Episode 221- Achieving Financial Freedom as a Creative Entrepreneur & Learning to Invest: A Real Conversation with My Sisters

Jamila Souffrant 0:00

You're listening to the journey to launch podcast, a real conversation with my real sisters, helping them achieve their goals of financial freedom and wealth.

Intro 0:11

Welcome to the journey to launch podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant, as a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom.

Jamila Souffrant 0:39

Hey, hey, hey, journeyers I am so excited for you guys to hear this week's episode. I have on some very, very special guests. And they are actually people I know in real life. They're actually related to me. They are my little sisters. That's right on the podcast today, I bring on some real life journeyer as well, I had to kind of convince them to get on the journeyer train but they're here now. And I really can't wait for you to hear this episode. Now I actually did a video interview with them. So if you want to actually watch me interview, my sister's like we did it in person at a studio, what the f media in New York City and it came out. So great. I love it. So if you want to watch this on YouTube, go ahead and do that too. You can go to youtube.com/journeytolaunch, you will also be able to find the link to watch it wherever you listen to this if you click description, but you'll be able to watch this interview also. Now just a little bit about my sister's a little bit more we get into an interview, but just really quickly. So we're going to be talking to my sister Shaina McGregor and my other sister Imani Manning, they are both entrepreneurs, both creatives both want to basically live the lives they want to live without worrying about money. Does that sound familiar? Maybe it sounds like you and we are going to talk about how they want found their passions how they pivoted because of COVID. Both of them got impacted because of the pandemic, how they're actually going to earn money. So they're at the beginning stages, really of their businesses and they want to earn money. So how is that going to happen? And then we really talked about investing and saving and the things that they learn not just from me, but on their own journey on their own path, how they knew when it was time to get serious about investing. What finally made them both open up that Roth IRA I kept telling them about we're going to talk about all the things so I can't wait for you to hear it.

If you want the episode Show Notes for this episode, go to journeytolaunch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode in the show notes, you'll get the transcribed version of the conversation, the links that we mentioned and so much more. Also, whether you are in OG journeyer are brand new to the podcast. I've created a free jumpstart guide to help you on your financial freedom journey. It includes the top episodes so listen to stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources and so much more. You can go to journeytolaunch.com/jumpstart to get your guide right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Alright, welcome to a very special episode of the journey to launch podcast. I'm going to be interviewing my sisters. And we're going to be talking about all the things I want to dive into their professional and personal development stories, their investing and saving stories and just chat a bit. So I'm really excited to get this started. All right, welcome guys to the podcast. I know Okay, so first of all, don't be nervous.

I'm gonna introduce you guys first to everyone and by the way, we are recording this for the first time that I've done this as a video podcast. So I think that's kind of exciting. So you can also head to my YouTube channel to watch this full video but first I want to introduce my little sister's one being Shaina. Shana McGregor Shaina. Welcome to the journey swatch podcast. Hi. Hi.

Shaina McGregor 4:03

Thank you Jamila. I'm so excited to be here. My name is Shaina Jamila's younger sister, you probably heard her mentioned me a lot of times I work with Journey to launch on the social media and community manager for the money launch club. I'm also a professional dancer, fitness instructor and life coach. I just became an entrepreneur started my own coaching business and Jamila teaching me so much about entrepreneurship. So I'm so excited to work under her this past year.

Jamila Souffrant 4:29

Yes. And you've also been on the podcast before you or have

You I forgot what episode but you did the roundtable discussion for Terry's course to trade and travel course, took it. We'll talk a little bit about that. So we'll link back to that episode. And then Next up, we have my other little sister Imani Imani. Hi, welcome to the journey to launch podcast. Now I will say this is your first time yes doing a podcast interview via being on video. So just tell us a little bit about yourself and Don't be nervous.

Imani Manning 5:01

Oh, my name is Imani Manning. I'm into cooking. So I used to work in the city since the whole Corona stuff. I started doing cooking from home.

Jamila Souffrant 5:14

What Imani does now is cooking. And as you heard before she alluded to Corona virus pandemic really impacted her work because you're working in the kitchen at like, it was like a cheese place. Right that Yeah, Mars cheese, right. And so then you had to pivot once everything shut down and you started to cook, basically, your own food. And now you're working on that. So one of the things I want to both talk to you about because what I thought was really cool about you two and my sisters and then me having journey to launch right like I'm all about living your passion and like really enjoying this journey, this life journey. And of course, we need money to fuel that. So I feel like the both of you are creatives in a way you're entrepreneurs you don't have like typical jobs, and you're still trying to find your way you know, trying to make enough money so that you can live out your dreams. So I'm gonna start with you Shaina. How's it been for you because as a dancer like you went to school, you majored in dance. So you could tell us a bit about that, like part of your dance career, and then your dreams of being a full time dancer, and then kind of like how it's evolved now to what you're doing.

Shaina McGregor 6:13

Yeah, I feel like COVID has been life changing. For me. I was actually thinking about that this morning that, in actuality, COVID changed a lot, but almost for the better. So I grew up dancing, I went to high school for dance. I also major did Fordham University at the Alvin Ailey school as well Ailey/Fordham. And that was about four years of my life. And I had a path that I thought I was going to take, I was going to graduate dance in a professional company, and that was going to be it. And then my senior year of college, things change, I didn't get my dream job. And I was forced to really recon what that means and also jump into more of a freelance dance career, which opened up space for me to do so much more. So it was actually a blessing in disguise. And also, in that time, I found fitness. So fitness is such a great complement to a dance career because we're working our bodies. And the reason we I get into dance is because I love it. And I love to inspire others. And that's the same thing with fitness. So in this last year with COVID, you as you can imagine, there was no dance, right? Everything went virtual, we were dancing on zoom, and if academic zoom classes is one thing, but dancing is a whole nother. And being in New York City, my apartment wasn't that great for dance. So I had to take a step back, I got still, which was the first time that I've ever did less stayed in one place like I couldn't travel also got still in what I was doing, I was so used to being so busy everyday running through the streets of New York, going from dance class to teaching fitness, and everything shifted. So it made me do a lot of introspection. And that's also why I had more time to take Teri's trade and travel course. And also I wasn't teaching zoom fitness classes, either a lot of people transitioned, and immediately started teaching at home. And I realized I actually didn't want to do that. So I took some time for myself. And in that period, I found coaching. And I've always been a person who loves to be there for my friends who loves to give support and give advice. But I realized that I had more to say and more to share within that space. So I found coaching. And now this is what I'm doing alongside dance and fitness.

Jamila Souffrant 8:20

When you say coaching, can you elaborate a bit more?

Shaina McGregor 8:22

Yeah. So when I say coaching, I mean life coaching. And I feel like that in itself is so broad. But in general life coaching is helping people achieve their goals. So it's helping to really bridge that gap between people's inner passions and purpose, with their outer goals to create sustainable results. Because I believe we can all do it on our own. The difference with coaching is that I help you find the answers that are already within you, as opposed to mentorship or consulting. But it's supporting you with that, because so many of us we have these goals, we have these dreams, but it's getting support and how to get there. And also having someone help us with all the fluff with all the things that might take longer, instead of maybe taking 10 years to get through your own stuff. I can help you get there faster.

Jamila Souffrant 9:04

Yeah. So just one more follow up question because when you were talking about dancing, and I just because I didn't understand this, obviously until you were entering into the profession of dancing, that you were talking more about dancing like on in a company, right, I wanted to do as a dancer, right? And then that obviously, because of the pandemic, especially when you graduated, it just didn't work out that way. So I think this idea of pivoting is important and like I think the potential of money in the dance world is really interesting when I hear you talk about like how little dancers get paid even fitness instructors, and then how competitive it is. And so I'm really happy that you found another lane and this lane definitely seems to complement already. Like I what I see running as a thread between what you enjoy is motivation and inspiration. And so you use your body for that a lot with dancing and fitness. But now you're also helping like internally like help people I think it aligns perfectly

Shaina McGregor 9:58

right right and to use my voice and I think for so long I would defend that I'm still a dancer, I'm still a dancer, because it feels like when you add all these extra things, people like, Oh, she's not dancing anymore. When I think I also want to show people that you can do everything, you can do all three. And a lot of times when I say dance, I told you I'm a dancer. And you think one specific thing you might think music video, you might think award show, but there are dancers who are dancing on concert stages. And that's what I wanted to do. But even now for myself, I'm like, I want to do that too. I want to be on award show. So I was

Jamila Souffrant 10:31

like, why don't you like go audition for like the Beyonce Rihanna, like show so that we can get tickets to go. But like, it's so many facets and different lanes for dancing. So I think okay, so we'll get back there. And then I do want to touch into the investing part of yourself, because is that external investing that I talked to both of you about that you finally started to do so so proud of both of you. And then also the internal like, what you did to like, get your life coaching certificate and all the other things, so we'll get to that.

We're gonna head over. Imani. Now you're ready. Yeah. Okay, one of the things I want to say is that I'm really proud of you. Okay. We are all sisters. Right. But like Imani and I have the same father. And Shaina, I have the same mother. So that's kind of like, you know, in for all my Caribbean people who know how that goes. Or just people in general who have like these family dynamics where they you know, we just a lot of us. And one of the things that happened for you is you were raised in Jamaica. And for the most part, that's where you were born and raised. You remember, like me coming to visit Jamaica taught you was the coolest ever still am guys.

And we have a lot of siblings. So she changes my only sibling from my mom. And then my dad we have how many of us are there?

Imani Manning 11:40

seven of us seven altogether.

Jamila Souffrant 11:42

So we have five of us four other sisters and two other brothers. So eight ought to not even know we'd lost count. But we all we love them very much. And so you actually had to like you came to you know, the States after a while. How old were you? Do you remember when you permanently came here to him?

Imani Manning 11:59

Probably like 21.

Jamila Souffrant 12:00

Right? 21 you probably finally came here. And then you had to figure out what you were going to do. But you always had a love for cooking. So I kind of want to go back there. Like how did you figure out what you want to do when you first came here.

Imani Manning 12:12

I mean, I really didn't have a choice. You know, when I got here was a little bit harder than I thought it was gonna be. So I literally had to put on my big boy pants. And step out there. I mean, I had days when I had to write down like the address or the train station on a piece of paper, put it in my pocket, right you store it right. I used to get lost all over the town. I applied for Job Corps from Jamaica. And then within like, two weeks after I came over here, they accepted me when they're doing like the little courses and stuff I said to myself, you know, I just got to do what I got to do. After that. I left with my certificate. And I was like cooking. Yeah, okay, I had to get certified over here in order to like get a job in the kitchen. Yeah, that was your your next year just to get a job. I only did it just to get a job. And in my first job was working at Shake Shack in Grand Central remember that we came for summer? Yeah, that that opened my eyes on. This is not it. So after like a year working at Shake Shack, start like applying for other jobs, other jobs. And then I got hired, working for fathers and like Monsignor is like me growing up in Jamaica, always watching the TV scene of Pope and stuff like that. I was excited.

Jamila Souffrant 13:32

So, so explain what that is. Because for someone who doesn't know, that's like an extension of the Catholic Church.

Imani Manning 13:37

Yes. It's like an extension of the Catholic Church. So anytime the pope will come to New York, we would cook for him, you will cook. Imagine that.

After that, I was like, wow, like, I mean, I probably could go a little bit high. And then from there. We're working on the addition Hotel in Times Square, worked there for like a couple of weeks. And I was like, I don't really like a control cooking environment. I like where you know, you get to be free with whatever you're doing with cooking because I look at cooking like art, like I don't want it to be, you should be just like as you go, like, just let it out. So that I was like, I don't want to work here. Then I start working out more is where it was a bit more creative environment. So I was like, Alright, I'm getting back into it. I'm getting a little bit happier, then boom, Corona hit, and I was like, What do I do? Do I stay home? and not do nothingn and lose hope? I was like, No. I've been wanting to start doing my own cooking stuff. But I didn't have the courage to like step out there. So I was at the point where my back was against the wall like do you like give up or do you try a step down out on a leap of faith. And from there, you know, people start catching on so I was just like, Hey, I'm gonna just put my 100% into this and start cooking from home and it's been going good

Yeah, I've been going good and thanks to either social media Instagram, I've got a lot of people ordering from me that I've never met before in person. So you know, that's good. So yeah, yeah. Encourage me to like, keep going and keep it up. So I guess that's good.

Jamila Souffrant 15:16

No it is good and amazing. First of all, it's amazing. And I always say cuz you called me the times where you like, I don't know if I can say this job you didn't like the hierarchy of the kitchen? Like I didn't know it was that difficult in the backend of kitchens and like you have all these like lines chef, you know, the

Imani Manning 15:31

it's very controlled environment, which I'm not knocking anybody view could do it that's on you before like me. I'm more like a free spirit creative cocoa. Yeah. Like I like to, we're not going my ideas just popping from left to right. So when I have somebody controlling me, is like, I feel like I'm not even doing what I actually like to do. Yeah, so that's why I don't like to work in set control kitchen. I don't like it.

Jamila Souffrant 16:00

Right. Okay. They're also similar. Yeah, you're kind of you're like that too, right?

Shaina McGregor 16:04

Like creative. We want freedom. Yes, like freedom.

Imani Manning 16:07

I feel like the more freedom I get is the better finished product you're gonna get out of me, just give me an error to work and tell me what you're looking for. And I promise you, you're gonna gonna like what you get.

Jamila Souffrant 16:19

And I imagine like, like, a lot of people are like this, even if you don't necessarily identify as a creative even if you work in a job, like, you know, in a in a corporate environment, like people like autonomy, people like being able to control what they do, they don't know and want someone like down their back telling them everything to do, right,

or

Shaina McGregor 16:35

or they're not used to having the freedom. So they think that they like control. But I feel like all parts of us want that freedom and just have you been able to experience that, right?

Jamila Souffrant 16:45

Alright, so here's the thing I find, I find that you too, you have found what you love doing. So you love cooking. And now you're making you know, you're starting your career for yourself in that you love dance, fitness, and now life coaching with all kinds of mend together and you're finding your way that and some people are just looking to find what they love to do, right. The next part of that is making enough money to sustain yourself and to create the lifestyle you want. So I would say like Shaina, you're my fancy like, sister, she likes the hot like, I'm simple like I will, she has to get her nails done. Like she is definitely more high maintenance than even like I was at her age. So you might you wanna talk about how old you are. You want to like, keep that on, that's fine.

Shaina McGregor 17:27

I'm 24 turning 25 in August,

Jamila Souffrant 17:29

right and so even like you, but you were always this way. Like always just like to dress up, you'd always go shopping. And so you have that kind of like, pulling you now like you're like, you know, I'm going here for my birthday. I'm doing this. I'm like, really like, I'll come over to mom's house. And she like orders breakfast. I'm like, you couldn't make the eggs yourself. Like, I don't understand why you spent 20 let's say a week, but you know, she's more of a fancy kind of girl, I get it. That's abundance mindset. She has a right. So I just act to me, I just need you now to earn enough money to sustain yourself kind of the life you want to live in. Right? So it's a balance, it is a balance. And but I find that when you tell me stuff about like the creative world, and even some of the things that you do and how little you get paid. I'm just like, Oh my gosh, one of the things you did start doing this past year was helping with journey to launch, which you will be moving on with soon, right? So she's helping with Journey to Launch now, but she I know she wants to move on. So we're kind of transitioning her out of that. But for you talk about money, talk about earning money and managing it. And then all the things you want to do in the now because you know that I'm on both of you about investing and saving. Yes. And they look at me like, All right. Well, how is it now like earning enough that you want to live? But then how's that changed, like working with me and like kind of taking my advice more about what you want to do?

Shaina McGregor 18:46

Right, You know, as a creative, especially growing up in the dance field. We grew up with this starving artists mentality that you do your art, we don't expect a lot of money. And I feel like even in this past year, I've been having conversations with so many dancers, and we're shifting that perspective. Because why shouldn't we get paid the same? Why shouldn't we get paid more, and raise the floor. And I think that starts with talking to all artists, because once we all demand more than people can not give us less, the reason that they're able to give us less is because we all want an opportunity. So you have someone who will take the work for free. And now like none of us should take that work for free. And even my coach Glo. She says like, use our money so that we're able to create so that we get money so you're able to have the freedom to create and give, right? It's hard to be creative when you're when you're broke. And when she said that it was hard to get like we all grew up like oh, we're all broke. So we all are still able to create and now I'm I stopped telling myself that I'm broke even if I'm broke. I've just changed the narrative. And yes, even though I love to splurge and I love luxury, I still have a discipline like even last week I had four no spendings because I know I have things that I'm working towards, in my relationship with money has definitely changed like in this past year really started listening to you, which I've always been good with money we grew up on like with our mom and our grandmother on saving was huge. So even from I was in high school, I had a ATM in my room, how it saved my entire allowance. And then I would spend it on something later that was meaningful. So I've always had that savings bug, I believe we got my first debit card and from like 16. So I was always able to use money. As soon as I was able to get a credit card, mom got me a credit card. So even from early in college, I've been good with money. But I used to keep it all in my head. And I never, I felt like budgeting felt limiting. Until I realized that it actually just allows me to see where my money's going. So in 2021, I finally did your budget boot camp, I think Jamila's budget boot camp is amazing. I've tried mint, I've tried all these different apps. But I've used the budget boot camp in January 2021. And I feel like I've finally been able to see where my money's going to see how much is coming in. Because I knew it wasn't making a lot. But I also didn't know where it was going. So now I finally have an idea of when they say like give every dollar a job where the money's going, I'm able to actually look forward to maxing out my Roth I max it out for the first time last year. But this year, I know Okay, 500 a month gives me that 6000 if I'm not able to do that every month and have an idea of Okay, well the next month I need to make up. I'm actually saving I opened up my first high yield savings account this year, and investing. So maxing out my Roth I'm doing Teri's trade and travel program. So I feel like money is a tool. And instead of feeling like money's negative money is a tool to give me the life that I desire and it will flow in and out. Granted, I don't want to just spend it all. But there's a balance because I feel like we grew up with such a scarcity mindset of being cheap of holding back of not having a lot even when my nails honestly in this last year, I realized I was like my mom, my sister different than me. They have a different relationship to luxury. Don't feel bad about it. Just because you like to do those things. Right. So why am I feeling bad about it? I should do it now. Should I spend my last 100 on nails? No. But can I put up a line item in my budget for nails? Yes, yes, yes.

Jamila Souffrant 22:10

Good for you, Shaina, I'm proud of you with that too. Because you guys are actually like my sisters, I want you guys to live the lives that you want. And I know the type of life you want. So it's like I want you to live it now. But also set yourself up for a great future. And for those of you who may cuz you said Roth, so Roth IRAs and an after tax investment account and because there you two are both creatives I wanted you to open one as soon as possible. And you're both young. So you're about to turn 25 in August, you are 30 I can't believe this crazy. Cuz we're not getting 401k right? Well, no, not right. And so you have to you have to and this is the thing about people who are entrepreneurs, and creatives are kind of in the freelance world, that you have to set yourself up, you got to do it for yourself, because you don't have a company necessarily doing this for you. So you are that. And so I remember talking to you both, like if you do it now, like you know, you start out early, you know how much money you'll have, even if you just like, you know, forget about my crazy talk about retiring early, you know, like my financial independence, early stuff, which I still think is feasible for both of you. But even just like when you're 65, because I'm now coming to you money, like if you do this and just don't touch it. Imagine having a million dollars at 65 putting this in how that feels, and you still are living your life now and doing what you want. So with that we heard about Shaina, and what she was able to do. And we'll get back to a little bit of that. But I want to talk a little bit about your saving and investing journey, because you did this recently to free yourself to talk about that.

Imani Manning 22:26

And you know, this was a hard one because you've been telling me about this for like, what, five, six years? Yes, I've always been a mental savor, like, I want my I want to see my money, like right here. And I've been realizing over the year, like even coming here. That is not about cash, like you have to do like even with like credit and all of that stuff. I'm recently starting to really understand how important like credit is and like, invest in and stuff like that. So when you told me about the vanguard stuff, I was like,

Jamila Souffrant 24:02

Yeah, I told them to both open up their Roth IRAs with Vanguard. They're not sponsoring this, even though they should, because I thought I asked why. That's why you to invest and I thought it was the easiest thing. Okay, so you opened it up.

Imani Manning 24:13

And I was a little bit like skeptical, but I'm like, all right. Might as well. I mean, I'm putting my money in the bank account anyway. And it's not growing, right. So when you told me about it, I signed up. I wasn't checking it. I don't check it every day. I remember one day, I was just like, Oh, I check it in a minute. And I look was like $1,000 extra money. And I was like, Oh, so this actually works. And I remember I called you I was so excited. So from that day forward, if I've been like more into it, like I've put more time into it, and I'm still trying to figure out how to really go about it because unlike Shaina I have a maxima. I haven't maxed out my account yet, right. So that's the first thing I did it and it's

Shaina McGregor 24:59

Such a good feeling because before, I didn't think it was possible, I'm like Jamila, I don't even make that much you want me to save $6,000?

Imani Manning 25:06

We're not putting half of it in there. I didn't think it was possible. So I'm like,

Jamila Souffrant 25:10

right? Well, that's the thing, too. So I, you opened it up, I remember you call, I even put it on my I remember sharing, I was so happy. I shared it on my journey to launch Instagram stories. Because I was like, finally, because you know, it is scary. Like when you are telling someone like, obviously I talk about this all the time, I encourage people to invest and to try it. But I know, it's easier to say than to actually do it. And I know there like people listening who they know that something they should do, they just have not done it yet. And sometimes everyone does have the luxury of having like me as the actual sister who's like, on them as much, because you came to my house, I remember you, you open it at my house, you came over to my house for that specific reason. And I was like, okay, we're gonna open it together. And the thing about this, because this happened to you, and mom, when I helped you is that when you open up your investment account, so let's say you do open up a Roth IRA, wherever you choose to, you open it up, that's step one. Now you have to fund the money. So even if you fund the money, it typically sits in a money market account, it's not actually invested. So remember, didn't you find out like a couple months later, that money was not invested

Shaina McGregor 26:09

I put the money in the Roth, but I didn't realize I had to invest in it

Jamila Souffrant 26:12

that you have to buy the fact that by the index funds I currently are using. And so with you it was the same thing. I remember that like, oh, there's a multi step right thing. And so you like I mean, we on the gotten the phone, like weeks later, I was like, now the money is funded. Let's you know, we got to invest, invest it. And we did that on the phone. But again, not everyone has that kind of like person to help them. walk them through this. I'm hoping I'm sharing this the hope give someone motivation that they know

Imani Manning 26:36

That was my biggest reason why Yeah, I wanted to invest, but to it was like watching the whole journey to launch. And I'm like, Is this my sister, right? Why am I not taking a cold? No. All right, Jamila, I'm coming over and anybody I had that access. So I was like, I have to double up on that. And it's been good.

Jamila Souffrant 26:57

And you saw like that it works in real time. I does. And I did say like, Listen, they can also swing the other way. Okay, right. But this is not money that you need right now. And you talked about savings. So you know, putting your money in a savings account actually loses money over time, because of inflation, like especially a regular savings account, earning point 01 percent, that's not really earning you much then the next thing that Shaina did, which would be the next thing that we're going to get you to do is open up a high yield account. So the money that you don't need right now, it can earn more money sitting in a savings account, so you're not going to invest it. But it gives you a higher return, even though rates are kind of lower than it was a couple years ago. But back to investing because this is huge, like and because of your ages. I'm just like, Listen, if you just and I know, I know, it's coming from a privileged position when I say just because you just heard like, you guys don't earn that much right now. So when I tell you to put 500 in here, like that's, that's my paycheck sometimes.

And like, okay, you don't have to, you don't have to max it out. Even $100. Let's get that let's get that muscle going. Let's start doing it. Right. What I would love is that you do max it out, just going forward, put it on a pilot, but I understand that sometimes you can't do that. But one of the things I'm struck me about you Imani like what helps you get over that fear, because maybe I can help someone else right now thinking about doing this

Imani Manning 28:10

To be honest. It was something deeper than everything. I mean, from Lost my mom is just been like everything was like, was the worst could happen. And I guess it's been it's been working for me to be honest. Like, every time I've been scared to do something. It's been like, what's the worst that could happen? And it's been paying off. So I guess that's what made me more leap towards doing it. And I'm like, you teach everybody how to save and stuff. And it's going on good. I'm like, why not use that information to help myself? And that's why I went forward with it.

Jamila Souffrant 28:45

Yeah, that's good. That's good. What about you?

Shaina McGregor 28:47

Right? Um, I mean, I have big dreams. I have big goals. And I'll be I'll say right now, I do want to be a millionaire by 30. So I think that takes a different mindset and a shift. And I want creatives to make money. I want to show us that we can follow our passions and be wealthy. And I think that first shift was I wasn't meeting my goals. I have these big dreams, but I wasn't able to max out my Roth. I wasn't saving a lot. And to be honest, I do have favorable conditions where I should be. And since I wasn't I knew that something had to shift.

What do you mean by favorable conditions? Well, I grew up in New York, I do still live at home, and that saves a lot of money, especially with COVID staying at home. So I'm realizing I don't have as many responsibilities. I'm not making a lot. Yes, but I still don't have as many responsibilities. So why am I not making meeting my goals? And that shift was okay, I need to get serious about having a budget. So I could just see where my money's going. Now I'm able to see Oh, I do have money leftover. But before I was I think we have this phrase like oh, I deserve it. So I was going out like every night though. Yeah, treat yourself. I deserve it. We outside which is great. I'm not keeping my money outside. I'm doing it right.

Go to happy hour every day. Then, of course, at the end of the month when you say save 500 towards Roth, I don't have it, as opposed to actually saw Okay, maybe I only have $100 this week for happy hour. The other 400 is go into my Roth because I actually see it in Excel spreadsheet. Also, I love organization looking at numbers. So it works. Yeah.

Imani Manning 30:18

Okay, so what about you? You don't do budget? I know the answer to that. But I do I actually do eventually your office? No, both. It started out late. But I think piggybacking on what you said just now is like, I used to go out a lot. And I found myself like, in the corner the party like, Huh, why am I here? What's the reason I'll be thinking about stuff at home. And then, as you said, like maxing the stuff, I'll be like, man, I didn't have the 500 last month to max it out. But I just paid $60 to get in here. It was like $80, for them to drinks, I got to pay a cab fare home, that was actually the money that I could have invested. And I'm actually seeing more returns on the investment than the pot because I'll be leaving the party with a headache, where it's just like it was it was a matching up. So for every week, I'll cut it down more. So like, from going out every week, it was like, every month, or I'm not going out this month, or start doing other stuff. Like let me just go stand and talk with friends instead of trying to go to a party where I might have to buy clothes, buy a lot of stuff. So yes, started started late. But it's I'm here, okay, I'm here.

Jamila Souffrant 31:33

If

That's the thing, too, like I also I'm older than you guys, I have a lot more responsibilities, and a mortgage and all these things. And I remember though being in my 20s like I remember being your age, but see all my friends like we really didn't have any even though I was earning good money. We all lived like we were in college. So we do a lot of free stuff, and drink really cheap liquor. And so we actually didn't spend that much. And then we were all

Shaina McGregor 31:57

Now it's harder. You see some on social media, you see so much more that that you feel like when you feel like people have money when they might not or people are spending so much money may not have the same goals as you

Jamila Souffrant 32:08

Yeah, the pressure is different. I feel like when I was in high school, college, even my 20s it wasn't this much pressure for so Instagram was not this big. There was not as much social media. So you know, you didn't really see as much what people were doing. And I just feel like it's more pressure for you guys at your ages like to see how other people are living the vacation. Okay, the world's opening back up, right. So a lot of people are going on vacations now. And I feel like people will be spending more money because they're like I missed out last year go harder, right?

Shaina McGregor 32:35

I heard I saw a tweet. He was like you spent more preparing for the vacation and on a vacation. Yeah. So

what I want to talk about now is what are your goals going forward? Right, like what's the next step for you? Let's start with you could be talking about investing like in your ROTH, but you also like you took this program, which was you know, you'd like you took glos program. I know you're in Yeah, now and then this other coaching pro or the certificate program. Yeah, I invested a lot of money this year in personal development in myself, because I did Teri's trade, travel. And in the VIP program, I did my life coaching certification program, which was seven to nine months. So it was a pretty penny. And then I also did Glos coaching program, right? So I but the thing with me is that I am always willing to invest in myself, and I'm not cheap about that, because I know that there will be a return. Granted, I'm gonna take a break now and

Jamila Souffrant 33:20

you got to implement everything right?

Shaina McGregor 33:21

I can't always try to be courses and never implement anything. So I feel like my next steps are growing my business. So growing my coaching business and getting one on one clients, and then I'm releasing my first ebook this summer, and then eventually moving into group coaching because I feel like life coaching is so life changing. And I think if everyone can experience it, and raise our consciousness, raise our self awareness, we will better realize how we show up and choose how we want to show up. And then with that, it's continuing to build my dance and my fitness. So I so excited that the world is opening back up. I cannot wait to dance. I had my first dance performance a couple weeks ago. I have my second one on Juneteenth, depending on when this comes out, and I still desire to dance and tour the world and be on stages. That's what brings me so much joy and my fitness company, the NESS NYC, we teach bounce on a trampoline. So it's very exciting. We are reaching California, Eva Longoria bounces. It's very exciting the

Jamila Souffrant 34:25

this bounce stuff that she does. I mean, she's come just try it. And she had this routine on her Instagram. I was like Shaina, you want me to like break up my back like I don't have as

Shaina McGregor 34:33

everyone says that people do not fall off. So if you go check it out, I feel like everyone should go take a class everyone should have any trampoline in their house. And I did eventually I really want to speak on stages and have more speaking opportunities and build my business I'm reading we should all be millionaires right now by Rachael Rogers. And I'm speaking into existence. I see by 30 it's going to happen and I truly believe for all of us. It's just believing that possible, because so many people, if you just believe and you put out hardware, make that decision and give yourself permission, you will be able to achieve it. But so much of it comes from our own thoughts and what we're believing about ourselves.

Jamila Souffrant 35:12

Yeah, I think you're I see I think you're so far ahead, Shaina, that the fact that you because of me, like journey's launch happened for me, like in my early 30s, in a way, right. I remember we were both starting blog, right. We started a blog. He was like, I don't know, I'm like, you should start that blog. Right. Shana was the one that she started her blog and was like, I should, you know, start my blog. And that's when journey to launch kind of came about as the blog but this was years ago, my early 30s. But I'm just imagining, like, knowing what, you know, if I knew what, like, you know, at 25. Like, I think you can do it, I think you're gonna have everything you want. You just have to focus and continue to do what you do. You know, I do, I believe in you and that way. So I'm excited like to see you like blossom and unfold. And even though you will be moving on journey to launch. And that.

Shaina McGregor 35:56

That was that was a hard decision. But it was a decision that needed to make for myself, because I think we tryto juggle it all. And even in the book, it says as women, we want to make sure everyone is okay. And we often put other people's emotions before our own, especially family. So you being my oldest sister. I mean, I'll admit the first time I came to work for you in college, I quit the first day, she I actually though, I remember.

Jamila Souffrant 36:20

I remember I needed help. She was still in college. I was like, Oh, you have a couple hours. And I like literally, like it was might have been the same day. It was the same day. I'm like, okay, sure, here's what you can do. And she, like, hit me up the same day. She's like, I don't think I could do that.

Shaina McGregor 36:32

Oh, so I think I've been carrying that burden on my shoulders. But since then, and I didn't want to disappoint you. And I had a coach, I think coaches need coaches and I talk to my coach and I realized that it was time that I made this decision and prioritize what I want. And I realized I was like, You care about me as well. I had this fear of disappointing you and leaving you high and dry. And when I told you, you were like, okay, just don't do it tomorrow

Jamila Souffrant 36:57

with more help.

And I also knew like, like, also, I knew that you always wanted to do your, your own thing so visionary, right? In that way. So it's not like I expect you to come work for joining salons and like stay forever. I knew that wasn't gonna happen. So but I am glad that you are choosing to like, you know, branch out and more leaning more and you didn't let scarcity because you know, yeah, I'm giving you like a steady paycheck right now. Yeah, cuz that's going to end, I'm sure.

Shaina McGregor 37:25

But I think also the, I realized that gives me a little bit more energy to be like, Okay, I need to make that backup. Maybe that's even the first step. Because we always think, okay, I want to make a million. Well, the first step is just maybe I just want to make that extra 1000. Again, myself.

Jamila Souffrant 37:39

But here's a this is a really good point. And maybe this view applies, like think about, like, letting go something that seems sure, but it's not fulfilling. It's not it's not, you know, it's not for you, but it's like that easy or not easy money, but it's just money, something that you should do, because you're afraid to let it go because it's consistent, but who knows what's gonna happen once you let it go? Right and have a lot more money, a lot more Fulfillment by doing that. And it's kinda like, essentially kind of what you're doing right? Right. Because it gives you that time I think it was also original Rogers podcast episode when she spoke about that. And about you have to make that decision even before you're ready because it might give you more time it might give you more freedom, more fulfillment. And even though it was taken away money, what is taken away might give you so much more. Yeah. And then the people that you're you are in these situations with like so your work like you're working with me and even if you weren't my sister, like, I just feel like most people if you're afraid to disappoint, like if someone's gonna get mad at you for choosing yourself and your development like men need to be right because that's what you'll need to do for you. Okay, Imani. Now I feel like you know, I think you should have your own restaurant, your own food truck your own like sauces in supermarkets, all the things also tell you what to do. I also say I say, you can like have your own, like cooking show or something, be more on social. But I know that's not necessarily like you have a lot of other things you're trying to build first. So talk about not what like I'm trying to tell you to do but what are the things that you want to do right now.

Imani Manning 39:03

Having a restaurant is definitely in in the plan. But it goes back to like the control cooking environment. I see myself more as a year as I get older. At first I think I wanted that I think I wanted this but now I'm more seem I want to travel like travel cooking like I like to travel and I like to cook, why not mix both of them together and do like like a travel show. So like if I go to Jamaica for vacation I'm I'm here on the beach. I'll cook something right here, but still plateit like a five star meal to show people that like not because it's not a controlled environment. It still could be beautiful and five star quality at the same. I see that for you. Yes. I've been thinking about that hard and

Jamila Souffrant 39:54

Let me tell you something you Eve I know you were like a little nervous like to be on camera, but you did and if we could find it. I'm going to like link You did like a video where you're working at Murray's in the video and someone came in actually to, I think, record you talking Yeah. And you were really good like we're in because you know what because you're talking about food and that has to do with food right? So what are passes? Right so I honestly I see that for you I would say this if I could just give you some advice like that like when you the next time you are in Jamaica or the next to do to just start the camera doesn't have to be the best but start putting that on your social media because I feel like you got to start creating that content like now right and then grow into it and get better at it as you go.

Imani Manning 40:30

I feel like that's really what it is I've been I've had a problem with like procrastinating and again, I'm getting out of that a little bit you know, just by like even watching everybody like even saying I'll watch your your Instagram stuff. And I look at it I'm like for like her age, I like the whole just everything so I take a little page no matter how old I get, I take a page out of your book your book just to make my craft a little bit better but I'm I'm working like a lot of vision in my head. And then two weeks following up with like cooking is my happy place like it's where I let it all go some like if I could be here happy and make some money at the same time. I don't see nothing wrong with that. So I'm getting to the point where I think that that might be the travel cooking. First it was a food truck. But I think now more lean into more like travel cooking like just being different places and cooking different dishes like you know

Jamila Souffrant 41:34

Yeah, and like you said the world is opening back up a bit and they have a bunch I know Netflix has a couple of like series now just like on traveling was high on the hog is one was he's not he's going around to different right? Who knows? No one was like, what's the what's the description I don't know,

Shaina McGregor 41:49

is about linking foods like the diaspora.

Jamila Souffrant 41:52

And there's another one too, I forgot. Anyway, but I just feel like there's more demand for that content. Now. You are like an actual always say you're an actual Jamaican even I'm Jamaican, because I was born there. But you actually don't think I am, you know, I am. But you literally like you really know, like the culture and the foods. And then you also can combine different. And

Imani Manning 42:10

that's what I like to like, I feel like for most typical Jamaican chef, I don't know, like somebody seen me like, they'd be like, Oh, she just know how to cook like Jamaican food. I try to like, open it up a little more. So people could like expect more from like Jamaican chefs. Or like, I could give you a nice Italian meal. I'll give you one nice Mexican food, which you will not feed in like, Oh, that's the Mexican? No, it's a Jamaican person, just like, it's a good way of learning other people culture like you know, respecting it a little bit more. So I think that's the that's the angle that I would like to take for more cooking like, more freelance open, just just very free of hearts.

Shaina McGregor 42:52

I don't feel that way about cooking food. So it's really great.

Jamila Souffrant 42:55

you. I mean,

You need to cook more for me. That's why I'm saying like, she'll come over. I'm like, Okay, well, we cook it and she was like, I'm off. I'm like, What do you mean? Like, like you. But now you're I think that you also can accomplish all the things like literally you guys, the world is your oyster like you can accomplish you think these things I know that about your skills and just your passion, both of you about what you're talking about. And so it's really just about executing and believing in yourself. Well, not at work, and yeah, okay, so I just want to now just, you know, shoot the breeze before we like end this. A couple questions. What is one thing you would tell a creative or just someone listening who's maybe has this talent, or this thing they want to get into, they're afraid about it not really earning a lot of money, or they just don't know how to start, and even when it comes to investing, but they are scared to like, take that step. What would you tell that person? What would be your advice for them? Shaina you can go first,

Shaina McGregor 43:47

I think is really acknowledging your fear. So acknowledge the thoughts that you are having acknowledge your feelings, and then work through them and reframe it. Because so often I think we try to suppress the fear but to like it doesn't exist. So we can be afraid and do it anyway. But you really want to see, where's that coming from? How true it that is not possible? Do you actually have a vision? So I love doing visioning exercises for my clients. Just close your eyes. And truly imagine what do you want, without any limits and see what comes to you write it down? Write it down on paper. And if you're not sure, write out your strengths, write out your gifts and just take one step. I think we try to take too many steps and it feels overwhelming. Take one step towards that goal. And then the next day you put your next foot in front of the other. So just keep taking one little baby step. That will be my advice.

Jamila Souffrant 44:38

All right. All right, what about you Imani.

Imani Manning 44:40

My advice definitely would be just listen to the people that's actually which you the people that's not with you. It doesn't matter because it tend to be a distraction. And trust me, people tend to speak on stuff that they really don't know about and it will really stop you like and some people Might be speaking from the fear, you know, like, Oh, no, don't do that. Because when I did it, it didn't work that might not be my journey. So it's just more like, Don't sit on no talent that you got, even if you scared, you just got to just be like me, what's the worst to happen? What's the worst, the worst gonna happen you have to like, do you because at the end of the day people have, they're gonna talk, whether it's good or bad so and when you blow up, they're gonna be the same on talking, sending messages in your inbox, oh, congrats, I know you could do it. So at the end of the day, whatever make you happy. And whatever you're comfortable with, just do it. That's it just do

Shaina McGregor 45:41

Really has to come from within and not getting the validation for years, not so true. The energy that surround you influences the energy that flows through you. So really, make sure about the people who surround you or people who want to boost you up. Because a lot of it comes from fear, talking from their own fears, and they didn't make it so

Imani Manning 46:00

they're nervous about being nervous about you. And then that will stop you from even trying when you're little try could just write low write up

Jamila Souffrant 46:08

and think about all the being trailblazers, like, you know, a lot of times you're not actually these people are just people in your immediate life that you may love to have not done these things. You're like first person to try to attempt this field in these fashions. You the first one maybe that you know that's doing it in the way you're doing me like, so you have to trailblaze and kind of be the example for people most times and not worried, like you said about their fears impacting you know,

Shaina McGregor 46:33

for sure. I feel like a lot of times we even when we tell our own families, you're not grandmother, I try to tell her what we do. And she's like, what, yeah, so a lot of times these new careers, the older generations, they have no idea what they are, they didn't exist for them. And I think our generation, we're able to follow our passions, whereas the previous generation was all about survival. So realizing that difference and knowing that we are so lucky and blessed to be able to do it, so then do it. You know, right, right.

Jamila Souffrant 46:58

And okay, the other thing I wanted to talk a little bit about so you guys are like my real life sister so you know me in real life and then you know me as like ms journey to launch, blah, blah. What is and we'll get answer from both of you is like one thing you think people will be surprised to know about how I really am and it's okay. You can really be honest. You should be honest. I won't get mad.

Imani Manning 47:21

Yeah, she is really fun. She's not as should I say the word?

Jamila Souffrant 47:27

What? You know, you can say that

Imani Manning 47:29

she's not as uptight as she look. She is really fun. Like no frills. She's fun. You have a good time. Uh huh. Oh, thanks, sister.

Jamila Souffrant 47:37

What about you? It's okay. Are you good?

Shaina McGregor 47:42

You're so to Jamila is Yeah, she's fun.

Even like we're 13 years apart, which is wild.

Jamila Souffrant 47:46

I feel like I'm older than both of us. So I feel like I actually like more like

Imani Manning 47:50

and she's a great dancer like, y'all need to check her out.

Jamila Souffrant 47:58

she talking about Jamaican that dance moves. Okay, Shaina

Shaina McGregor 48:03

I think so. If you were really I don't know. I mean, you're super you actually super chill about your money. You save a lot, but you're not I feel like maybe you just come so natural. But you I don't feel you as like a uptight budgeter like you're actually super chill about your finances. And I think you would think like, you know, you've run a finance platform and like may not know that but you're actually really chill about it.

Jamila Souffrant 48:27

It's funny because I was teaching something in money launch club about budgeting and then the people in the group like they were talking about when they see their budget because I use wine app and it gets that's the budgeting app and it will get read if you're not budgeting properly and I'm like oh my stuff is always red because I'm always budgeting ahead and they're like, Oh my god, like they were like clutching my pearls cuz they were like what? So yes, I'm definitely we're just relaxed about like I'm not really into the coupon if I see something that I want and Trader Joe's is that when I go to Trader Joe's right you go with vibe, go with the vibes it's kind of like how and that's how I want to live my life kind of like in more flow. So thank you for sharing that now. Tell everyone where they can find you guys. So what I want to is like everyone to cheer you on. So maybe there needs to be some creatives listening watching and they want to follow your journey you want to be inspired by you. Maybe they want to you know get in contact so where can people find you on each Instagram if you have a website all that

Alright, so you can find me on Instagram at Shaina dot McGregor sh AI n a.mc GREGOr , my website is launching by the end of June. So depending on when this comes out, it might be out I'll be Shainamcgregor.com. And yeah, Instagram is where I live the most. You can find me dancing, bouncing on the trampoline, and showing up as a life coach. If you're interested in that you can definitely follow me there.

Imani Manning 49:46

And you could follow me on Instagram at yaard chef and

Jamila Souffrant 49:51

you have to spell your chef because

Imani Manning 49:54

45 so that's y a a D underscore 45 See I got a little card too so if you

Jamila Souffrant 50:02

got thatYA A R D ch e f underscore 45 right now see me not as like a marketer I'm like I we need to get you another easier name but don't you know I don't want to see like the yard is

Imani Manning 50:16

some more keeping it back to like that I like that.

Jamila Souffrant 50:20

Yeah, but I want you to remember that on your Instagram because when someone just asked you know i did i don't know what happened

Imani Manning 50:27

so again it's yaad chef underscore 45 why ad ch e f underscore 45

Jamila Souffrant 50:35

you know one thing I thought you just were both gonna say you didn't but I'll call myself out that I do go into big sister mode a bit with you guys you guys didn't say that but just like I just said you know like, next time you gotta remember your Instagram like I kind of came in

Imani Manning 50:51

and like this you saw the text I don't have time for it now to

Shaina McGregor 50:57

Jamila is very blunt and abrasive.

Jamila Souffrant 51:00

Okay, that's okay, that's okay, that's okay but that I was surprised that neither one of you said that just now I want to actually share something because I do feel like you know because you are like family and you guys know me so you typically know I'm always coming from a good place but I typically give it to you more real than I give most other people like I will just tell you like

Imani Manning 51:20

what I feel like when when people look at you that's like something that says you look like somebody that just tells you that it is right

Jamila Souffrant 51:28

I think people kind of assume I'm super like nice and I am nice but I'm also I do have a more a short patience level but I'm really glad so here's the thing I am so proud of the both of you I can't wait to see what the both of you do. Thank you for doing this with me. I know I just like was like just come to a video and just do a podcast, but um I just I love this I love that I'm able to share like this with you that I can watch you guys like grow and you know maybe we can do like a follow up in a couple years or even before that when you hit some milestones that

Shaina McGregor 52:04

maybe the end of 2021

Imani Manning 52:07

we're gonna be celebrating with ShainaTurn a millionaire

Jamila Souffrant 52:09

Where are you taking us?

Shaina McGregor 52:11

wherever y'all want to go?

Imani Manning 52:14

Remember she said that Yeah, right.

Jamila Souffrant 52:17

Exactly. Exactly. All right. Thank you so much everyone for tuning in to this episode of the podcast it was different but follow us on on at journey to launch at Shaina dot McGregor at yaad chef underscore 45 yard has two A's, right like Jamaican yard. Yeah. And, and Tiger so if you liked this interview, if you got something from it, I always say like, take a screenshot, share your takeaway tag us let me know so we can reshare it and I can know that you were tuning in.

Alright. Okay, I really hope you enjoyed listening to that episode. Again, if you want to watch this, like watch like the real video in person interview with them. Go to my YouTube channel, go to youtube.com/journey to launch or click the description wherever you're listening to this. And you'll get to watch us talk this out in real time. I mean, I really had so much fun talking to them. And you know, because they're my sisters like I talked to them ongoing basis. So it was definitely more comfortable. And doing it in person was really cool. I definitely want to do more in person interviews just like this. So stay tuned for more of that. And then did you catch how I asked them both a what something that the journeyers who listened to me wouldn't know about me and what they said I thought they were actually gonna be a little like not I want to say mean but I thought they were gonna say that I was mean because I can be a little I could be a little blunt with them. You know how that goes. I got the big sister vibes and energy going when it comes to them. So anyway, I really hope you enjoyed this. So here's the thing if you enjoyed this episode at journey to launch and then at them so let us know what you thought of them. What did you connect with? What resonated with you? So I'm at journey to launch on Instagram. Shaina is at Shaina dot McGregor on Instagram. And then my other sister Imani. She is at yd y a de chef ch f 45 on Instagram, so let us know what you thought of it. Alright.

Find me new favorite way to start today is to listen to axios today. It's a news podcast that's shorter but not shallower. In just 10 minutes I get smart takes on the biggest stories. It's not a run through the headlines. It's the important stories you won't get to hear anywhere else. Everything from politics to space to race and justice and host nyla boo is the warm voice you'll want to hear each day she's joined by axios award winning journalist to give you the scoops and analysis to power your day. Listen to axios Today, a podcast from axios with Pushkin industries wherever you get your podcast and stick around at the end of today's episode for a preview of axios today

Axios Clip 55:05

Hi, I'm nyla Buddha host of axios. Today, it's a daily podcast that gives you the latest hoops and analysis to power your day. You're about to hear a segment from our daily episode. You can hear more by listening to axios. Today, every weekday morning on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. When the pandemic took hold the venture capital industry brace itself for the worst and many feared COVID could destroy startups across the country. But VC has thrived to the tune of more than $130 billion reports. axios has technology and business reporter kiya khokhlachev. Ah, hey, kiya. Hey. So why has venture capital done so well, one, a lot of the investors already had money ready to invest. And then they also kind of got really quickly used to zoom investing, you know, we all shifted to doing things over video chat over zoom. And so they did too. You also had a lot of entrepreneurs who got new ideas during the pandemic. So they started companies and startups that would make life easier, or coming up with services and products for life after the pandemic subsides. But now we want to do things differently. And so they're going to be providing us with services and goods for them.

Why does this matter for the economy or for the rest of us?

Well, fundamentally, startups are small businesses, right? They're building products and services that consumers spend money on, they're employing people. So in a way, we should care about them in the same way that we care about small businesses more broadly. But it's also you know, the technology industry kind of leads the way a lot as far as how we do things down the line, right? They're innovating. Technology is constantly evolving. 10 years ago, we didn't know that we could just use our phone and get a car to show up and take you to the restaurant. But startups did that. axios is kiya khokhlachev Ah, thanks kiya. Thank you.

Jamila Souffrant 57:03

Don't forget you can get the episode Show Notes for this episode by going to journey to launch. com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this and you can still grab your jumpstart guide for free to help you on your journey to financial freedom by going to journey to launch com/jumpstart.

If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple podcasts, rate review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two follow me on my social media accounts. I'm at journey to launch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And I love love love interacting with journeyers. They're three support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here. So show them some love for supporting your girl for And last but not least, share this episode this podcast with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of journey to launch. Alright, that's it. Until next week, keep on journeying journeyers