of who you should be. But it's necessary.

Jamila Souffrant 11:55

Yeah, that assimilation part, right of fitting in and reading the room, like, the social intelligence that you pick up, right? Because the way you navigate and it's almost like, Okay, I'm gonna use this to my advantage. I'm the only one here and that same thing that potentially will separate me and have me as the other is my superpower. And I know you talk about that a lot.

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 12:17

Absolutely. I mean, I think that I kind of knew that all along. But I was afraid to step into that power. Because, you know, I would be an editorial rooms where I was the youngest, I was the only woman. And I was the only immigrant. And I knew that there was a certain lived experience that I had, that could bring a lot of knowledge and understanding to the table, especially when stories like because I worked on a morning show, especially when stories on like immigration, or DACA came out, you know, I knew those stories about my community that I knew better than anybody else there. But I, I still had a record with my identity. And the truth is, the truth is that I still felt shame. And that shame, was blocking me from those moments of raising my hand and advocating for a certain guest to come on to explain a certain story that had to do with my community. And that's why when I say in the book, you know, it's really important for us to bring our full selves to work our lived experiences, our sense of identity, and to lean into that otherness, it's because it really is a superpower. Right? So if you work for any corporation in the US, right, because if you look at the demographic of the US, we are only getting more diverse, the minority has eventually become going to become a large part of the majority. And Latinos are, for example, one of the fastest growing electorates, but you know, portion of elector voters in this country. And so, again, if you work for any client base, or any sort of product or service that services, Americans, we need your voice at the table. Because by and large, America looks like you.

Jamila Souffrant 14:05

This applies anywhere, what you're talking about what we're talking about, and your career experiences are in media, right? But people can be in like corporate America, where they're dealing with finances, they can be in different types of industries. But I think a big part of this, what we talk about here at journey to launch is about the ability to have options, and creating those options through your finances, right, but your finances are connected to everything. So you have to earn money doing something. And most people they're doing that by working for someone else, working with others. And so in order to maximize your potential, your earning potential and then even just your enjoyment in the workforce, right, bringing yourself to work, enjoying what you do feeling like you're contributing, you have to be able to be in these rooms speak up and navigate and like kind of move through them in a way that still makes you feel good. So for someone who is in the situation where they don't have the control, you know, they're one of many in a room, maybe the only person, what are the things that they can start doing so they can start reclaiming power or standing up so that they can start making the moves to put themselves in a better position?

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 15:13

Yeah, well, there's, there's a lot there. And I learned this from my mentor Mika Brzezinski, who talks about getting paid your worth at work, because oftentimes, there is that sense of burnout. And there is that sense of, Well, it's not a sense of to reality, things like quiet quitting, because people are sick of not being paid their worth. And when we think about the workplace, and asking and advocating for more money, or more responsibility, or more flexibility, whatever it is, that be that makes you balanced at what you do, and productive and happy at your job, we have to be able to do it from a place of understanding, really, what we bring to the table is an exchange of goods. And we don't have to put a lot of emotion or make it personal, or put all of these things on the table, when the fact of the matter is we are providing a service, a skill, or what have you, you know, as an exchange of services. And once we see it that way, and we see ourselves as our own kind of LLC, we take better care of ourselves, because we know that what we're bringing to the table is actually important to the the bottom line of the company. And it makes a better argument, right? Because I have this struggle early on in my career where, for my parents, or my grandparents and my mom, I learned that being grateful is something that we need to have a top of mind at every moment of every day, like Being grateful is the best virtue that you could ever have. And that's absolutely true. I am so grateful for the opportunities that I have. And I continue to be so the issue is that when we've seen generationally that we have struggled with wealth, or we have struggled to accumulate wealth generationally, where we have seen struggles, again, we go back to that scarcity mindset of those opportunities are fleeting, and that any moment if I ask for too much, it's going to look like I'm ungrateful, and they're going to take the opportunities away. That's not how business works. That's how it works in our head. But it's not how business works. Men do it way better, right? They don't have that that mentality of, they're going to take it away from you white men are more entitled, they ask for what they think they're worth. And then they add, like 20%. And sometimes they get it or they get it, you know, they get something a little bit below, but at least they try at least they have that sense of entitlement. And we need to be more like that. And we need to be able to not be afraid that we're in somehow betraying our virtues of being grateful and that we're going to be fired. Because we're asked for more, I can't tell you how many women I talked to that I coached that feel like they if they asked for more, that they're going to be fired. And you know, don't get me wrong, there's a certain way to do it, right, you don't want to threaten to leave if you actually can't leave, right. So the tone of the conversation has to be a little bit different when you get to the negotiating table. But it's time for us to really make it about what it's about, which is an exchange of goods. And that's why I say you know, owning your narrative really brings power in that sense. Because when we don't understand our full selves, when we don't understand our full duality, and the importance of being Latina, but also American, we start fragmenting ourselves. And when we start fragmenting parts of our identity, we feel like we're not enough. And when we feel like we're not enough, we feel that way when we're in the negotiating table. And it becomes all about this like, heavy argument of whether I'm worth it or not what it has nothing to do with that it has to do with what's at stake, which is the exchange of goods for your services. So the book, the other goes through all of that, because, as you can tell I'm getting long winded because it's a very long answer to your question.

Jamila Souffrant 19:16

No, but it's all good. I mean, it's all relevant.

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Jamila Souffrant 20:09

What were some of the things you did to help you navigate?

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 20:15

Yeah, I mean, there were there were a lot of different things that built up on one another. One of the things that I did know that I have control over at the beginning of my career, and it's always good to have at least one part of the equation that you can control. And for me early on, was to know that I was going to outwork anybody around me for the first part of my career. And I knew that that I would do really good at that. But again, that can only take you so far. So I really leaned into that at the beginning of my career, and I got rewarded. And I would find creative ways to do that. I remember, like I started as an NBC page. And then one of my assignment was morning, Joe. And then after a month and a half, they saw they saw how hard I worked and brought me on for a full time role for their production coordinator job. And one of the ways that I really set myself apart as silly as this sounds, was to get Mika's coffee, the CO hosts of the show, like perfect every morning, and I would like strategize on how to do that. I would say okay, Starbucks opens at 4:45am, Miko walks in the door to 30 Rock at 4:45am. How am I gonna get the coffee so I every morning, I would time it out, I would knock I would bang on the door, the Starbucks people hate me there, I'm banned. At 4:42am, I would knock on the door and I would order that Black Diamond usto extra hot extra foam. And I'd run into waiting for her at the car, you know, and just, it was like a dance. It was a silly little dance. But, you know, it really helped me out like, I mean, this is a woman who works so hard in her career and that coffee was like her lifeline. I wrote a book with her in 2019. And we talk all about that. But then from there, you know what that did was really build trust between me and her. And to this day, she is such a strong advocate and a mentor for me. Because at the end of the day for women like us who don't have a lot of people at the table that look like us or have our backgrounds at the advocating table, like she was the one that advocated for me in rooms that I did not have access to yet. So that helped. And then the other thing that really helped was being strategic about how to build my career, I think a lot of us can get stuck in the ebb and flow of just being reactive to the opportunities that come towards us, instead of having a plan to proactively show people, how we can be in a different light or show us in a different light to other people. So one of the ways that I started doing that was just trying to contribute in different ways outside of my job description. So even though, for example, my job was a booking producer at a time, you know, at one time, I knew that I had access to managers and agents, agents and publicists. So I would take advantage of that. And I would reach out and I would go to Eva Longoria and American for eras camp and say, Hey, I know you guys are doing something with the Latina vote, can I interview them? And I would tell my boss, I have the interviews, I'll produce it, I booked it. I'll give it to you on a platter. All you have to do is put it on there. And it was little experiences like that where I would strategize, get the work done and serve it up on a platter so that they could start seeing me in a different light. Or when I was in like Las Vegas. I was there trying to get candidates to talk to us after the debates to get to come on the show the next morning. And during the day when everybody would go take a nap or go you know have lunch or just have some downtime. I would go and talk to Latino voters in Nevada because it's a really important state for Latinos and Latino vote and I would do kind of like the man on the street and I would ask my boss Hey, I've identified these people I produced it I'll you know I'll give it to you on a platter. Can you put it on the show the next morning? And he said yeah, so and so again it were these like experiences of constantly showing people what I could do, and doing the majority of the work at the beginning because people will be more likely to say yes to you if they can see a full concept concept fleshed out. But sometimes you got to do that on your own at the beginning to show them your value. And that that really is what allowed me to pivot to this on air roll that I have now. And guess what all the stories that I that I was doing, to serve on a platter were all stories connected to my community, are all stories that I knew that were part of my culture. And it was about embracing that duality, that really gave me an advantage to be able to pinpoint the stories that I should be doing.

Jamila Souffrant 25:45

I love that, you know, you had this vision for yourself, the belief that you had in yourself that you could do this, because I'm sure you had other interns or people that you work with, who maybe you know, their ambitions were not to do that. Like, they just wanted to do the work and go home. But then, like, I've come across, where I've had peers, where, like, I'd have these ideas about where I wanted to be or what I wanted to accomplish, and they're just like, how do you think you're gonna do that? Like, from your position, like, you know, they were the doubters of that. So how did you have that belief in yourself and then follow through with it? Like, what gave you the confidence?

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 26:21

Yeah, and you know what, like, some of those naysayers sometimes are in your own family. And they don't mean that in a malicious way. But it's just the reality. I remember when I jumped on that on that bus to get this unpaid internship in in New York, when I didn't know anybody had never gone to New York. My mom was like an internship gay, like, there. She was, like, what are you doing, and just nobody got me. And even when, like, I had, like a job in NBC and I was a booking producer, I was afraid that people wouldn't take me seriously as a news person, because I was doing all of these other things on the side to try to build my credibility as a reporter. And I felt like, those moments of doubt did come up. But I talked about something in the book that's called chatter. And I didn't coin it, there's a book, Ethan, I forget his last name. But he's, he's quoted in the book. And I actually sent him the chapter that I quoted them on. And he gave me some really nice words of how you know how well it blended into into the story of the other. But we have to really be careful of the chatter that we give ourselves in our head. And I always did this intuitively. But there's science behind this, that, and this is just kind of like a short little tip, because I love talking about tips that are tangible. Talking to yourself in third person is really useful when you don't have that cheerleader in your life where you have that person that's like showing you the lay of the land or that mentorship. That's really useful. So in times where I really got myself down, or I felt like I lost it all, because there were moments in my life where I did lose it all. And I was like, How the hell am I going to get out of this? And instead of that, I would say, okay, Daniella, this is what we're gonna do. Alright, Daniel, I don't give up. So it was almost like I had my own team cheering me on, but it was like this introspective team that I was counting on. And it's hard because as the others and people who have grown up as the one and only is and you're the first or third table, or the first person that they look like that they're doing what they're doing. It's hard. And you need that voice until you do build that community of allies, because that is really important. I mean, as you get farther along in your career, you do need the those group of CO conspirators and allies, but in the meantime, talk to yourself in third person, it really does work.

Jamila Souffrant 28:57

That is such good advice. Because so many of us actually have negative self talk. And we don't even notice it. Like sometimes I'll catch myself doing it. I'm like, What do you know, like, no, like, and then I will switch it around?

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 29:10

Well, it's protective. Yeah, it's protective.

Jamila Souffrant 29:13

Yeah, I noticed it more because I have children. And I will just this saying always stuck with me that however you talk to your children or admonish them, or whatever, it becomes how their inner voice. So I catch myself, sometimes I feel like I'm being too critical and like, Okay, I don't want them to, like I want them to talk nicer to themselves. So I need to like change how I do. And so then because I'm mothering so much, I've like decided, or I'm being more conscious about how to mother myself in a way, like my internal voice, so like what you're saying. So it's like, alright, would you want to talk to your kids that way? No. So talk to yourself nicely. So if I'm doing something like especially if I'm running, because I'm a reluctant runner, like I'll say to myself, like, you're out here like, I'm like encouraging myself the way I'd want my parent or coach to talk to me. So I think that's solid advice.

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 29:58

I love that and Um, as I get further along in my career, like, there's one thing about being encouraging to yourself, but I think I've gotten to the other extreme, where it's like, I'm so hard on myself, like, I'm on my own coach, you know, and I can be really critical sometimes. And sometimes I really don't talk to myself very kindly. And what I've realized lately is that, whenever I feel like I'm talking to myself too critically, or it's turned to a negative space, I do this little trick where I talk to myself as my younger self, and envision my younger self. And that has really been a game changer on letting myself fail and be okay with it, or, you know, making mistakes and being okay with it, or just the times where I feel defeated, or I feel alone, I talked to my younger self. And that's really helpful. Just to be more kind to yourself.

Jamila Souffrant 31:04

Yeah, it goes a long way. I mean, think about like, everything we do, like all the physical things, we want to manifest the money we want to make the career moves you want to make, like that starts from in inwards, right? Like, I know, some people can fake it till they make it like they could probably be horrible to themselves and to other people, and still make it pretty far. But I do think eventually, like, it does catch up to you, like, it may get you in the door and may get you in certain positions. But it's hard to upkeep that. And so, it's really like this ability to create nothing out of something, right, which is like, you know, sometimes you have you have the example and sometimes you don't, you have to create it in your mind and, and lean into the crazy, you know, like we talking about talking to yourself, like, it's not that crazy. Like, there's, like you said, there's science behind it, like multiple books written about it. And sometimes you have to embrace that part of yourself, no matter how silly it makes you feel even talking out loud, right? Like, I do a lot of that inside. And sometimes it comes out and people used to always say like, Yo, are you talking to yourself? Again? I'm like, I guess so like, but it's okay. Like,

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 32:09

yeah, absolutely. There's so much power and creativity. I think that a lot of the times in my career, and in my life where there were so many barriers, and so many knows where I had to kind of like, go around the barrier, instead of like slam into it. It was about being creative, and like saying, Okay, well, how else could this work? Okay, here's a no, but, you know, what did this No, teach me that gets me closer to the Yes? And what are some of the creative opportunities that I can put out for myself, even if they don't make sense to others, that I can kind of play around with or kind of throw spaghetti to the wall and see what sticks. So I think that that is important is to have a little bit of ease with yourself to be able to make space for creativity around your goals and how to get there.

Jamila Souffrant 33:03

Yeah, as you started to navigate yourself, in your career and and move upwards, right, like, I think it's also good to talk about like the money side of things. And I know it depends on the industry and position. But for you did you did you find that as you advocated for yourself and made those moves that you saw, like a translation and how much you were making? Did you have to like, advocate for yourself more, even though you were in higher positions, because sometimes people see you, or you in a certain position and say, oh, like they must be making a lot of money or that like, I don't need to say anything, because it should be obvious that I should make this amount. But how did that work for you in terms of earning more, and advocating for more money as you went on in your career?

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 33:48

Yeah, it's never obvious. You always have to tell people what you're doing because they don't know. And even if you think they do, they don't. And for me, it was really about having continuous conversations. And I remember when I first pivoted from my production coordinator job to my editorial job, which was a great promotion. But I had been doing all this overtime as a production coordinator and doing things outside of my job description. That when it came time to get to the next step, it which was a really good step, but it was an editor. I mean, we I was going from menial work to actually building building the show, like editorial. And so I had those moments where I was like, Oh, this is a really good opportunity. I don't want to ask for more because, you know, I'll be seen as ungrateful and it was mica, who, who really pushed me to ask for my work because I was like at the beginning of my career, and so I was still you know, I needed help with like, what was going on up here. And so, you know, when they offered to pay less, I was just like, I can't do it, you know, because, for me I know the research where it shows that young women start out earning less than their male counterparts. And they never really do catch up. And I didn't want to be part of that statistic. Latinas have always lagged behind the farthest on equal pay. And this year, we're at an all time low. We have actually backtracked from where we were last year. Last year, we were at the still at the end of the Equal Pay spectrum, we were earning 53 cents to a white man, non Hispanics dollar. That is the statistic that you will read in the book, because that part I wrote last year, but now that part of the book is outdated, we now as of this year, earn 49 cents, to a white non Hispanic man's dollar, which is almost half, it is half less than half than what a white man makes. And it takes us almost a year to catch up our Equal Pay Day is not until December. And so the statistics are real. And I know through, you know, the practice of writing these books, especially, you know, this is my second book, my first solo book, I know the real consequences of it. And I also know my real value. And I know that I can bring a lot to the table, and I'm just at a place where I really, literally can't afford to, you know, take less than what I'm worth. And I think that's the big part of it. And then the other part is the tactical, you know, how do you ask for more. And that's why, if you see the book, the first part of the book is really introspective, we go really through a deep fleshing out of our identities and our sense of self, to really understand how to connect that with the pieces of advice on, you know, the things that you need to do when you get to the negotiating table, like how to push back, right, so the second half of the book is really practical. But you have to make that make sense with who you are, to really make it stick.

Jamila Souffrant 37:03

And you have to feel worthy, right and enough, you talk about that and book like you are worthy,

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 37:09

right. And if you don't believe it, no one else is like, you have to convince yourself of that first before you can convince of anybody else.

Jamila Souffrant 37:18

You so you have your full time job, or something that I know probably takes up a lot of your time. And then you're writing books, and I'm sure you're doing a lot of other things too, in terms of managing that write managing your time, your expectations at work for what you your main job, but then all your creative projects on the side. How do you manage that? I'd love some insight, because there are so many people where maybe, you know, it's great, because it seems like what you're doing on the side, or it's just as important, but it feeds into what you do full time. And then a lot of people who are working on full time things and maybe their interests are actually other subjects. Maybe they're 10 gentle, but like they're like, Alright, how do I fit this all in? And do more than one thing? What is your advice on that? Yeah,

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 38:06

yeah, I don't manage it very well. That's the truth. I mean, I do a lot of things at once. And it's chaotic, and it's busy. And sometimes my Saturday mornings are taken and my Sundays. And you know, and that's what I've kind of bought into, I don't want to, like sell a fake, you know, assumption here, because it is a really hard work. And you're right, I, I have a daytime job, I finished this book, this is my second book, I finished while I was working a full time job. I'm doing a press tour for my book, I'm building my mentorship platform accessible. And you know, I love collaborating with other people. And that takes my time and energy as well. But I think I have just decided that this point in my life is about growing. It's about exploring I, I want to take advantage of this platform. And you're right, a lot of the stuff that I'm doing outside of my job as a reporter is 10 Genial to 10, gentle 10 Genial, sometimes my, the correct English escapes me. And so that that really helps, right? Sometimes I bring things to the table to know your value or work where I say, Hey, I'm working on this, and I thought they might be a good connection to the show. Do you want me to do XY and Z with this person? So sometimes, there's a lot of synergy. And I think creating synergy for other people through the work that you're doing is a way to make relationships a two way street. And I think that we shouldn't underestimate that. Because I've found a lot of times where the things that I'm working on the side can be really good collaborations with, for example, know your value, and the more value that I bring them through the things that I'm doing, makes our relationship stronger. And that's the truth of it. And so I think, for me, I I spend a lot of Time in coffee shops I've, I've found the places that really energize me. Working from home does not really work for me. And it's fine. It's about finding a space to get myself in the right mindset. It's about finding how to download afterwards and recharge, right? So for me, it's movement, it's yoga, it's hanging out with Benji, it's having brunches with my girlfriends, right? It's lighting a candle after work and watching trash TV. Like, we have to also know how to recharge, because that's also part of how we manage our work. Because we need that energy. So again, it's all of these little things that I'm kind of figuring out as I go. But that's truth of it. It's chaotic and messy, but I like it for now. Not forever, but for now.

Jamila Souffrant 40:51

And Benji is your rescue dog, right?

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 40:52

Yes, my rescue doc. He He's, he's like the cutest little boy. He's looking at me right now. He's always so aware of what I'm doing. So yeah, he's a cutie.

Jamila Souffrant 41:00

You know, this may be helpful for someone because I know I came up against this when I was working. And then I had this, my creative thing was the podcast and the blog journey to launch right. But I kept them separate. They were separate things. And I just did there may be a conflict of interest at some point. So was it easier for you to bring your ideas and the side projects to your main job? Because, you know, they were so parallel? Or were you afraid, maybe like, what they think this is competition, or that I would be working on this while I was at the job. Because I know for some people, that's it, too, was like, they'd love to be able to be open with their colleagues and maybe not about what they're doing. Or they might think like, well, if I do that, I might, they might want me to stop or have to get sign off in order to do things. And that's going to slow me down.

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 41:43

Yeah, that's a really good question. I think everybody has their own way of answering that. I think for me, especially when I found a flow, when I first wrote the book with mica it back in 2017 2018, where it was like, I would work on the book after work. And I would work on the book on weekends. And that was, and I made it enjoyable, right, I would like have a ritual where I would again, go to a coffee shop and have my notes and work on my computer. But it was absolutely after, you know, after work hours, because even if I mean, my my job is so mentally, like I have to be there like for reporting to it's like 110%, or else I can't do my job, I just literally cannot do my job if I'm not giving it my full attention. So I have to do book stuff after or, you know, on the weekends. And, you know, I have to have sign off for everything that I do, because I work for a news organization. And there's a lot of protocols and standards on that, which I've kind of gotten used to and I found kind of a flow. But then a lot of the things that I'm doing on the side, I mean, it's just women empowerment, focusing on minority women. And that is also the ethos and the mission of know your value. So that is something that is very synergetic. And that me and B and we got have worked on closely. And so it's I think it's a win for both when we bring more of these stories to the table, because what I've realized is that what I do is not about me at all. And it's about amplifying our community and the more platforms they have and the resources they have, then it's better for everybody. And that's that's how I've decided to look at it.

Jamila Souffrant 43:31

Well, Daniela, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I hope everyone goes out and get your book the other, please tell everyone where they can find it. And then more about you and your amazing work.

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 43:44

Yeah, so thank you, zonula so much for having me on. I really appreciate it. The book is found in most bookstores. So if you have an indie shop or a local shop that you like to go to, you can get the other there. It's available in Barnes and Nobles, Amazon anywhere really that books are sold. And yeah, I love hearing from readers. So I'm at at de Pierre Bravo on Instagram and at access a community, which is my mentorship platform.

Jamila Souffrant 44:16

I will link all of those in the episode show notes. So thank you so much again, Daniela.

Daniela Pierre-Bravo 44:21

To me like thank you so much.

Outro 44:26

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