Episode 239- How To Fire The Haters And Find The Courage To Create Online In A Critical World With Jillian Johnsrud

Jamila Souffrant 0:00

You're listening to the Journey To Launch Podcast: How To Fire The Haters And Find The Courage To Create Online In A Critical World With Jillian Johnsrud.

Intro 0:12

T-minus 10 seconds. Welcome to the Journey To Launch Podcast with your host, Jamila Souffrant. As a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave Journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the Journey To Launch to financial freedom in five, four, three, two, one.

Jamila Souffrant 0:40

Hey, hey, hey, Journeyers. Back with another interview episode for you. And you know, I always love giving you topics that don't always seem financially based. I mean, this one is not one of those topics, where it's just like, let's talk about budgeting and investing. We're talking about mindset a bit here. We're talking about how to create in this world. If you are a creator wanting to put out work in the world, that can change the world and your life and you're not doing it because you're afraid of what people think, the quote unquote haters. Or maybe you have a strong internal hater, like that internal voice that stops you. This episode is for you. And by the way, you know, I got love from our corporate people. You don't have to be an entrepreneur, or someone who wants to create to learn from this conversation. Jillian, who is the guest on this show, we are going to be talking about her new book, "Fire The Haters," and what that means and how we can create in a critical world and bring our best selves to the world and basically be who we were intended to be without the blocks of other people's thoughts and our own thoughts. So I'm really excited to chat with Jillian. Now, Jillian has been on the podcast before, so she is repeat Journeyer, or I should say repeat guest. So, if you want to hear more about Jillian's backstory on reaching financial independence, she was on episode 96 of the podcast. So in that episode, Jillian talks about how she and her husband reached financial independence. She was 32 years old, and how she paid off $55,000 of debt. It's a really great interview and episode. You can check that out by going to journeytolaunch.com/episode 96. But you can listen to this one first. And in it, we're going to talk all about how to fire the haters and really create in this space, so you can live your best life. And just a little bit more about Jillian: After becoming financially independent at 32 years old, Jillian turned her personal and professional experience towards a creative life. She is a popular public speaker and teaches online classes. Coach and writer. Her book, "Fire The Haters: Find The Courage To Create Online In A Critical World," helps creatives and entrepreneurs share their best work with the world. She hosts "The Everyday Courage" podcast. Her and her husband live in Montana and she's an avid world traveler and drinker of hot tea.

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If you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to journeytolaunch.com, or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. In the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned, and so much more. Also, whether you are An OG Journeyer or are brand new to the podcast, I've created a FREE Jumpstart Guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes to listen to, stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources, and so much more. You can go to journeytolaunch.com/jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Hey, Journeyers! So we have a returning guest on the podcast. I'm really excited to talk about what she's been up to and her new book and it's Jillian Johnsrud on the podcast. Hi, Jillian!

Jillian Johnsrud 4:54

Hello. Thanks so much for having me back.

Jamila Souffrant 4:57

Yeah, so right before I press record, Jillian is such a calm presence. And I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna slow down, like, I'm still gonna have the energy, but I'm going to slow down how fast I talk so I can get zen like Julian," but Julian was on episode 96 of the podcast. And she shared her journey to financial independence, how she achieved a flexible way of creating the life she wanted. So you can always, after you listen to this, go back and check out her original episode, 96. But I was excited to have Jillian back on the podcast, because she has a new book out called, "Fire the haters." And if you're watching this, we're gonna, we intend to put this out on YouTube. So here's the picture of the book. And it's the subtext, "Finding The Courage To Create Online In A Critical World." So, Jillian, before I let you do all what you do, I want to just say I think this is an important topic, because in this space, in this digital world that we have nowadays, a lot of the ways that we are putting our content out, there making money via side hustle, is through the internet, right? It's through a blog, or podcast or social media. And I know so many people who listen, maybe they have their own brands or businesses already. And there's such a stress on or, or I think a focus on having a personal brand that also shares like the personal side of things, not just here's my product, buy it, like that doesn't work anymore. And so with that, people want to show up in the world, make an impact and make money. But we can't do that, unless we can cut through the noise of the haters externally, and the hater within ourselves. So, I think this is just perfect for you to come on and talk about so long intro but welcome to the podcast again.

Jillian Johnsrud 6:36

I'm so excited to be back here. And I'm so excited talking about my book. Yeah, you write all by yourself for so long, and then you're like, "Oh, we finally get to talk about it!"

Jamila Souffrant 6:45

Yeah. So why this book? Because I know you're, you know, when you first came on the podcast, you were talking about specifically financial independence, your, your brand, your original personal finance brand is about that. And this, kind of, it seems like an intersection of that, but why did you decide to write this book on this topic now?

Jillian Johnsrud 7:05

It was two reasons. Or three, I guess. One, this was really a big struggle for me. When I started creating online, when I started sharing, I had no idea how to navigate life online. And I made every mistake, but I also, like, it was kind of miserable. Like, I learned everything the hard way. And I coach a lot of small business owners who have a service, but need to build an online presence. And this is such a stumbling block for most people, even when they're thinking about, like, "I would love to do something. I would love to," you know? But this sharing it online piece is the part they go, "Oh gosh, I don't know if I'm cut out for that. I don't know if I can handle that." And I think that was my misconception. I almost gave up, like, right at the beginning. Because I had this really bad experience. And I just thought, "I don't know if I'm cut out for this. I don't know if I can handle this." And thankfully, a friend emailed me back and said, "Oh, sweetie, like you never read the comments." And it was the first time that I realized, "Oh, there's different rules online. Like there's different ways that people keep themselves sane and productive and healthy and working without becoming, like, a neurotic, melting mess about this." And the third reason is I just, I love creatives and love entrepreneurs, like, I think that they're the people who are going to help change the world. And I know that a lot of them don't start, because they fear the online criticism, or a lot of them give up. And I just thought if I could, if I could condense all of our collective knowledge into one, like, easy to read guide book that would keep people in the game. That seemed like a fantastic place to start.

Jamila Souffrant 8:54

Yeah, it is a great starting point. And it does keep a lot of people stuck. Even where I am now, there are things that I don't post and are, I feel like, I think about too much and, like, "Oh, but what if it has this reaction?" So I don't think it ever stops, like you know, and you'll be surprised at certain people, you think they have arrived, or they're at a certain level, and they're still struggling with this.

Jillian Johnsrud 9:15

For sure. And every time we think about going bigger, you know, maybe you got started, but a bigger opportunity comes, you know, it would be a lot more exposure. And that first thought we think is, "Oh, that's gonna bring a whole new wave of criticism, a whole new wave of, like, haters," and a lot of people go, "I think I'm just okay where I'm at, like, maybe I don't need to, maybe I don't need to go with a bigger."

Jamila Souffrant 9:42

Yeah, yeah, and that's the thing too, right? Like you can create in this space and be anonymous, in a way. And that kind of helps you, in a way, to not have that outward facing attention. But I've just seen from my content, like, when I've shared more-- and in a way that makes me feel okay, but like when I shared more of my personal story, that made a bigger impact, because people could connect more with me. Alright, let's talk about what it means to fire the haters. What if someone is out there right now, they have a thing they want to put out, and they're afraid of what people are gonna think. One, how do you define haters? Because that's one thing. And how does one, at all, get over the fact that there are just some people who were not going to like your work? And, I know this is a third question, the same question, but there's a difference between a hater and someone who's giving you critical feedback. So how do we determine the difference?

Jillian Johnsrud 10:35

Yeah, I think about in this sense, haters are kind of the bad actors online. Bad actors are unruly, contentious, like, they're just out to pick a fight. And it's not a thoughtful criticism. Oftentimes, what kind of separates a hater versus a thoughtful critic is that the hater doesn't have a logical argument to stand on. Therefore, because they don't have logic on their side, they can't ask a thoughtful question. They're not learning. They're not seeking to learn or to grow. They have to weaponize emotions. So instead of using logic and reason, they will turn to anger, to shame, to bullying, to just nastiness, to try to manipulate you into changing. To either giving up, or stopping, or complying, you know, kind of policing people. So it's exactly what they want. Exactly to their taste and preference, but they can't fall back on logic, and reason, and thoughtfulness, because they don't have that on their side.

Jamila Souffrant 11:44

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, that's the clear definition of that. And so, when it comes to now creating content and putting it out there, the thing is too, right? Like you said, there's different levels. So sometimes, if you're just starting out, there's not gonna be that many people, it's a more of a safe place to be. Just family and friends, which most times they won't necessarily say anything hurtful, but as you start getting more traction, which most people do want to do, you start getting exposed to different audiences, different types of hater. So, let's talk about that. Yeah, how does one stop themselves from showing up small and not growing, because they think that they're gonna be more haters, when they get to that place?

Jillian Johnsrud 12:25

You know, I actually think it's really tough when we're just starting to. You know? You mentioned, like, our friends and family might not say anything negative, But a lot of people struggle, you know, we were just sitting at an event, and I asked a group of people, you know, all creatives all entrepreneurs, how many of you, your friends and family, they totally understand what you do. They're super supportive, they get it, and they like, are in your corner cheering you on. And out of the entire roomful of people, one person raised their hand. Most of us have people in our lives who either just don't get what we do, they don't want to get, they don't think it's a good idea. You know, and so there's this other category, not so much of haters, but people who just shouldn't be the voting member in your life. We're not living by committee. And they don't have to understand, you know? not everyone has to get it. Not everyone has to be your biggest cheerleader. Even though, you know, one person came up to me afterwards, like, but what if, like, they're not supportive, but I really want them to be supportive. And it's tough, because if someone doesn't want to understand, and they don't want to be supportive, we can't force them. You know. If you have family members who really want to understand and they're asking honest questions, and like, trying to understand, they will eventually understand, and if they want to be supportive, and they're like, "How can I support you? How can I encourage you?" Like, they will get there, but oftentimes, we have this group of people who just doesn't get it, because they don't have-- they weren't given the exact same vision for our life that we were given, like, that was a gift, unique to us. And it's okay, if not everyone else sees it before we like manifest it.

Jamila Souffrant 14:19

That's really a good point, because I know that's also something where people hold on to. Where, you know, I don't expect that my family or friends actually listen to my podcast or, like, support my work. Like, it's nice if they do, obviously, but I've kind of let that go a long time ago, because I realized that everyone's living in their own world, and I'm not the center of that world. I've just learned to realize that it was more important to care about the work I did, and if you listen, that's fine, but I won't hold a grudge or be resentful if you're not purchasing. First of all, I don't want you to buy it just because it's me. Like, I actually only want you to buy this thing or support this thing if it works for you. Because if you only build a business based on people supporting you, because they feel obligated to, then you don't really have a business. So what does one do them? So yeah, so if they don't have that support initially, and now they want to grow something, they want to put something out in the world. How do they find a network that's supportive, that can help them do the time now, when they actually do get real haters online?

Jillian Johnsrud 15:18

You know, I think every, every type of person who ends up being really successful, knows other people who are successful just like them. You know, actors, know other actors, songwriters, know other songwriters, you'll never meet someone who's like, you know, a long distance runner who's like, "Yeah, it's weird. Like, I've never, we've never really known any other long distance runners. Like 30 years in the game. It's just been me." And so it's finding that tribe, finding that community of like-minded people who are doing the things you want to do. Who were in the spaces you want to do. And it does allow you to, kind of, let your friends and family off the hook, you know, they don't have to be entrepreneurs, they don't have to be creatives. They don't have to be investors or real estate people because you've got those people in your corner.

Jamila Souffrant 16:08

Yeah, that's such a good point. So how do you then for someone who was building something, and they do get negative feedback, and maybe it's a hater, maybe it's critical, depending on how the person structured it? How do they navigate that and still continue to want to put out work? Because I think sometimes we look at the positive comments, like you said, You got that that response from your friend, don't read the comments. But often times, like, the comments are indication, sometimes, oh, wow, this hit a nerve in a good way, or they give me feedback. So it's like, you want to read the comments, or you want feedback. And you don't want to just ignore anything that's not positive, because then maybe you're going to be in this like echo chamber and false reality. So how do you navigate and take what you need to take to improve and leave behind that you don't?

Jillian Johnsrud 16:57

At the core of it, it's having like emotional boundaries with your work. It's so tough for us, especially as creatives, as entrepreneurs, like, the things that we make are born out of our taste and our personality and our thoughts and our ideas and our stories and our voice. And it feels like an extension of us out in the world. So it's really tough if someone's, like, attacking part of us. Or we think about it like our baby, because we, we created this thing, and we, like, we developed it, we raised it up. But if you're gonna think about it, as a child, I think about it, like it's grown. Like it's a grown adult. And it's graduated from college, you had a graduation party, you waved goodbye, and it is out there in the world, doing its job. It has work to do. And it's, kind of, none of your business. If my grown child is having a conflict at work, and someone says something mean to them, I might want to, but I'm not gonna storm into the office and be like, "Who's being mean to my kid? Like, you all to be nice to him!" Like, because he's grown. And he has his own life. And I think about our work the same way. if you've shipped it into the world, it's done. That season of raising something up is over. And it needs to stand on its own. Whether people love it, whether people hate it, whether people misunderstand it, or make the wrong assumptions. It's grown it can handle it.

Jamila Souffrant 18:30

I love that. I love like, yeah, it could be your child, but not your baby that you have to like, you know, feel like you got to really mama bear and protect, but like, okay, I let you out in the world. I did my I did my part. Now it's your part.

Jillian Johnsrud 18:42

Yeah. Its success and failure is also its own. So I think one of the things that makes us a little neurotic, is when we over identify with our works, success or failure, because we're playing a super high stakes game, where our identity is tied to these outcomes that we don't entirely control. Obviously, on the failure side, but even on success side. Whenever you hear someone like, "Wow, that really went to their head." That ain't a compliment. Or, you know, even with my work sometimes at events, people come up to me and be like, "Oh my gosh, like, you changed my life. Like, you did this and, like, and all these things happened. And I'm just," I'm kind of in my head, I'm thinking, "Yeah, that wasn't me. That was my work, and you changed your life. I'm glad my work was helpful, but like, I wasn't there, I was chilling in Montana, I was drinking a cup of coffee, like, I wasn't in the room," and savior complex -- also not a compliment. Like, it will-- it would only make us neurotic as creatives and entrepreneurs to overly identify with our works, success and failure.

Jamila Souffrant 19:56

I love that you said that, because I get that now. It was just so odd, you know, like, as someone who was a spectator in the field and watched other people and was inspired by other people in the space. So now I have people tell me like, "Wait, you were the person that, like, inspired me to do this." And it's like, you know, you take the compliment, and I understand it, and I, like, appreciate it. And then it's also like, it's not my, like, I didn't give you the power, you already have the power inside. And I love that, that keeps me humble in a way, to understand that it's not me, like, it's the work flowing through me, but it's you that have the power. So I really do like that.

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When it comes to our internal, because I gotta say, like, I honestly don't focus on negativity, like in terms of haters, like I don't if I have them, I don't know they exist. I don't get a lot of negative comments. And maybe that's, you know, I don't look forward to that. But I'm just like, maybe I'm not at the space or the place where that's happening yet. But I find that most of the things that stopped me from putting out work was my own self. Like, it's my own idea of what people will say. It's almost it's like our project like, "Wait, if I post this, what if people..." sometimes it's not, they won't even say. I don't even think they're gonna type it. I think they're gonna think it and that will sometimes stop me. Which I'm like, "Really Jamila? You know better than this." And when, it's when I put out that like work that I'm, like, "Oh, I don't know if I should do this. I'm just gonna do it." And like, it could be as simple posts, and then people resonate with that the most. I'm like, see, like, there you go. Like, what do you-- how do you-- how do we all deal with that part of ourselves? Not the external hater, but the little voice inside that is the hater, or the person that keeps us small?

Jillian Johnsrud 22:08

It stems from this fear of being misunderstood. Fear that people will make the wrong assumptions, that they'll think the wrong things. That they'll, kind of, come to the wrong conclusions. That wasn't what we were hoping. In the book I talk about, like, give yourself the gift of being misunderstood. You're going to put something out there, and it's the difference between marketing and opinion. Marketing is convincing someone to try something. After they try it, whatever they think, whatever they feel, whatever they assume, they get to keep that. That's their opinion. It's, like, I can convince you to like, come to the movie with me, but after you watch the movie, you're gonna think about it whatever you want, like, I can't convince you to like something that you've already decided, "I don't like that movie. I wasn't good. Wasn't funny." And so sometimes, you know, we're worried that people are going to come to the wrong conclusions. And we put our best effort. We put our best intention in things, but the reality is that our story, and our work, is going to mix with someone else. And I think about it like a chemical reaction, like we're providing one element, but there's a whole periodic table of other elements out there, and you don't know what someone else, like, what element they're bringing to the table. So you really can't predict the reaction. You can't predict the assumption. And so I think the more we can feel like, "Well, that's not really my business. Like, what you thought of that movie, it's not my job to talk you out of that. It's not my job to convince you that it was actually a smart, clever movie, when you're like, "That was stupid."" Just letting people have their thoughts and their feelings and our emotions, even if it wasn't my intention.

Jamila Souffrant 23:59

Yeah, you know, and as you're talking, I know, this is like about creating online, and I'm thinking about the people who are not creators yet, or creating things online, but they're in a work environment, and I do think it's similar. Even though it's like, it's like, saying that thing in the meeting and raising your hand, or speaking up about something and being afraid of what your coworkers or your boss will think of you. And, you may have legit haters, like, where you work, and you just know that, "Oh, my gosh, you're gonna like think negatively or say something?" Or you may be projecting that. So can we talk through that a little bit, because I'm talking to that person, and I thinking of myself here, where I was afraid sometimes of what people thought of me in my office when I worked in corporate, and this, these all tie into money? So I know like this way we haven't talked about, you know, this is a personal finance podcast, and we're talking about like something on a tangent, but it's not. Like, my ability to push through that voice and not care what people think, not that I'm recovered fully from it, but that has actually what I've been able to do that has allowed me to earn more money and reach my goals. So this totally is in line with money. But can we talk to that person right now who's like, "You need to speak up more screw what people think?" Let's talk about that.

Jillian Johnsrud 25:07

I think about it-- I love gardening. And I'm obsessed gardening. So I think about it like a garden that is your responsibility. Like you own it. It's your job that everything in there thrives. And it's really a matter of boundaries. It's that fence that you put around it, and only you get to decide what's allowed in to that fence. And so this idea of firing the haters, it's taking back that, that power and saying, "Actually, I am in charge of my garden." Like, I'm in charge of what comes in and what's allowed in. And your garden is like your responsibility. If you want to grow weeds there, I don't care. If you want to be, like, a negative person, that's your thing, and that's actually not my business, because that's your garden. And so being mindful of, like, taking care of, like, your business and if someone tries to bring hate, negativity, or anything that you've decided, "Actually, this isn't good for my plants," whether that's your friends, whether that's your family, whether that's in your office, like, you control the gate. It's not even so much about not caring, as it is, it's none of your business. Like, that's their business. What they think about you, how they feel about you, the assumptions they make, they get to keep that. Even with like insults or being offended. I think about it like a dog that doesn't fetch. Have you ever seen a puppy that just, like, hasn't learned? The owner like keeps throwing the ball, the dog looks at it, like, "I don't know what you're wanting from me here. I'm not picking that up," and the owner goes and picks up the ball and throws it again. If insults and, like, offense, I think about that, like you can keep throwing it. But I'm not playing this game. Like you just better walk over there and pick that up and try again. But like, I'm not engaging in your game. Just because you want to throw an offense my way, doesn't mean I'm going to catch it, or I'm going to go pick it up for ya.

Jamila Souffrant 27:03

I love that thought process. Because it's true. It's like, you don't have to take it on. And a lot of times, like, the person that is reacting to you or is being negative to you has again, you're not this, like they literally have other things going on. And you think that you're the focus and you're not. You're just an excuse for them to let something out.

Jillian Johnsrud 27:19

Yeah, yeah. And everyone has their own, all their own stuff, you know? And like I said, it's, it's like the periodic table. There's so many elements, you don't know what they're bringing to the table. So you can't be responsible for the reaction, especially if it's something you can't predict. They've never said anything. They've never said, "Hey, like--" you know, I talk about in the book, one of the unsuspecting bad actors is the applecart people. Like one little thing happens and their whole apple cart gets tipped over. And you're like, "Wait, why? What? What was what was happening," and sometimes, you know, people have histories and they have past hurts and they have triggers and, and we just don't know that. Until you see the apples go everywhere. And so it's I'm kind of compassionate, like I have empathy for that, you know, and when you can tell that there's a collective shame, a collective trauma, when one thing happens, and like, the whole farmers market, like every apple cart gets tipped over all at once, and you're like, "Oh, I stepped on something that, like, I didn't... I didn't realize there was, there was more going on here." And so, as people online, when you're responsible for communities of people, especially understanding, like, collective shame, collective trauma, because people are gonna have some big applecart moments and, like, you might not realize, "Wait why is everyone freaking out about this?" And that's a good time to like dig a little bit deeper and listen to like, what is it that triggered a whole group of people?

Jamila Souffrant 28:58

Yeah, I-- that's really good, too, because we-- especially in this charged time, like, there's so many people on different sides of the thought and belief system on different things, like and I just feel like it's so much easier now to express your opinion. But as you grow, I find, like in my community, sometimes I'm just like, you know, I forget almost my power. My platform has grown, right? Like it was just me and it's like, I don't want to talk about a specific topic or you know, a social issue or something, like, when it was just me, like, talking to two people, like, that was fine, right? And growing and having kind of like the responsibility of like my voice in this space, and like the 1,000s of people who now listen to the podcast, it's a I feel like it's a different responsibility. So being still me and not wanting to force myself to do things I'm not prepared to do or talk about things I'm not going to talk about, but realizing that this is a responsibility that I now have, because I've grown this platform is very interesting to me. I find myself in positions where I'm like, "Does this person know it's just me? Like they think I'm like this big like conglomerate, like, company. And like, it's just me!" I mean, I have great people who work with me, but like, this is not like a big bank or Target or grocery store that is... has a lot of resources to then put their attention and make sure everything is correct, like, so I don't know, I find that that also can be a little overwhelming as I grow too.

Jillian Johnsrud 30:21

Yeah. And I think that's the right attitude. That transparency of like, I'm learning and I'm growing, and I'm not perfect. And there's a lot of things I don't speak into, just because I don't know what I'm talking about. Like, I am not the right person to listen to on so many topics. So I try to, for me, I try to stay in my purview. Like if, if I have personal experience with something, then I feel like maybe I have something to add. And if I don't, then there's better people out there, like, that I can point people to like, they have something interesting to say about this. But like, I don't think we have to pretend to be, what we're not.

Jamila Souffrant 31:00

Yeah. So what do you say to the person now like, "Alright, Jillian, I am going to like, try to push my work out there and just do the work." And the last part of your book talks more about, like, that consistency. Like how do you have the courage and dedication, because what happens is, you know, you can start putting content out there, and maybe you get some, you know, negative responses or no responses. And you have to keep going. Like, it's really, like, the consistency encouraged to keep going. So what do you say to that person who isn't seeing traction, isn't even getting a hater comment. They're like, "You know what I would actually, like, if I got a comment at all. I don't care if it's positive or negative." for them to keep going.

Jillian Johnsrud 31:39

Yeah. You know, everything that ends up working, I believe is built on all of the experiences that didn't work out. Like, and all of the relationships that we built along the way. And, and so you don't have to write a chapter about, like, the myth of the most experty expert, like you don't have to be the most experty expert. You just have to keep going. And oftentimes, I think about, you know, we have this vision of where we want to be. And each attempt is, like, dry stacking a stone wall. Like, where I live, down the street, there's this beautiful dry stack stone wall, and every stone that they put on it fell short of the intention of where that wall was supposed to end up. But every single stone made the wall an inch taller. And that's the process. You don't start off knowing all the things and being the best at all the things. Like you start where you are. And the number one thing you have to optimize for, when you start any project, is not quitting. And so whatever that story, whatever that idea in your head, that could sink the ship, you need to rewrite that. If it's like, "I have to, I have to make a full time income the first year. Or I have to have this many, like, customers. Or my product has to be this far into development, or else that means I'm not cut out for it, or I'm not good enough or this isn't working or I've gone the wrong way." Like, whatever stakes, like, game that you've set up in your mind, I would just optimize for not quitting.

Jamila Souffrant 33:21

Yeah, yeah. And this great timing, because I interviewed Jon Acuff who has the book "Soundtracks," who this episode, will most likely come out after this, that one aired, so it's another one, to listen to, Journeyers, to help with how you're thinking about your life and how you can reprogram what it is that's fueling you are not fueling you towards your goals. So Jillian, the other thing I just want to mention, I kinda want to catch up and update from your financial independence journey. I know when you first came on the podcast, you talked about paying off debt and reaching financial independence at 32 years old. Is that right? And something that, you know, most people who listen to this podcast, like, that's the journey they're on. Like they're trying to reach their financial goals. And it's being fueled by their work and all the interests that they have in their life. But, what have you been up to since we last spoke? Do you still view your freedom of time and money the same? Have things evolved for you since we last spoke?

Jillian Johnsrud 34:18

Once we became financially independence, it was, kind of, this not crisis, but kind of this self-realization moment, and that all the goals I had, you know, I wanted to adopt kids, I wanted to travel the world. I wanted to pay cash for a house, I wanted to become financially independent, like, we had achieved all those things, at 32. And it was very much a, "Oh, what's next? Like, we need to dream new dreams. Like we need to come up with a new vision for what the second chapter is going to look like." And I think, I think, we're still in that process of, what do we like? What do we enjoy? You know, we're always testing And scaling, and figuring things out. You know, in 2020, I wrote my first book. And that had always been kind of on my list of like, "Oh, that would be cool." But when I was in my 20s, I didn't even actually put it on my list of, like, things I will do, because it felt so unachievable. It felt so, honestly, kind of indulgent and impractical. You know, growing up without a lot of money, you really do the job that pays on Friday, because like, you gotta buy groceries this weekend, like you don't do these things that are high risk, or like long reward. And so it's been fun exploring, exploring this online world, but entrepreneurship and, and kind of that more indulgent, like, what's the work I really want to do? And I think for a lot of people, especially on the FI path, there's the job that pays them on Friday, which is fantastic, but they have this, "But what would I want to do? Like, what's that indulgent thing that, if I didn't have to make money, like I would love to give this a try, or I would love to explore that." But then again, like all this imposter syndrome and fear of failure, and like, what if I'm not good enough? What if it doesn't work out? Stops people from even starting, from even trying.

Jamila Souffrant 36:20

Hmm, yeah, yeah. And so, I would encourage, I think that this is great. I think everyone should pick up your book, we're going to tell them in a minute where they can find it. But, I would encourage, if you're in that position, like I do, I do know that it's a privilege, I have a privilege now, I mean, I always recognize my privilege. Even when I was working, even coming here as immigrant, like, it's a privilege to have had the experiences and opportunities that I've had. But I realized now I'm in a privileged place where I can say no to things that just don't feel good. Even, you know, even if it's a lot of money, I'm just like, "You know what, it's not worth my time and energy. I'm okay, I can pay the bills." And, you know, I think for a lot of people who are navigating that, like they have the full time job and/or they're entrepreneurs, but the things that they have to do to bring in the money are not the real things they want to do. It's that balance of like, paying their bills and paying their soul, you know? Paying, like, what makes them feel happy. So any last words on someone trying to find that balance, where they don't have the money, yet, they're not financially independent, but they want to explore these things, and their creative side?

Jillian Johnsrud 37:23

I think that's it. Like, just start exploring, you know? And it doesn't have to, kind of, like those scripts. It doesn't have to be big, it doesn't have to replace your income, you don't have to be at a certain spot, at a certain time. My first two metrics when I started were gross. Like, as an I wanted to grow as a person. I wanted to learn and, and change and figure things out. And relationships. And those were the only two metrics I measured. Am I growing as a person? Am I building relationships? And if I was doing those two things, I knew I was doing the two things that would become foundational for whatever project I took on that would work. Start there, if that makes sense. Just growing as a person, learning, figuring things out, learning about yourself, and building relationships, building that tribe with people that get what you're trying to do.

Jamila Souffrant 38:18

Love it. This is such great advice. So Jillia, please tell everyone where they can pick up your book and follow you.

Jillian Johnsrud 38:24

It is available everywhere: Amazon, Barnes & Noble, you can order it through local bookstores, on my site, Gillianjohnsrud.com/book. You can get links to all of those places.

Jamila Souffrant 38:36

Okay. What's your, uh, social media If they want to, like, follow you?

Jillian Johnsrud 38:40

@jillianjohnsrud.

Jamila Souffrant 38:42

Okay, I'll put that all in the episode show notes. Thank you so much, Jillian.

Jillian Johnsrud 38:45

Thanks so much for having me.

Jamila Souffrant 38:50

All right, Journeyers, I really hope you enjoyed that conversation. As I said, whether you are an online creator or not. Someone who's just being in this world, we have to deal with other people and we don't want other people's thoughts and opinions to stop who we can potentially be. The light that we have cannot be stopped. If we allow it to be stopped, it will be, but if we want to shine, it cannot be stopped. If we have this focus on getting through the noise and even our own noise, right? Like that soundtrack that we may think that keeps us behind. How do we get through that?

So, if you enjoyed this episode, please let me know I'm @journeytolaunch on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. I love hearing from you. What stood out about the episode? You'll notice I tried to do this, but when you say, "Oh, I love the episode!" I'm like, "What did you like about it?" I love digging deeper into, just, your motivation and what helps you connect with the content and then helps me better give you more content like this. So thanks again for joining me in this conversation!

Don't forget, you can get the episode show notes for this episode by going to journeytolaunch.com, or click the description of wherever you're listening to this and you can still grab your Jumpstart Guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journeytolaunch.com/jumpstart. If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show: One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple Podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this and Apple Podcasts, rate, review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm @journeytolaunch on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. And I love, love, love, interacting with Journeyers there. Three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you. Sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here. So, show them some love for supporting your girl. Four, and last but not least, share this episode this podcast with a friend or family member or co worker, so that we can spread the message of Journey to Launch. Alright, that's it until next week. Keep on journeying Journeyers.