Episode 266- Launching Financial Grownups & Teaching Your Children About The Importance Of Money With Bobbi Rebell

Bobbi Rebell 0:02

It is essential that your young adult children understand enough about money. Because if the tables turn, they may need to take care of you one day. So I don't care what your situation is you must teach your children and now I'm seeing it with a sense of urgency, I'm almost gonna cry, because it's the thing many parents dread the most. But anytime you're tempted to raid your retirement account, and a very high percentage of people will do that to help their children. You think? Is it better to help them short term or to teach them to help themselves somehow get them to muddle through somehow, so that I don't have to ask them for help down the road, because that's going to be even harder.

Intro 0:41

T minus 10 seconds. Welcome to the journey to launch podcast with your host Jamila souffrant. As a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave juniors like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real Whoa. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in 4321.

Jamila Souffrant 1:11

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If you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to journey to launch comm or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. In the show notes. You'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned and so much more. Also, whether you are in OG journey or are brand new to the podcast, I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes so listen to stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources and so much more. You can go to journey to launch that comm slash jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Hey journeyers I have a repeat podcast guest friend and journeyer on the podcast I have Bobby rebel Bobby was on episode 45 of the podcast so you can always after you listen to this one go back and check out her first appearance but I like I said Uh, no Bobby in real life, and she's as amazing as she's going to be on this show. Because while we met years ago, I feel like I love your approach to money. I love the different point of view that you've had and you'll hear that journeyers as you listen to Bobby speak, but let me just tell you a little bit more about Bobby. So Bobby rebel is a CFP and the author of launching financial grownups live your richest life by helping your almost adult kids become everyday Money Smart, a financial literacy advocate and the host of the money tips for financial grownups podcast. She's the founder of grownup gear.com Which by the way, if you're watching this YouTube video, I'm wearing one of her shirts, that's generosity. And I wear this shirt a lot. And she was previously a global business news anchor and personal finance columnist at Reuters and held various journalists positions at top news outlets including CNBC, CNN, and PBS. So Bobby, welcome back to the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell 4:18

Thank you so much for having me and I love that you're wearing grownup gear. The sweatshirts are so cozy I live in them. I'm not wearing one right now but they've been such my go to in the pandemic during my sort of hibernation while I was writing this book.

Jamila Souffrant 4:33

Yes, so yes, I super cozy and I just love actually love just the term on it. Like it just makes me want to be more generous when I wear it. So it's pretty cool. Alright, so Bobby, I would love just like a quick back story of how you pivoted your career. I know we talked about this in your first interview, but I think it sets it sets us up well to then talk about kind of what you're doing now and your new book, but how you move from being like a reporter And like a true journalist is like, I like to call it to what you're doing now, which is still important work. But it's kind of like different, right from like, where you were before. So to talk about that,

Bobbi Rebell 5:09

oh, nine day, but not necessarily for the reasons that you're thinking about. I mean, I think, first of all, let me just be clear, being a journalist is not something that you necessarily have to have a degree. And I do not have a fancy Master's in journalism. And I will tell you, I was always intimidated. Because Reuters, where I spent a good part of my career is filled with people with very fancy and by the way, very expensive, master's degrees in journalism. And I just have an undergrad, a liberal arts undergrad. So I learned on the job. So if anyone wants to be a journalist, do not be intimidated. There's no such thing as quote, a real journalist, it's writing about stories about people about news events, whatever your your genre is, the career pivot came because look, I had a family and I had always really wanted a family, it's, it's fair to say I worked really hard for the family. But I had a heartbreaking early divorce. Like a starter marriage, I didn't have kids. And when I got remarried, five years later at age, well, I was 35, when I met my husband, so 36, I basically became an Insta Mom, we had a three, we had a child together right away. And then we soon got full custody of my husband's two kids from his previous marriage. So suddenly, I had three kids. And that was great, except I never saw them. And I did the math. And I took three years to do it. And it's very important, I didn't just quit my job, I took three years to come up with a plan where I can exit from the full time corporate reporting job into what became my own business, I thought of the brand financial grown up and what it would accomplish and what it would mean, how it would execute. I thought of doing a documentary, then we came up with doing a book instead. So very much planned. But I really wanted to exit from that because I wanted to be both physically and mentally present. As the kids grew up, I found that even if I could get myself home earlier, I was so burned out. And I was, you know, by the end, I was sort of running sayings in the business video group for the US. And so I had to be on calls to London, I was prepping for meetings and on calls to London before taking my kid to drop off, you know, the drill. It was just not something, you know, is it sustainable? Sure. Anything sustainable? Is it the way I wanted to live my life? No. So I always take pride in the fact that my goal was no matter what every year, since I left there, I've always made more money than I did in my corporate job and kept significantly more because I mean, now my youngest is 14. But you know, for a while I was saving money on having childcare help. So I also was saving a huge amount of money because childcare is and remains a huge problem in this country. It is just something I cannot process why it is not getting the attention that it needs. Because the math does not work for working parents. So I made the pivot. And now my second book,

Jamila Souffrant 7:56

but what you talk about is what I faced and I know a lot of women and men, you know, who are struggling trying to balance the career and family life is that it usually comes to a choice is do I work? And hopefully you're making enough to support your family? And or is it that you could give more time to them. And I feel like you know, entrepreneurship and going out on your own, which is what we both did, is you know, a viable course to that. But of course, that's not easy either. Because you have to come up with viable, sustainable income streams. One of the ways you did that was you took what you learned in your corporate career or your job like on air and you transfer that to I know you do a lot of freelance work and writing. So I just think that's a super inspiring because you can if you're listening to this, and you have a skill set, or something that you're good at in your current job that can be used towards pivoting in another career becoming a consultant. The options are endless.

Bobbi Rebell 8:50

Yeah. And I think something I really want to emphasize, I actually don't do a lot of freelance writing. I'll tell you why it didn't pay enough. Yeah. Right now journalism on a freelance level does not pay enough for the amount of time and effort that it takes including pitching the stories, billing and all the other things that people don't always think about and take into account. What has paid more what's really paid off that I would urge people to do is I upgraded my skills. After I wrote the book, my first book in 2016, it was called How to be a financial grown up. And it's interviews with basically business heavy hitters about their sort of aha moments when they realize that, you know, money was gonna matter in their life. And it was just great, great stories from incredible people. But after that, I realized I needed to differentiator because there's, you know, people, to some degree are a dime a dozen former journalists. And so I worked really hard and became a certified financial planner. And with that credibility, I have been able to work with brands and be a spokesperson for them and have a lot more success. With that with brands. For example, I had I worked for years with JPMorgan Chase. I work with tally now, which is an incredible debt payoff app. So because I have that unique skill set that not everyone has, that has allowed me to make more money and have more options in terms of revenue streams, and that's really important.

Jamila Souffrant 10:14

Yes, it is. And so I know we're going to get into this but I want to talk about just like the concept of financial grown up. So your first book was more about how you are become a financial grownup and talked about people and their revelations. And now this new book is more about launching financial grownups, which is important to me as a mom of three small kids. And you also, you know, obviously have kids, but I think I have a lot of juniors who listen, and they are on the path, right? Like they realize that money is important. They're trying to make changes pay off debt invest, but they also have little ones now, or maybe teenagers, or maybe adult kids. And they're like, Well, I want to make sure they're good, too. Because as I rise, and my rocket takes off, I want them to be self sufficient. So let's talk about what it takes to launch a financial grown up. And I know that's a loaded question.

Bobbi Rebell 11:01

It's not a loaded question is the most awesome question. Jamila, it is an awesome question. Because the truth is, it's never too early to start. This book is going to focus on ages 16 to 26. Because I felt first of all, you can't tackle everything in one book. And I do feel there are a lot of books out there for parents of younger kids. For example, Ron Lieber wrote a great book called The opposite of spoiled, there's other books out there, but I didn't see anything. For me at the time, the kids were in the older ones were in college. And then my younger one was, I guess, about 1112, when I came up with a concept, and it came about because as I mentioned, I had, I'm a CFP, I have 20 years of business news, journalism experience, and yet, I was failing so miserably with my own kids. I mean, you could know something on paper. But there's a whole psychology. I mean, this is a parenting book as much, if not more so than a money book, because you can tell a kid to open up a 401k. But number one, they might just say, Okay, I will and not, yes, they might do it and not set it up correctly, where it's automatic, they might not know or choose to say, I'm going to add 1%, your journeyers know to do this, at 1%, every, you know, six months, every interval, so it notches up and you don't really notice it. And they most of all, may not know and this happened with my daughter to actually put it in an investment mutual fund that is intentionally chosen. When she got her first job. And I was so proud of her, she has the most amazing job. She makes six figures, I'm gonna say it, because it's probably public. If you know, she works at a consulting firm, you know, the level that she's that she's doing so amazing. She got this killer job she worked her butt off for it shouldn't make that much sense to start. But when she first got it, I made sure she put the money in the 401k Even though she was gonna save for her own apartment, even though she was doing high deductible health savings plan the whole thing. So she had a lot coming out of her paycheck already. And she was so proud. She said, I did it. I'm all set. And I said, Okay, let me see. And of course, as I, you know, basically foreshadowed, it was not actually invested. And I said, Okay, let's put it somewhere. And she's like, I will later I'm going out with my friends. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, I know, later means I'm going to nag. And it's gonna become a thing for six months. Right? Right. And time goes by and the money's not invested. And I made her sit down. And I showed her and it was a list of let's say, you know, Company ABC, and they had all these different funds. So you know, they have the diversified stock fund, they have the Fixed Income Fund, they have the whatever money market fund, and I said, Well, you're 22, and you're not going to get to the money until you're probably 72. So you have 50 years. So let's take the equity fund right for now. And we can always change it, but let's at least for now, put it in the equity fund. And so I said, you press the button, because that's a big thing, that when you actually just sit there and you make them press the button, it's like teaching your kid to drive, they can't sit in the passenger seat at a certain point, they have to sit behind the wheel. I said you press it, and she kind of presses it and starts running off to go meet her friends. And you know where this is going, you know, she picked the Fixed Income Fund, right? So she wasn't paying attention to really know what she said, because it was all they all said ABC fund. You know, it was like they were all whatever, let's say it was fidelity or Schwab, she didn't know the difference she just knew yet. You told me to pick the fidelity fund. So I picked up but I'm like, but there's 10 Fidelity funds, you know, and it wasn't fidelity, but she didn't understand that within that. Now, once I explained to her she did understand, but the point being you have to literally make sure because these are things that if you don't get back in there with a password and you may not it's a 50 year thing. So you know, coddle them like be the helicopter parent for that stuff.

Jamila Souffrant 14:42

So I'm glad that you actually clarified so you we said I said CFE when I introduced you you said CFP, but I do want to say that means certified financial planner, just for anyone who's like new to the acronym. And when you say that's for 16 to 26 year olds, I actually really like that you say that because I think what happen As often as if you are one, someone who's just coming to financial awareness, and an awakening, you may not have even had time or thought to teach your younger kids this. And so how do you start with the older kids? And I find and you know, my kids are very young. But what I assume is that it's harder to have more control or influence in a way over your older kids, like you say, because they have their own lives. They have their own motivations, like it's different in terms of how you can get them to do things. So I want to talk more about just like how do you motivate a 16 year old if they haven't been taught anything about money? Or you haven't really been having these conversations that they should care about saving? Or investing or like a 22 year old? Because I know at 22? I didn't really care about this. I was like, I'm young. I'll figure it out later.

Bobbi Rebell 15:43

Well, I mean, look, the short answer is you figure out what they do care about because you do care about some thing. And not only is it never too late, if you're just starting at 16, that's actually a great time. And the reason I picked 16 to 26, is because 16 is a time when, as a general rule, this is the first time and there's exceptions, and I frankly, was working earlier than 16, I had a job at like 1415 a bakery. But you know, six years of age, when you know you're getting a license to drive a car, maybe or you're having your first job where you get a W two paycheck, where taxes are taken out. So it's an opportunity to start having discussions about their money, not your money, because when you're talking to a younger kid, you're basically controlling your money, or maybe it's a gift money, that kind of thing, but they're gonna do what you say, because their kid and they're gonna do what you say. And you can control them. So they're not really they're learning, you're teaching them, but they're not making the decisions themselves, necessarily. They're kind of following what they're being told, when they're older, and they have agency, you have to let them make the decisions and let them fail. And if they don't care at 22, well see, there will always be something that they do care about. But it's okay to let them mess up within bounce back to the 401k. Don't let them mess up the 401k push them on that. If they're gonna blow it, and they insist on buying, you know, a stock because it's talked about on Reddit. Okay, let them blow it, you know, let them do that. But talk to them about it. Say Why did you choose this? Okay, was that the right source of information? Sometimes, you know, it's like, you know, gambling, you're gonna be right sometimes, and sometimes you're gonna be wrong, they might make money on that stock. Who are you to say, they might make money on an NFT? They might make money in crypto, who are we to say, what we do want to do is give them the information about risk tolerance and what's involved and how to make the decisions so they can make the decisions themselves and within guardrails that we should put up, let them have the outcome, right? Because how else do you really learn, you know, you go back to the driver, you don't want them to ever have an accident. But the truth is, I'm not good at parking. So I had to learn, you know, knock over the cones when you're learning to park, and then hopefully you won't hit another car. Right? So let them make some mistakes. But keep the guardrails up and keep the communication open and do the debrief and see how they feel. And don't judge them. Support them. Ask them how they felt when they lost the money. Or maybe they made the money. How did that feel when you made the money? Did you feel like you made it because you were smart? Did you feel like you made it because you were lucky? Yeah. What are you going to do next?

Jamila Souffrant 18:18

Yeah, I think what you do and especially the agency thing, like when they have a sense of control over their own life, and they can make decisions, and also the knowingness that they have a supportive parent. I was listening to a podcast and no founder was saying that he his venture was going to fail like he was he was out of California. His parents looked back in the east and he just called his dad and was like, you know dad, like is can you prepare my room because I think I need to come back home. And his dad didn't write him or you know, get upset. He was just like, Okay, and again, I know that's a luxury like, you know, there's a lot of things we're not saying here and that sentence or in that story because there's some parents who may not have the stability to still support their adult kids and have them move back home. But I do think a lot of us or some of us do have that or can provide that. If anything, maybe it's not our money we can get them for a down payment for a home and or pay for their wedding. But it's just like you know what, there's always a place on my couch. Maybe I don't have like a house that has an extra room. But you can always land back home if you fail. I would think and I know for me it helps. And I want my kids to have that it's that I want you to try. I also want you to know that if you fail, you'll always have a place to land.

Bobbi Rebell 19:31

I love that I want to Well first of all I want to say part of the reason that my stepdaughter was able to buy an apartment which I talked about at such a young age was because she did live rent free in our home. And we did not pay for her vacations we did not pay for her clothing and so when she was allowed to read my closet from my old anchorwoman days, but she was on her own for anything discretionary but we did let her effectively crash on our couch in her childhood bedroom. But I want to flip what you were saying around because you talk about this is so important. You talk about it. Parents don't have the means to help their kid in their young adult life financially and have that support. That is an even more urgent situation that you must teach your child about money because this is really hard. But there may come a time. And we're all vulnerable. We learned this in the pandemic, no one is immune to money trouble. I don't care what the number is your bank account, things happen. Things happen, businesses crash that you never could have foreseen, crashing, right, never. So it is essential that your young adult children understand enough about money. Because if the tables turn, they may need to take care of you one day. So I don't care what your situation is, you must teach your children and now I'm saying it with a sense of urgency, I'm almost gonna cry, because it's the thing many parents dread the most. But anytime you're tempted to raid your retirement account, and a very high percentage of people will do that to help their children. You think? Is it better to help them short term, or to teach them to help themselves somehow get them to muddle through somehow, so that I don't have to ask them for help down the road? Because that's going to be even harder. Yeah. And if you do you want your kids to know enough to be there for you.

Jamila Souffrant 21:11

Right? We talk about the foundations or the what we want to teach our kids I mean, there's so many like, facets of it. And that's the thing about being a parent, there's so many things you want to like instill in them, like you know about work and being a good person. But like the the practical things like saving investing, but I wanted a little bit about career because we were talking about this before we press record about how things are different now. Like even I'm an older millennial, I'm still a millennial, but I'm an older one, right? So even like, when I look at what high school kids have now and what they have access to, like, I didn't have a cell phone in high school, you know, I had to wait till I got home like my friend and I, it's funny, like, we had to be like, Alright, we're gonna we're gonna meet somewhere, we just had to meet at that time, like we had pagers, but we it's not like we can keep up to date in real time it was going on. And so nowadays, like, it's totally different for these like high school kids. And so like career wise careers are different podcasting, like that, was it like a, you know, a thing that people thought they could do, like 20 years ago in terms of making money, and now it is. And so who knows, like when our kids said they want to be, you know, my said, my kid says, oh, I want to be a gamer. And I'm just like, okay, or YouTuber, you know, like, what does that mean? That's different. So talk about why you have to support your kids, through the career choices they may be going towards.

Bobbi Rebell 22:28

Those are such excellent points. And I do talk about my now 14 year old who has made the case that he wants to be a YouTuber, and he will tell you, the revenue streams of each of the top YouTubers. And so I say, Okay, we'll see how it plays out. You're only 14. It's important to, you know, talk through why they want certain careers and to let them change their mind. Don't stereotype them and say, because you wanted to do this, when you were this age, you still want to do it. They changed their mind, both because they're interested, just new things might interest them. Or, as happened with our oldest, she just decided that she wanted a lifestyle. She did not want to feel tight on money. And she wanted a career where there was, in theory, unlimited upside. So when she entered college, she was in the teaching school. She was going to be probably an elementary school teacher. She was always a camp counselor. She taught swimming on the side. I mean, she made a lot of money as a teenager doing private swimming lessons and that kind of thing. So she was always entrepreneurial in that sense. But she realized that there were kind of limits if she went to the teaching school, and so she transferred to the informatics school, and now she's an I'm oversimplifying it, but she's, I'm gonna say she's a cybersecurity consultant. It's not exactly that, but she works for a consulting firm, she does really well. She owns her own apartment. She saved the downpayment, since she was age 13, like birthday gifts, the graduation gifts, money from all these swimming lessons that she taught in the camp and all this side, she had so many little side jobs, always, always working, save that money, and she bought a New York City apartment at age 23. No, she's 24. I'm sorry, 24 by the time it closed, she's now 25. And let me tell you, she pays I have no fear that she will not pay that mortgage payment. I have no fear, she will not pay her maintenance. Every month it gets paid. We did not pay the down payment. And I remember being really nervous when we were getting close to closing like, what if she's a little short on closing, I would say to my husband, what are we going to do because it's like against my principles to step in over the check. But like, what are you gonna do? But she had it, she did it. She did the math. She had this spreadsheet Jamila. I just, it was like, more than 100 items of every item you need to set up an apartment. People never think about this, but you need so many little tiny items when you first set up a home from scratch. And she priced them all out at like different retailers to compare. I couldn't believe this because she was on a really tight budget. And I was in awe of her. That's very detailed. Oh, she's teaching me she's way off like She's just like leaps and bounds ahead of me at this point.

Jamila Souffrant 25:02

But what I want to go back because I love how you said she picked her career based on the lifestyle she wanted, I think that's really important to like, let your kids know, because I don't want to be like one of those people that like, yes, I want my kids to be happy and love what they do. I think that's important. But I found to be honest about what led me to be able to do what I been able to do financially. And even though I started my entrepreneurial journey, or was successful at it later on in, like my, in my mid 30s, is that I also chose my career based on how much money I thought I could make. So sometimes people go for like a passion like, or what their heart leads them to. So maybe teacher dancer, some of these professions that don't always start out or have a lot of money involved. But like when they're doing it, it's like, they feel God talking to them, you know, it's like, that's their passion, but then it's not a lot of money. And then you have people like me and your daughter, who maybe said, Alright, I'm actually there's a certain amount of money I want to make. So I'll go for that and figure out the passion later. And so I think it's important to talk to your kids about what that looks like and to be realistic. Because I know a lot of people who are going more for the passion route. And it's different if you like, have passion and you don't have high demands for like things and like a luxury lifestyle, then it's like, alright, you know, you kind of deal with it, right? versus going for the passion and you want nice things and things that cost money, then that becomes an issue.

Bobbi Rebell 26:16

But how do you define a luxury lifestyle? Let me tell you, three kids orthodonture, one of them twice. And it was just a staggering sum of money. I mean, we even I think I talked about this in my first but we had a payment plan. I mean, it was I wasn't gonna put it on credit cards, and I didn't have the sum of money. And I knew the orthodontia was gonna be over three years. So the point being like, it's not about luxury, necessarily. It's about do I want kids with straight teeth, like it could be like, do I it's life is really expensive, especially if you have dependents. I don't want to say kids, some people don't want kids, but you have dependents dependents might be your parents one day, by the way, dependents could be a dog. I mean, Ashley really wanted a dog. And it's not until later this year, she's now signed up to get a new puppy. But she had to wait because she didn't have the money. Because she was buying the apartment. She was doing other things. And she you know, she could have gotten a dog and not an apartment or rented something cheaper or whatever. But she she had her list of priorities. So you're saying luxury. Let me tell you this kid has never bought she's shopping. I mean, I don't even know like, she shops in my closet. She's not someone that's buying designer duds and luxury. And she, her friends want to go somewhere fancy she will on occasion and kind of talk them off doing the full thing. But she's very financially aware and careful, because she's gonna make that mortgage payment every month and her friends know it. So it's not just about luxury. It's about choices like you want it because the dog is not just the money to buy the dog, then you have to are you gonna buy pet insurance, you have another mouth to feed? No joking, right? You have to get pet care. You want to like let's say right now she works from home. But that might not be true. She might travel, she's gonna have to pay someone to watch that dog. She had to think through all of that veterinary costs. I mean, we had a lot of discussions, she has pre shopped the vet that she's going to have for her dog. So it's not only about the perception of luxury, I think we get lost because grown up life is very expensive. And it's important that your kids understand that. They may want to buy things for their kids, and so on. So, but I also want to say something. My career was a journalism career. I don't know if you know, Brad Clontz you know, Dr. Brad Clontz. He's fun on tick tock. Yeah, I do. I Yeah, he did it. So Dr. Brad Clontz. He's actually in the book, too. So he did. He's so funny, please follow him on tick tock. He did this thing about, like, you know, the undergrad careers that are the most expensive and pay the worst. And journalism was right up there with like, you know, physical therapist or whatever. So I went to Korea didn't pay well, what my father did. And he tried to talk me out of it, he still wants me to go to work on Wall Street. But he tried to talk me out of it. But when he couldn't what he did was he modified. So he said, Okay, maybe instead of being a local news reporter, and working in these small towns and trying to work your way up to get to a major city, and he knew I really wanted to get married and have a family too, which is something that I think it's important for us to acknowledge that that's not something that we should necessarily deprioritize for our careers. We have to they're both important. And if you wake up and you haven't thought about a family, and you're in a certain age, you know, biology is what it is. It's just something if it's important to you to keep in mind, and he says you're going to travel the country trying to work your way up from these. I mean, we're talking about I mean, I guess it's the 90s. So I don't know if the numbers would make sense, but you know, very low paying jobs. Most of the people that I interviewed with, like the weatherman at one place took me out he was also like a home renovator. Like they all had second jobs, and they had to do supermarket openings and all this stuff. He said, Why don't you go do an internship in financial news and business news, and maybe you'll like that, and in his mind, I would then be interested in working on Wall Street but what happened was, I really liked the intellectual challenge. I got a job at CNN BUSINESS news over the summer doing overnight shift. I worked for some Who became very famous later on a Maria Bartiromo on overnights. And she was a producer behind the scenes. And I really enjoyed it. I like the the sort of thinking aspect of business news, and it paid significantly more, it paid a really good amount and you can earn a living doing business journalism, and that's the thing people should remember, you know, if you're going to be, let's say, if you want to go into healthcare, and you don't want to be a doctor, well, I don't know the specifics, but I know there's different levels of nursing. So you know, if you want to be a nurse, figure out, where's the nursing, that's gonna be the best life career balance, but also that pays well, and can give you the the lifestyle that you want. So really think through if you're following your passion, what area of your passion, could pay the right amount, or pay more.

Jamila Souffrant 30:49

And this is why exposure is so important, because there could be a career path that bridges together multiple things that you enjoy, or like the tangental skill sets that you have, that are also going to pay you well, right. Like if you just look at it as in one lane, maybe that lane is like the typical one most people do. But there's so much out there. So it's so important to network, and to you know, as a parent also, like discover, like the different behind the scenes jobs that like what does it take for this YouTuber? Because there's so many, you know, like, like kids watch, like, the gamers, like just play games and thought, Oh, my son too. Yeah. Right. So it's just like, Okay, if they were really serious about this as they got older, okay, what does it take to bring that to life, like, I was listening to another podcast interview about the person, Discord, the person who started discord, which is like the communication system, the creative communication system, Discord, but before that, he created games, he had businesses around that, but like, he went from not only just loving to play video games, but understanding and learning how to make them, how to market them, how to work it, and how to create a communication tool for them. So there's all these different things that I think I feel I owe it to my kids to show them, like, the different sides of the coin, you know, like, it's not just like, two dimensional, like one side and the other, like, you know, there's all these little intricacies that we can like, dive into that, it's going to take more effort. But I think if you can expose them to different careers or different things, the earlier the better than that gives them a, you know, a wider canvas to work with.

Bobbi Rebell 32:20

I totally agree. You know, my little brother, my little brother, who's now in his 40s. I mean, he, you know, always loved entertainment. And he, my father kind of pushed him to be a lawyer. But he was a lawyer for Nickelodeon and for NBC. And now he works for a gaming company. So he's managed to have a job that pays well and gives him the lifestyle that he wants. But he's in this cool field, where he really looks forward to going to work every day. And he's really, I think that he's enjoyed his career. I'm just kind of speaking for him. But I think it's been really cool to be in that atmosphere for him. And yet he has a really solid job with skills that will always support him in some way.

Jamila Souffrant 32:58

Right? Now, you talk about mistakes. So you said you made mistakes in terms of like financially, like, we'll be talking with your kids, and what were some of those mistakes, you're talking about, actually, and how great she is like with money. And always wonder like is that also just a factor of that's how she always is in other areas of her life. Like she's super organized, and detail, not just with money, but with other things which transfer some money versus maybe some, some other people who are not, like naturally inclined to be as neat or detailed? And how do we encourage our kids if they don't have those skill sets, to develop them?

Bobbi Rebell 33:33

This is why I had to go to the experts. So yeah, she's motivated for the apartment. And she's motivated for the lifestyle, of course. But that doesn't mean it translates into, you know, the perfect child. And I, you know, I will, I hope never say anything bad about my children publicly, but nobody's perfect. Let's just say that. And, you know, look, we're talking to her younger brother who has graduated from college right now. And he went from being I think it was a finance or economics major at NYU to transfer into the film and TV school. So so fun to pay the tuition for one of if not the most expensive colleges in the country, and he wants to go make movies. And like a cool, great and and oh, by the way, we're having a pandemic, right as he was transferring into the Tisch School of the Arts. And he's doing it remotely. He's sitting in our apartment, like learning to make films. Yeah, there's no hands on. So we're working through that. I mean, I think that's been really challenging for us as parents, and I think it's important to let your kids and they said, let it play out. Let him know, look, I think he's very talented. He's working on his first film, his like, big senior project. And he came to us and this is a great example of how to help your kid but not too much. And it's still happening. So TBA TBD, but he had an idea for film. He has two other producers, students working with him and a crew of 10 and they decided that even though NYU gives them equipment, blah, blah, blah. They need to raise money. And he came to us and it was an amount of money that like, you know, yeah. Could we write a check? Yeah, it's a big check. It's not an easy check to write. But we could have, but we just like, listen to him. And I think he was kind of hoping that we would be like, Okay, we'll give it to you this time, because it's your senior project. Nope. Silence, we just said, What are you going to do how you're gonna raise the money. And we just let it hang. So there's now an Indiegogo project, if anyone wants to contribute, it's called meatball town, meatball town film, I think is where to go, I think on Instagram, but he's raising money 25 bucks at a time, we gave him a little bit more than that we did give a contribution. And we encouraged our friends and family to, you know, to donate, we let him we said, you know, you should, you know, email your grandparents ask them to donate. And his other producers have to do that. And they are raising the money for the film. Because the truth is, if you want to be in the film business, and you want to make your own movies, you know, you got to be really good at raising money. And you can talk all you can, you can have all you want. And you know, you talk about follow your passion, follow your dream, you want to do the directing, but like, someone has to pay for all the people there and someone has to pay for one of the big things he's learning about is like, a lot of money has to go to permits to film in certain towns. So even I don't know the movie business. But he's learning about the economics of the movie business. And we'll see, I think he'll stay I hope for his sake, because he enjoys it, he'll find a way to make a living in this business. But I would not be surprised if he maybe pursues his own films, at least initially on the side, but gets a job job somewhere in the industry. We've made it clear to him that we'll pay his you know, rent until he graduates. And once that lease is up, the couch is available at home. You know, that's it. He can he can live rent free, but we need an exit strategy. And there's there's no allowance, he's gonna be almost 23 years old. That's it, he gets the couch.

Jamila Souffrant 36:58

With love. That's a lot more than some kids have, right? And he's

Bobbi Rebell 37:02

graduating debt free, by the way we are paying out he knows that.

Jamila Souffrant 37:06

He knows that which is amazing. Like, that's a big Headstart,

Bobbi Rebell 37:10

yes, he has to come to us with the bursar bill and get the money. I make a mask. And the same thing with his rent. He knows what it that's another big thing is he has to understand what it costs to be Bradley living in New York City, and what his life is gonna cost if he doesn't want to live on our couch or even on our couch. It's still expensive.

Jamila Souffrant 37:31

This topic is so interesting, because, you know, we talk a lot, you know, about creating generational wealth, and even in for like black and brown communities, how important it is to create generational wealth. And what happens is, we talk about creating generational wealth, and sometimes when we get into position to help our kids, right, like so my mom, despite her not having much was able to help me with the first part of my downpayment for my first home, which is why I was able to like buy it, and then I lived at home for free for two years. While I say that money, a privilege, like that is a privilege, right? Yes. For some people, when I say that story, it's kind of like, you know, they may like say, Oh, well, then it's easy for you. Right. And I always go back to it was easier, I'm not going to deny that was easier than someone who had did not have the Headstart that I did. But what I think about is we talk about generational wealth and giving our kids a head start what my mom did for me, that's what we're working towards. That's what I want to do for my kids isn't that what we're working towards, is to give our kids Headstart, so cuz I feel like people get a little hate, I guess, when they don't disclose that they get help, or that they had a headstart or they try to deny their privilege. But I feel like two things, I feel like the generational help, that we are wealth that we want to pass them to our kids, we shouldn't feel ashamed if we had it. And we shouldn't feel ashamed if we can give that to our kids. That is what we're doing this all for is to be able to do that. And then the second thing is how do we instill that being a hard worker, quote unquote, or self starter, and that grit that I had, even though like, I didn't have a headstart, like my mom had to sacrifice so much, and seeing how, like, we not necessarily struggled so bad, but didn't have a lot going up. That's what I wanted to change about my life with our kids. Now, both of our kids, you know, like your kids and my kids, they have a different lifestyle. How do you get that right balance so that they are still hard workers? They respect the value of $1. You just said some of it, which I appreciate. But I think we should talk about

Bobbi Rebell 39:26

that a little bit. Bring them along for the ride. And I think you do that. You know, I used to bring a little hairy to I would do these updates at the NASDAQ market site. And I have pictures of him sitting under the camera watching me and understanding that mommy works, you know, show them the Book of the bookstore, that those are my tangential things that kids can understand. But it's really important to tell them about your work and tell them why you do that and just involve them. They see a lot more than you think I remember For my son, it was some kind of group playdate and there was mostly nannies. And there was one child that had a mom there. And he sort of made a comment, I had so much tremendous guilt that I was, I just felt like I was the only mom that was never there, which was not true. And he made some comment, like, I feel bad because, you know, someone says Mommy doesn't have a job, what does she do all day, you work so hard, and you earn money, and it makes you feel so good, and you can buy us things and, and I kind of realized he is absorbing a lot more than I realize. They see, they see a lot. And if you communicate that with them, they will it will resonate. And sometimes that means telling them a little bit more information than you feel comfortable telling them. One time I used to over program pre pandemic, my son, I just like let's say there were two weeks before summer camp started, I would literally sign him up for the you know, the school would have filler programs, where you know, for X dollars, they'll take your kid from, you know, 10 to three every day. And let's go to Central Park and learn about plants. Okay, well, one time he saw the check. And he was like, Mom, that is insane. Why are you paying that. And we had this whole discussion. And we decided we would do one week instead of two that year. And I did activities with him. And I kind of took some time off from work that I hadn't really it just didn't occur to me to not program him and write the check. I just was like a little robot. And they they see a lot more. And you should talk to them, I guess just over the edge of what you're comfortable with. Also, they might know more than you realize because of the information that's out there about our lives that used to not be out there. So they can look up to some degree not for us probably, but a lot of jobs, they can get a sense of it, they can certainly look up what your home costs, what your rent is. They know, they know a lot more than you think.

Jamila Souffrant 41:52

Right? But it's like bringing up those money conversation. It's like I want them to know like it costs money every time this light goes on. And for all those little things that you want, we have to pay for that. But then also not to have it be a burden. Because you know, it's also that like not like instilling in them like negative money cycles or beliefs. They're not saying that you can afford that. But saying, you know, I'm choosing not to spend my money on that. Sure, I could buy you something from the ice cream shop every day. But I'm not gonna do that, because that's ridiculous. And we can go gray ice from Costco and like save money, like that's kind of like this, wanting them to be money savvy, but not in a deficient way where they feel like it's not enough that they cannot earn money or money is a bad thing.

Bobbi Rebell 42:29

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the elephant in the room. And that's something that I have struggled with so much. And it's definitely harder. If you don't have the money and have to tell your child, we are not buying that because we don't have the money. That is harder. separately. It is hard sometimes when you definitely have the money and you're just like, we're not getting it because I don't want to because you have and whatever. And it's also been hard. And this goes back to the older kids thing. So you came, we're friends IRL, you came, my husband and I joined a country club, something I never thought I would afford. I never thought I just like it was so bizarre. But we there's a whole backstory why we do it. But we happen to join right before the pandemic. And it's been the best thing for our marriage because we play golf together and essentially tremendous value because we're there like every day. And it's you know, it's like our it's like a we call it our like seven month vacation. But that money could have easily gone to Ashley's downpayment and just like boop, bop to write about our house made life you know, tie it up with a bow, we got her all set up. And then we could do the same thing with Bradley and so on, you know that money could definitely go to subsidizing our kids. And we don't have an infinite amount of money. And my career is risky. You never I never I don't know how my books gonna sell. Right? We don't know, if the speaking world will open up. But I'll have that revenue stream back again, which I have not had for the last two years. So I had a lot of sort of introspection about is it selfish of us to join this Country Club? We're over 50. At this point, my bio is actually helpfully pointed out to she was trying to get us to upgrade this vacation we're taking that my husband can now qualify for senior citizen rates. Thank you very much like she's a little too money savvy these days. But, you know, we're kind of coming to peace with the fact that it's okay. At a certain point. If your kids are good, but we paid for their college, they are graduating debt free. They can live on our couch. We're allowed to have you know, as our mutual friend Ashley Feinstein grossly says a lifestyle upgrade. You know, she talked in your previous episode about the baby city. Sure you can do without it. No one needs to join a country club. But you know what? We work really hard. We're over 50 at this point. We want to play golf on the weekends. We're tired. We've been spending hours we spent, I mean, if you think about it from age 25 to 14, so that's like, how many years of like child well, I guess it's 25 it's very recently that we haven't had the weekend filled with bringing a child to activities. Yeah, we finally have weekends free like that was beyond money. We couldn't join a club because when would we go we were always driving and taking kids to activities and birthday parties and all that stuff. Like you can't go take four hours and play golf. We finally could do that just to you. years ago when he was like 12. And even now I'm like apologizing for it. I still feel conflicted. Is it the right thing to do? Because it's so indulgent. But yet, at a certain point, you have to allow yourself to live your own life and let your kids live their own life within their means.

Jamila Souffrant 45:17

Yes. Oh, so yeah, because some who said this, like, my money is not your money. I think it was like a wealthy celebrity. And they were like, yeah, it's my money. But it's not your money, like you are lucky to be able to, like grow up in this privilege. But make no mistake about it, what I choose to do with my money is going to be like what I choose to do. And it's interesting, because like, we're doing our basement remodel, and the amount of money that this is costing, like, we definitely could have did like, more economical things with it. Like, I mean, I do think there's an ROI on this, because it's going to it's going to make our home, expand our home, and like what we can do in the home, and I have my office in there now. But it does feel a little bit like, oh, well, we could have did something else, maybe even to help them further. And they're still pretty young. So I think this difference between like the age ranges of kids, like, especially when they're adult, it's kind of like, listen, I did my best if you truly did, and so you are on your own, for the most part, like you live in within your means, like you said, but I do think there's something to be said, for modeling, and putting ourselves first as a way to show our kids how to live full lives, especially as women and moms because oftentimes, like you know, it's like we think right? Being the martyr and running ourselves ragged. And what that means with us energy or money and giving it all the way is gonna, like show how good we are as a mom. And then I know if I do things like that, it puts me in a bad mood, and I'm not a better mom, because of it. Versus when I'm pouring into myself, and I'm being selfish with my selfish quote, unquote, my time, my money, like, you know what, I'm gonna go get that spa treatment, or, you know, I am going to spend all that money on my office, because I, I want to, I think that's important also to model for our kids as they grow, why it's important to put themselves eventually, then they put themselves first and in their adult relationships. Yeah, and

Bobbi Rebell 46:57

for them to respect the fact that you have your own life, which is really hard to see. Here's a good way to measure whether you are putting your kids too far first, and this is something we are guilty of, who has the nicest phones in the house, your kids are probably too young. But if you have kids that are old enough to have a phone, this is my husband, I were lamenting this, like we always have phones that are like several generations behind what the kids have. And that's just wrong. Like, why do we do that? His parents, right? Well, and if you care about it, we don't care about it as much. But like, still, like it's kind of symbolic to me, because my husband and I, we were just talking about it. And like our phones are so old, and the kids always have the latest greatest. What's up with that? Like, why?

Jamila Souffrant 47:41

Yeah, you know what, it's interesting, if you think of it, whether it's a phone or something else, like in the house that everyone has, and you're just like, why am I like the one with the like, the old sneak like old sneakers or something that's like Reddit, or tatted up Reddit or cannabis. And I always say, as an adult, as a grown up raising kids, my biggest priority is to make sure I'm self sufficient. So yes, I want to help you, I'm gonna cut you get you a headstart, also as much as I can. But I want you to be able to launch into the world and not think about having to take care of me. Yes, like, if that's all I do, even if I never gave you a dime, I want you to be able to Mom and Dad, if when they get older, they can afford what they've done, they'll be able to take care of themselves in old age, I don't have to reach back into my pocket and do it.

Bobbi Rebell 48:22

That is the biggest gift is giving your kids the confidence and the competence to know that they can take care of themselves and that you can take care of yourself as well. But always to know that you're all going to be there equally as a backstop for each other. We can take chances in our career in our life when we know someone's got our back. And I think that's a really nice thing to remind your kids that you're not going to pay their rent, but there's always a catch there for them. Right? You know what I mean? There's kind of a balance. I mean, even out look, we're going on a family vacation and we're gonna pay for the kids. But if they you know, Ashley again, she's like, Well, yeah, do you think we should get the upgraded drinks package? And we're like, No. Would you tell her like if you want to pay for your own upgraded drinks package, you go for it. Do you really want to do that though? But we're not doing that and we're not paying for yours? Yeah, you know, I get it. You know, like if they want to do that but then she's gonna think oh, I got to pay for the puppy this coming. So it's all one big thing and as long as they understand that

Jamila Souffrant 49:25

and it makes them make that decision okay. What is that really that important to me? Like money is not unlimited in this scenario. So I have to make a choice.

Bobbi Rebell 49:33

Exactly. And and they do I mean, the truth is that we did not pay any of our closing costs, we didn't pay for her down payment. She did live at home for two years and you know, we weren't charging her for like laundry detergent. We weren't picking that kind of thing. So she definitely had a big head start with that. But then you know, she got you know, used carpet. I think we did buy her bed, but she really scrounged for that stuff I told you about that spreadsheet. I mean, she owned it, and it's really important to let them live at the right level. For where they are in life, because we may be at a point where we'll buy, you know, a lighting fixture for X dollars, but that doesn't mean that that's what they should do, they might buy it somewhere a lot less expensive, because that's what's right for their lifestyle and, and it gives them something to work for. What's the fun of having everything handed to you, it's boring, you want to be proud of it. And I see she sometimes sends me this is sort of, I would never share them publicly. But she shows me some text from her friends that are sort of partially jealous of her, but also, like, not happy that two and a half years after graduation was three years after graduation, they are not in a good financial position to live separate from their parents. And they're basically saying, I'm never gonna get out of this unless my parents write me a check. I think one of her friends texted her that and she like rolled her eyes, she's, and she wrote to the text to me, like, Thank God, that's not me. I'm so grateful to you. It was just really sweet. So I learned not to judge but I did judge. And she wrote the epilogue to the book. That's my favorite part of the book. And I resisted the urge to change it. Like I did not change a word and boy did I want to like tweak it and discuss it with her, but I let it be. It's all her. She talks about this. She bought this during the pandemic, living rent free in my house saving money. She and her boyfriend bought season passes for Disney World. I went ballistic on her I was like, What are you doing? We are you're living here rent free. As you can imagine, I was like, not happy. This is not okay. And she did the math. And I was still not happy. But she's like, this is my only vacation. Flights are like, you know, the $10. I mean, it was a pandemic, they were like free. She's like, I can go down there. They're open, it's empty. I'm safe. I wear my mask. You know, I've got my I don't know if the vaccinations wherever she's always had whatever vaccinations and she's like, this is where we go on every vacation. And I know how to save the money. And this is important to me, and I budgeted for it. And she did it. And I'm still a little bit not that happy about it. But if you read the epilogue to the book, she will lay out her case. And that's the thing. You have to let them lay out their case and live their life. And even if it wasn't the best financial decision, it was the best decision for her with her money. And as we said at the beginning, she has agency is her money that she's earning. And she's gotten lots of raises. She's working her tishie off. She works all hours. She has one of those grind jobs. I mean, she really works. I mean, she's earning good money, but she is working for it. That's what she wants to do for her vacations. And she will justify it to you and she loves it. And it's her life.

Jamila Souffrant 52:32

Right? And you have to allow them you have to allow them to like you said live it have agency over it. Hopefully, you know make mistakes that are not unfixable. And they can move on.

Bobbi Rebell 52:43

And by the way, I'm sure you were perfect, but I did all kinds of things. I bought my apartment young and I had equity in the apartment. What's the first thing I did I got a HELOC home equity line of credit. And what did I use it for? To buy a Hamptons chair. Which by the way, it was more money than her Disneyworld thing. It's completely irresponsible. I just took out debt, basically for vacation, same drill. So who am I like you got to let it just be.

Jamila Souffrant 53:07

We all do it. That's the thing. And I mean, I bought I remember buying my BMW in cash because I had a bonus. Oh, no. I did. I bought it in cash. When I first moved into my condo that I bought at 22 Like I was and I was driving my old car, I literally was gonna drive that ultimate until like the wheels fell off. And literally, they almost did because it stalled in the Holland Tunnel while driving to work like literally it stopped in the Holland Tunnel started smoking. That's scary. It was because like, you know how the Holland Tunnel is like it's rush hour, it stopped like started smoking

Bobbi Rebell 53:39

people that don't know it's tight. It's narrow and tight. It's scary.

Jamila Souffrant 53:43

I'm saying all this to say that it wasn't like I just didn't run to go buy the BMW like my car literally did break down and I was like, Alright, I'm just gonna buy a new car. But you didn't need to buy a BMW. I didn't and it was used but it was used it was a coupe. And I remember this because I was like, Okay, I'm living in this like, nice apartment, this nice area. Now I can have a car and mash that, you know. So I was like, for a couple years. I was like living that life of nice like apartment. Nice car. And I don't regret it. Yes, I could have you know that money if we did the math could have been worth $30,000. It was times point return over? Yeah, yeah. But it doesn't matter. Because at that moment, it for me, it made me happy. Knowing what I know. Now I do it differently. But I didn't know that. And so I'm just gonna like take it off. Take it us like chalk it up as a lesson. And I think we all deserve to kind of have that. But you know what I will say my, my lesson or fail, quote unquote, was in relation to my income. So I was able to buy it. It's not like I bought it in cash. I mean, and I think it's important to where someone may say, well, Jamila was able to do this. And now I want to do this too. But I was able to support the lifestyle that I was living at the time. And now I've made different choices. So I can have a different lifestyle. But it's important, like you said to what are your means, what's your income? Are you making mistakes that correlate with your income versus they're kind of like mistakes that actually we'll talk What you built so far and puts you far in the back when it comes to race time?

Bobbi Rebell 55:05

Right? Well, you could afford the car. To be clear, you could afford the car, you didn't even take on debt for the car, which is incredible. I think what you're saying is that in retrospect, maybe you would have spent less on a car and put more money into savings or other things. So it's a question of Yeah, how you would allocate your assets in retrospect, but you were completely responsible. And I think it's also as we talked about with a country club or with Ashley, you know, splurging on the baby city. It's important that we live our lives, we've learned with a pandemic, that things happen. And you know, we are doing things as a family now. Because I don't know what the future will hold. And my husband and I are both healthy. We're in our 50s. We've got kids that are young adults. So we're not dealing with, you know, stroke, traveling with strollers and things like that you guys are still doing it. There's so much stuff when you travel with young children. Oh, my God. So you know, we've got mobile kids, you know, the youngest is 14, there's a lot that we can do in this age range. And also we're sensitive. What if you know a child gets married and has kids then we got babies again. So it's harder to travel. So I'm like, Okay, this is the window. We're going on the cruise to Alaska. And I delegated it to Ashley to like, price it out. And she's been great. And you know, we're doing it, we're not doing the fanciest, fanciest, but we're doing a nice level, and it's gonna be great. And it's really important to show up and do those things as a family and have those life experiences because you don't know what's going to happen. Not just with your health, and your money, but with the world, things change, who would have thought we're going to, I hope it'll still be open. But the crews lives from leaves from Vancouver. Well, a year ago, we couldn't leave, you couldn't go to Canada. So, so many things that are unforeseen happen. So it's really important to use our money to also live our life, it's a balance and show your children that. Look, I know a lot of your listeners are fire movement, I support that nothing bad will ever happen from saving too much money. So please go for it if you want to. But also don't forget to also live, live your life and make sure you have enough money saved up for orthodonture that's a big thing. Because I'm just telling you, you think you're living on 40 grand a year and you think you can you know, whatever all the crazy things that you do that are amazing, and I'm an all have to have really low expenses, but then you're gonna get hit with braces. That's my big parenting. orthodonture is the thing,

Jamila Souffrant 57:17

which I kind of see for some like our kids like, Oh man, I think you need braces,

Bobbi Rebell 57:21

Wisdom teeth, Wisdom teeth. My God. We could go on a whole dental show with children.

Jamila Souffrant 57:26

Bobby, please tell everyone where they can help find out more about you and your new book.

Bobbi Rebell 57:32

So the best place to go in general is just my website, which is my name Bobby rebel calm. Everything comes from there. I would love for you guys to check out grownup gear Jamila looks amazing. And all of her grownup gear, so much fun stuff for all the adulting phases of our life from weddings, engagements, bachelor parties, bachelorette parties, and we have baby stuff now. It's so super cute, though. Some of the bibs say like I can't believe you're grown up either. So cute. And the book is everywhere. And my podcast, Money Tips for financial grownups.

Jamila Souffrant 58:00

Yes. And I want to say Bobby rebel is B, O, B, B i R E, B E ll calm. I'll put all this in the show notes that you'll be able to just click the link and connect with Bobby and get her book there. So thank you once again, Bobby, for coming on the show. It was a delight to catch up and talk with you.

Bobbi Rebell 58:16

Oh is amazing to see you. And by the way, we didn't say this. We met because I was I was your mentor for a hot minute. And then it very quickly became clear that I was going to learn just as much, if not more from you as well. So thank you to fin con for matching us up as mentor and mentee back in 2016. Oh my goodness.

Jamila Souffrant 58:36

I can't believe that either. And again, if you want to hear Bobby's first interview where we talk more about us meeting that is on Episode What did I say was that 45 or 4040 something 40 something 40 Something I'll put that in the show notes too. Don't forget you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journey to launch comm or click the description of wherever you're listening to this. And you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch comm slash Jumpstart. If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you're not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple podcasts, rate review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review number to follow me on my social media accounts. I'm at journey to launch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And I love love love interacting with journeyers. They're three support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here. So show them some love for supporting You girl for and last but not least, share this episode this podcast with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to launch. Alright, that's it until next week, keep on journeying journeyers